55528 réponses à ce sujet

[UrgedDuke]

Lord Goose wrote...

It is all about making the
victim believe s/he is in control.

Husks are indoctrinated. I don't really think that they're thinking what they're in control.

we're not talking about husks we're talking about indoctrinated agents like TIM. remember when he sail "No! I'm in control, nobody is telling me what to do!" so yes indoctrinated people do think they're in control

[Lord Goose]

it is paragon to reject the
reapers and their philosophy,

Reapers have philosophy now?

[MegumiAzusa]

Lord Goose wrote...

It is all about making the
victim believe s/he is in control.

Husks are indoctrinated. I don't really think that they're thinking what they're in control.

Did you even read the second part or do you just pick out the things where you think you can argue?
And no, Husks are either just forced on dragon teeth implanting them and making them mindless, or are indoctrinated to put themselves on dragon teeth implanting them and making them mindless. Indoctrination is no needed part in the huskification process.

[UrgedDuke]

Lord Goose wrote...

it is paragon to reject the
reapers and their philosophy,

Reapers have philosophy now?

OMG are you for real

[estebanus]

Lord Goose wrote...

it is paragon to reject the
reapers and their philosophy,

Reapers have philosophy now?

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

[Dimius]

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

[MegumiAzusa]

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

Idk what you mean by excuse but it's certainly a possibility.

[MACharlie1]

Somehow, I think people are misinterpreting indoctrination and the levels associated with it. 

Established in ME1 with a Miss Rana Thanopkis, the more control the Reapers exert, the less capable they become. In essence we have Husks being totally under Reaper control - totally useless except as ground troops and in creating more troops. The Cerberus science team wasn't much use except for impaling themselves on Dragon Spikes. 

Then we have higher level functioning indoctrinated. These guys are the Benezias and Amanda Kensons. They are subtly indoctrinated but only so much as to complete a task for the Reapers. Otherwise, they might as well be husks. They are blatently indoctrinated to an unindoctrinated and probably to themselves but they simply can't help themselves. The crazies I guess you can say. They do things because they get told to by probably other indoctrinated servants. Kenson is a bit higher ranking then Benezia since she was slowly manipulated into stopping the project rather then someone telling her "STOP!". 

Then we have the highest level fucntioning. The Illusive Man and Saren and possibly Shepard. These guys are just hit with just a tint of indoctrination to subtly bend them to their will because they have to be able to function the best in their mastermind positions. They need the most capability and willpower in order to complete their tasks. They don't do their tasks because they are told to - they do them because they have been manipulated into believing it's the best course of action. 

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

Idk what you mean by excuse but it's certainly a possibility.

Of course, then the breath scene must be a hallucination, too.

[Lord Goose]

Indoctrination is
no needed part in the huskification
process.

As far as I remember, huskification is final stage of indoctrination. It just much more faster, because nanobots travelling with adrenaline in blood. It was said on Horizon.

"No! I'm in
control, nobody is telling me what to do!"
so yes indoctrinated people do think
they're in control

Indoctrinated people think that they're in control.
Normal (well, some of them) people think that they're in control.

We can't say that somebody is indoctrinated if he thinks that he is in control.

OMG are you for real

I maybe be mistaken.
Can you quote me ANY explanation why reapers harvest all advanced sentient races, besides Calayst speech?

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

Idk what you mean by excuse but it's certainly a possibility.

Of course, then the breath scene must be a hallucination, too

As I said many times now: for all we know the whole game could be a hallucination, Shepard is indoctrinated in Arrival as evidenced by her reaction to Dr Kenson showing her Object Rho.
Then in the prologue of ME3 even has "alien" voices in her head when it hits the floor which are described in the Codex as the pinnacle of indoctrination, and as she is touching her head you can hear a buzzing sound, it doesn't come from outside because as with the voices it doesn't change according to the other sounds you hear. Both voices and buzzing fade out after a short while.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 28 mai 2012 - 01:47 .

[Rifneno]

EpyonX3 wrote...

The other two keepers don't have bodies in front of them, therefore you can go through them.

EDIT: Rearranged the pics to the correct order.

Also, since the keepers need to be on the bodies, it explains why they have cliping off. Otherwise that first keeper would be floting in the air.

Also notice Shepard clingingg to his gut in he second pic, just saying.

No. Just no. That's making a lot of assumptions about both the graphics engine and the designers, some of which we KNOW aren't true. Hell, if things worked the way you're saying and the keeper would just be floating without clipping to make him "fall" through the bodies, why doesn't it make him fall through the floor too? Clipping is either on or off, I've never heard of "clip through this model, but not that one". And if it did do that, it'd be pretty ridiculous for such an advanced engine to have all the NPCs in the area use the exact same data no matter what, since you're saying they couldn't disable the clipping on only one keeper.

byne wrote...

I also find it very hard to believe that every single mass relay has a clear empty shot in with nothing between it andthe connecting relay.

Stuff moves around in space

I find it very easy to believe. Do you have any idea how empty space is? Scientists predict that Andromeda and the Milky Way will collide in a couple billion years or so. Despite both galaxies having hundreds of billions of stars, they predict it's very unlikely that any two of them will collide while the galaxies pass through each other. Even stuff like asteroid belts has been highly fictionalized in... well, anything that includes it. In reality the asteroids in belts are still millions of miles away from each other. I'm sure some occasional bits of crap floating around will get in the way every now and again, but they'll move out of it just as quickly and the relay does check to make sure the lane is clear before launching a ship.

If space is two things, it's big and empty.

MegumiAzusa wrote...

TIM was always like that. He expressively says:
"Judge us not by our methods, but by what we seek to accomplish."

Scum always tries to justify itself. Every evil empire in the history of mankind thought it had noble goals. Few hundred years ago, a lot of slaveowners thought they were doing the "savages" a favor by "civilizing" them. I refuse to judge evil by what it hopes to accomplish.

... Bah, this thread is growing too fast to catch up.

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

Idk what you mean by excuse but it's certainly a possibility.

Of course, then the breath scene must be a hallucination, too

As I said many times now: for all we know the whole game could be a hallucination, Shepard is indoctrinated in Arrival as evidenced by her reaction to Dr Kenson showing her Object Rho.
Then in the prologue of ME3 even has "alien" voices in her head when it hits the floor which are described in the Codex as the pinnacle of indoctrination, and as she is touching her head you can hear a buzzing sound, it doesn't come from outside because as with the voices it doesn't change according to the other sounds you hear. Both voices and buzzing fade out after a short while.

Yeah, yeah, I remember your posts . Maybe we should note what definition of hallucination we use:
Everything completely happening inside the mind. Or a mix up of reality and dream, i.e. the person is awake but projects things from the mind onto reality.

(I prefer the latter one. It makes the most sense w.r.t. the games as-is.)

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 28 mai 2012 - 01:54 .

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

Idk what you mean by excuse but it's certainly a possibility.

Of course, then the breath scene must be a hallucination, too

As I said many times now: for all we know the whole game could be a hallucination, Shepard is indoctrinated in Arrival as evidenced by her reaction to Dr Kenson showing her Object Rho.
Then in the prologue of ME3 even has "alien" voices in her head when it hits the floor which are described in the Codex as the pinnacle of indoctrination, and as she is touching her head you can hear a buzzing sound, it doesn't come from outside because as with the voices it doesn't change according to the other sounds you hear. Both voices and buzzing fade out after a short while.

Yeah, yeah, I remember your posts . Maybe we should note what definition of hallucination we use:
Everything completely happening inside the mind. Or a mix up of reality and dream, i.e. the person is awake but projects things from the mind onto reality.

(I prefer the latter one. It makes the most sense w.r.t. the games as-is.)

I see now my first answer was badly worded. I wanted to say that any point could be the start of her hallucinations but it doesn't matter. We can't pinpoint it but people still trying to pinpoint the start with specific events, preferably at the end of the game. For me it looks like people are so focused on the endings that they ignore that it could have started at any time without contact to specific Reaper parts as Shep is already fully indoctrinated.
Now to throw something in the room I just say that the implants Shep has are actually Reaper implants that warp her reality to make her susceptible for instructions, or she fights besides Reaper troops while she thinks the Banshee next to her is Liara. (I know nonsensical but it can neither proven nor disproven, but you can say as a fact that Shep is indoctrinated since at least ME2)

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 28 mai 2012 - 02:10 .

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

Idk what you mean by excuse but it's certainly a possibility.

Of course, then the breath scene must be a hallucination, too

As I said many times now: for all we know the whole game could be a hallucination, Shepard is indoctrinated in Arrival as evidenced by her reaction to Dr Kenson showing her Object Rho.
Then in the prologue of ME3 even has "alien" voices in her head when it hits the floor which are described in the Codex as the pinnacle of indoctrination, and as she is touching her head you can hear a buzzing sound, it doesn't come from outside because as with the voices it doesn't change according to the other sounds you hear. Both voices and buzzing fade out after a short while.

Yeah, yeah, I remember your posts . Maybe we should note what definition of hallucination we use:
Everything completely happening inside the mind. Or a mix up of reality and dream, i.e. the person is awake but projects things from the mind onto reality.

(I prefer the latter one. It makes the most sense w.r.t. the games as-is.)

I see now my first answer was badly worded. I wanted to say that any point could be the start of her hallucinations but it doesn't matter. We can't pinpoint it but people still trying to pinpoint the start with specific events, preferably at the end of the game. For me it looks like people are so focused on the endings that they ignore that it could have started at any time without contact to specific Reaper parts as Shep is already fully indoctrinated.
Now to throw something in the room I just say that the implants Shep has are actually Reaper implants that warp her reality to make her susceptible for instructions, or she fights besides Reaper troops while she thinks the Banshee next to her is Liara. (I know nonsensical but it can neither proven nor disproven, but you can say as a fact that Shep is indoctrinated since at least ME2)

I raise my glass to that. It is probably imposssible and also unnecessary to pick the exact moment of the first hallucination -- both dream and reality -- as you wrote, there is just too much Reaper tech around to pin-point the exact point of origin.
I like it that way, since it's more natural and similar to what we experience in our daily lifes in terms of real-world dangers.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 28 mai 2012 - 02:20 .

[Big G13]

Since things have slowed down I'd like to through a little something off topic out there. The other night I was watching the "Reignite - Mass Effect" video again and something jumped out at me. At about 1:23 in, the cloud mass on Earth, center of frame, resembles the RL 'Face on Mars' photos.
Submitted for fun, comment, ridicule, whatever.    

Modifié par Big G13, 28 mai 2012 - 02:37 .

[EpyonX3]

Rifneno wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

The other two keepers don't have bodies in front of them, therefore you can go through them.

EDIT: Rearranged the pics to the correct order.

Also, since the keepers need to be on the bodies, it explains why they have cliping off. Otherwise that first keeper would be floting in the air.

Also notice Shepard clingingg to his gut in he second pic, just saying.

No. Just no. That's making a lot of assumptions about both the graphics engine and the designers, some of which we KNOW aren't true. Hell, if things worked the way you're saying and the keeper would just be floating without clipping to make him "fall" through the bodies, why doesn't it make him fall through the floor too? Clipping is either on or off, I've never heard of "clip through this model, but not that one". And if it did do that, it'd be pretty ridiculous for such an advanced engine to have all the NPCs in the area use the exact same data no matter what, since you're saying they couldn't disable the clipping on only one keeper.

Perhaps I used the wrong term. However, my point is that the first Keeper cannot be reached because there is a pile of bodies in between Shepard and it. To many, this made it appear as if collision detection was on like normal throughout the game when being near keepers for this one but off for the rest because you can go through them.

I meant that Bioware tweaked the collision detection on the keepers in this level so that they can be on top of the bodies without appearing to float in the air, since the space between you and a keeper under normal circumstances is pretty wide.

The only thing special about that keeper is that it looks at you when you land. That's about it.

[Destructorlio]

byne wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

estebanus wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I think it was all the way back in the first IT thread we were talking about Husk brains and how intact they would be after "huskification"? Anyway, managed to snag a close up after a sniper round:
*snip*
Didn't think there'd be cables inside the brain, but interesting nonetheless. Anyway, back to Shieldwall *salute*

Good luck! I've already completed Shieldwall, so I guess I won't be joining you! *salutes*

Bah! I managed to get two characters to 20, and promoted them, so I contributed, but I didn't make my squad goal. Had a sniper at 17 before my wife wanted to watch T2 and I had to let the dream go.

So bummed. I'm definitely levelling three chars up to 20 in advance in case this happens again. Boh!

Thats why I leveled every class to 20 months ago and left them there.

Never saw any point in promoting them since N7 level really doesnt matter.

The 75 war asset points you get per character promotion is nice though.

I've only ever promoted 4 people: 1 before I finished SP so I had the War Asset (his name was Killnutz) and had my GR at 100%. 1 I promoted on my wife's account so she had the War Asset and had 100% GR to finish the campaign (her name was Jadzia). And the 2 I promoted yesterday in my attempt to get the squad goal. 

And that's literally all the MP playtime I've ever had- what it took to promote those four and to get my sniper to lvl 17 last night. It felt like a lot at the time.

[paxxton]

Hi! Someone finally acknowledges my theory here?

Modifié par paxxton, 28 mai 2012 - 03:07 .

[Destructorlio]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

As I said many times now: for all we know the whole game could be a hallucination, Shepard is indoctrinated in Arrival as evidenced by her reaction to Dr Kenson showing her Object Rho.

 

Yes, but the specific clues don't begin until you are hit by the Harbinger beam, which is why so many people ascribe to it as the beginning of the 'unreality'.

MegumiAzusa wrote... 

Then in the prologue of ME3 even has "alien" voices in her head when it hits the floor which are described in the Codex as the pinnacle of indoctrination, and as she is touching her head you can hear a buzzing sound, it doesn't come from outside because as with the voices it doesn't change according to the other sounds you hear. Both voices and buzzing fade out after a short while.

I just watched this and didn't really pick up on the alien voices- it just seems like her hearing was dulled momentarily and she heard the farawy voices of the people in the room with her, a la Saving Private Ryan.

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

This is still essentially IT in spirit- IT is not exactly conclusive about where the process begins, the only consistent theme is that there are enough clues in the ending sequence to indicate that it is not real, or at least not entirely real. Everything else is pure speculation until the EC. However yes, the 'breath' scene would seem to be unexplained in this interpretation. 

Modifié par Destructorlio, 28 mai 2012 - 03:10 .

[Destructorlio]

Lord Goose wrote...

As far as I remember, huskification is final stage of indoctrination. It just much more faster, because nanobots travelling with adrenaline in blood. It was said on Horizon.

Please. They're called 'nanides'.

paxxton wrote...

Hi! Someone finally acknowledges my theory here? 

 

Ha! Paxxton: you've earned this.

High five.

[D.Sharrah]

Reposting these thoughts...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Do you really think Shepard can control
the reapers?`

If we go into details, Reapers did choose to attack Sanctuary, because Henry Lawson have found something. He was researching control over reapers, and they attacked him.
If I don't believe Catalyst, I should just stay and do nothing and die from blood loss.

therefore by the catalyst's own logic,
the reaper cycle will need to continue

He is wrong. There is always another way.

He's wrong about the cycle...but not wrong about anything else.  You can't have it both ways.  You can't say that you are being absolutely literal - and then choose to interpert specific parts that support your viewpoint.  If Starbinger is wrong about the cycle then he can be wrong about Control - maybe Shep will fail to control the reapers, the cycle continues.  Maybe he is wrong about Synthesis - there will still be diversity, enough diversity that a certain group will always look for a way to be superior and the cycle continues.  The only way to absoultel, 100%, guarantee that the cycle stops - DESTROY THE REAPERS.

Big Bad wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

In this analogy, the murderers represent
the Reapers, and the act of murder
represents the cycles

Eh. How exactly, the cycles will continue with Reapers under Shepard's control?

Well, according to the catalyst the genocide of all organics is the inevitable outcome of allowing AI to exist. Unless Shepard (whatever Shepard actually is after the control ending) is planning on setting up a galaxy-wide fascist regime that brutally represses everybody in order to prevent the construction of AI, somebody somewhere is going to create AI, therefore by the catalyst's own logic, the reaper cycle will need to continue.

Even better...turn Starbinger's logic on its head. The only reason anyone develops AI is because we follow a technological path laid out for us by...duh-duh...the Reapers. The Reapers are the "creators" - and the organics are the created rebelling. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy.

[FFZero]

Destructorlio wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote... 

Then in the prologue of ME3 even has "alien" voices in her head when it hits the floor which are described in the Codex as the pinnacle of indoctrination, and as she is touching her head you can hear a buzzing sound, it doesn't come from outside because as with the voices it doesn't change according to the other sounds you hear. Both voices and buzzing fade out after a short while.

I just watched this and didn't really pick up on the alien voices- it just seems like her hearing was dulled momentarily and she heard the farawy voices of the people in the room with her, a la Saving Private Ryan.

The "alien" voices are definitely there. There are two main sounds in that bit, the sound of people yelling in the background and a weird deeper "alien" sound, and that deeper sound is one of the weird noises you can hear in the dream sequences.

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Dimius wrote...

I wonder if this was discussed already... When Shepard got teleported to the citadel, he could have gotten incapacitated, and put on an examination table by the reapers. And they just try to feed him false memories. Could that be an excuse to continue the game?

Idk what you mean by excuse but it's certainly a possibility.

Of course, then the breath scene must be a hallucination, too

As I said many times now: for all we know the whole game could be a hallucination, Shepard is indoctrinated in Arrival as evidenced by her reaction to Dr Kenson showing her Object Rho.
Then in the prologue of ME3 even has "alien" voices in her head when it hits the floor which are described in the Codex as the pinnacle of indoctrination, and as she is touching her head you can hear a buzzing sound, it doesn't come from outside because as with the voices it doesn't change according to the other sounds you hear. Both voices and buzzing fade out after a short while.

Those weren't alien voices. That was the sound of the people in the room dieing, screaming in agony. The ringing was from the blow of the reaper beam. It was an explosion basically, much like a flashbang.

Keep in my that is was strong enough to uproot that huge desk and then fligh Shepard into a wall.

Anderson's voice is also muffled a bit and fades back in as Shepard gets back to normal.

I don't hear buzzing. The only thing that comes close is the reapeer horn just as Anderson calls out for Shepard.

[D.Sharrah]

estebanus wrote...

Goddamnit, why are renegades so misunderstood?!

I think its the whole color thing...we're conditioned that way...red = anger, rage, etc. = bad.  Wish I could explain it better than that, but I really do think its just that simple...

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 28 mai 2012 - 03:27 .