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[Raistlin Majare 1992]

DJBare wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
We dont know if the Citadel is unprotected, actually we see Reapers around the Citadel at the start of the battle.

For all we know Sword Fleet threw everything it got into punching a hole to the Citadel allowing Shield fleet and the Crucible to move through. That would be the logical move since we need the Citadel and the fleet we have gathered while certainly not a overall match against the Reapers, it has the firepower to give them one hell of a fight and potentially forcing them of certain positions.

We see the crucible arrive and attach in a very clear cutscene with no resistance, there are 100s of reapers in sol apparantly, they could not spare a few to cover the citadel?, I'm not buying it, there was no resistance on approach.

No resistance that we saw. We only see the Crucible entering sol system and right as it attaches to the Citadel. Any number of things can have happened in between that including the Reapers trying to reach the Crucible, but ultimately beeing unable to get past Sword and Shield fleet.

We dident gather the largest fleet in the galaxy just for it to be utterly useless in protecting the very thing it was gathered to protect.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 15 mai 2012 - 08:15 .

[WolfyZA]

Ownaholic wrote...

Nauks wrote...

byne wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...
-image snip-

Anyhow, I tend to not put much weight behind where the characters seem to be looking. I've noticed in a couple of conversations with Liara, her eyeline seems to be off, like she isnt actually looking at Shep.

That's a good point.
We could assume that since it's such an important part of the story (they even bothered to use a speciffic weapon for the cutscenes after all, that's as rare a it comes) that they were actually paying attention this time to get it right. =)

Not to utterly re-post. But it's easy for things to get lost in this topic.

In my documentary, I make a note about how there is an article in the Collector's Edition guidebook that talks about how the developers deliberately pay key attention to eye points in cinematics like this. In regular gameplay, it's easy to get glitched (like when Shepard is taling to Liara and they are both looking at Glyph).
But in cutscenes, they pay specific attention to the eyes.

You can see that snippet in the video here. 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 55 seconds in.

Just wanna say I really enjoyed your indepth documentary, you really nailed it on the head. Now I just wanna know what do you think of the whispers on the Normandy itself??? On another thread people claimed that they heard a child laughter in certain parts on the Normandy ship... some even claim to hear screams and weird buzzing noises (IT symptoms) seeing that the Normandy still might have the IFF installed into its core which as you know is reaper technology... Your thoughts?

Modifié par WolfyZA, 15 mai 2012 - 08:42 .

[Arian Dynas]

New little discovery from our friend DoomsdayDevice.

DoomsdayDevice writes...

Okay, I got something you could post for me, if nobody has brought it up yet.

In the second dream, when voices are whispering Shepard's name, there's a voice I always took to be Wrex's. But listening to it again, it actually sounds a hell of a lot more like Harbinger.

This video:



At 0:34

Pretty sure that's Harbinger. If so, it's another thing that links the dreams to indoctrination.

[BatmanTurian]

Arian Dynas wrote...

New little discovery from our friend DoomsdayDevice.

DoomsdayDevice writes...

Okay, I got something you could post for me, if nobody has brought it up yet.

In the second dream, when voices are whispering Shepard's name, there's a voice I always took to be Wrex's. But listening to it again, it actually sounds a hell of a lot more like Harbinger.

This video:



At 0:34

Pretty sure that's Harbinger. If so, it's another thing that links the dreams to indoctrination.

Yeah I think we heard and analyzed that in the last thread. I can confirm that you can hear a very twisted and warped "Har- bin- ger " in the dreams a lot but it can get drowned out in the noise sometimes. Interestingly enough, I can also confirm that when I played ME1 again, the second whisper ( after the repeated " I saw" 's) when Shepard is telling Chakwas about his dream after Eden Prime is another twisted and vague " Har-bin-ger " that they must have added in the last update to ME1.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 15 mai 2012 - 09:16 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

New little discovery from our friend DoomsdayDevice.

DoomsdayDevice writes...

Okay, I got something you could post for me, if nobody has brought it up yet.

In the second dream, when voices are whispering Shepard's name, there's a voice I always took to be Wrex's. But listening to it again, it actually sounds a hell of a lot more like Harbinger.

This video:



At 0:34

Pretty sure that's Harbinger. If so, it's another thing that links the dreams to indoctrination.

Sounds like Wrex to me, or at least more like Wrex than Harbinger.

[RavenEyry]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Yeah I think we heard and analyzed that in the last thread. I can confirm that you can hear a very twisted and warped "Har- bin- ger " in the dreams a lot but it can get drowned out in the noise sometimes. Interestingly enough, I can also confirm that when I played ME1 again, the second whisper ( after the repeated " I saw" 's) when Shepard is telling Chakwas about his dream after Eden Prime is another twisted and vague " Har-bin-ger " that they must have added in the last update to ME1.

Sounds like Wrex to me among the people saying "Shepard", but after listening to it loudly I can definately hear mumbles of "har-bin-ger" as you say. Is there any chance you could get a video of it being said in 1?

[BleedingUranium]

Don't forget everyone, the Catalyst lied about at least one thing, IT or FV:
He can't be the Catalyst, because the Crucible changed him.
Not direct IT evidence, but it does prove that, no matter your view on the end, he's not the Catalyst. So, in FV, Starchild, The Citadel, and Shepard all can't be the Catalyst, as they are all changed. FV has no Catalyst. In IT, Starchild still can't be, but the Citadel (as is still mainly thought in-universe) can be, and so could Shep. Keep in mind, Javik was originally going to be the Catalyst, so we know it could be a person, quite possibly Shepard.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

^
It's nice to know there are still things that people can suggest for/against IT that can blow my mind.

[RavenEyry]

The ending at face value shows many people (possibly including Bioware) don't know the meaning of "crucible" and "catalyst".

[gunslinger_ruiz]

I know some people see "Crucible" as Shepard's test, but (and I could be wrong here) I thought it was the alliance project directors that dubbed it "The Crucible" as in "a test/challenge for us to build". I'm not entirely sure since everyone and everything in the entire galaxy refers to it as the Crucible, The Illusive Man and the Prothean VI to name a couple.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 15 mai 2012 - 09:39 .

[Jadebaby]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Well, I just got a message from Priestly about why the IDT thread was locked, and yes, it was apparently because it was getting too large, he decided that since there was no chance that anyone would read through the whole thing, the discussion would continue elsewhere.

So what about "So we can't get the ending we want after all"?

[Salient Archer]

citadel
1.a fortress that commands a city and is used in the control of the inhabitants and in defense during attack or siege.
2.any strongly fortified place; stronghold.
3.(formerly) a heavily armored structure on a warship, for protecting the engines, magazines, etc.

crucible
1.a container of metal or refractory material employed for heating substances to high temperatures.
2.Metallurgy . a hollow area at the bottom of a furnace in which the metal collects.
3.a severe, searching test or trial.

catalyst
1.Chemistry . a substance that causes or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected.
2.something that causes activity between two or more persons or forces without itself being affected.
3.a person or thing that precipitates an event or change.
4.a person whose talk, enthusiasm, or energy causes others to be more friendly, enthusiastic, or energetic.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 15 mai 2012 - 09:58 .

[Jadebaby]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

New little discovery from our friend DoomsdayDevice.

DoomsdayDevice writes...

Okay, I got something you could post for me, if nobody has brought it up yet.

In the second dream, when voices are whispering Shepard's name, there's a voice I always took to be Wrex's. But listening to it again, it actually sounds a hell of a lot more like Harbinger.

This video:



At 0:34

Pretty sure that's Harbinger. If so, it's another thing that links the dreams to indoctrination.

Sounds like Wrex to me, or at least more like Wrex than Harbinger.

Someone should comment on that guys video asking him if Wrex died on Virmire in this playthrough. If he survived then it very well probably is Harbinger.

[RavenEyry]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Well, I just got a message from Priestly about why the IDT thread was locked, and yes, it was apparently because it was getting too large, he decided that since there was no chance that anyone would read through the whole thing, the discussion would continue elsewhere.

So what about "So we can't get the ending we want after all"?

That's not a detailed discussion with many valid points lost in the mire of thousands of pages. It's just the condensed "rage here instead of making new threads" thread.

[Icinix]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

New little discovery from our friend DoomsdayDevice.

DoomsdayDevice writes...

Okay, I got something you could post for me, if nobody has brought it up yet.

In the second dream, when voices are whispering Shepard's name, there's a voice I always took to be Wrex's. But listening to it again, it actually sounds a hell of a lot more like Harbinger.

This video:



At 0:34

Pretty sure that's Harbinger. If so, it's another thing that links the dreams to indoctrination.

Sounds like Wrex to me, or at least more like Wrex than Harbinger.

Definitely Wrex. What I did notice though, is just how utterly terrified the kid is of Shepard.

[Rifneno]

DJBare wrote...

And you know whats more interesting?, watch the cutscene, do you see any reaper wrecks?, I see wrecks of our own ships but non of the reapers.

Yep, I noticed that too.  The only damage we see the Reapers sustain from Sword is one capital ship losing a couple tentacles.  But we can totally beat them if we work together.  </sarcasm>

[Icinix]

Rifneno wrote...

DJBare wrote...

And you know whats more interesting?, watch the cutscene, do you see any reaper wrecks?, I see wrecks of our own ships but non of the reapers.

Yep, I noticed that too.  The only damage we see the Reapers sustain from Sword is one capital ship losing a couple tentacles.  But we can totally beat them if we work together.  </sarcasm>

I think thats more reference to the idea that to demoralise Shepard, you only see your fleet destroyed.

Regardless, the texturing, models and where they pop in are the sloppiest works in the whole game.

[Rifneno]

Icinix wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DJBare wrote...

And you know whats more interesting?, watch the cutscene, do you see any reaper wrecks?, I see wrecks of our own ships but non of the reapers.

Yep, I noticed that too.  The only damage we see the Reapers sustain from Sword is one capital ship losing a couple tentacles.  But we can totally beat them if we work together.  </sarcasm>

I think thats more reference to the idea that to demoralise Shepard, you only see your fleet destroyed.

Regardless, the texturing, models and where they pop in are the sloppiest works in the whole game.

Ahh.  Sorry guys, I misread it.  Didn't realize we were talking about the starbrat scene, thought it was the first Sword engagement fmv.  Needless to say, I'm still a bit... "skeptical" about the numerous claims that they can be beaten if we just <insert cliche here>.

[Uncle Jo]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I know some people see "Crucible" as Shepard's test, but (and I could be wrong here) I thought it was the alliance project directors that dubbed it "The Crucible" as in "a test/challenge for us to build". I'm not entirely sure since everyone and everything in the entire galaxy refers to it as the Crucible, The Illusive Man and the Prothean VI to name a couple.

Prothean VI on Thessia : "I'm called Vendetta [...] overseer of the project you refer to as "Crucible".

The Crucible could be understood either as "trial" (testing Shep's mental strenght to overcome the indoc attempt) or "test" for the allied forces (invest time and resources in a project which purpose is unknown, miraculously discovered in a time where the Galaxy seemed to need it the most)... Or both of them.

@DJBare and RIf
The scene where the Crucible attaches isn't when Shep is on the Citadel? If it's the case, then it's not real (from IT point of view)

Edit in the first cutscene of the Battle for Earth, the Reapers almost got no scratch in spite of the tremendous fire power of the Sword fleet.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 15 mai 2012 - 10:57 .

[Bounercz]

Im not sure if it was here (im lazy to read it all ) but when that child speaks about Synthesis which is just make husks from all ,look how he answer at Questin from Shepard: And will there be peace? he doesnt say Yes/no like at red or even blue i think he just say something totaly diferent : Synthesis is final stage of evolution ...what is this crap ? ...and that sentence : or if you THINK you can control us ...thats totaly saying that you CANT control them what was said like thousand time ingame ....And another thing,why it doesnt feel weir for Shepard that catalyst looks like that child? ...even in ME2 he asked Shiala why shes green ,

[Icinix]

Rifneno wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

DJBare wrote...

And you know whats more interesting?, watch the cutscene, do you see any reaper wrecks?, I see wrecks of our own ships but non of the reapers.

Yep, I noticed that too.  The only damage we see the Reapers sustain from Sword is one capital ship losing a couple tentacles.  But we can totally beat them if we work together.  </sarcasm>

I think thats more reference to the idea that to demoralise Shepard, you only see your fleet destroyed.

Regardless, the texturing, models and where they pop in are the sloppiest works in the whole game.

Ahh.  Sorry guys, I misread it.  Didn't realize we were talking about the starbrat scene, thought it was the first Sword engagement fmv.  Needless to say, I'm still a bit... "skeptical" about the numerous claims that they can be beaten if we just <insert cliche here>.

Haha. Wait no, I misread it. I thought it was about when we were on the cidatel with starchild. I'm an idiot. It even says cutscene there.

[elegolas1]

i'm glad the old thread got locked as it was incredibly hard to follow what was being discussed

anyway
it has been mentioned elsewhere on this crazy forum, possibly on the original thread, but in mass effect 1 immediately following eden prime, shepard wakes up and is asked if (s)he had a dream or something. when shepard answers, whispering and ominus music is heard. (someone suggested it said "assuming" but i don't know about that)

www.youtube.com/watch watch from about 1:10 (ignore the video title)

it isn't necessarily directly linked with IT but it's an interesting find

Modifié par elegolas1, 15 mai 2012 - 11:23 .

[Icinix]

elegolas1 wrote...

i'm glad the old thread got locked as it was incredibly hard to follow what was being discussed

anyway
it has been mentioned elsewhere on this crazy forum, possibly on the original thread, but in mass effect 1 immediately following eden prime, shepard wakes up and is asked if (s)he had a dream or something. when shepard answers, whispering and ominus music is heard. (someone suggested it said "assuming" but i don't know about that)

www.youtube.com/watch watch from about 1:10 (ignore the video title)

it isn't necessarily directly linked with IT but it's an interesting find

OH WOW! Id forgotten what dialogue choices looked like.

[Arian Dynas]

Bounercz wrote...

Im not sure if it was here (im lazy to read it all ) but when that child speaks about Synthesis which is just make husks from all ,look how he answer at Questin from Shepard: And will there be peace? he doesnt say Yes/no like at red or even blue i think he just say something totaly diferent : Synthesis is final stage of evolution ...what is this crap ? ...and that sentence : or if you THINK you can control us ...thats totaly saying that you CANT control them what was said like thousand time ingame ....And another thing,why it doesnt feel weir for Shepard that catalyst looks like that child? ...even in ME2 he asked Shiala why shes green ,

Considering the old thread was 2000+ pages, yeah don't talk to us about the thread being too long to read easily.

I've been around since page 200 and haven't read the whole thing.

[hoodaticus]

Shermos wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Shermos wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Shermos wrote...

I'll admit that my words have been too harsh toward those who are not ignorant by choice and I apologise all of you. Those who who do choose to remain ignorant however, need a kick in the pants and also need to be shown for what they are to those who might otherwise be swayed. I wouldn't call that trolling.

Noooo.... I wouldn't either, considering that what you are ACTUALLY doing is closer to being a pretientious coffee shop hipster sitting there, complaining about all the plebians whom aren't as "deep" and witty as you are, to understand this deep ending that means absolutely nothing.

It doesn't look like you bother to read my posts properly. At worst, you quote me out of context and straw man as above.

Whatever.
I've dismissed you by now, so say what you will.

And that's your problem. Choosing to remain ignorant.

If only we could all bask in the radiance of your light.