55528 réponses à ce sujet

[EpyonX3]

DJBare wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

There should be blood all down Shepard's right arm from the shoulder wound, interestingly according to this screen shot and the blood on the back of the shoulder, the bullet passed through Shepard's shoulder, s/he should not even be able to wield a weapon in that hand, yet continues to do so.

*image snip*

6 trillion dollar man!


But seriously, we must remember that we're playing a video game. How many times have your shields gone down and was shot or punched to an inch of your life, only to bounce right back after some medigel?

I knew that would be the response, so why not have Marauder shields shoot Shepard in the left shoulder?, then there would be no question.

No question of what?

[MegumiAzusa]

Lord Goose wrote...

No it's not, it's immoral but logic has
nothing to do with morality.

It the same thing as Reapers doing. They are destroying civilizations just to make sure that they wouldn't create AI which would destroy all organic life. It is illogical to assume that among number of possibilities worst will happen. Sort of like Prisoners dilemma, I think.

It is not illogical. If it's a possibility and you have unlimited time it will happen.
Also again you argue with morality. A dilemma doesn't exist for logic, a dilemma is completely based on morality.

[estebanus]

Lord Goose wrote...

I always thought Synthesis was an
attempt at a middle ground.

Well, Synthesis is rational, since it solves both problems: Reapers would stop and no one would die, but amoral to the level of playing god.

But are the moral implications of choosing synthesis really a price you are willing to pay?

If that was the case, destroy would also be a good solution, since it destroys the reapers permanently. There is no chance of them returning.

[Big Bad]

Lord Goose wrote...

When it comes
to the catalyst, my money is on B.

Do not attribute malice to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?)

Wait, you're telling me that the catalyst has orchestrated the brutal murder of trillions of trillions of sentient beings...because he's a ******?  And you're going to choose to trust this person?

edit:  BTW, the last sentence should be read in Morgan Freeman's voice (TDK)! 

Modifié par Big Bad, 28 mai 2012 - 12:33 .

[estebanus]

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

There should be blood all down Shepard's right arm from the shoulder wound, interestingly according to this screen shot and the blood on the back of the shoulder, the bullet passed through Shepard's shoulder, s/he should not even be able to wield a weapon in that hand, yet continues to do so.

*image snip*

6 trillion dollar man!


But seriously, we must remember that we're playing a video game. How many times have your shields gone down and was shot or punched to an inch of your life, only to bounce right back after some medigel?

I knew that would be the response, so why not have Marauder shields shoot Shepard in the left shoulder?, then there would be no question.

No question of what?

Why Shepard would be capable of still holding the carnifex.

[estebanus]

Big Bad wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

When it comes
to the catalyst, my money is on B.

Do not attribute malice to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?)

Wait, you're telling me that the catalyst has orchestrated the brutal murder of trillions of trillions of sentient beings...because he's a ******?  And you're going to choose to trust this person?

Yeah... That sounds like something an idiot would do...

Modifié par estebanus, 28 mai 2012 - 12:28 .

[EpyonX3]

estebanus wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

There should be blood all down Shepard's right arm from the shoulder wound, interestingly according to this screen shot and the blood on the back of the shoulder, the bullet passed through Shepard's shoulder, s/he should not even be able to wield a weapon in that hand, yet continues to do so.

*image snip*

6 trillion dollar man!


But seriously, we must remember that we're playing a video game. How many times have your shields gone down and was shot or punched to an inch of your life, only to bounce right back after some medigel?

I knew that would be the response, so why not have Marauder shields shoot Shepard in the left shoulder?, then there would be no question.

No question of what?

Why Shepard would be capable of still holding the carnifex.

I don't know.

[estebanus]

EpyonX3 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

There should be blood all down Shepard's right arm from the shoulder wound, interestingly according to this screen shot and the blood on the back of the shoulder, the bullet passed through Shepard's shoulder, s/he should not even be able to wield a weapon in that hand, yet continues to do so.

*image snip*

6 trillion dollar man!


But seriously, we must remember that we're playing a video game. How many times have your shields gone down and was shot or punched to an inch of your life, only to bounce right back after some medigel?

I knew that would be the response, so why not have Marauder shields shoot Shepard in the left shoulder?, then there would be no question.

No question of what?

Why Shepard would be capable of still holding the carnifex.

I don't know.

Uhhh... I was just answering your question...

[Destructorlio]

Corik wrote...

Right now I'm feeling weird. There are a lot of evidences pointing towards some kind of hallucination/dream... But everything depends on Bioware. I wish we could have some kind of confirmation...

They are keeping extremely stum about it, which actually kind of points towards IT (if they didn't want to spoil the surprise, they'd be promoting the hell out of the EC in interviews and articles). The only way we'll get confirmation before the EC is via leaks, possibly from VO artists or from within the studio. They can't voluntarily confirm it before release or that will ruin the whole thing.

Lord Goose wrote...

Maybe that already was brought up in the topic, but we have no evidence that indoctrination even works in that way as IT describes. Normally, a person would be hearing voices, which would make him obey Reapers. No subtly manipulations and deceptions.

 

Actually every conceivable angle on IT has been bought up and discussed about a billion times, including this one. Dreams and hallucinations are canonical manifestations of indoctrination in the Mass Effect games. This is utterly inarguable. It happens on the Collector ship. It happens in The Arrival. 

Bioware had to come up with a way to indoctrinate you without SAYING you are being indoctrinated. Now imagine you had this task- how would you go about it?

Lord Goose wrote...

Indoctrinated are slaves to the Reapers. They didn't choose to became their slaves because Reapers tricked them. They may have illussion of free will if they're valuable, but they can't resist indoctrination their masters in any way rather than suicide. If they don't want to be indoctrinated, they can only stay away from their tech.

While IT goes on assumption that Reapers to need some sort of permission from Shepard to indoctrinate him.

I see what you're saying, and yes, Shepard's experience does seem to offer a 'choice' not to be indoctrinated, which seems like, if you've got a choice, why does anyone get indotrinated. But Benezia and Saren both said they were not instantly controlled, they were slowly convinced of the rightness of the Reaper cause. And look at you now, arguing for the control option. Can you not see that what they described is exactly what happened- not just to Shepard, but to you?

Lord Goose wrote...

Personally, my Shepard choose Control ONLY because destroy ending reminded him about Han'Gerrel. Admiral was willing to sacrifice him and his squad in order to weaken the geth, and sacrificing geth and EDI would be the same thing. He may have done it if there were no other option, though.

 

Listen to yourself! You're indoctrinated!

[Lord Goose]

A
dilemma doesn't exist for logic, a
dilemma is completely based on morality.

It is impossible say that synthetic life wiping out organics is really possible. So it is illogical to assume that it would eventually happen. But Catalyst assumes it for some reason.

[UrgedDuke]

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

When it comes
to the catalyst, my money is on B.

Do not attribute malice to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?)

Wait, you're telling me that the catalyst has orchestrated the brutal murder of trillions of trillions of sentient beings...because he's a ******?  And you're going to choose to trust this person?

Yeah... That sounds like something an idiot would do...

who's the more foolish the fool, or the fool who follows him? 

name that movie

[UrgedDuke]

Lord Goose wrote...

A
dilemma doesn't exist for logic, a
dilemma is completely based on morality.

It is impossible say that synthetic life wiping out organics is really possible. So it is illogical to assume that it would eventually happen. But Catalyst assumes it for some reason.

your still missing the point... for some reason

[Big Bad]

UrgedDuke wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

When it comes
to the catalyst, my money is on B.

Do not attribute malice to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?)

Wait, you're telling me that the catalyst has orchestrated the brutal murder of trillions of trillions of sentient beings...because he's a ******?  And you're going to choose to trust this person?

Yeah... That sounds like something an idiot would do...

who's the more foolish the fool, or the fool who follows him? 

name that movie

Dude, this is the kind of forum where everybody is going to know the answer to that one!  (It's Star Wars, of course!)

[estebanus]

Lord Goose wrote...

A
dilemma doesn't exist for logic, a
dilemma is completely based on morality.

It is impossible say that synthetic life wiping out organics is really possible. So it is illogical to assume that it would eventually happen. But Catalyst assumes it for some reason.

And you still believe it, even though you yourself just admitted that it's reasoning and logic is based on pure speculation, with no proof to support its cause?

uuuhhhhh...

[Big Bad]

Ok, I'm done being smarmy and sarcastic for the moment. Back to ME2!

[UrgedDuke]

Big Bad wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

When it comes
to the catalyst, my money is on B.

Do not attribute malice to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?)

Wait, you're telling me that the catalyst has orchestrated the brutal murder of trillions of trillions of sentient beings...because he's a ******?  And you're going to choose to trust this person?

Yeah... That sounds like something an idiot would do...

who's the more foolish the fool, or the fool who follows him? 

name that movie

Dude, this is the kind of forum where everybody is going to know the answer to that one!  (It's Star Wars, of course!)

I felt that it fit the situation

[MegumiAzusa]

Lord Goose wrote...

A
dilemma doesn't exist for logic, a
dilemma is completely based on morality.

It is impossible say that synthetic life wiping out organics is really possible. So it is illogical to assume that it would eventually happen. But Catalyst assumes it for some reason.

Do you really believe organics can and will always control what they create?
Remember in an infinite timespan you can experience infinite slip ups, and if one of them creates a synthetic race that destroys organics then what you say is impossible did just happen, so it's not impossible. Meaning as its a possibility the Reapers try to prevent it as good as they can. It is a solution, a flawed one, one that "don't work anymore" but still it's a logical solution for a problem that can exist.

[EpyonX3]

estebanus wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

There should be blood all down Shepard's right arm from the shoulder wound, interestingly according to this screen shot and the blood on the back of the shoulder, the bullet passed through Shepard's shoulder, s/he should not even be able to wield a weapon in that hand, yet continues to do so.

*image snip*

6 trillion dollar man!


But seriously, we must remember that we're playing a video game. How many times have your shields gone down and was shot or punched to an inch of your life, only to bounce right back after some medigel?

I knew that would be the response, so why not have Marauder shields shoot Shepard in the left shoulder?, then there would be no question.

No question of what?

Why Shepard would be capable of still holding the carnifex.

I don't know.

Uhhh... I was just answering your question...

Oh I know. If that's what he's asking then I don't know the answer.

[estebanus]

EpyonX3 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

There should be blood all down Shepard's right arm from the shoulder wound, interestingly according to this screen shot and the blood on the back of the shoulder, the bullet passed through Shepard's shoulder, s/he should not even be able to wield a weapon in that hand, yet continues to do so.

*image snip*

6 trillion dollar man!


But seriously, we must remember that we're playing a video game. How many times have your shields gone down and was shot or punched to an inch of your life, only to bounce right back after some medigel?

I knew that would be the response, so why not have Marauder shields shoot Shepard in the left shoulder?, then there would be no question.

No question of what?

Why Shepard would be capable of still holding the carnifex.

I don't know.

Uhhh... I was just answering your question...

Oh I know. If that's what he's asking then I don't know the answer.

Neither do I...

[Lord Goose]

But
Benezia and Saren both said they were not instantly controlled, they were slowly
convinced of the rightness of the Reaper
cause.

Actually, Saren believed that if he will prove himself useful, he would be spared. Submission is preferable to extinction and such. Benezia just believed in Saren, and Illusive Man believed that he is not indoctrinated and could control the Reapers. Paul Grayson also believed that he is able to break Reapers control over him, while doing exactly what they wanted him to do.

That is making me believe, that indoctrination that Reapers don't care that indoctrinated believe in. They are letting their slaves to harbour their delusions as long as they're useful. Much like they did with the geth - they found their worshipp annoying, but ddn' care as long as they were useful.

And look at you now, arguing for
the control option.

I only choose Control because Synthesis is amoral and my Shepard cannot allow t sacrifice the geth if provided an option. If I was playing self-centered bastard, he would choose destroy just because he doesn't want to die. And what?

[Lord Goose]

Remember in an infinite timespan you
can experience infinite slip ups,

Infinite does not mean all-encompassing (is that right word?). For example, natural numbers are infinite, but whre are other numbers.

[Destructorlio]

Lord Goose wrote...

Actually, Saren believed that if he will prove himself useful, he would be spared. Submission is preferable to extinction and such.

 

 


He believed that because that is the 'crowbar' the Reapers used to get into his mind and control him. Likewise TIM with his illusion of control. With Shepard they were particularly clever- they gave him the option to choose his own crowbar, so it felt like he was the one in control, when really he was just telling them the easiest way to control him.

Lord Goose wrote... 

Benezia just believed in Saren, and Illusive Man believed that he is not indoctrinated and could control the Reapers. Paul Grayson also believed that he is able to break Reapers control over him, while doing exactly what they wanted him to do.

 

  

And you believe that by choosing control you were doing the moral thing... while doing exactly what the Reapers want you to do.

Lord Goose wrote...  

That is making me believe, that indoctrination that Reapers don't care that indoctrinated believe in. They are letting their slaves to harbour their delusions as long as they're useful. Much like they did with the geth - they found their worshipp annoying, but ddn' care as long as they were useful.

 

   

This is all argument in favor of IT. They have contructed the illusion for you- and you walked right into it by choosing control and giving up your soul.

Lord Goose wrote...   

I only choose Control because Synthesis is amoral and my Shepard cannot allow t sacrifice the geth if provided an option. If I was playing self-centered bastard, he would choose destroy just because he doesn't want to die. And what?

You chose contol because you believed what the starchild told you! Which was a big-ass mistake, my friend, because THAT KID IS HARBINGER.

[MegumiAzusa]

Lord Goose wrote...

I only choose Control because Synthesis is amoral and my Shepard cannot allow t sacrifice the geth if provided an option. If I was playing self-centered bastard, he would choose destroy just because he doesn't want to die. And what?

So you think the Reapers who just have shown you that they can control you through TIM letting you control them while they are saying TIM couldn't control them because they were controlling him?
Think about what you're doing.

Lord Goose wrote...

Remember in an infinite timespan you
can experience infinite slip ups,

Infinite does not mean all-encompassing (is that right word?). For example, natural numbers are infinite, but whre are other numbers.

With an infinite time span you have infinite civilizations. Each civilization has the possibility to create synthetics and then slip up. That is just what it is.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 28 mai 2012 - 12:59 .

[Lord Goose]

even though you
yourself just admitted that it's reasoning
and logic is based on pure speculation,
with no proof to support its cause?

I disagree with Catalyst, what his solution is correct. Organics and synthetics can co-exist, as proven by geth coming to help all other races. But I also don't think that he is lying to me about options.

I'm sorry if my lack of English skill makes me hard to understand.

[UrgedDuke]

Lord Goose wrote...

But
Benezia and Saren both said they were not instantly controlled, they were slowly
convinced of the rightness of the Reaper
cause.

Actually, Saren believed that if he will prove himself useful, he would be spared. Submission is preferable to extinction and such. Benezia just believed in Saren, and Illusive Man believed that he is not indoctrinated and could control the Reapers. Paul Grayson also believed that he is able to break Reapers control over him, while doing exactly what they wanted him to do.

That is making me believe, that indoctrination that Reapers don't care that indoctrinated believe in. They are letting their slaves to harbour their delusions as long as they're useful. Much like they did with the geth - they found their worshipp annoying, but ddn' care as long as they were useful.

And look at you now, arguing for
the control option.

I only choose Control because Synthesis is amoral and my Shepard cannot allow t sacrifice the geth if provided an option. If I was playing self-centered bastard, he would choose destroy just because he doesn't want to die. And what?

Wait you said earlier that the godchild was telling 100% the truth. He suggested that Shepard would die if he chose destroy because he is part synthetic. Now why would this self-centered Shepard that you speak of pick destroy for the sole reason that he didn't want to die, when the god child basically told him that he was going to die.