55528 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

Bill Casey wrote...

Noticed one of the few objects in Shepard's cell besides his bed...

*snip*

The Water Cooler tried to warn us... BUT WE DIDN'T LISTEN!!!

I like how the Alliance gave Shep a water cooler, but apparently none of those little paper cups.

[boeloe]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The one thing I don't understand is why TIM shows Shepard the power of the Reapers by making him shoot his friend. It should make Shepard resist TIM's persuasion easier.

"Look! To show you control is always the best idea, and that nothing bad will happen, I will make you shoot one of your best friends!"

*bang*

"See! Control is all unicorns and rainbows!"

TIM isnt really good at the whole persuasion thing...

Gotta agree. He was really good at it in ME2. He did a 180 in ME3. Maybe the effects of Indoctrination.

More like a 90 degree. His goals haven't changed (humans on top), only the means to achieve it. (control instead of destroy). TIM was always evil to me.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Noticed one of the few objects in Shepard's cell besides his bed...

*snip*

The Water Cooler tried to warn us... BUT WE DIDN'T LISTEN!!!

I like how the Alliance gave Shep a water cooler, but apparently none of those little paper cups.

He had to be punished for killing all of the batarians somehow?

[TJBartlemus]

The fact that at the end of Mass Effect 3 gives you choices at the end seems anti-climactic to me. You spend all this time to get here and no matter what you do in the game you still get these three choices. (not adding fact that if low score and save collector base = control)

I could see it make sense if they had a Darth Vader to Luke like scene, where star child is like you can join us and if you refuse you have like a final battle for the destruction of the reapers. (or control but it would turn on you and you lose)

No instead they give us an ending where you choose what you think would do the galaxy the best good, and hope for the best. Like diffusing a bomb. Which wire will diffuse it and stop it from blowing up in your face?

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 27 mai 2012 - 08:44 .

[Lord Goose]

Maybe that already was brought up in the topic, but we have no evidence that indoctrination even works in that way as IT describes. Normally, a person would be hearing voices, which would make him obey Reapers. No subtly manipulations and deceptions.

[MegumiAzusa]

boeloe wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The one thing I don't understand is why TIM shows Shepard the power of the Reapers by making him shoot his friend. It should make Shepard resist TIM's persuasion easier.

"Look! To show you control is always the best idea, and that nothing bad will happen, I will make you shoot one of your best friends!"

*bang*

"See! Control is all unicorns and rainbows!"

TIM isnt really good at the whole persuasion thing...

Gotta agree. He was really good at it in ME2. He did a 180 in ME3. Maybe the effects of Indoctrination.

More like a 90 degree. His goals haven't changed (humans on top), only the means to achieve it. (control instead of destroy). TIM was always evil to me.

Even in ME2 he never wanted to destroy the Reapers but control them.

[Bill Casey]

Lord Goose wrote...

Maybe that already was brought up in the topic, but we have no evidence that indoctrination even works in that way as IT describes. Normally, a person would be hearing voices, which would make him obey Reapers. No subtly manipulations and deceptions.

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

[EpyonX3]

boeloe wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The one thing I don't understand is why TIM shows Shepard the power of the Reapers by making him shoot his friend. It should make Shepard resist TIM's persuasion easier.

"Look! To show you control is always the best idea, and that nothing bad will happen, I will make you shoot one of your best friends!"

*bang*

"See! Control is all unicorns and rainbows!"

TIM isnt really good at the whole persuasion thing...

Gotta agree. He was really good at it in ME2. He did a 180 in ME3. Maybe the effects of Indoctrination.

More like a 90 degree. His goals haven't changed (humans on top), only the means to achieve it. (control instead of destroy). TIM was always evil to me.

I disagree slightly. TIM went from Humans on top to TIM on top. He approved sanctuary, implanted occular flashbangs in his soldiers, forced them to follow him and risked earth itself to achieve his golas of ruling all.

So if not a 180 at least 150.

[EpyonX3]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sorry I have to post this.

Certainly nothing that is in the decision thingy. Btw if you use that how about uploading it in full size so it's easier to see?

I thought I did. Let me try again.


i45.tinypic.com/ax1biq.png

In case you guys didn't see the edit.

[byne]

boeloe wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The one thing I don't understand is why TIM shows Shepard the power of the Reapers by making him shoot his friend. It should make Shepard resist TIM's persuasion easier.

"Look! To show you control is always the best idea, and that nothing bad will happen, I will make you shoot one of your best friends!"

*bang*

"See! Control is all unicorns and rainbows!"

TIM isnt really good at the whole persuasion thing...

Gotta agree. He was really good at it in ME2. He did a 180 in ME3. Maybe the effects of Indoctrination.

More like a 90 degree. His goals haven't changed (humans on top), only the means to achieve it. (control instead of destroy). TIM was always evil to me.

Except destroy was never what TIM wanted. Why do you think he was in favor of keeping the Collector Base in ME2?

Which is coincidentally ME2's blue explosion ending, whereas blowing it up is the red explosion ending.

Also coincidentally, changing the geth heretics on a fundamental level so that there will be peace between them and the true geth is a green explosion

[Corik]

Lord Goose wrote...

Maybe that already was brought up in the topic, but we have no evidence that indoctrination even works in that way as IT describes. Normally, a person would be hearing voices, which would make him obey Reapers. No subtly manipulations and deceptions.

But we must remember if IT is true, Shepard is unconscious in London. So Harbinger is just messing with his mind. Maybe that wouldn't work if someone is awake. So basically is Shepards head which is constructing the scenario, not harbinger, but Harbinger is the one speaking to Shepard in his mind while he's hallucinating.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...



implanted occular flashbangs in his soldiers

To be fair the ocular nerve flashbangs were just an upgrade to the cyanide capsules all Cerberus employees had in their molars in ME2.

Plus it was Mordin's idea anyways.

[Lord Goose]

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

None of them tried to trick anybody into submission. Reapers are not subtle, they just command people to obey.

[Corik]

Lord Goose wrote...

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

None of them tried to trick anybody into submission. Reapers are not subtle, they just command people to obey.

Still they need to break their willpower. And Shepard's willpower is HUGE.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...



implanted occular flashbangs in his soldiers

To be fair the ocular nerve flashbangs were just an upgrade to the cyanide capsules all Cerberus employees had in their molars in ME2.

Plus it was Mordin's idea anyways.

I rember that clip. And yeah Cyanide capsules are pretty extreme.

[byne]

Lord Goose wrote...

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

None of them tried to trick anybody into submission. Reapers are not subtle, they just command people to obey.

Except Kenson ordered the project stopped not because she was ordered to, but because the indoctrination convinced her that it is foolish to assume the Reapers mean doom for the galaxy.

She stopped the project because indoctrination caused her to believe the project was wrong, not because the Reapers told her to.

[MegumiAzusa]

EpyonX3 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sorry I have to post this.

Certainly nothing that is in the decision thingy. Btw if you use that how about uploading it in full size so it's easier to see?

I thought I did. Let me try again.


i45.tinypic.com/ax1biq.png

In case you guys didn't see the edit.

Still not full size and your compression makes the image even more blurry.

[llbountyhunter]

Bill Casey wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Maybe that already was brought up in the topic, but we have no evidence that indoctrination even works in that way as IT describes. Normally, a person would be hearing voices, which would make him obey Reapers. No subtly manipulations and deceptions.

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

"vision" were also revealed as a indoctrination effect when aboard the derelict reaper....


yeah we have NO evidence here...

 

[Lord Goose]

But we must remember if IT is true, Shepard is unconscious in London. So Harbinger is just messing with his mind.

Reapers doesn't usually try to mess with anybody mind. They just make people obey by giving them orders.

[MaximizedAction]

Corik wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

None of them tried to trick anybody into submission. Reapers are not subtle, they just command people to obey.

Still they need to break their willpower. And Shepard's willpower is HUGE.

This.

Also, getting the player to feel what Shepard feels isn't accomplished by "Shepard, join us and we will rule organics together!".
That is would be cheesy and wouldn't feel realistic to the player (just as the kid that everyone thought was supposed to make the player care). ME is much more mature and is supposed to be interactive, hence, getting the player indoctrinated (which I believe was the goal) is much harder to accomplish.

Therefore, subtlety is absolutely necessary.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 27 mai 2012 - 08:57 .

[llbountyhunter]

Lord Goose wrote...

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

None of them tried to trick anybody into submission. Reapers are not subtle, they just command people to obey.

actaully the reapers ARE sublte, maybe not the others watching the subject, but to the subject himself it is. saren and dr. quin didnt notice themselfs become indoctrinated, it happened slowly over time.

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sorry I have to post this.

Certainly nothing that is in the decision thingy. Btw if you use that how about uploading it in full size so it's easier to see?

I thought I did. Let me try again.


i45.tinypic.com/ax1biq.png

In case you guys didn't see the edit.

Still not full size and your compression makes the image even more blurry.

That's odd. I didn't even change the resolution of the picture. What do you use to upload pictures?

[TJBartlemus]

Corik wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Arrival DLC has reapers invading dreams...

None of them tried to trick anybody into submission. Reapers are not subtle, they just command people to obey.

Still they need to break their willpower. And Shepard's willpower is HUGE.

I have to agree. It would be no easy task to indoctrinate shepard. Besides if they just straight up indoctrinated him what would that do? Sure it would stop the Alliance for a while but  hta would make shepard a martyr. Then they would get a new icon like one of shepards friends. No they would need someone in a leadership role that they could subtly influence to make decisions that would help the Reapers.

I also posted this earlier....

"The fact that at the end of Mass Effect 3 gives you choices at the end
seems anti-climactic to me. You spend all this time to get here and no
matter what you do in the game you still get these three choices. (not
adding fact that if low score and save collector base = control)

I
could see it make sense if they had a Darth Vader to Luke like scene,
where star child is like you can join us and if you refuse you have like
a final battle for the destruction of the reapers. (or control but it
would turn on you and you lose)

No instead they give us an ending
where you choose what you think would do the galaxy the best good, and
hope for the best. Like diffusing a bomb. Which wire will diffuse it and
stop it from blowing up in your face?"

[byne]

Lord Goose wrote...

But we must remember if IT is true, Shepard is unconscious in London. So Harbinger is just messing with his mind.

Reapers doesn't usually try to mess with anybody mind. They just make people obey by giving them orders.

Except for the fact that you're wrong.

In addition to my Kenson example earlier, both Saren and TIM thought they were fully in control until the end of ME1 and ME3 respectively. They werent being obedient little Reaper puppets as far as they were concerned. They were doing what was best for the galaxy.

[Lord Goose]

Still they need to break their willpower.

Yes, and?
None of the options is about "submitting to Reapers". Even Synthesis.