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[estebanus]

Big Bad wrote...

Speaking of paragon/renegade choices, are there any actual benefits to being a renegade in ME3? You can't make peace between the geth and quarians, which I think is a pretty serious drawback to being a renegade. Are there any benefits that would offset this negative?

If you killed Wrex in ME1, you can get the full support of the salarians and krogan if you sabotaged the genophage.

[Big Bad]

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Speaking of paragon/renegade choices, are there any actual benefits to being a renegade in ME3? You can't make peace between the geth and quarians, which I think is a pretty serious drawback to being a renegade. Are there any benefits that would offset this negative?

If you killed Wrex in ME1, you can get the full support of the salarians and krogan if you sabotaged the genophage.

Yet another thing I was not aware of.  I guess I should pay more attention!

[MegumiAzusa]

Rosewind wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

I found this strange. One time I found myself talking to Vega and he commented "Does anyone else hear that hum?" I found it strange because it seems so un-important so why would BioWare put it in? Later I looked up indoctrination in the codex and here is what it said:

"Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind. "

That sounds oddly like Vega is being indoctrinated, but wait if that is true...then that would mean there is an indoctrination device on the Normandy! Which is quite possible. It seems likely that the Illusive man could have put an indoctrination device on the Normandy.

Addition:

And the keepers are the servants of the reapers. Maybe they put indoctrination devices around? They did modify the Citadel after the Sovreign attack...

You can't pinpoint Vegas indoctrination or Shepards, Vega had contact with Collector prior and was the only one who survived while blowing up a Collector Ship. Could have been done there.
You also might want to read this: http://social.biowar...32/260#12232510
There are some additional clues in other scenes but the both in that post are the most blatant ones.

Can the collectors indoctrinate though? I didn't think they could? Because they are well organics and there aren't any reapers in the system yet that we know of.

"Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind."

[BatmanTurian]

TJBartlemus wrote...

On another post this came up and I thought it would fit well here.

Bill Casey wrote...

Prettz made a video of some strange sounds at the end of the game...

Ringing

I couldn't help notice the ringing reminded me of Object Rho...

Rho

And
then balance5050 pointed out that for a split second, barely
noticeable, there's flashes of a white circle during the object rho
scene...

http://desmond.image....jpg&res=medium
Not nearly as prevalent as when Shepard is dreaming, in the corrupted consensus, or at the ending...
I never would have noticed it...


Also, in Arrival recurring nightmares are a symptom of indoctrination, and if you fail Arrival you get EXACTLY what is described in the audio logs...

Arrival Fail



I watched the video and looked through the scenes and what I saw was a little odd. The first was of Shepards helmet or head in helmet on a spear/pole with destruction behind it. Next was what I believe was Harbinger attacking the citadel, but he was on the inside of the ring which makes no sense. How would he get in? The next was all of our friends and the Illusive man standing on a outlook over what looked like an asari city, then Harbinger or a reaper decends infront of them. And in between all of the scenes was harbinger.

Also if you let the timer go out wouldn't it just be an explosion when you collide with the relay? Not a vision?

I hate the arrival fail video. It's my own personal high octane nightmare fuel. I can't even watch it slowed down.

[estebanus]

Big Bad wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Speaking of paragon/renegade choices, are there any actual benefits to being a renegade in ME3? You can't make peace between the geth and quarians, which I think is a pretty serious drawback to being a renegade. Are there any benefits that would offset this negative?

If you killed Wrex in ME1, you can get the full support of the salarians and krogan if you sabotaged the genophage.

Yet another thing I was not aware of.  I guess I should pay more attention!

Garrus even congratulates you on it later on...

[Arian Dynas]

 [quote]byne wrote...

[quote]D.Sharrah wrote...

I really do hate playing Renegade...but if I was going to do it, wanted to go all the way...and man it sucks.  Probably explains why I have been on this thread more recently instead of working on that play through.
[/quote]

I'll never understand the people who play renegade as their canon playthroughs. They always talk about being no-nonsense tough guys who do whatever it takes to get the job done, but like 98% of renegade choices are just being cruel for the sake of being cruel.
[/quote]

Hence why I'm paragade. I have no compunctions about kicking mother****ers through plate glass windows, yet I still remain sensitive and kind, willing to give Tali a hug and not try to get to second base in front of the squad. 

[quote]BatmanTurian wrote...

[quote]Rosewind wrote...

[quote]BatmanTurian wrote...

[quote]David7204 wrote...

There's also that conversation with EDI when she tells Shepard specifically that s/he is fully organic. [/quote]

Shepard is organic in the sense that his/her brain is organic and skin and some other things. But Shep also has a lot of synthetic upgrades and Cybernetics. Shep is ME's 500 Billion Credit man, built faster, stronger, tougher, and oh yeah, torn from the clutches of the Grim Reaper himself.

[/quote]
Fixed *giggle*[/quote]

yeah i actually meant to put that but made a Fruedian slip.

[/quote]



[quote]Corik wrote...

[quote]Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

No, but considering how much of Shepard is synthetic it is a good guess losing it would be fatal. 

I mean we see part of how much synethtic goes into rebuilding him in ME2´s opening and hear a bit more in ME3. Not even mentioning that Shepards own physical abilities clearly show he is no longer completely human. To give two examples, Shepard can use the Claymore Shotgun which in ME2 is described as having a recoil which would break the arm of a human and Shepard also pust the smack down on the Shadow broker, a Yagh, with his bare hands. 

[/quote]

Yeah, that's why I think the child deliberately lies. I'm pretty sure even the geth won't be destroyed. Why some synthetics will be destroyed and others not? A ship is also synthetic. The weapons of the soldiers in London are also synthetic.

The child explaining destruction option didn't made any sense even the first time I saw it.

[/quote]

Let's see, judging by the opening loading screen and cinematic, major synthetic parts of Shepard include...

-Several joints in his spine, entire vertebra
-A "pacemaker" for his heat, ensuring it continues to beat, and responsible for starting it up in the first place
-Several ribs
-Most of his left and right arms
-Much of his legs

-Most of his skeletal structure, cloned bones aside
-A number of synthetic neurons
-Nearly his entire musculature, throughout which synthetic fibres at woven,
-Much of his skin, woven with synthetic fibers
-Nearly his entire skeletal structure, throughout which yet more fibers are woven.

Basically more than enough to ensure Shepard stays alive... and would be dead very quickly without it. Morever, it raises the even better argument, of HOW THE HELL WOULD A BEAM DIFFERENTIATE SYNTHETICS IN SHEPARD FROM A TOASTER OVEN!? 

[quote]Rosewind wrote...

[quote]lythran9 wrote...

personally i think if they are going to go down the hallucination route they could easily turn around and show that everything since coming in to contact with the beacon on eden prime in ME 1 was a hallucination just to wack a middle finger in your face after the smack you just recieved from the actual ending[/quote]

And lose a lot of fan's in the process, honestly don't see that happening.

[/quote]

That would require a childish amount of stupidity and petiness.


[quote]Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

[quote]BatmanTurian wrote...

I just want to repost something I posted in another thread, because it makes a really big point about the symbolism in the endings, especially Destroy. This is in response to Erield, who constantly says that choosing Destroy is also giving in to a choice the Starchild gives you and could be just as bad as the other two.

Except at the end in Destroy, Shepard's face and body language is basically " F*** this S**t" when 
they're shooting the tube. Notice the tube looks like the baby reaper tubes that were feeding it human smoothies? When I saw that, the symbolism was clear as day. It reminded me of the utter, disgusting monsters that they are.  Shepard actually starts looking healthier and moving easier almost as if.... Shepard is regaining their freedom to 
move easily in a dream where the entire time it seems like Shepard is wounded and holding the weight of the galaxy on his/her shoulders.

The other two choices have Shepard throwing away his gun, giving up to the Starbeiber's argument. In Destroy he holds it until the end, keeping to his resolve, his face full of defiant anger and rightious fury, much more like the real Shepard we've known the last three games as opposed to the unsure, weak Shepard after Harbinger's beam. The symbolism is far deeper in the endings than people realize.


[/quote]

Yeah while Destroy is a choice given by starkid, it is clearly not a choice he wants Shepard to take. He is painting it in a clear bad light and generally wants to steer you away from it. 

That is reason enough to think about taking it twice as this kid has just told us he is repsonsible and possibly a part of the Reapers. 

Add then Shepards reaction and the fact that it is the only chocie taht can trigger the breath scene and you allready havea good argument before even getting into the details of things. 

[/quote]

Actually, Destroy is not an option ever given by The Guardian at all. It's an option given to you by Anderson. THEN he comments about how he "Knows you've thought about destroying us." 

[MegumiAzusa]

TJBartlemus wrote...
[...]
And
then balance5050 pointed out that for a split second, barely
noticeable, there's flashes of a white circle during the object rho
scene...

http://desmond.image....jpg&res=medium
Not nearly as prevalent as when Shepard is dreaming, in the corrupted consensus, or at the ending...
I never would have noticed it...
[...]

Like this?

[estebanus]

BatmanTurian wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

On another post this came up and I thought it would fit well here.

Bill Casey wrote...

Prettz made a video of some strange sounds at the end of the game...

Ringing

I couldn't help notice the ringing reminded me of Object Rho...

Rho

And
then balance5050 pointed out that for a split second, barely
noticeable, there's flashes of a white circle during the object rho
scene...

http://desmond.image....jpg&res=medium
Not nearly as prevalent as when Shepard is dreaming, in the corrupted consensus, or at the ending...
I never would have noticed it...


Also, in Arrival recurring nightmares are a symptom of indoctrination, and if you fail Arrival you get EXACTLY what is described in the audio logs...

Arrival Fail



I watched the video and looked through the scenes and what I saw was a little odd. The first was of Shepards helmet or head in helmet on a spear/pole with destruction behind it. Next was what I believe was Harbinger attacking the citadel, but he was on the inside of the ring which makes no sense. How would he get in? The next was all of our friends and the Illusive man standing on a outlook over what looked like an asari city, then Harbinger or a reaper decends infront of them. And in between all of the scenes was harbinger.

Also if you let the timer go out wouldn't it just be an explosion when you collide with the relay? Not a vision?

I hate the arrival fail video. It's my own personal high octane nightmare fuel. I can't even watch it slowed down.

Yeah, one day I was playing arrival, and then I remembered I had to go visit my grandparents. When I came back, I saw that I had left the game on, and that I only had 5 minutes left. So I tried completing it as fast as possible, but I was stopped in the place where all the offices are. suddenly, the screen cut to black, and I saw the video. Scared the sh*t out of me!

[Rosewind]

Badassfully: Hey that's my sister.

[BatmanTurian]

estebanus wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

On another post this came up and I thought it would fit well here.

Bill Casey wrote...

Prettz made a video of some strange sounds at the end of the game...

Ringing

I couldn't help notice the ringing reminded me of Object Rho...

Rho

And
then balance5050 pointed out that for a split second, barely
noticeable, there's flashes of a white circle during the object rho
scene...

http://desmond.image....jpg&res=medium
Not nearly as prevalent as when Shepard is dreaming, in the corrupted consensus, or at the ending...
I never would have noticed it...


Also, in Arrival recurring nightmares are a symptom of indoctrination, and if you fail Arrival you get EXACTLY what is described in the audio logs...

Arrival Fail



I watched the video and looked through the scenes and what I saw was a little odd. The first was of Shepards helmet or head in helmet on a spear/pole with destruction behind it. Next was what I believe was Harbinger attacking the citadel, but he was on the inside of the ring which makes no sense. How would he get in? The next was all of our friends and the Illusive man standing on a outlook over what looked like an asari city, then Harbinger or a reaper decends infront of them. And in between all of the scenes was harbinger.

Also if you let the timer go out wouldn't it just be an explosion when you collide with the relay? Not a vision?

I hate the arrival fail video. It's my own personal high octane nightmare fuel. I can't even watch it slowed down.

Yeah, one day I was playing arrival, and then I remembered I had to go visit my grandparents. When I came back, I saw that I had left the game on, and that I only had 5 minutes left. So I tried completing it as fast as possible, but I was stopped in the place where all the offices are. suddenly, the screen cut to black, and I saw the video. Scared the sh*t out of me!

I can watch most horror and even Slenderman stuff and creepypasta, but that video... and to Kelly Chambers of all people! Ugh.

[Arian Dynas]

Oh and a bit of quote help. Anywhere in one of my posts where you see my text NOT surrounded by a quote box, just select from the beginning of the post to where you want to respond, copy into a new window, add a [./quote] tag to the bottom, cut out the parts you don't want to respond to, and voila.

[estebanus]

Rosewind wrote...

Badassfully: Hey that's my sister.

Damnit, Blasto! You just blew up half of Zakera ward!

It was an aethstetically displeasing view anyway.

[maxloef]

About the white "dream" transitions, there is actualy ONE at the control ending, when shepard lets go for the controls for a second it shows a white flash...after that...no more...

Could that mean that the transitional effect in this case, shows you going BACK to the dream, like when shepard let go for a second there was a glimpse of hope, but when you grab the controls you're fully indoctrinated?

< Source

[estebanus]

maxloef wrote...

About the white "dream" transitions, there is actualy ONE at the control ending, when shepard lets go for the controls for a second it shows a white flash...after that...no more...

Could that mean that the transitional effect in this case, shows you going BACK to the dream, like when shepard let go for a second there was a glimpse of hope, but when you grab the controls you're fully indoctrinated?

< Source

I've got a screenshot of it. here:

[marcelo_sdk]

I can be very wrong, but to consider Shepard a to be partly synthetic isn't too much? He have some implants that saved his life, but when the Catalyst says that all synthetic life would be destroyed, he refers to all kind of synthetic devices? Like, a guy with a device to help his heart to beat, he would be killed too?

[MegumiAzusa]

maxloef wrote...

About the white "dream" transitions, there is actualy ONE at the control ending, when shepard lets go for the controls for a second it shows a white flash...after that...no more...

Could that mean that the transitional effect in this case, shows you going BACK to the dream, like when shepard let go for a second there was a glimpse of hope, but when you grab the controls you're fully indoctrinated?

< Source

I would actually rather say: Sheps reality is warped, meaning some things he sees could be real while others are not.
Now if we look closer: Control has one flash when she let go for a bit, Synthesis has a blunt fade when Shep is in final stages of dissolving, and Destroy has two that coincide with her shots.
If we now guess that flashes are transitions of reality we could conclude that:
in Control Shep lets go, transitions into a fake reality and was never actually regaining the strength of reaching the handles again.
in Synthesis Shep dies and her dying mind creates the fake reality of the people she values most
in Destroy Shep transitions into a fake reality (the first flash) but then transitions back into the warped reality (the second flash)

All of this is based on assumptions and can be neither proven or disproven.

[Corik]

marcelo_sdk wrote...

I can be very wrong, but to consider Shepard a to be partly synthetic isn't too much? He have some implants that saved his life, but when the Catalyst says that all synthetic life would be destroyed, he refers to all kind of synthetic devices? Like, a guy with a device to help his heart to beat, he would be killed too?

According to the child, yes. He (or better, it?) puts in the same group the reapers, the geth and Shepard implants. All of it is a lie. Doesn't make any sense. As someone said before, it would even destroy all the toasters on Earth. Again... doesn't make any sense. Everything points to "Destroy" as the way to keep on your mission since Mass Effect 1 and, if IT is correct (which is highly possible), the only way to avoid changing your mind to what the Reapers want you to think (and completely become indoctrinated like Saren or TIM).

[marcelo_sdk]

I don't know if the most bizarre thing in the ending is the Catalyst's arguments or Shepard hearing all that crap and staying quiet. I'm certain that, despite IT is true or not, that's not the real end.

[Arian Dynas]

Once again my script grinds to a screeching halt. Does anyone know if Anderson knows the Illusive Man personally? As either TIM or Jack Harper? I can imagine they would recognize each other on sight, but I doubt they would use their first names...

[MegumiAzusa]

marcelo_sdk wrote...

I don't know if the most bizarre thing in the ending is the Catalyst's arguments or Shepard hearing all that crap and staying quiet. I'm certain that, despite IT is true or not, that's not the real end.

As posted earlier Shepard also stayed that quiet when being presented Object Rho by Dr Kenson.

[Corik]

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite hallucination about the Citadel.

[D.Sharrah]

byne wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Speaking of paragon/renegade choices, are there any actual benefits to being a renegade in ME3? You can't make peace between the geth and quarians, which I think is a pretty serious drawback to being a renegade. Are there any benefits that would offset this negative?

You can make peace if you're renegade.

If you were renegade in ME2 and destroyed the heretics, making peace in ME3 is actually easier than if you've been paragon the entire series.

Also playing as Renegade you can get the full support of the Krogan and the Salarians if you play all your cards right...which involves killing/letting die two of the most awesome Krogan in the series (Wrex and Eve) (not to mention the possibility of having to shoot Mordrin in the back if you can't pass the rep check - or if you just want to be evil).

Its funny this has been brought up numerous times before...and it alwasy centers on the idea that paragons get more in the end - well yeah, paragons are playing the long game (for the most part) - they know that their actions may not give them something right now, but it could pay off huge down the road.  While renegades are almost playing for a more immediate satisfaction...I remember pointing out that in ME 1 and 2, that alot of renegade choices often led to more credits/exp, etc.  Rewards that are definetly more short term in nature...where as the paragon choices were more building bridges so that you could cross rivers later that looked uncrossable...

[blooregard]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Once again my script grinds to a screeching halt. Does anyone know if Anderson knows the Illusive Man personally? As either TIM or Jack Harper? I can imagine they would recognize each other on sight, but I doubt they would use their first names...

I don't think Anderson knows TIM personally.

[D.Sharrah]

Big Bad wrote...

byne wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Speaking of paragon/renegade choices, are there any actual benefits to being a renegade in ME3? You can't make peace between the geth and quarians, which I think is a pretty serious drawback to being a renegade. Are there any benefits that would offset this negative?

You can make peace if you're renegade.

If you were renegade in ME2 and destroyed the heretics, making peace in ME3 is actually easier than if you've been paragon the entire series.

Really?  I had no idea!  That's actually kind of cool - I guess sometime I'll have to do a renegade playthrough of the entire series.  Thanks for the info!:happy:

Only fair to warn you...if you typically play paragon, playing renegade can be tough.  That's what I am working on right now (ultimate renegade play through) and I literally have to force myself to make some of the renegade choices...and in extreme cases put the controller down in some cases when I know paragon interrupts are coming so I don't use them...

[estebanus]

blooregard wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Once again my script grinds to a screeching halt. Does anyone know if Anderson knows the Illusive Man personally? As either TIM or Jack Harper? I can imagine they would recognize each other on sight, but I doubt they would use their first names...

I don't think Anderson knows TIM personally.

He doesn't. I also don't think Anderson's ever met TIM.