55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Vahilor]

I hope they will go with IDT (so they don't wanna change the ending) but somhow I do not really believe they planed it all away.. probably in some hints.. but I don't think they really planned it for the endings in the end.

@Erield

And yes if the really don't go with IDT the whole crucible thing is pretty poor and feels like somthing they added cause they had no better idea how to kill the Reapers.

I still think the crucible is some Reaper trap to make Shep to do their "biddings"...

[Ulous]

ohupthis wrote...


Good evening, the entire time we were dealing with Harbinger(in ME2), he explicitly stated, "I want Shepard ALIVE!"

He was wanted in one way or another by Harbinger either alive or with his body preserved, in frustration Harbinger would simply threaten to tear him apart, the problem is that much of this I believe was with reference to their original idea for the dark matter ending, they needed Shepard to complete their goal.

[DJBare]

ohupthis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx

"What we’re doing with Mass Effect 3 that’s a little bit different than what we’ve done before is exploring the idea of getting the player to understand and feel what Commander Shepard is experiencing versus just reacting to other characters."

So by telling the player that he was indeed undergoing indoctrination would destroy a link between the player and Shepard that BW tried to establish.

In the KOTOR days a twist without explaining it would indeed have been fatal because then the game would've been released and finished without a proper story wrap up.
But in DLC days you have new possibilities for designing your story progression. And you could not do that with Expansion packs in the old days, because they cannot be given to the player for free...DLC can.

This guy gets the PRIIIIIIIIIIZE.

And the real interesting part, a lot of us do feel betrayed, or at least used to feel that way in some cases, and indoctrination is about betrayal, imagine finding the crucible is another reaper trap and Hackett is indoctrinated to ensure it get's built and delivered where it's needed, earth, with the reaper heart as it's source it becomes one giant indoc device, 11 billion(less the dead) potential humans indoctrinated.

You know, come to think of it, why was that thing never found and destroyed, before it's completion?

We kept sending scientists, workers, guards, to build and protect it, so with all the "traffic", somebody must've noticed.

Why was it not destroyed by the Reapers when it arrived at SOL, why did the reapers let Hackett connect it to the citadel without any resistance, the reapers had the citadel covered then decided to leave while a supposed potential threat to them was being delivered, in my opinion they wanted that thing there, now it gets fired up and everything in range becomes indoctrinated, all of earth and most importantly the entire fleet you just bought to the system, imagine as a reaper having that under your control, they could send the ships back to their respective planets to aid in the destruction of those planets.

[Ulous]

DJBare wrote...


Why was it not destroyed by the Reapers when it arrived at SOL, why did the reapers let Hackett connect it to the citadel without any resistance, the reapers had the citadel covered then decided to leave while a supposed potential threat to them was being delivered, in my opinion they wanted that thing there, now it gets fired up and everything in range becomes indoctrinated, all of earth and most importantly the entire fleet you just bought to the system, imagine as a reaper having that under your control, they could send the ships back to their respective planets to aid in the destruction of those planets.

True but then again why would the Reapers just not build it themselves? which just leaves more questions.

[BatmanTurian]

Erield wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...


Further proving the hypothesis that those who believe Bioware can't write/shouldn't-be-given-the-credit/are lazy/whatever-new-argument can't stomache I.T. because it " gives Bioware too much credit".

I don't know, this just doesn't have much of a logical basis considering all of the great games they have made over the years. Some of you may have cut your teeth on Baldur's Gate and NWN but my first Bioware games were Jade Empire and KOTOR, both of which had awesome twist endings. It's hard for me to believe, after playing so many great games made by them, that they could fail so hard in the last 10 mins of what was sure to be a blockbuster. Much of the circumstantial evidence we've gathered (which would easily win any Supreme Court case) makes it more likely that the ending had a deeper meaning than the face-value interpretation.

EDIT: oh and "Endings still won't be logical becuase the endings aren't supposed to be logical. "

Circular logic is circular.

"First:  Comparing the evidence gathered by IT as enough to 'easily win any Supreme Court case" is laughable.  It is all circumstantial; it all has alternative explanations available. "

And most evidence to convict in court cases is circumstantial and depends on a jury to convict. You can't expect the defendent to plead guilty automatically in most cases, the defendent being Bioware in this case. So it isn't laughable at all.


"Presented together it does, in fact, present a fairly credible case--in fact, it's equally credible as the alternative you so quickly dismiss."

Hey, no disagreement there, hence why I said circumstantial evidence. Please don't jump down my throat so hard. I don't quickly dismiss it.

"If two people got together in a locked room and wrote the ending scenes, and did not go through the peer review process that the rest of the game received, then is it really hard to believe that the end result is something that doesn't appeal to fans? "

I'm not sure if we should really think this is true. I mean, at some point people had to look at the script to animate, create scenes, and do voice acting. At some point, some one would go " Hey guys, I'm not sure about this." It's not like they wrote it and when they came out of the room, the finished game popped out with them. Plus the ending was most likely made in the middle of development, not in the chronological way we play the game.

"There's enough evidence for IT to make the defense want to cut a deal, maybe, but not enough to guarantee a win if you go to court--not by a long shot."

You don't actually know that. Supposition made out to be fact. Enough circumstantial evidence makes it easy to convict.

Second:  I personally find the entire plot of the Crucible to be rather poor.  Every.  Single.  Thing.  that it touches or that touches it is lackluster or tained in some way.

No argument here.


  "Maybe the reason I'm so quick to jump on the "bad writing" bandwagon is because I perceive so much bad writing that doesn't directly involve the very end sequences.  There's a lot of damn good writing too, which is why I was so hopeful, and why I find it such a bitter pill to swallow. "

I see far more great writing than poor writing, which is why it's such a bitter pill to swallow for me that they purposefully made the ending so bad.

"The team at Bioware aren't gods or geniuses, but they are talented and clever.  Sadly, their own cleverness got the best of them, as happens from time to time.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because they have created so many great games in the past. I think it's harsh and very groupthink to jump on their backs because everybody initially did not like the ending. Most of us still do not like the ending actually. But that's no reason to cloud your judgement on the matter because of the poor reception the ending received.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 15 mai 2012 - 06:36 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

DJBare wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx

"What we’re doing with Mass Effect 3 that’s a little bit different than what we’ve done before is exploring the idea of getting the player to understand and feel what Commander Shepard is experiencing versus just reacting to other characters."

So by telling the player that he was indeed undergoing indoctrination would destroy a link between the player and Shepard that BW tried to establish.

In the KOTOR days a twist without explaining it would indeed have been fatal because then the game would've been released and finished without a proper story wrap up.
But in DLC days you have new possibilities for designing your story progression. And you could not do that with Expansion packs in the old days, because they cannot be given to the player for free...DLC can.

This guy gets the PRIIIIIIIIIIZE.

And the real interesting part, a lot of us do feel betrayed, or at least used to feel that way in some cases, and indoctrination is about betrayal, imagine finding the crucible is another reaper trap and Hackett is indoctrinated to ensure it get's built and delivered where it's needed, earth, with the reaper heart as it's source it becomes one giant indoc device, 11 billion(less the dead) potential humans indoctrinated.

You know, come to think of it, why was that thing never found and destroyed, before it's completion?

We kept sending scientists, workers, guards, to build and protect it, so with all the "traffic", somebody must've noticed.

Why was it not destroyed by the Reapers when it arrived at SOL, why did the reapers let Hackett connect it to the citadel without any resistance, the reapers had the citadel covered then decided to leave while a supposed potential threat to them was being delivered, in my opinion they wanted that thing there, now it gets fired up and everything in range becomes indoctrinated, all of earth and most importantly the entire fleet you just bought to the system, imagine as a reaper having that under your control, they could send the ships back to their respective planets to aid in the destruction of those planets.

Actually that is what the entire fleet was for and Shield fleet. The Reapers are strong, unbeatable in a standup fight even, but they are not invincible.

As powerful as the Reapers are I dont think they can afford to move out of position and seize firing in order to go after the Crucible without suffering heavy losses if it is protected well.

Also the Crucible itself is not just a sphere weak metal and mchinery. The allaince knows quite well that if it goes it is over. If you chek the war assets for it it can be upgraded with JAVELIN Torpedos for defense and when it connest to the Citadel you see it throwing away its outer layer indictaing that layer was solely for protection.

Also remember a Reaper that is performing a sharp turn is more vulnerable as it lowers its mass to an unacceptable level and takes strength of it kinteic barriers.

Edit:

Also I imagine Sword Fleets first priority was to punch a hole through to the Citadel and then protect it to allow the Crucible safe passage. With a large or maximu m fleet I think you have the firepower needed for something like that, but just not for a longer fight.

Remember how long the Quarian and Geth orbital battles went on, those things are not over in a matter of minutes and even less so when you consider the size of the two fleets clashing over Earth.

Double edit:

Still there is evidence suppoting the Crucible beeing a trap, I wont deny that even if I am skeptical.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 15 mai 2012 - 06:38 .

[Vahilor]

Ulous wrote...

DJBare wrote...


Why was it not destroyed by the Reapers when it arrived at SOL, why did the reapers let Hackett connect it to the citadel without any resistance, the reapers had the citadel covered then decided to leave while a supposed potential threat to them was being delivered, in my opinion they wanted that thing there, now it gets fired up and everything in range becomes indoctrinated, all of earth and most importantly the entire fleet you just bought to the system, imagine as a reaper having that under your control, they could send the ships back to their respective planets to aid in the destruction of those planets.

True but then again why would the Reapers just not build it themselves? which just leaves more questions.

Cause it is easier for them if sombody else to build it for them and if the Reapers would have built it they never would have been able to lure Shep into their trap.. cause he would have been much more distrusting.. and with IDT the Crucible never connected to the Citadel.

[DJBare]

Ulous wrote...

True but then again why would the Reapers just not build it themselves? which just leaves more questions.

They are reapers, we don't understand their reasons, but if I had to guess I'd say they use us as slave labour in each cycle to construct one, we are told other cycles failed, but is that really true, by the time those messages are recorded most of the galaxy is indoctrinated, those messages could be a lie, each cycle constructs their own gallows so to speak, when the reapers have finished they dismantle it and set the plans for the next cycle.

Modifié par DJBare, 15 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[Ulous]

DJBare wrote...

Ulous wrote...

True but then again why would the Reapers just not build it themselves? which just leaves more questions.

They are reapers, we don't understand their reasons, but if I had to guess I'd say they use us as slave labour in each cycle to construct one, we are told other cycles failed, but is that really true, by the time those messages are recorded most of the galaxy is indoctrinated, those messages could be a lie, each cycle constructs their own gallows so to speak, when the reapers have finished they dismantle it and set the plans for the next cycle.

That's a fair comment, but like I said it just leaves more questions, it's good to keep us thinking but I wonder if they can really cover all bases with the extra DLC they are adding on, maybe we still won't fully know until the ME series continues.

[Vahilor]

DJBare wrote...

Ulous wrote...

True but then again why would the Reapers just not build it themselves? which just leaves more questions.

They are reapers, we don't understand their reasons, but if I had to guess I'd say they use us as slave labour in each cycle to construct one, we are told other cycles failed, but is that really true, by the time those messages are recorded most of the galaxy is indoctrinated, those messages could be a lie, each cycle constructs their own gallows so to speak, when the reapers have finished they dismantle it and set the plans for the next cycle.

Probably building the crucible is also a test.. so we know they never made a Prothean Reaper.. so Protheans never had any value to become a valuable Reaper and "only" were usable as Collectors.

[Ulous]

Vahilor wrote...



Probably building the crucible is also a test..

Or maybe to give each cycle the illusion that it's the only way to beat them? So they basically ditch conventional methods which I personally believe could work once you know their weaknesses, maybe making the galaxy think they can't win is part of the overall indoctrination, infact why do they even need indoctrination if they are so unbeatable?.......... because it's to make up for what they know they lack in power and numbers.

Modifié par Ulous, 15 mai 2012 - 06:48 .

[bahamutomega]

so... as a matter of evil curiosity... i'm having some trouble here...

if Shepard never left London, which i fully believe, and everything after Harbinger's beam is an indoctrination fueled dream or hallucination... did the Crucible even dock with the Citadel?

we know that the Crucible did enter the Sol system - that was seen just before our charge down to the base of the beam.

but if Shepard never left London, who opened the Citadel arms to allow the Crucible to dock?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

bahamutomega wrote...

so... as a matter of evil curiosity... i'm having some trouble here...

if Shepard never left London, which i fully believe, and everything after Harbinger's beam is an indoctrination fueled dream or hallucination... did the Crucible even dock with the Citadel?

we know that the Crucible did enter the Sol system - that was seen just before our charge down to the base of the beam.

but if Shepard never left London, who opened the Citadel arms to allow the Crucible to dock?

No one has opened it yet according to what we beleive. That is why Shepard has to wake up.

[BatmanTurian]

bahamutomega wrote...

so... as a matter of evil curiosity... i'm having some trouble here...

if Shepard never left London, which i fully believe, and everything after Harbinger's beam is an indoctrination fueled dream or hallucination... did the Crucible even dock with the Citadel?

we know that the Crucible did enter the Sol system - that was seen just before our charge down to the base of the beam.

but if Shepard never left London, who opened the Citadel arms to allow the Crucible to dock?

None of it ever happened after the beam according to the main I.T.. The docking happened after the beam, therefore it probably hasn't happened yet.

[DirtyPhoenix]

DJBare wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx

"What we’re doing with Mass Effect 3 that’s a little bit different than what we’ve done before is exploring the idea of getting the player to understand and feel what Commander Shepard is experiencing versus just reacting to other characters."

So by telling the player that he was indeed undergoing indoctrination would destroy a link between the player and Shepard that BW tried to establish.

In the KOTOR days a twist without explaining it would indeed have been fatal because then the game would've been released and finished without a proper story wrap up.
But in DLC days you have new possibilities for designing your story progression. And you could not do that with Expansion packs in the old days, because they cannot be given to the player for free...DLC can.

This guy gets the PRIIIIIIIIIIZE.

And the real interesting part, a lot of us do feel betrayed, or at least used to feel that way in some cases, and indoctrination is about betrayal, imagine finding the crucible is another reaper trap and Hackett is indoctrinated to ensure it get's built and delivered where it's needed, earth, with the reaper heart as it's source it becomes one giant indoc device, 11 billion(less the dead) potential humans indoctrinated.

You know, come to think of it, why was that thing never found and destroyed, before it's completion?

We kept sending scientists, workers, guards, to build and protect it, so with all the "traffic", somebody must've noticed.

Why was it not destroyed by the Reapers when it arrived at SOL, why did the reapers let Hackett connect it to the citadel without any resistance, the reapers had the citadel covered then decided to leave while a supposed potential threat to them was being delivered, in my opinion they wanted that thing there, now it gets fired up and everything in range becomes indoctrinated, all of earth and most importantly the entire fleet you just bought to the system, imagine as a reaper having that under your control, they could send the ships back to their respective planets to aid in the destruction of those planets.

To be fair the reapers left the scene before the crucible arrived at the citadel. In the cutscene shwoing the crucible entering sol rsystem, the reapers were already flying towards earth.

[DJBare]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

bahamutomega wrote...

so... as a matter of evil curiosity... i'm having some trouble here...

if Shepard never left London, which i fully believe, and everything after Harbinger's beam is an indoctrination fueled dream or hallucination... did the Crucible even dock with the Citadel?

we know that the Crucible did enter the Sol system - that was seen just before our charge down to the base of the beam.

but if Shepard never left London, who opened the Citadel arms to allow the Crucible to dock?

No one has opened it yet according to what we beleive. That is why Shepard has to wake up.

The crucible was arriving as Shepard got into the transport vehicle.
Anderson: Several reapers have broken off including Harbinger, they are heading here, it will give Hackett a chance to get the crucible in place.

Which of course begs the real question again, why did the reapers leave the citadel unprotected, we'd already been told by the prothean VI that TIM spilled the beans to the reapers, and my answer again, it's because this is what the Reapers want.

[Arian Dynas]

BatmanTurian wrote...

bahamutomega wrote...

so... as a matter of evil curiosity... i'm having some trouble here...

if Shepard never left London, which i fully believe, and everything after Harbinger's beam is an indoctrination fueled dream or hallucination... did the Crucible even dock with the Citadel?

we know that the Crucible did enter the Sol system - that was seen just before our charge down to the base of the beam.

but if Shepard never left London, who opened the Citadel arms to allow the Crucible to dock?

None of it ever happened after the beam according to the main I.T.. The docking happened after the beam, therefore it probably hasn't happened yet.

It seems linking to the thing in my blog isn't sufficent... please don't make me post my script again, people usually don't take the time to read my walls of text.

[Rifneno]

DJBare wrote...

Aparantly there is something in the 17hz range in the game, which is also a frequency that is known to cause anxiety in some people, of course your audio equipment would need to be capable of reproducing such a low frequency, I don't think many would have anything that goes below 20hz.

Seriously? Why the hell would they put that in there?

ohupthis wrote...

You know, come to think of it, why was that thing never found and destroyed, before it's completion?

We kept sending scientists, workers, guards, to build and protect it, so with all the "traffic", somebody must've noticed.

The Reapers must know about it. If you send indoctrinated rachni, and you can if you're a ****** that thought it would be a good idea to murder the real queen and then sacrifice the uberkrogans to save the clone, how could the Reapers not know through them?

Ulous wrote...

True but then again why would the Reapers just not build it themselves? which just leaves more questions.

My theory is that the Crucible, whatever it really does, is the Reapers' real goal. They've reached the limits of how they can improve it so they leave the blueprints around and trick the stupid meatbags into desperately pouring their best effort into building and improving it. Every cycle it improves. Eventually it'll be capable of fulfilling its purpose.

Vigil did specifically state that the Reapers harvested their technology, so they do in fact steal new ideas from their organic victims.

[DJBare]

pirate1802 wrote...


To be fair the reapers left the scene before the crucible arrived at the citadel. In the cutscene shwoing the crucible entering sol rsystem, the reapers were already flying towards earth.

See my last post, the reapers knew the crucible was on the way.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

DJBare wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

bahamutomega wrote...

so... as a matter of evil curiosity... i'm having some trouble here...

if Shepard never left London, which i fully believe, and everything after Harbinger's beam is an indoctrination fueled dream or hallucination... did the Crucible even dock with the Citadel?

we know that the Crucible did enter the Sol system - that was seen just before our charge down to the base of the beam.

but if Shepard never left London, who opened the Citadel arms to allow the Crucible to dock?

No one has opened it yet according to what we beleive. That is why Shepard has to wake up.

The crucible was arriving as Shepard got into the transport vehicle.
Anderson: Several reapers have broken off including Harbinger, they are heading here, it will give Hackett a chance to get the crucible in place.

Which of course begs the real question again, why did the reapers leave the citadel unprotected, we'd already been told by the prothean VI that TIM spilled the beans to the reapers, and my answer again, it's because this is what the Reapers want.

We dont know if the Citadel is unprotected, actually we see Reapers around the Citadel at the start of the battle.

For all we know Sword Fleet threw everything it got into punching a hole to the Citadel allowing Shield fleet and the Crucible to move through. That would be the logical move since we need the Citadel and the fleet we have gathered while certainly not a overall match against the Reapers, it has the firepower to give them one hell of a fight and potentially forcing them of certain positions.

[DJBare]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
We dont know if the Citadel is unprotected, actually we see Reapers around the Citadel at the start of the battle.

For all we know Sword Fleet threw everything it got into punching a hole to the Citadel allowing Shield fleet and the Crucible to move through. That would be the logical move since we need the Citadel and the fleet we have gathered while certainly not a overall match against the Reapers, it has the firepower to give them one hell of a fight and potentially forcing them of certain positions.

We see the crucible arrive and attach in a very clear cutscene with no resistance, there are 100s of reapers in sol apparantly, they could not spare a few to cover the citadel?, I'm not buying it, there was no resistance on approach.

[DJBare]

And you know whats more interesting?, watch the cutscene, do you see any reaper wrecks?, I see wrecks of our own ships but non of the reapers.

[dreamgazer]

 
The Illusive Man: "The Crucible will allow me to control them".

How the hell does he learn that the Crucible is a device that will allow him to control the Reapers? Mmmph.



A few observations, all assuredly covered, from my recent play-through of the ending:

-- The catalyst's tone is anything but neutral, even in the high-tier EMS end. He's harsh, annoyed, abrupt.   And when he talks about how "we" control The Illusive Man, it just really doesn't sit well with me. At all.  It smacks of motive, and maybe a hint of satisfaction. 

-- The catalyst's language and word-choice reflects more than a little on the conversation with Soverign in ME1, all the way down to talk of cycles and bringing order to the chaos of evolution.  I mean, the way he punctuates the word "chaos" is ... just way too indicative in my eyes.  Also, I can't help but roll my eyes when he mentions the "final evolution of life", when I've practically got Soverign's glowing red self photo-bombing him in the background saying "Nuh-uh, I'M THE PINNACLE OF EVOLUTION."

-- "You can wipe out all synthetic life, if you want".  I'm leaning more towards the if you want as an indication of choosing the red option as opposed to the others, but that also sounds surprisingly indicative of being able to choose what you're destroying.  Everything about that whole description is non-committal, evasive, and wishy-washy in tone, which changes almost instantly as soon as he offers Control.  Still heavily convinced he's dampening this option, and perking up significantly once the Reaper-alive options are mentioned.

-- I still didn't get the dialogue inclusion for "including most technology" for the destroy description.  What on earth dictates that?!  

-- After watching the flashes of Anderson and The Illusive Man execute their respective Crucible solutions, I'm still undecided on whether Shepard manifests them on his/her own or whether the catalyst forces them.  But the way FemShepard says "So, The Illusive Man was right", it almost seems like she just finished watching a surprise flash before her eyes that she couldn't control, or something. 

-- Folks, Shepard's last words are "And there will be peace?", not "I ... don't know". Blargh.

-- Every time I watch the Citadel sequence, it seems more and more intentionally surreal to me. Anderson's wavy movement is so incredibly peculiar, as well as The Illusive Man's insistent confidence. And, damnit, that perfect face-plant onto the ascending elevator can't be real. I mean, Shepard just falls directly on that thin plank that elevated him/her up to the lair.  And I definitely see where people are getting that Anderson is looking at Shepard when he says "They're controlling you." It'd be one thing if his vision just kinda skims over to your eye sight, but he LOCKS directly on you when he's saying it. Very eerie. 

-- Something NEW(ish): I've played through the game three times previously, but I hadn't played with From Ashes installed since I was awaiting a tolerable price-tag.  The first time (of course, selecting destroy), Ashley was the third individual to emerge from the Normandy, following Joker and Liara (LI).  Second and third time, it was Joker, Liara, and Garrus.  However, this fourth time--the first with FA available---I received JAVIK as the third walk-out.  I used Javik very little: the Ardat-Yakshi Monstery, one N7 mission, and Thessia. Everything else was Garrus as my primary gun, and a shift between Liara, Tali, and EDI wherever they seemed pertinent. 

-----

Still neutral/unconvinced whether the full sprawl of the indoctrination theory was intended (though I'd be elated if it was), but I'm more than convinced that Shepard suffers symptoms of indoctrination from the very first moments when the boy disappears from the vent.  The profuse mentioning of it throughout ME3 is, to put it lightly, consistent. It's everywhere, almost like a plague that's spread. It'd be easier to count the missions that don't mention indoctrination. And I still think it'd make an entertaining drinking game.  

Once again, I enjoyed the experience again.  It's such a bleak, dreary one, but there's something about the tone that swallows you whole while you're playing. There's a weight to it that I really appreciate---something that started in ME2 and continued to blossom through the DLC. Honestly, I think it's near-impossible to feel that dark, nihilistic tonality wrapping you up while you're playing and not feel like it's intentional. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 15 mai 2012 - 07:33 .

[bahamutomega]

dreamgazer wrote...

A few observations, all assuredly covered, from my recent play-through of the ending:

-- The catalyst's tone is anything but neutral, even in the high-tier EMS end. He's harsh, annoyed, abrupt.   And when he talks about how "we" control The Illusive Man, it just really doesn't sit well with me. At all.  It smacks of motive, and maybe a hint of satisfaction. 

there is a close up of the Catalyst's face when you select the Control option - very sinister, satisfied and smug...  and creepy.  very, very creepy

[gunslinger_ruiz]

dreamgazer wrote...

-- I still didn't get the dialogue inclusion for "including most
technology" for the destroy description.  What on earth dictates that?!

I think that dictates either the "bad red ending" or the "good red ending minus Shepard's breath" but I can't say for sure, I've only ever gotten the good red with Shepard's breath.

dreamgazer wrote...

 
-- After watching the flashes of Anderson and The Illusive Man execute
their respective Crucible solutions, I'm still undecided on whether
Shepard manifests them on his/her own or whether the catalyst forces
them.  But the way FemShepard says "So, The Illusive Man was right", it
almost seems like she just finished watching a surprise flash before her
eyes that she couldn't control, or something. 

I'm glad you pointed this out, I didn't even think to question it.

As someone previously stated: Shepard's perspective is OUR perspective as the gamer, everything he/she sees is what we see.

When those flashes happen, WE see Shepard see Anderson pick the red option, Illusive Man pick the blue. Now, IF we are assuming Shepard's perspective then it is hard to believe he/she would paint Anderson with a red light and Illusive Man with paragon blue and not just some neutral gray flashback color for both of them. Assuming that, we can almost say the Catalyst is showing us/Shepard this memory flash in which case we can almost say the Catalyst is inside our mind.

If not, then these flashes/visions are ambigious things to put into our/Shepards perspective/vision without further purpose other than to show us what those choices will look like from an aesthetic viewpoint.

Are you guys seeing what I'm sayiing?

In short: the flashforwards potentially show The Catalyst as being able to PUT IDEAS into our/Shepard's head and not just pull images out of it (i.e. the child for its physical appearance).

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 15 mai 2012 - 07:59 .