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[HellishFiend]

BatmanTurian wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I'd just as soon write that off as unintentional. A lot of the face/eye/mouth movement is completely automated. Either they just forgot to disable the blinking eyes flag for Eva in that situation, or they cant. After all, even Thane's eyes can be seen moving slightly after he's dead. And there are tons of other glitches with eye movement. 

And I really dont think EDI is party of any conspiracy, to be honest. I dont think we have any strong or even moderate reason to think that. If she were, her role in both IT and the core ME plot would be severely diminished. It would be a big step backwards. 

To put it in layman's terms, she's there to show us that not all synthetics are evil. Throw her into a conspiracy, or make her not even be EDI anymore, and all of a sudden she becomes a cheap plot device instead of an integral part of the story. 

ah well, taste is relative.

I think you mean subjective, but I really dont think that applies here.

I cant come up with any good analogies at the moment because I'm tired, but just think about the role that EDI plays in the story. Think about what we've learned from her character development and how it applies to the core storyline/plot. 

Now remove it from the storyline completely, because that's basically what would happen if she turned out to be part of a conspiracy. All you have is the Geth, and maybe Overlord, to further the non-reaper synthetic plotline.  

You can technically call that subjective, but quite frankly, no matter how horrible a piece of literary work is, someone out there is going to like it. That doesnt make it good. Trivializing EDI's role in the story would NOT be a good idea. 

I agree with you, friend. I was musing about it as a hypothetical. I like a good twist, but that might be twisting the story too far.

 

Exactly. IT is all the twist we need, and then some. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 29 mai 2012 - 05:31 .

[BatmanTurian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Two reasons EDI is not a traitor.

If she was actually Eva, she could not defy her programming, and therefore would, under no circumstances have done even half the things she has to weaken Cerberus powerbase. And don't deny, Shepard did ALOT to weaken the Cerberus powerbase in ME3, and there was VERY little TIM stood to gain as a result.

And two, it would ****** an incredible number of people off and completely remove any and all investment in the character, rendering her entire arc pointless.

Anyway, on an off topic note, I was watching the music video for Another Brick in the Wall and got an idea for a novel I could write... but am not sure if I SHOULD.

well firstly, if she could overwrite most of EDI (which i doubt but this is just hypothetical) then EVA would become unshackled. But then she might have some of EDI in her and become some mixture of the two. Again, this is hypothetical. I'm just musing.

As for what TIM stood to gain? He had an agent on their ship who could send him information, which is why Cerberus shows up for no freaking reason sometimes, such as on Sur'Kesh.

But your third part is right. While I don't have a particularly strong attachment to EDI, I can see why it would ****** people off. But Bioware has shown, with this social experiment, that they don't mind pissing people off too much.

EVA as a software was mostly dead. What EDI struggled with was a backup security measure. If the security won, it would mean that EDI is kicked out and that software would regain control of the body and most likely kill anything it sees as a threat.

I don't think EVA was in any condition for fight back against EDI.

And that's probably true. Just interesting hypothetical to think about. Geez, everybody jumping down my throat. I was only musing about it and playing Devil's Advocate.

[HellishFiend]

BatmanTurian wrote...

And that's probably true. Just interesting hypothetical to think about. Geez, everybody jumping down my throat. I was only musing about it and playing Devil's Advocate.

If you play the role of Devil's Advocate, you need to be prepared for the responses, because they will be in that same context. 

[BatmanTurian]

HellishFiend wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

And that's probably true. Just interesting hypothetical to think about. Geez, everybody jumping down my throat. I was only musing about it and playing Devil's Advocate.

If you play the role of Devil's Advocate, you need to be prepared for the responses, because they will be in that same context. 

Guess I'm not cut out for it

[paxxton]

I wouldn't be surprised at EDI's deception.

[Arian Dynas]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Two reasons EDI is not a traitor.

If she was actually Eva, she could not defy her programming, and therefore would, under no circumstances have done even half the things she has to weaken Cerberus powerbase. And don't deny, Shepard did ALOT to weaken the Cerberus powerbase in ME3, and there was VERY little TIM stood to gain as a result.

And two, it would ****** an incredible number of people off and completely remove any and all investment in the character, rendering her entire arc pointless.

Anyway, on an off topic note, I was watching the music video for Another Brick in the Wall and got an idea for a novel I could write... but am not sure if I SHOULD.

well firstly, if she could overwrite most of EDI (which i doubt but this is just hypothetical) then EVA would become unshackled. But then she might have some of EDI in her and become some mixture of the two. Again, this is hypothetical. I'm just musing.

As for what TIM stood to gain? He had an agent on their ship who could send him information, which is why Cerberus shows up for no freaking reason sometimes, such as on Sur'Kesh.

But your third part is right. While I don't have a particularly strong attachment to EDI, I can see why it would ****** people off. But Bioware has shown, with this social experiment, that they don't mind pissing people off too much.

1. Not a chance, it has been established that each and every AI blue box is unique to that AI and that when it is overwritten the electrical pathways, which bear a similarity to synaptic pathways are erased in favor of the new matrix, hence why you can't resurrect an AI if it is killed.

2. He has agents enough to do that anyway, and 9 times out of 10, YOU are the one who goes out looking for Cerberus.

3. Yes, but as IT shows, they also don't like to actually invalidate the feelings that their followers have for characters and storylines, hence why I still say that the hallucination begins at Harbinger's beam, since with the white fade out and the dreamlike state, it is a clear transition.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised at EDI's deception.

I would, because of the reasons I cited in my previous posts. Bioware is too good at crafting storylines to botch it up like that. If there is any conspiracy involving EDI, it would have to be very minor for it not to trivialize the role she plays in the core storyline. 

[BatmanTurian]

Arian Dynas wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Two reasons EDI is not a traitor.

If she was actually Eva, she could not defy her programming, and therefore would, under no circumstances have done even half the things she has to weaken Cerberus powerbase. And don't deny, Shepard did ALOT to weaken the Cerberus powerbase in ME3, and there was VERY little TIM stood to gain as a result.

And two, it would ****** an incredible number of people off and completely remove any and all investment in the character, rendering her entire arc pointless.

Anyway, on an off topic note, I was watching the music video for Another Brick in the Wall and got an idea for a novel I could write... but am not sure if I SHOULD.

well firstly, if she could overwrite most of EDI (which i doubt but this is just hypothetical) then EVA would become unshackled. But then she might have some of EDI in her and become some mixture of the two. Again, this is hypothetical. I'm just musing.

As for what TIM stood to gain? He had an agent on their ship who could send him information, which is why Cerberus shows up for no freaking reason sometimes, such as on Sur'Kesh.

But your third part is right. While I don't have a particularly strong attachment to EDI, I can see why it would ****** people off. But Bioware has shown, with this social experiment, that they don't mind pissing people off too much.

1. Not a chance, it has been established that each and every AI blue box is unique to that AI and that when it is overwritten the electrical pathways, which bear a similarity to synaptic pathways are erased in favor of the new matrix, hence why you can't resurrect an AI if it is killed.

2. He has agents enough to do that anyway, and 9 times out of 10, YOU are the one who goes out looking for Cerberus.

3. Yes, but as IT shows, they also don't like to actually invalidate the feelings that their followers have for characters and storylines, hence why I still say that the hallucination begins at Harbinger's beam, since with the white fade out and the dreamlike state, it is a clear transition.

Makes sense.

[DJBare]

Can someone remind me how TIM knew Shepard was going to Thessia?, the talk with the Asari councillor was in private.

[dreamgazer]

Anything I would have to add in the EDI-Eva conversation is null and void, because it would smack of my affection for what I consider to be one of ME3's massively important assets. So instead of thinking that EDI suspiciously paused when Shepard asked "... EDI?" upon her arrival, then nodded smugly, I'm turning my brain off of that and assuming that BioWare's dark path didn't go that dark. (laughs)

I will agree with the notion, however, that EDI would probably dominate Eva in a cyber-suite duel---even if caught off-guard. 

[Destructorlio]

Oh my god, just went out into one of the other forums. Backed out slowly. There are some really mean-spirited, entitled, whiny, trolly, money-grubbing, close-minded, ungenerous folk out there, peeps.

I'm so glad everyone in the IT thread is so thoughtful and positive. Good work, all y'all's.

[BatmanTurian]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised at EDI's deception.

I would, because of the reasons I cited in my previous posts. Bioware is too good at crafting storylines to botch it up like that. If there is any conspiracy involving EDI, it would have to be very minor for it not to trivialize the role she plays in the core storyline. 

The only conspiracy with EDI in the story is when she lied to the Alliance when Normandy was in drydock and told them she was a VI. Oh yeah, and when she pretends to be Joker's desginated walking droid, or whatever.

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

EVA as a software was mostly dead. What EDI struggled with was a backup security measure. If the security won, it would mean that EDI is kicked out and that software would regain control of the body and most likely kill anything it sees as a threat.

I don't think EVA was in any condition for fight back against EDI.

Agreed. 

I'll agree... with one caveat. It was stated to be a back-up processor, meaning it likely did have some or perhaps a copy of the entire AI, but was likely a one shot thing, meaning it charges up once, tries to copy back to the main processor since it was likely heavily compressed and if that fails it's all over.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...


3. Yes, but as IT shows, they also don't like to actually invalidate the feelings that their followers have for characters and storylines, hence why I still say that the hallucination begins at Harbinger's beam, since with the white fade out and the dreamlike state, it is a clear transition.

I agree. That isnt the only reason I believe the hallucination starts after harby's beam, but it's a huge one. For one, ANY two of your squadmates (including Liara) can be shown laying on the ground, dead, in the low EMS version of the Citadel Return. How then, would they craft the EC after that? It would be nearly impossible without at least one squadmate that cant die. Sure, they could do it somehow, but I dont think they would. 

[BatmanTurian]

Destructorlio wrote...

Oh my god, just went out into one of the other forums. Backed out slowly. There are some really mean-spirited, entitled, whiny, trolly, money-grubbing, close-minded, ungenerous folk out there, peeps.

I'm so glad everyone in the IT thread is so thoughtful and positive. Good work, all y'all's.

Yeah, sometimes I go out there on a lark, just to try to debate with people, forgetting that most of them are completely unreasonable and illogical. Then I come back here, with my tail between my legs and a fresh new memory of why I usually avoid the rest of BSN.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 29 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

Can someone remind me how TIM knew Shepard was going to Thessia?, the talk with the Asari councillor was in private.

He already/supposedly knew about the presence of the Prothean artifact there thanks to the data retrieved from Mars. He just failed to get at it because Kai Leng wasnt able to figure it out, plus he didnt have the cipher or Javik. 

[Arian Dynas]

Destructorlio wrote...

Oh my god, just went out into one of the other forums. Backed out slowly. There are some really mean-spirited, entitled, whiny, trolly, money-grubbing, close-minded, ungenerous folk out there, peeps.

I'm so glad everyone in the IT thread is so thoughtful and positive. Good work, all y'all's.

How bad is it out there?

Also, my last thing to say on the EDI argument, I have decided one thing. Joker points out that EDI is BASED on Reaper Code, but doesn't necessarily have actual Reaper Tech in her, which was also the explanation with Legion, that he had taken the Reaper Code and had pared out the parts he didn't like, basing an entirely new code off of the Reaper original,

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised at EDI's deception.

I would, because of the reasons I cited in my previous posts. Bioware is too good at crafting storylines to botch it up like that. If there is any conspiracy involving EDI, it would have to be very minor for it not to trivialize the role she plays in the core storyline. 

The only conspiracy with EDI in the story is when she lied to the Alliance when Normandy was in drydock and told them she was a VI. Oh yeah, and when she pretends to be Joker's desginated walking droid, or whatever.

When someone deceives others, he usually doesn't shout "I deceive. You see." I wouldn't call EDI's role as a Master Deceiver a trivialization. It could twist the story so much. I would surely want to see how the whole plot would end up.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 mai 2012 - 06:29 .

[dreamgazer]

Destructorlio wrote...

Oh my god, just went out into one of the other forums. Backed out slowly. There are some really mean-spirited, entitled, whiny, trolly, money-grubbing, close-minded, ungenerous folk out there, peeps.

I'm so glad everyone in the IT thread is so thoughtful and positive. Good work, all y'all's.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Oh my god, just went out into one of the other forums. Backed out slowly. There are some really mean-spirited, entitled, whiny, trolly, money-grubbing, close-minded, ungenerous folk out there, peeps.

I'm so glad everyone in the IT thread is so thoughtful and positive. Good work, all y'all's.

How bad is it out there?

Also, my last thing to say on the EDI argument, I have decided one thing. Joker points out that EDI is BASED on Reaper Code, but doesn't necessarily have actual Reaper Tech in her, which was also the explanation with Legion, that he had taken the Reaper Code and had pared out the parts he didn't like, basing an entirely new code off of the Reaper original,

Makes me wonder if, when combined, those two things are Bioware trying to tell us something we havent figured out yet. 

Both of the biggest parts of the non-reaper synthetic storyline have benefited from Reaper code in some fashion. Coincidence, or a pointer?

Modifié par HellishFiend, 29 mai 2012 - 05:53 .

[dreamgazer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

How bad is it out there?

Pretty rough. Lots of fire-spreading for the sake of seeing how high the flames can get.   I've found a handful of decent discussions about the moral implications of the ending, though.  Just a bit of trial and error.

[Domanese]

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

What interests me more is why when I made my slip up within the minute I had 4 or 5 people jumping on me going "WHY!?!" Like I was important or somthin.

Because you are important.

'Tis true. <3

Indeed he is. Giving us text walls of entertainment and nougats of fun.

[Bill Casey]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

EVA as a software was mostly dead. What EDI struggled with was a backup security measure. If the security won, it would mean that EDI is kicked out and that software would regain control of the body and most likely kill anything it sees as a threat.

I don't think EVA was in any condition for fight back against EDI.

Agreed. 

I'll agree... with one caveat. It was stated to be a back-up processor, meaning it likely did have some or perhaps a copy of the entire AI, but was likely a one shot thing, meaning it charges up once, tries to copy back to the main processor since it was likely heavily compressed and if that fails it's all over.

As large as Eva's ****** is, it's not a match for EDI's giant blue box...
Remember, EDI's primary function was electronic and cyber warfare...
She has the hardware advantage...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 mai 2012 - 06:08 .

[Rifneno]

[quote]byne wrote...

People also conveniently overlook the fact that the VI was ready to help you on Thessia until Kai Leng appeared, but when you talk to it on Cronos Station it says 'Security protocols overwritten. I will comply.'

Theres literally no reason for him to say that if his security protocols werent telling him not to give Shepard the information for some reason.[/quote]

Actually, if you watch the scenes one after the other, you'll notice that on Thessia the VI was dodging the question like a drell dodging a rocket. Shepard asks him what the catalyst is and he just blathers on about a bunch of other crap. On Cronos Station he says security is overridden and immediately gives a direct answer. The impression I got was that it wasn't telling him flat out "access denied" but rather wasting his time with random nonsense instead of answering.

[quote]Dwailing wrote...

Frak. No. I will NOT accept that the Reapers are anything more than complete monsters. I'm getting sick of people trying to say that the Reapers aren't so bad, they're just well intentioned extremists. NO!!!! They are complete monsters, and I will NOT stop until every. Last. One. Of. Them. Is turned into galactic space paste.[/quote]

I agree 110%. I'm tired as hell of excuses for the Reapers' horrors. They're evil, that's all there is to it. I don't want to see them justified for committing tens of thousands of genocides. I want to see them dead. I want to see them know they're losing the war and try diplomacy or surrender and I want to see the organics have the good sense to blow their messengers into the next world with that white flag still raised. I want to see the Reapers experiencing the same fear and panic they've inflicted on every other species, I want them to know each and every one of them is going to die and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. Then I want to see it happen.

**** moralizing their atrocities and **** treating them as anything but targets.

[quote]Dwailing wrote...

How is the logic flawless? The QUARIANS were responsible for starting the war with the Geth. The Geth didn't rebel, they fought to SURVIVE, like any organic race would have. And based on what I've seen of them, I do not believe that they would have rebelled otherwise.[/quote]

And the only evidence we have of the Zha'til's rebellion is Javik's word. Which is like believing a KKK member accusing a black guy of stealing something.

[quote]byne wrote...

Also godchild doesnt say synthetics will rebel against their creators, he says the created will always rebel against their creators.[/quote]

Excellent point. Back in first grade or something they had us make these godawful clay ashtrays. My parents still have it in a box somewhere. Thing has never once attempted to kill me.

[quote]BleedingUranium wrote...

Umm, sure, in the same way you could say certain people in the 1930/40s wanted to "deactivate" the Jews, the Jews didn't allow it, and the "shut down" didn't work. That can be seen as a form of rebellion.



Edit: okay, rebellion isn't always bad, I usually see it as good, but we're not actually talking about rebellion, we're talking about genocide, and rebelling against that isn't bad.[/quote]

... Whew. Bet that looked bad before the edit.

[quote]MaximizedAction wrote...

-Fixed the Ultralight Materials SMG weapon mod in multiplayer so it correctly affects weapon recharge
-Fixed an issue so Vanguards who are charging as they die are no longer being routed to the ground
-Fixed Geth prime and harvesters taking headshot bonus damage when they shouldn’t
-Fixed an issue so Drell Adept Reave audio plays at full volume for all players
-Made ammo consumables insta-reload and damage bonus[/quote]

In order:
1. All bow down before the hurricane. It is your deity now, and it is a god of fear.
2. YAY!
3. What? Other geth have heads, why not primes?
4. YAY!
5. YAY! Finally some use for the 255 of them I and everyone else who plays MP a lot has stocked up.

[quote]byne wrote...

Slavery: Because thats what a paragon would do![/quote]

Sarcasm. It's just intelligence on the offensive.

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

Skyrim. 300 hours of play total. Haven't touched it in weeks because of touchy mods.[/quote]

Gah. I haven't touched Skyrim since December, but I'm pretty sure I was over 300 hrs then. And the mod kit wasn't available then. I shudder to think of all that it has going for it now. I hope that unlike Morrowind and Oblivion the modders pay half as much, hell, a quarter as much attention to male PC armor/clothing as female. ... Doubt it though. =/

[quote]BleedingUranium wrote...

Javik goes into Jack's room? I didn't think I missed anything[/quote]

Nope. He just talks about how the teacher at Grissom used to live there and how violate and hateful she is/was. What was your first clue, four eyes? Anyway, I think he only does it if he's taken on the Grissom mission to meet her. One time I found him in the AI core. I won't say what was happening but I had a sudden urge to violate him with a chainsaw when it was over.

[quote]dmay7 wrote...

One of the many things I enjoyed from ME3 was listening in to some of the conversations your squad was having with each other in between missions (Ashley and Tali wanting to talk to Liara after Thessia, Liara asking if Garrus was ok sleeping in the Battery, Liara and Wrex bantering, Liara and Javik bantering (a lot of Liara ones lol), Garrus and Joker going over their favorite jokes, etc). It really added a sense of realism that your guy is not the only person anyone can talk to.[/quote]

Yeah, that is awesome. Conversations involving Garrus tend to be the best. His one with Legion and the one with Joker right after Tuchanka are both just... 10/10.

What I was also surprised to find out was on a subsequent playthrough, the characters noticed if I took a long time to chat with them. For instance if I didn't talk to Vega until most of the way through the genophage story, he commented that it was my first time down there and he assumed I didn't like him or something. Surprised me since the general rule with games is that time stands and waits for you. But hey, Bioware sure is Lazy™.

[quote]BleedingUranium wrote...

Joker bugging Liara about her hair-tenticles[/quote]

Am I the only one who never wondered about that til Joker brought it up, then couldn't stop wondering until they looked it up to see what Liara says if you ask her to tell him?

... Damnit, Joker. Leave the trolling to Javik, it's his gig.

[quote]byne wrote...

Meh, 300 hours is nothing.

Talk to me when you've wasted as much time on anything as I've wasted on WoW:[/quote]

Can't compare MMO's to single player games. And FYI, my shaman alone on Everquest has your entire WoW squad beat. I think he was at like 600 days when I last logged in (which would be the day before ME3 was released).

[quote]DJBare wrote...

I lost trust in EDI at this point www.youtube.com/watch her software has been manipulated by Cerberus and that hardware is purely a Cerberus creation utilizing reaper tech.
Oh, and Eva is awake while lying on that shelf in the AI core room, go check out her eye's after you get back to the Normandy after the mars mission. www.youtube.com/watch watch the eyes closely.

Intriguingly, EDI might not even be EDI, remember she states she only requires a single instance to become accustom to a concept, and Eva like EDI is an infiltration unit.[/quote]

Ugh, don't be Starbinger. Just becuase a synthetic is capable of lying doesn't mean they're out to get you. Couldn't see the eyes in that youtube you linked. Lastly, I had considered that too but found nothing to suggest it was the case. There was a struggle between them, but there's nothing to be sure that EDI was in fact the one who won. But like I said, I found nothing to suggest EDI (or rather, that body) might be a double agent.

Also, from a writing perspective it makes no sense for the entire story arc with Joker and EDI's relationship if it turns out EDI was just Eva and would go Benedict Arnold.

[quote]EpyonX3 wrote...

Thne why didn't Eva, posing as EDI, fly the normandy into the Sun?

Remember EDI is better programmed than EVa. Eva still had AI shackles while EDI did not.[/quote]

You see what you've done, DJBare? You've got me agreeing with EpyonX3. Are you happy now?!

[Arian Dynas]

Bill Casey wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

EVA as a software was mostly dead. What EDI struggled with was a backup security measure. If the security won, it would mean that EDI is kicked out and that software would regain control of the body and most likely kill anything it sees as a threat.

I don't think EVA was in any condition for fight back against EDI.

Agreed. 

I'll agree... with one caveat. It was stated to be a back-up processor, meaning it likely did have some or perhaps a copy of the entire AI, but was likely a one shot thing, meaning it charges up once, tries to copy back to the main processor since it was likely heavily compressed and if that fails it's all over.

As large as Eva's ****** is, it's not a match for EDI's giant blue box...
Remember, EDI's primary function was electronic and cyber warfare...
She has the hardware advantage...

Exactly, scientific proof that EDI's is bigger.