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[Rosewind]

byne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

4. Why Liara wasn't informed about Shepard's arrival on Marrs?

Yknow, I was thinking more about it.

How does this one even remotely point to indoctrination?

Is that what indoctrinated people do?

Set up surprise reunions for two separated lovers?

"When Liara sees her girlfriend, she'll be so happy! Just as the Reapers had planned!"

Are the Reapers a galactic matchmaking service now?

No cause I would be with vega

I was surprised there wasnt a Vega romance.

With the way my Shepard kept flirting with him without me telling her to, I totally expected one, since the last time she randomly flirted without me telling her to was whenever I talked to Jacob in ME2.

I reckon there was meant to be but they took it out in the last minute, there are defiantly the foundations for it.

[paxxton]

Check out my poll on Mass Effect 4.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 mai 2012 - 07:20 .

[Ytook]

@Corik
I would agree, however I do think that the Crucible has to be a reaper trap that they came to rely on after me1, along the lines that if you can build it then you are a threat to the reapers, and they use it to draw you into a killing field with false objectives and hope. It is the only way to make the reapers actions make sense, they wouldn't attack it while under construction, they would need us to have the citadel and then take it at the last moment so we rush into their trap, why the reapers didn't take the citadel somewhere we couldn't easily reach and why they simply didn't take control of the citadel and shut down the relay network when it was in their possession, it would also explain why the plans suddenly appear this far into the story. I'm not saying this is meant to be the case and will be in the EC it just seems to me to be the only way to explain why the reapers do what they do and don't do what they should throughout the game.

Edit: This was meant to follow on from the post about some theories going too far but I got distracted so it took me an age to write

Modifié par Ytook, 27 mai 2012 - 07:24 .

[lex0r11]

Rosewind wrote...

I love you Lex0r!!!

Stop making me emotio..
****, it's too late.


Aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww, come here!

*hug*
<3<3<3

Modifié par lex0r11, 27 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[Corik]

Ytook wrote...

@Corik
I would agree, however I do think that the Crucible has to be a reaper trap that they came to rely on after me1, along the lines that if you can build it then you are a threat to the reapers, and they use it to draw you into a killing field with false objectives and hope. It is the only way to make the reapers actions make sense, they wouldn't attack it while under construction, they would need us to have the citadel and then take it at the last moment so we rush into their trap, why the reapers didn't take the citadel somewhere we couldn't easily reach and why they simply didn't take control of the citadel and shut down the relay network when it was in their possession, it would also explain why the plans suddenly appear this far into the story. I'm not saying this is meant to be the case and will be in the EC it just seems to me to be the only way to explain why the reapers do what they do and don't do what they should throughout the game.

I think they act very "reaperish". They came to destroy organics. They don't have nothing more to do... and they were pretty effective. The data on mars was there before any reaper attacked. Seeing how some information survived the reaper cycles, is easy to think the crucible may be what the game told us to be. I mean... the reapers want to destroy organics no matter what. Making the crucible to see if a species could build it won't change that fact. They moved the citadel because Cerberus told them about the catalys and the crucible, and they saw that "maybe" their victory is not sure.

With this assumptions, the Indoctrination Theory makes sense, as a last line of defense against Shepard, who would make a extraordinary ally if indoctrinated. That's why Harbinger doesn't kill him... but everything is just a theory... any theory could be true.

[spotlessvoid]

My two single biggest issues with a face value view of the end are:
1. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Harbinger could miss Shepard or that Shepard could survive a laser blast. That laser absolutely crushed a Mako!
2. Starchilds logic. No, just no.

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 27 mai 2012 - 07:35 .

[Corik]

spotlessvoid wrote...

My two single biggest issues with a face value view of the end are:
1. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Harbinger could miss Shepard or that Shepard could survive a laser blast. That laser absolutely crushed a Mako!
2. Starchilds logic. No, just no.

I would add a 3rd one (for me, I mean):

There's no way Shepard could be abandoned by his friends.

[paxxton]

spotlessvoid wrote...

My two single biggest issues with a face value view of the end are:
1. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Harbinger could miss Shepard or that Shepard could survive a laser blast. That laser absolutely crushed a Mako!
2. Starchilds logic. No, just no.

1. VALID
2. DISMISSED

Modifié par paxxton, 27 mai 2012 - 07:56 .

[byne]

spotlessvoid wrote...

My two single biggest issues with a face value view of the end are:
1. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Harbinger could miss Shepard or that Shepard could survive a laser blast. That laser absolutely crushed a Mako!
2. Starchilds logic. No, just no.

The best part about the first one is that after you wake up from the laser blast and stand up, Harby just flies off.

Does a super advanced robot ship not have peripheral vision?

Does he have a strict 'One laser per customer' policy?

Is he late for a meeting?

Why the hell does he just fly off?

Even had he killed Shep with his laser, its not like she was the only human on Earth. The destroyer guarding the beam is dead, Harby should at least stick around until they get another ship to guard it.

[Ar7emis]

A lot of people seem to miss the renegade dialogue with TIM on the Citadel and I've not seen it come up in any IT videos. TIM says to Shepard, "I need you to believe". This single line in the context of the scene goes further to support the IT theory than the paragon dialogue - why does he need Shepard to believe in controlling the Reapers? Because he's going to end up broken, that's why.

[Corik]

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

My two single biggest issues with a face value view of the end are:
1. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Harbinger could miss Shepard or that Shepard could survive a laser blast. That laser absolutely crushed a Mako!
2. Starchilds logic. No, just no.

The best part about the first one is that after you wake up from the laser blast and stand up, Harby just flies off.

Does a super advanced robot ship not have peripheral vision?

Does he have a strict 'One laser per customer' policy?

Is he late for a meeting?

Why the hell does he just fly off?

Even had he killed Shep with his laser, its not like she was the only human on Earth. The destroyer guarding the beam is dead, Harby should at least stick around until they get another ship to guard it.

That's what I wanted to say some pages earlier, the evidences for IT are pretty easy to spot and notice. Those things you see and inmediately say "what the... this doesn't make sense!"

[Big G13]

dreamgazer wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

Maybe it'll hearten your spirits too?


Edit: Hope this shameless act of self-promotion is forgiveable...

Great work. (thumbs up)  I mentioned in a thread recently that I picture the Reapers performing in a Blue Oyster Cult cover band and operating a microbrewery in their cycle off-time. 

That vid was awesome! 
p.s. More cowbell. It needs more cowbell.

[Corik]

Ar7emis wrote...

A lot of people seem to miss the renegade dialogue with TIM on the Citadel and I've not seen it come up in any IT videos. TIM says to Shepard, "I need you to believe". This single line in the context of the scene goes further to support the IT theory than the paragon dialogue - why does he need Shepard to believe in controlling the Reapers? Because he's going to end up broken, that's why.

That's very interesting because it shows a total change of mind for TIM. He always said he didn't need anyone to believe him. If TIM says on the citadel that he needs Sheapard to believe him... Again another thing which doesn't make sense and breaks with 2 games of TIM superiority and independence.

[Big G13]

byne wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

My two single biggest issues with a face value view of the end are:
1. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Harbinger could miss Shepard or that Shepard could survive a laser blast. That laser absolutely crushed a Mako!
2. Starchilds logic. No, just no.

The best part about the first one is that after you wake up from the laser blast and stand up, Harby just flies off.

Does a super advanced robot ship not have peripheral vision?

Does he have a strict 'One laser per customer' policy?

Is he late for a meeting?

Why the hell does he just fly off?

Even had he killed Shep with his laser, its not like she was the only human on Earth. The destroyer guarding the beam is dead, Harby should at least stick around until they get another ship to guard it.

There was a dating service emergency in the Terminus system.

[Rosewind]

lex0r11 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

I love you Lex0r!!!

Stop making me emotio..
****, it's too late.


Aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww, come here!

*hug*
<3<3<3

*Giggle* *Hugs back*

Anyway I am off to bed night all, constant vigilance!!!

[spotlessvoid]

Also if the ending is real, then TIM is indoctrinated.

I know this has been brought up, but how can TIM control Shepard while the Reapers can't? Even the literal ending involves some degree of Shepard facing an indoctrination attempt.

My opinion is that either everything post beam is a hallucination OR

TIM was an indoctrination attempt by proxy. After that fails, starbinger attempts to assume direct control

[Ar7emis]

Corik wrote...

Ar7emis wrote...

A lot of people seem to miss the renegade dialogue with TIM on the Citadel and I've not seen it come up in any IT videos. TIM says to Shepard, "I need you to believe". This single line in the context of the scene goes further to support the IT theory than the paragon dialogue - why does he need Shepard to believe in controlling the Reapers? Because he's going to end up broken, that's why.

That's very interesting because it shows a total change of mind for TIM. He always said he didn't need anyone to believe him. If TIM says on the citadel that he needs Sheapard to believe him... Again another thing which doesn't make sense and breaks with 2 games of TIM superiority and independence.

Indeed. He literally JUST told Shepard at Kronos Station that he's done with Shepard and the rest of the game is him telling Shepard not to interfere with his plans and that these things are all beyond him. Why, all of a sudden, is he saying he NEEDS Shepard to believe if not for the purposes of leading him to his doom with indoctrination?

To me at least, this line cannot make sense in any context other than supporting the IT.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

4) How was Hackett supposed to know that Liara was there? Also, Liara was being chased by Cerberus who were there some time before shepard.

I agree with most of your points in that list, Epyon, except for this one.

How is Hackett supposed to know Liara is there?

Did you just straight up forget that he's the one who asked her to investigate the archives in the first place?

Guess I missed that part lol.

[boeloe]

What really got me, was how two of the three end choices correspond to the 2 previous baddies. Control -> Illusive Man; Synthesis -> Saren. And how easily I had forgotten that fact when I had to make that choice on my first playthrough. (I failed, I choose synthesis, because I didn't want EDI to die ). That is what I really find awesome about IDT, that on your first playthrough how easily you are swayed from the path. I mean the entire game you are trying to destroy the reapers and 5 minutes before the end you decide to change the course. It basically feels like a big social experiment te me.

[Corik]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Also if the ending is real, then TIM is indoctrinated.

I know this has been brought up, but how can TIM control Shepard while the Reapers can't? Even the literal ending involves some degree of Shepard facing an indoctrination attempt.

My opinion is that either everything post beam is a hallucination OR

TIM was an indoctrination attempt by proxy. After that fails, starbinger attempts to assume direct control

We must remember that even Saren (a fully indoctrinated guy) couldn't control anyone. Those powers showed by TIM are like "magic". There was no biotic field blocking their movements, they simply were paralized. There's no way that could happen. It's impossible.

No one did that before, even when a real reaper assumed control of others (Saren/Sovereign; Collectors/Harbinger). This supports a lot the idea of a hallucination.

[spotlessvoid]

@corik

Certainly seems like it

[MaximizedAction]

Ar7emis wrote...

Corik wrote...

Ar7emis wrote...

A lot of people seem to miss the renegade dialogue with TIM on the Citadel and I've not seen it come up in any IT videos. TIM says to Shepard, "I need you to believe". This single line in the context of the scene goes further to support the IT theory than the paragon dialogue - why does he need Shepard to believe in controlling the Reapers? Because he's going to end up broken, that's why.

That's very interesting because it shows a total change of mind for TIM. He always said he didn't need anyone to believe him. If TIM says on the citadel that he needs Sheapard to believe him... Again another thing which doesn't make sense and breaks with 2 games of TIM superiority and independence.

Indeed. He literally JUST told Shepard at Kronos Station that he's done with Shepard and the rest of the game is him telling Shepard not to interfere with his plans and that these things are all beyond him. Why, all of a sudden, is he saying he NEEDS Shepard to believe if not for the purposes of leading him to his doom with indoctrination?

To me at least, this line cannot make sense in any context other than supporting the IT.

In the that dialog TIM doesn't seem like the TIM on Cronos station. It could be of course a TIM who's under heavy Reaper indoc. And the Reapers use him to soften up Shepard for successful indoctrination.
But then again, the development from the projection on Cronos (the TIM we know) to that thing on the Citadel seems like quite the leap.

It would make sense that one of the two TIM's in not real at the respective scene.

[EpyonX3]

Sorry I have to post this.

[Corik]

Right now I'm feeling weird. There are a lot of evidences pointing towards some kind of hallucination/dream... But everything depends on Bioware. I wish we could have some kind of confirmation...

[EpyonX3]

Anyway back to the blood.

As TIM walks in



Already his blood is more detailed than before.


After Shepard shoots Anderson




At the control Panel after TIM dies



During Anderson and Shepard's Bro Moment



After Anderson Dies



You guys decide what's going on here.