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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#751
RavenEyry

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elegolas1 wrote...

i'm glad the old thread got locked as it was incredibly hard to follow what was being discussed

anyway
it has been mentioned elsewhere on this crazy forum, possibly on the original thread, but in mass effect 1 immediately following eden prime, shepard wakes up and is asked if (s)he had a dream or something. when shepard answers, whispering and ominus music is heard. (someone suggested it said "assuming" but i don't know about that)

www.youtube.com/watch watch from about 1:10 (ignore the video title)

it isn't necessarily directly linked with IT but it's an interesting find


That whispering has always been there when Shep is thinking about the vision, but I never really listened to it before. Part of it does sound eerily like 'assuming control'. Probably means Drew had Harby planned from the start, but doesn't necessarily relate to IT.

#752
mybudgee

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I agree. The IT Doc was excellent (nice work Ownaholic) and Shep was definitely brainwashed OFFICIALLY starting in Arrival..

Modifié par mybudgee, 15 mai 2012 - 11:57 .


#753
Arian Dynas

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Another question from Midian3

midian3 writes...
Hi. I can`t post in campaign thread, so i thought maybe you can post my question to all you fine folks in IT thread.

During the dream sequences there is a reaper-like sound and then the ghost kid runs away from Shep ( at 0.17) but to me it clearly sound like like the inception sound (http://inception.davepedu.com/ for reference)
So my question is - maybe the dreams are Bioware reaper indoctrination + Nolans "Inception"?

I just can`t think any other explanations to that sound being there. But i remember several tweets from Bioware two months ago (can`t remember exactly who) speciffically mentioning the ending of Inception and ME3.
Or maybe it was a analogy for "speculation from everyone".



#754
Arian Dynas

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mybudgee wrote...

I agree. The IT Doc was excellent and Shep was definitely brainwashed OFFICIALLY starting in Arrival..


Arrival is also considered canon, according to the comics penned by guess who? Casey Hudson.

#755
Rifneno

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Arian Dynas wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

I agree. The IT Doc was excellent and Shep was definitely brainwashed OFFICIALLY starting in Arrival..


Arrival is also considered canon, according to the comics penned by guess who? Casey Hudson.


What are you still talking about?  Don't you know when to give up?  random internet guy 745389-F told us IT isn't true.  So clearly it isn't.  Pack it up, omg.

#756
RavenEyry

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Rifneno wrote...

What are you still talking about?  Don't you know when to give up?  random internet guy 745389-F told us IT isn't true.  So clearly it isn't.  Pack it up, omg.


Yeah, that Shermos chap is smarter than all of us. I know because he said so. Even though his first post disproved his own point...

#757
kkr

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bump

#758
Destructorlio

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 Hey guys,

Like many others I was gutted to see our awesome thread shut down- such an achievement! However I do think it was getting a little bloated and OT (I would trawl for PAGES before finding relevant IT content) so hopefully this thread will be a little cleaner and we can not start going OT or succumbing to trolls (and I thumb my nose at the guy who got the last thread shut down- seriously).

Just to reiterate- I am a total believer in IT. I believe it was planned specifically by Bioware and that EC will bear the theory out and I've laid money down on this bet- I would bet my life savings on it.

Anyway, I have a crazy, totally unfounded theory that springs out of IT, inspired by the following factors:

1. There have been rumours going around of a new MP class called 'Pheonix'. Because the Javik dlc was called 'From Ashes', people have naturally been connecting this class to Protheans, but this makes no sense, since Javik is the only Prothean.
2. Collectors seem 'different' from other Reaper forms. They are, as Liara says 'indoctrinated Protheans'- not Reaper-form Protheans (the Reaper-form Prothean failed)
3. Someone posted in the old thread about a theory that perhaps in the previous cycle the Protheans did create the crucible, and whoever-the-Prothean-equivalent-of-Shepard was got onto the Crucible and again had to make the choice- but they made the wrong choice (control, as Javik indicated there was a group trying to do).
4. A lot of people have been asking: If IT is true, then what does the Crucible actually do?

My theory kind of ties all of these elements together. What if the Crucible is a sort of mass-indoctrination device? What is that was the downfall of the Protheans- that when the device was activated, it actually indoctrinated the Prothean race and was the origin of the Collectors?

Now, skip to the EC: Shepard awakes, gets back to the Crucible. Triggers the device but somehow reverses the polarity (as you do), so that every indoctrinated person becomes un-indoctrinated. You know what you've got then? Every Collector becomes a Prothean again (or, at least, a cybernetically-enhanced Protehan). The Prothean race is born again- like a Pheonix from the ashes. So the MP actually ties into the SP- the Protheans are reintroduced in the campaign and then they are available in MP. 

Anyway as I said this it purely speculation and has a lot of problems (like why would the Protheans be fighting the Reaper in MP if you defeat the Reapers in the SP?), but a fun theory nonetheless- would welcome thoughts.

#759
estebanus

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I found something pretty interesting about the carnifex, but I'm not sure if it really helps in any way.

As we know, the carnifex appears in ME3 when something bad is about to happen, for example wehn you shoot Mordin, or when you kill Wrex. Hell, even Ashley/Kaidan wield a carnifex when you meet them on the citadel!

So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word.
And guess what that word means?

It means "Executioner."

So my thoughts are, that the Carnifex only appears in those places where someone is "executed!"
Maybe that's why the predator and carnifex are loaded in the "destroy" ending! Because you "Execute" the reapers, while still holding on to your own goal!

#760
estebanus

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This thread is awfully quiet right now...

#761
nightcobra

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snip

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 15 mai 2012 - 04:05 .


#762
SixG90

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 R.I.P. dear old thread :crying: ok guys, we need to rebuild NOW!!
Spread the IT love <3
ps: Did I miss something new?

#763
Stigweird85

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30 pages in 24 hours, I really want to join in the discussion and add something but everytime I read a post that is worth commenting on someone beats me to it - Stupid time difference,

Anyway hope everyone made it over to the new thread okay, there is enough hate out there it's good to have a somewhat safe and accepting thread

Anyway, I'm not a 100% supporter of IT or rather I'm not fully behind absolutely everything that has been given as possible evidence. That being said I am happy accepting it as a reasonable explination, although I didn't have that big an issue with the literal ending (maybe because I opted for destroy and got the good ending)

In some regard I think we are in danger of not being able to see the forest due to the trees. For example it is interesting to see what a particular file type is called and to discuss if assets are resused or not but as evidence either for or against seems a little weak. Names mean everything or nothing it could imply original intention or it could just be the internal name used to organise things while in development. After all Mass Effect itself had the code name SFX so does that mean that anything that is called SFX related to the events of Mass Effect 1?

I'm also torn about the use of flycam to see what would normally be hidden from the player, I know that the team have discussed using techniques that aren't exactly traditional so it could be argued that Bioware expected players to disect assets in such a fashion and use tools such as flycam to see what isn't there. However as Mass Effect was originally an xbox exclusive then it would seem a little unfair to shift focus onto clues that could only be found by a portion of the audience who couldn't have been with the franchise from the start.

I suspect some people are taking all "evidence" presented as absolute proof in support of IT rather look at it from an unbiased perspective.

I know I've kind of rambled here, so I'll end with this, I still Trust Bioware and I'm sure that that EC will not leave anybody disappointed whether you belive in IT or not as more Mass Effect SP content can only be a good thing

#764
estebanus

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mrs.N7 wrote...

 R.I.P. dear old thread :crying: ok guys, we need to rebuild NOW!!
Spread the IT love <3
ps: Did I miss something new?



Apparently, the carnifex which you have during the whole ending sequence switches to the predator during the end of hte "destroy" cutscene, right before the tube explodes.

#765
Naseilen

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estebanus wrote...
So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word.
And guess what that word means?

It means "Executioner."


Carnifex in Polish version was translated as "Kat" which, exactly, means executioner. Whops, I feel guilty now, I should mention this earlier.

#766
estebanus

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Naseilen wrote...

estebanus wrote...
So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word.
And guess what that word means?

It means "Executioner."


Carnifex in Polish version was translated as "Kat" which, exactly, means executioner. Whops, I feel guilty now, I should mention this earlier.



Kinda weird, right?

#767
Stigweird85

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Naseilen wrote...

estebanus wrote...
So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word.
And guess what that word means?

It means "Executioner."


Carnifex in Polish version was translated as "Kat" which, exactly, means executioner. Whops, I feel guilty now, I should mention this earlier.


Kat means executioner in Polish? Live and learn.

Interesting though, why translate Carnifex which has no current meaning in English to the same Latin meaning in Polish? You would expect that as Carnifex is essentially a brand on gun in game then you would expect it to transcend languages like Coke or Pepsi

Modifié par bigstig, 15 mai 2012 - 02:40 .


#768
estebanus

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bigstig wrote...

Naseilen wrote...

estebanus wrote...
So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word.
And guess what that word means?

It means "Executioner."


Carnifex in Polish version was translated as "Kat" which, exactly, means executioner. Whops, I feel guilty now, I should mention this earlier.


Kat means executioner in Polish? Live and learn.

Interesting though, why translate Carnifex which has no current meaning in English to the same Latin meaning in Polish? You would expect that as Carnifex is essentially a brand on gun in game then you would expect it to transcend languages like Coke or Pepsi



That's why I think it's weird!

#769
ForumHelper

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I really want IT to be true! Maybe this was BioWare's plan after all? To shock and make us angry, then release EC, with the real ending?

#770
string3r

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Why doesn't the Prothean VI on Thessia detect Shepard as being indoctrinated?

#771
Naseilen

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estebanus wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Naseilen wrote...

estebanus wrote...
So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word.
And guess what that word means?

It means "Executioner."


Carnifex in Polish version was translated as "Kat" which, exactly, means executioner. Whops, I feel guilty now, I should mention this earlier.


Kat means executioner in Polish? Live and learn.

Interesting though, why translate Carnifex which has no current meaning in English to the same Latin meaning in Polish? You would expect that as Carnifex is essentially a brand on gun in game then you would expect it to transcend languages like Coke or Pepsi



That's why I think it's weird!


Well, the same translation was used in Mass Effect 2, maybe localization team was ambitious to translate everything on their way. ;)

Modifié par Naseilen, 15 mai 2012 - 03:03 .


#772
SS2Dante

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string3r wrote...

Why doesn't the Prothean VI on Thessia detect Shepard as being indoctrinated?


Because Shepards not indoctrinated. That only happens if you pick Blue or Green.

Also, the Protheans were brought down from inside by indoctrinated sleeper agents. So clearly their VI's could only sense MAJOR indoctrination.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 15 mai 2012 - 03:03 .


#773
Tirian Thorn

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string3r wrote...

Why doesn't the Prothean VI on Thessia detect Shepard as being indoctrinated?



That is a good question; however, it is has been asked nearly once per day. 

My answer is this:

At that point, Shepard is undergoing indoctrination, while Kai Leng is fully indoctrinated. 

The Prothean VI’s do not appear to work perfectly in indoctrination detection because as Javik mentions, they were infiltrated on multiple occasions. 

#774
estebanus

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string3r wrote...

Why doesn't the Prothean VI on Thessia detect Shepard as being indoctrinated?



Because Shepard isn't indoctrinated, s/he is UNDERGOING indoctrination, but s/he hasn't actually been indoctrinated yet.

Also, prothean VI's were not 100% foolproof. Javik and vigil themselves say that the protheans were eventually destroyed because of indoctrinated slleper agents.

#775
estebanus

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Naseilen wrote...

estebanus wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Naseilen wrote...

estebanus wrote...
So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word.
And guess what that word means?

It means "Executioner."


Carnifex in Polish version was translated as "Kat" which, exactly, means executioner. Whops, I feel guilty now, I should mention this earlier.


Kat means executioner in Polish? Live and learn.

Interesting though, why translate Carnifex which has no current meaning in English to the same Latin meaning in Polish? You would expect that as Carnifex is essentially a brand on gun in game then you would expect it to transcend languages like Coke or Pepsi



That's why I think it's weird!


Well, the same translation was used in Mass Effect 2, maybe localization team was ambitious to translate everything on their way. ;)




Well, the fact still remains that carnifex is the latin word for executioner.