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Big Bad wrote...
Up until the last scene, the game goes out of its way to demonstrate that attempting to control the Reapers is a Very Bad Idea. Then in walks the Catalyst who tells you, "Oh, control is actually a good choice - it will work for you, honest!" He doesn't present any evidence or logical arguments to contradict what we've already learned from the story, but you're going to ignore all of this and trust him anyway?
Big Bad wrote...
Lord Goose wrote...
By proxy I think, it's The Illusive Man's
philosphy, an idea brought to him by the
Reapers (in comparison with the
indoctrinated Protheans who thought the
same in their cycle).
I think that this idea is his personal. You can compare it to that heretics believed in. Geth thought that Reapers are their gods, and the Reapers themselves were not amused, but since geth were useful they allowed them to harbour delusions. It is a case of argumentum and Hitlerum: even if the idea was shared by indoctrinated it doesn't have to be incorrect.
You may also pay attention that Reapers attacked Sanctuary because of Lawson's research. He may have uncovered something.
Up until the last scene, the game goes out of its way to demonstrate that attempting to control the Reapers is a Very Bad Idea. Then in walks the Catalyst who tells you, "Oh, control is actually a good choice - it will work for you, honest!" He doesn't present any evidence or logical arguments to contradict what we've already learned from the story, but you're going to ignore all of this and trust him anyway?
paxxton wrote...
Doesn't Shepard answer "We'd take our chance."? So he doesn't care about all those people plugged into life-support or heavily augmented. For him they can just go dark?? Not very noble of him to do that. Those are serious consequence with which Shepard has to deal after Destroy.
Lord Goose wrote...
By proxy I think, it's The Illusive Man's
philosphy, an idea brought to him by the
Reapers (in comparison with the
indoctrinated Protheans who thought the
same in their cycle).
I think that this idea is his personal. You can compare it to that heretics believed in. Geth thought that Reapers are their gods, and the Reapers themselves were not amused, but since geth were useful they allowed them to harbour delusions. It is a case of argumentum and Hitlerum: even if the idea was shared by indoctrinated it doesn't have to be incorrect.
You may also pay attention that Reapers attacked Sanctuary because of Lawson's research. He may have uncovered something.
Rifneno wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Doesn't Shepard answer "We'd take our chance."? So he doesn't care about all those people plugged into life-support or heavily augmented. For him they can just go dark?? Not very noble of him to do that. Those are serious consequence with which Shepard has to deal after Destroy.
Yeah, because trying to control the Reapers has worked out so well for everyone else that tried it. No risk there. Clearly the ethical thing to do is to take the ridiculous longshot that saves everybody rather than the sure thing that saves 99%.
Seriously, we need an eyeroll or facepalm smiley.
Hope I got it right..
Modifié par pirate1802, 28 mai 2012 - 06:11 .
Modifié par Makrys, 28 mai 2012 - 06:27 .
gunslinger_ruiz wrote..
"They're too strong!"
"You're stronger! Don't let them win, break their hold, don't let them control you!"
The Reapers are definitley inside The Illusive Man's head, they knew what he knew and more than likely let him do this thing with Sanctuary. By the third game it's a safe assumption The Illusive Man's thoughts are influenced by the Reapers (and moreso as the game progresses), anything he does is either what they want him to do or what they allow him to do.
"Interfere with Shepard's plans"
"Nuetralize Tuchanka"
"Implant Reaper tech on your soldiers"
"Hack the Prothean VI and Tell us what the Catalyst is"
"Implant control technology in yourself"
The link we have to Conrol being the Reaper's influence is the Prothean's splinter group that thought the same, hinted at that other cycles have expereinced similar groups by the Prothean VI.
Well, if you consider that most people in the future are augmented with some tech and rely on it, things can look pretty gruesome after Destroy with all them fatally shocked by a sudden power surge.pirate1802 wrote...
Rifneno wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Doesn't Shepard answer "We'd take our chance."? So he doesn't care about all those people plugged into life-support or heavily augmented. For him they can just go dark?? Not very noble of him to do that. Those are serious consequences with which Shepard has to deal after Destroy.
Yeah, because trying to control the Reapers has worked out so well for everyone else that tried it. No risk there. Clearly the ethical thing to do is to take the ridiculous longshot that saves everybody rather than the sure thing that saves 99%.
Seriously, we need an eyeroll or facepalm smiley.
"One bird in hand is better than two in the bush"
Modifié par paxxton, 28 mai 2012 - 06:37 .
Rifneno wrote...
Something is off here. Either it's a plot hole, or the Prothean VI on Thessia was already altered (or just plain fake to begin with) or something. This doesn't add up.
Stuff about the Reapers being the servants of a greater cycle, blah blah blah, sounded very Starbinger like to me. It could add to the theory that the VI is hacked, or a plant.
Destructorlio wrote...
StElmo wrote...
This isn't an in-game clue, BUT.
Mass Effect 3 doesn't have a making of documentary, do you think this is because they were planning the indoctrination plot device and wanted to keep that kind of thing under wraps?
Instead, they put out thje final hours, which is more of a controlled, smaller tid bit?
Thoughts?
I definitely think their extreme silence on all things is a clue towards IT. Did they make docos for 1&2?
Final hours app definitely not telling the whole story, and itself contains a lot of clues that support IT.
Modifié par paxxton, 28 mai 2012 - 06:57 .
Makrys wrote...
So, the So we can't get the ending we want? thread was just now locked. Apparently they got off topic. Never paid attention to that thread anyway, but it did get quite massive. I guess they'll have to restart as well.
Anywho, just droppin' the info.
Edit: Aaaaaand, they've already restarted: http://social.biowar.../index/12272330
Fast little hamsters.
GoblinSapper wrote...
IT still isn't dead?
Hasn't Bioware kicked that dead horse onto the funeral pyre enough times? They've outright said they won't change the ending. I thought this all ended -weeks- ago.
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
GoblinSapper wrote...
IT still isn't dead?
Hasn't Bioware kicked that dead horse onto the funeral pyre enough times? They've outright said they won't change the ending. I thought this all ended -weeks- ago.
IT dosent change the ending, it simply explains what really happens.
Modifié par GoblinSapper, 28 mai 2012 - 07:39 .
So what? IT makes sense in the context of Mass Effect. If BioWare implements it (or has already done it), players can only gain not lose.GoblinSapper wrote...
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
GoblinSapper wrote...
IT still isn't dead?
Hasn't Bioware kicked that dead horse onto the funeral pyre enough times? They've outright said they won't change the ending. I thought this all ended -weeks- ago.
IT dosent change the ending, it simply explains what really happens.
I think your giving Bioware way more intellectual credit than is due.
Modifié par paxxton, 28 mai 2012 - 07:58 .
balance5050 wrote...
So I see all I missed was Epyon's usual stubbornness. Can't he see he's actually finding clues for I.T. in those pics? It's too small to be holding the entire chamber, it's just something that released into the citadel or is just another dreamy inconsistency.
GoblinSapper wrote...
IT still isn't dead?
Hasn't Bioware kicked that dead horse onto the funeral pyre enough times? They've outright said they won't change the ending. I thought this all ended -weeks- ago.
Lets not forget that Hudson went to the HTL site and placed two polls about if they like the IT or not, which they both won in favor for IT by a landslide.Corik wrote...
I think some of you are mixing Reaperbieber lies with truths. That's the only way to think Destroy is wrong and control good. If we assume Reaperbieber is lying, then why are we assuming that Destroy also destroys geth and EDI? In fact, there's a twit from Jessica Merizan in which she said that EDI is not destroyed because she is not made from Reaper tech. That's kinda a confirmation that Destroy doesn't destroy other tech (so, Rieperbieber was lying).
Also, someone said at PAX that the citadel and the relays were not destroyed... so it's another confirmation.
And, in the end, we have that breathing scene at London. Only available with enough EMS... that's another confirmation to Destroy being the correct choice, as we know from ME2 that if Shepard survives, we have done it well... And if Shepard dies, we failed.
So, long story short. If reaperbieber lies, he lies about everything. If he says Control or Synthesis are good, then we must believe they are not. If he says Destroy is bad, then we must believe it's good. He even speak about the reapers as "us"... I think we can assume that he is, in fact, a reaper. Even if there's no Indoctrination Theory and the end is literal.
Corik wrote...
I think some of you are mixing Reaperbieber lies with truths. That's the only way to think Destroy is wrong and control good. If we assume Reaperbieber is lying, then why are we assuming that Destroy also destroys geth and EDI? In fact, there's a twit from Jessica Merizan in which she said that EDI is not destroyed because she is not made from Reaper tech. That's kinda a confirmation that Destroy doesn't destroy other tech (so, Rieperbieber was lying).
Also, someone said at PAX that the citadel and the relays were not destroyed... so it's another confirmation.
And, in the end, we have that breathing scene at London. Only available with enough EMS... that's another confirmation to Destroy being the correct choice, as we know from ME2 that if Shepard survives, we have done it well... And if Shepard dies, we failed.
So, long story short. If reaperbieber lies, he lies about everything. If he says Control or Synthesis are good, then we must believe they are not. If he says Destroy is bad, then we must believe it's good. He even speak about the reapers as "us"... I think we can assume that he is, in fact, a reaper. Even if there's no Indoctrination Theory and the end is literal.
OneWithTheAssassins wrote...
Lets not forget that Hudson went to the HTL site and placed two polls about if they like the IT or not, which they both won in favor for IT by a landslide.
I remember Gamble saying that! And at the same time, someone was saying that they started making it because of fan reaction. I was so confused about it that I called BS on Gamble's tweet. That was before I learned of the all mighty, all knowing IT.Corik wrote...
OneWithTheAssassins wrote...
Lets not forget that Hudson went to the HTL site and placed two polls about if they like the IT or not, which they both won in favor for IT by a landslide.
There are also some twits from Mike Gamble which suggest that EC may have been on production since the game launched. That mixed with the fact that there are lots of evidences ingame about a hallucination is a pretty nice argument.
Still, everything depends on Bioware. Even with the huge support to the IT...
One thing that gives me a little hope and faith is another twit confirming EC will have gameplay... If we have gameplay that means there's something after London's breathing scene...
I don't know... I really need to believe something like this. I really don't care about IT (I think is the best, though). In fact, I only need to know that Shepard's friends were with him in his last moments if he die... Or that they saved him if he lives. And that humanity AS WE KNOW IT has been saved. Otherwise... I don't know why I've been fighting so hard during the 3 games. I was supposed to save the galaxy and humanity, not to see it destroyed and Shepard forgotten in London while his friends cowardly escape...
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