55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Corik]

TSA_383 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hey look at that Aequitas has been enabled, currently in between Tuchunka and the Cerberus take over of the citadel. (am I the only one who think it sounds like a Spanish dish?)

Just the name of Aequitas makes me wonder what further purpose it has...

æquitas is the nominative form of the Latin æquitatem, meaning justice,
equality, conformity, symmetry, or fairness, and is the source of the
modern word "equity". In ancient Rome, it could refer to either the
legal concept of equity, or fairness between individuals.

May be nothing, might be worth looking at.

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

He already talked to sovereign. And Harbinger also talked to him.

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hey look at that Aequitas has been enabled, currently in between Tuchunka and the Cerberus take over of the citadel. (am I the only one who think it sounds like a Spanish dish?)

Just the name of Aequitas makes me wonder what further purpose it has...

æquitas is the nominative form of the Latin æquitatem, meaning justice,
equality, conformity, symmetry, or fairness, and is the source of the
modern word "equity". In ancient Rome, it could refer to either the
legal concept of equity, or fairness between individuals.

May be nothing, might be worth looking at.

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

Reapers are known to have telepathic abilities, though the nature and extent of those abilities is unknown. Moreover, we have no way of knowing how closely this sort of "mental communication" is tied to indoctrination.

It's possible that in the span of a few seconds, Shepard had that entire conversation with the Rannoch destroyer telepathically, in his head. It would explain why your teammates are never shown during the scene, nor do they have anything to say about it afterwards. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

TSA_383 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hey look at that Aequitas has been enabled, currently in between Tuchunka and the Cerberus take over of the citadel. (am I the only one who think it sounds like a Spanish dish?)

Just the name of Aequitas makes me wonder what further purpose it has...

æquitas is the nominative form of the Latin æquitatem, meaning justice,
equality, conformity, symmetry, or fairness, and is the source of the
modern word "equity". In ancient Rome, it could refer to either the
legal concept of equity, or fairness between individuals.

May be nothing, might be worth looking at.

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

*Forget my comment, checked scene again.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 26 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[HellishFiend]

Corik wrote...


He already talked to sovereign. And Harbinger also talked to him.

Yes, but the Sovereign conversation was done through an interface, not direct communication. The nature of Harbinger's communication with Shepard is unknown. 

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

Corik wrote...


He already talked to sovereign. And Harbinger also talked to him.

Yes, but the Sovereign conversation was done through an interface, not direct communication. The nature of Harbinger's communication with Shepard is unknown. 

Obviously, Reaper 'communication' is not bound by distance: "Struggle if you wish, your mind will be mine". Harbinger was nowhere near Object Rho. But the artifact might've been a hub for it.
Also, Harbinger was obviously able to cummunicate on Horizon: "Assuming direct control". Either there was something on Horizon or it was through the Collectors.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 26 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[Rosewind]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Corik wrote...


He already talked to sovereign. And Harbinger also talked to him.

Yes, but the Sovereign conversation was done through an interface, not direct communication. The nature of Harbinger's communication with Shepard is unknown. 

Obviously, Reaper 'communication' is not bound by distance: "Struggle if you wish, your mind will be mine". Harbinger was nowhere near Object Rho. But the artifact might've been a hub for it.
Also, Harbinger was obviously able to cummunicate on Horizon: "Assuming direct control". Either there was something on Horizon or it was through the Collectors.

Or the collectors.... He was in deep space at that time.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Just gonna repost this as it seems it was lost at the bottom of last page.

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

does Parabolee handle the question of why there is a critical mission failure if you don't make a choice fast enough? Because that's the new ****** in our armor they're trying to pierce.

The way I interpret that is this way:

Its the same reasoning you can use as to why Marauder shields and the husk trio can kill shepard, or why TIM can kill Shepard. Its her dream, but even in a dream your mind makes up the rules and physics that your dream will follow based on actual experiences and information from the real world.

Shepard knows the crucible and citadel are sitting out there in the open space amidst a full scale reaper attack. It's perfectly reasonable for her to assume that the reapers will turn around and open fire on the crucible if enough time is wasted.

Does that help?

To chime in here, we have to assume that even if Shepard is halucinating time is not standing stil around him/her. He/she would still be in war zone and if it takes to long any number of events could result in Shepards death or other events that leave victory impossible.

Hell it could be quite literally the Crucible beeing destroyed, I mean it moves in just before you make a run for the ebam aka before theorized Indoctriantion point so all the while Shepard is dreaming the fleet ahs to protect the Crucible...

Wait a minute...could someone check if you have more time to make a decision at high EMS as opposed to low EMS? That could be pretty interesting to know as a low EMS fleet would logically be uanble to defend the Crucible for as long as a high EMS one.

As for death within the dream as from Husks, Marauder Shields or TIM I think represents Shepards will failing to the direct onslaught of Indoctrination. His mind simply gets outright broken as seems to be the purpose of the entire TIm scene within IT.

It is not until he resist that the Reapers realize they cannot break him conventionnaly and try to trick him.

Funny how that under this assumption the two ending choices that end in Shepards death with 100% certianty, Control and Synthesis, are the ones we asociate with indotrination.

So to sum it up shortly. Crucible Destroyed means Shepard is out of time, has stayed down for to long and the battle is lost, death of Shepard means his will fell and he succumbed to indoctrination, at least that is my view.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 26 mai 2012 - 06:56 .

[StElmo]

Has anyone considered that the citadel beam itself is a giant indoctrination device? Just throwing it out there.

[BatmanTurian]

TSA_383 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hey look at that Aequitas has been enabled, currently in between Tuchunka and the Cerberus take over of the citadel. (am I the only one who think it sounds like a Spanish dish?)

Just the name of Aequitas makes me wonder what further purpose it has...

æquitas is the nominative form of the Latin æquitatem, meaning justice,
equality, conformity, symmetry, or fairness, and is the source of the
modern word "equity". In ancient Rome, it could refer to either the
legal concept of equity, or fairness between individuals.

May be nothing, might be worth looking at.

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

Maybe Aequitas is where that 37 million year old mass accelerator weapon is that knocked out the derelict reaper and caused the unnatural gash on Klendagon.

[Corik]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Just gonna repost this as it seems it was lost at the bottom of last page.

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

does Parabolee handle the question of why there is a critical mission failure if you don't make a choice fast enough? Because that's the new ****** in our armor they're trying to pierce.

The way I interpret that is this way:

Its the same reasoning you can use as to why Marauder shields and the husk trio can kill shepard, or why TIM can kill Shepard. Its her dream, but even in a dream your mind makes up the rules and physics that your dream will follow based on actual experiences and information from the real world.

Shepard knows the crucible and citadel are sitting out there in the open space amidst a full scale reaper attack. It's perfectly reasonable for her to assume that the reapers will turn around and open fire on the crucible if enough time is wasted.

Does that help?

To chime in here, we have to assume that even if Shepard is halucinating time is not standing stil around him/her. He/she would still be in war zone and if it takes to long any number of events could result in Shepards death or other events that leave victory impossible.

Hell it could be quite literally the Crucible beeing destroyed, I mean it moves in just before you make a run for the ebam aka before theorized Indoctriantion point so all the while Shepard is dreaming the fleet ahs to protect the Crucible...

Wait a minute...could someone check if you have more time to make a decision at high EMS as opposed to low EMS? That could be pretty interesting to know as a low EMS fleet would logically be uanble to defend the Crucible for as long as a high EMS one.

As for death within the dream as from Husks, Marauder Shields or TIM I think represents Shepards will failing to the direct onslaught of Indoctrination. His mind simply gets outright broken as seems to be the purpose of the entire TIm scene within IT.

It is not until he resist that the Reapers realize they cannot break him conventionnaly and try to trick him.

Funny how that under this assumption the two ending choices that end in Shepards death with 100% certianty, Control and Synthesis, are the ones we asociate with indotrination.

So to sum it up shortly. Crucible Destroyed means Shepard is out of time, has stayed down for to long and the battle is lost, death of Shepard means his will fell and he succumbed to indoctrination, at least that is my view.

It is also funny how the child deliberately lies, because (if I'm not wrong) he says Control will allow Shepard to live, while destruction will kill him, when Destruction is the only possible way Shepard could live.

[BatmanTurian]

TSA_383 wrote...

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

Shepard could understand Harbinger and Sovereign, and so could his squadmates, so it has precedence.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 26 mai 2012 - 07:03 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BatmanTurian wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hey look at that Aequitas has been enabled, currently in between Tuchunka and the Cerberus take over of the citadel. (am I the only one who think it sounds like a Spanish dish?)

Just the name of Aequitas makes me wonder what further purpose it has...

æquitas is the nominative form of the Latin æquitatem, meaning justice,
equality, conformity, symmetry, or fairness, and is the source of the
modern word "equity". In ancient Rome, it could refer to either the
legal concept of equity, or fairness between individuals.

May be nothing, might be worth looking at.

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

Maybe Aequitas is where that 37 million year old mass accelerator weapon is that knocked out the derelict reaper and caused the unnatural gash on Klendagon.

Cerberus would know, they supposedly found the weapon, but it was defunct.

[BatmanTurian]

Corik wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Just gonna repost this as it seems it was lost at the bottom of last page.

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

does Parabolee handle the question of why there is a critical mission failure if you don't make a choice fast enough? Because that's the new ****** in our armor they're trying to pierce.

The way I interpret that is this way:

Its the same reasoning you can use as to why Marauder shields and the husk trio can kill shepard, or why TIM can kill Shepard. Its her dream, but even in a dream your mind makes up the rules and physics that your dream will follow based on actual experiences and information from the real world.

Shepard knows the crucible and citadel are sitting out there in the open space amidst a full scale reaper attack. It's perfectly reasonable for her to assume that the reapers will turn around and open fire on the crucible if enough time is wasted.

Does that help?

To chime in here, we have to assume that even if Shepard is halucinating time is not standing stil around him/her. He/she would still be in war zone and if it takes to long any number of events could result in Shepards death or other events that leave victory impossible.

Hell it could be quite literally the Crucible beeing destroyed, I mean it moves in just before you make a run for the ebam aka before theorized Indoctriantion point so all the while Shepard is dreaming the fleet ahs to protect the Crucible...

Wait a minute...could someone check if you have more time to make a decision at high EMS as opposed to low EMS? That could be pretty interesting to know as a low EMS fleet would logically be uanble to defend the Crucible for as long as a high EMS one.

As for death within the dream as from Husks, Marauder Shields or TIM I think represents Shepards will failing to the direct onslaught of Indoctrination. His mind simply gets outright broken as seems to be the purpose of the entire TIm scene within IT.

It is not until he resist that the Reapers realize they cannot break him conventionnaly and try to trick him.

Funny how that under this assumption the two ending choices that end in Shepards death with 100% certianty, Control and Synthesis, are the ones we asociate with indotrination.

So to sum it up shortly. Crucible Destroyed means Shepard is out of time, has stayed down for to long and the battle is lost, death of Shepard means his will fell and he succumbed to indoctrination, at least that is my view.

It is also funny how the child deliberately lies, because (if I'm not wrong) he says Control will allow Shepard to live, while destruction will kill him, when Destruction is the only possible way Shepard could live.

no it doesn't say he will live. It says he will lose everything he has or is or something to that effect.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Corik wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Just gonna repost this as it seems it was lost at the bottom of last page.

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

does Parabolee handle the question of why there is a critical mission failure if you don't make a choice fast enough? Because that's the new ****** in our armor they're trying to pierce.

The way I interpret that is this way:

Its the same reasoning you can use as to why Marauder shields and the husk trio can kill shepard, or why TIM can kill Shepard. Its her dream, but even in a dream your mind makes up the rules and physics that your dream will follow based on actual experiences and information from the real world.

Shepard knows the crucible and citadel are sitting out there in the open space amidst a full scale reaper attack. It's perfectly reasonable for her to assume that the reapers will turn around and open fire on the crucible if enough time is wasted.

Does that help?

To chime in here, we have to assume that even if Shepard is halucinating time is not standing stil around him/her. He/she would still be in war zone and if it takes to long any number of events could result in Shepards death or other events that leave victory impossible.

Hell it could be quite literally the Crucible beeing destroyed, I mean it moves in just before you make a run for the ebam aka before theorized Indoctriantion point so all the while Shepard is dreaming the fleet ahs to protect the Crucible...

Wait a minute...could someone check if you have more time to make a decision at high EMS as opposed to low EMS? That could be pretty interesting to know as a low EMS fleet would logically be uanble to defend the Crucible for as long as a high EMS one.

As for death within the dream as from Husks, Marauder Shields or TIM I think represents Shepards will failing to the direct onslaught of Indoctrination. His mind simply gets outright broken as seems to be the purpose of the entire TIm scene within IT.

It is not until he resist that the Reapers realize they cannot break him conventionnaly and try to trick him.

Funny how that under this assumption the two ending choices that end in Shepards death with 100% certianty, Control and Synthesis, are the ones we asociate with indotrination.

So to sum it up shortly. Crucible Destroyed means Shepard is out of time, has stayed down for to long and the battle is lost, death of Shepard means his will fell and he succumbed to indoctrination, at least that is my view.

It is also funny how the child deliberately lies, because (if I'm not wrong) he says Control will allow Shepard to live, while destruction will kill him, when Destruction is the only possible way Shepard could live.

Dont know about control, dont think he says Shepard will live, but he dfeinetly implies Shepard will die in Destroy.

"Even you are part synthetic" is the exact quote.

[RaidShock]

Corik wrote...
It is also funny how the child deliberately lies, because (if I'm not wrong) he says Control will allow Shepard to live, while destruction will kill him, when Destruction is the only possible way Shepard could live.

Technically he just says, "Even you are partly synthetic." We don't know the exact implications of this statement. Obviously he is implying that Shepard's synthetic parts will be destroyed by choosing destroy, but that does not necessarily mean he will die.

[BatmanTurian]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hey look at that Aequitas has been enabled, currently in between Tuchunka and the Cerberus take over of the citadel. (am I the only one who think it sounds like a Spanish dish?)

Just the name of Aequitas makes me wonder what further purpose it has...

æquitas is the nominative form of the Latin æquitatem, meaning justice,
equality, conformity, symmetry, or fairness, and is the source of the
modern word "equity". In ancient Rome, it could refer to either the
legal concept of equity, or fairness between individuals.

May be nothing, might be worth looking at.

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

Maybe Aequitas is where that 37 million year old mass accelerator weapon is that knocked out the derelict reaper and caused the unnatural gash on Klendagon.

Cerberus would know, they supposedly found the weapon, but it was defunct.

Maybe that's the real super-weapon is what I'm saying and what I was discussing yesterday. Maybe we've always been looking in the wrong place when we built the Crucible, when here was a weapon that took out a Reaper in one shot. They should be able to reverse engineer it, right?

[StElmo]

Soooo... Citadel, is that an indoctrination device when that beam was set up?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

RaidShock wrote...

Corik wrote...
It is also funny how the child deliberately lies, because (if I'm not wrong) he says Control will allow Shepard to live, while destruction will kill him, when Destruction is the only possible way Shepard could live.

Technically he just says, "Even you are partly synthetic." We don't know the exact implications of this statement. Obviously he is implying that Shepard's synthetic parts will be destroyed by choosing destroy, but that does not necessarily mean he will die.

No, but considering how much of Shepard is synthetic it is a good guess losing it would be fatal.

I mean we see part of how much synethtic goes into rebuilding him in ME2´s opening and hear a bit more in ME3. Not even mentioning that Shepards own physical abilities clearly show he is no longer completely human. To give two examples, Shepard can use the Claymore Shotgun which in ME2 is described as having a recoil which would break the arm of a human and Shepard also pust the smack down on the Shadow broker, a Yagh, with his bare hands.

[estebanus]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...



Dont know about control, dont think he says Shepard will live, but he dfeinetly implies Shepard will die in Destroy.

"Even you are part synthetic" is the exact quote.

Reaperbieber says that Shepard will die in control.

Quote: "You will die. You will control us, but you will lose everything you have."

But... How can Shepard control something when s/he is dead?

Answer: S/he can't!

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Hey look at that Aequitas has been enabled, currently in between Tuchunka and the Cerberus take over of the citadel. (am I the only one who think it sounds like a Spanish dish?)

Just the name of Aequitas makes me wonder what further purpose it has...

æquitas is the nominative form of the Latin æquitatem, meaning justice,
equality, conformity, symmetry, or fairness, and is the source of the
modern word "equity". In ancient Rome, it could refer to either the
legal concept of equity, or fairness between individuals.

May be nothing, might be worth looking at.

By the by, does anyone have any non-indoctrination way that Shepard could directly understand the Rannoch reaper?

Maybe Aequitas is where that 37 million year old mass accelerator weapon is that knocked out the derelict reaper and caused the unnatural gash on Klendagon.

Cerberus would know, they supposedly found the weapon, but it was defunct.

Maybe that's the real super-weapon is what I'm saying and what I was discussing yesterday. Maybe we've always been looking in the wrong place when we built the Crucible, when here was a weapon that took out a Reaper in one shot. They should be able to reverse engineer it, right?

Depends on the level of "defunct" it is. If it is basicly a few mechanical parts and a imprint in the landscape of some kind showing it was once a cannon there is not much to reverse engineer.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

StElmo wrote...

Soooo... Citadel, is that an indoctrination device when that beam was set up?

Been discussed that the Citadel emits low level Indoctrination in all its forms, pacifying those aboard. It is hinted by Squadmates finding teh Citadel a little to distanced, to perfect.

But which beam do you refer to, the beam leading to the Citadel or the Crucible / Citadel connection beam?

[Corik]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

No, but considering how much of Shepard is synthetic it is a good guess losing it would be fatal.

I mean we see part of how much synethtic goes into rebuilding him in ME2´s opening and hear a bit more in ME3. Not even mentioning that Shepards own physical abilities clearly show he is no longer completely human. To give two examples, Shepard can use the Claymore Shotgun which in ME2 is described as having a recoil which would break the arm of a human and Shepard also pust the smack down on the Shadow broker, a Yagh, with his bare hands.

Yeah, that's why I think the child deliberately lies. I'm pretty sure even the geth won't be destroyed. Why some synthetics will be destroyed and others not? A ship is also synthetic. The weapons of the soldiers in London are also synthetic.

The child explaining destruction option didn't made any sense even the first time I saw it.

[estebanus]

God, I have to tell you, Davishepard is a total idiot. His responses are weak, his arguments built up poorly, and his logic reasoning is about the same as Göring trying to explain to the allied forces why it was justified to kill over 3 million jews.

[StElmo]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Soooo... Citadel, is that an indoctrination device when that beam was set up?

Been discussed that the Citadel emits low level Indoctrination in all its forms, pacifying those aboard. It is hinted by Squadmates finding teh Citadel a little to distanced, to perfect.

But which beam do you refer to, the beam leading to the Citadel or the Crucible / Citadel connection beam?

Interesting! also citadel plants are the "dream" plants aren't they?

I meant the transport beam up to the citadel.

[David7204]

There's also that conversation with EDI when she tells Shepard specifically that s/he is fully organic.