55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What's up with that list Arian compiles?

what list? O,o

There was a huge list of people a few pages ago.

Ahhh, yes, I think they are compilling a list of IT defenders, Neutral people and Literalists

I see. Can't wait for the final version then. I'm still missing on that list.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 mai 2012 - 10:37 .

[paxxton]

estebanus wrote...

It's the IT memorial wall.

Does he expect us all to be deceased by the time it's published?  jk

Modifié par paxxton, 29 mai 2012 - 10:40 .

[Rosewind]

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What's up with that list Arian compiles?

what list? O,o

There was a huge list of people a few pages ago.

Ahhh, yes, I think they are compilling a list of IT defenders, Neutral people and Literalists

I see. Can't wait for the final version then. I'm still missing on that list.

Think they going by page by page so if you came late in the topic maybe they haven't got their yet but strange your one the more active ones.

[prettz]

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What's up with that list Arian compiles?

what list? O,o

There was a huge list of people a few pages ago.

Ahhh, yes, I think they are compilling a list of IT defenders, Neutral people and Literalists

I see. Can't wait for the final version then. I'm still missing on that list.

 Arian  said if you are not on the list then he has not reach you in the old Indoctrination Theory thread . that means it's going to be a long time till my name gets on the list:pinched:

[Arian Dynas]

StElmo wrote...

can someone point me to cluse that shoe BioWare were working on EC before the debarcle?

Look no further than the Legendsave. They clearly had something planned, it's unique to ME3 and is only formed after beating the game.

Corik wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Lat2oo5 wrote...

In this case, I hope the dlc was planned before launch...

It almost certainly was- remember that Gamble tweeted TWO DAYS after launch that if we knew 'what was planned', the reaction would be different. Combine that with all of the in-game evidence for IT and you've got a pretty compelling argument for planning. 

That doesn't mean they can't incorporate fan feedback into particulars, like which chars we want to see more of and so forth, that is probably all they are referring to, not whether or not they will go with IT. 

It would be awesome that IT was truly planned since launch. And now, when they say they are incorporating fan feedback they mean they are changing the IT plot for the literalist's point of view. Hah, that would be... weird... xD

 

Not a chance, they went into  the enemy's own camp and asked them, and it came out overwhelmingly in favor of IT.

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

It's the IT memorial wall.

Does he expect us all to be deceased by the time it's published?  jk

 

You're on there Paxxton, check again.

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What's up with that list Arian compiles?

what list? O,o

There was a huge list of people a few pages ago.

Ahhh, yes, I think they are compilling a list of IT defenders, Neutral people and Literalists

I see. Can't wait for the final version then. I'm still missing on that list.

Think they going by page by page so if you came late in the topic maybe they haven't got their yet but strange your one the more active ones.

LOL. I hope that's a compliment.  As far as I remember I wasn't here until way after 1000 pages.

[Arian Dynas]

[quote]Rosewind wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]Corik wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]Corik wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

What's up with that list Arian compiles?[/quote]

what list? O,o

[/quote]
There was a huge list of people a few pages ago.[/quote]

Ahhh, yes, I think they are compilling a list of IT defenders, Neutral people and Literalists

[/quote]
I see. Can't wait for the final version then. I'm still missing on that list. [/quote]

Think they going by page by page so if you came late in the topic maybe they haven't got their yet but strange your one the more active ones.

[/quote]

We've only gotten to page 200 by now.

[quote]prettz wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]Corik wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]Corik wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

What's up with that list Arian compiles?[/quote]

what list? O,o

[/quote]
There was a huge list of people a few pages ago.[/quote]

Ahhh, yes, I think they are compilling a list of IT defenders, Neutral people and Literalists

[/quote]
I see. Can't wait for the final version then. I'm still missing on that list. [/quote]
 Arian  said if you are not on the list then he has not reach you in the old Indoctrination Theory thread . that means it's going to be a long time till my name gets on the list[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]



[/quote] 

No it's not. Look again.

[Arian Dynas]

paxxton wrote...
LOL. I hope that's a compliment.  As far as I remember I wasn't here until way after 1000 pages.

I made my own first appearance on page 299.

[Corik]

Arian, you seem to be pretty sure about IT being true. I wish I could... I agree IT seems to be planned, EC seems to be planned too, and everything points there. But I don't know... something inside me tells me to be "careful" about thinking the only possible scenario is Bioware delivering EC as IT says (or similar). I mean, even if I say there's no way IT can be false... It would hurt me a lot if it is... I can't explain it with words

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

We've only gotten to page 200 by now.

So I can't be there. My first post was way later, I think. Anyway, I checked. No paxxton there.

When you find my first post, let me know the page number, ok?

Modifié par paxxton, 29 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[Misguided Terran]

First, I apologize folks, but after reading this, I had to get something off my chest:

BleedingUranium wrote...

If there are more Mass Effects I'd bet they will be prequels.

The First Contact War, TIM's history, Rachni Wars/Krogan Rebellions, or the Protheans, or the Inusannon, or the Keepers, or the race that created the Reapers and the beginning of the Reapers.

Just some ideas

I'm sorry, but the thought of prequels just made me a bit sick.  What a boring time to come into all of this.  First off, we already know what happened, there's no room to stretch the writer's muscles.  Two, not enough showcasing everything in the galaxy, only a very limited view on what's going on.  And three, little humans involvement.  I know, that sounds great, I love the aliens, but the humans are a necessary viewpoint, for us.  The other aliens have such psychological differences it's difficult to actually know how they're thinking.  We've flown with Garrus for so long, but how does he really think?

Another reason why that would be bad?  Those comics and stories and everything is BECAUSE of the games, not the other way around.  If we base the next games off of the comics based on TiM, we gain nothing at all except for 60 bucks of wasted efforts.

The reason I support IT is because it allows room for a conceiveable, carry-on ending.  One where the galaxy isn't tech-nuked back to the stone age, yada yada.  But the main reason why I despise the ending is that there's no way to canonically carry these massive changes over to a further arc, these three vastly different scenarios would create such a chasm between players' experiences that the developers wouldn't be able to possibly handle all the cases.  It's possible the genophage cure wasn't a complete success, but the krogan still have an improved birth rate.  Maybe pockets of geth were finally accepted, while others are still branded as heretics.  Or, perhaps, there's far more to explore, maybe other galaxies, even.

Stepping back seems like such a waste, let us move forward, find what other interesting beings live in the stars.

Anywho, back to the speculating, you bunch!

Modifié par Misguided Terran, 29 mai 2012 - 11:01 .

[Rosewind]

Arian if you guys only have gotten to page 200 I wasn't even active till 700

[MaximizedAction]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Since it's a bit quiet thought I'd share some more DLC content predictions.

First, this is assuming IT is true in some form and the endings we got were not the true endings only a bridge to the rest of the story. I figure the first SP DLC we'll get is "Take Back Earth" provided free, picking up where we left off with consequences to our "hallucinated" choices, potential for our Shepard to die but if we've done things right and have high enough EMS/Reputation Shepard and company will pull through and boot the Reapers out of Sol System through means I can't yet guess at (the real Crucible, brute force, desperate measures etc). Whatever the means, the organics deliver a devastating strike against Reaper forces, but the Reapers war still continues.

The end of that DLC will be the real ending, for now. The next DLC will likely be something along the lines "Return to Menae" also provided free but will lead into a much bigger paid for DLC "Take Back Palaven" Details of which I'm too excited to speculate on.

After, another free DLC concerning the Genophage and possible Krogran rebellions with the Reaper war starting to settle down ("Return to Tuchanka"?) which would then again lead into another larger paid for DLC concerning the same. Certain Krogan who don't follow Wrex or Eve want war with the Salarians and you have to stop them either through diplomacy (high reputation) or through a show of force (alternative to high rep but with repercussions). If Wreav is alive instead, you have more Krogan to fight including Wreav himself, and a smaller Krogan faction (perhaps lead by Eve) oppose his plans for war and side with you, maybe even rescue Eve and the females from him assuming she lived.

Other potential DLC if the story continues past Earth:
Take Back...
Sur'kesh (c'mon we only went there once and for 2 whole seconds)
Thessia (the Reapers still there in asari space full force)
Rannoch (if the Reapers decided to take it in attempt to turn the Geth, or if the Geth are wiped out attempt to use their corpses as reprogrammed fodder to bolster numbers)
Omega (thrown in there somewhere in the story, last holdouts form Cerberus threatening to blow the station, Aria calling in a favor from and maybe Wrex if he lived)

After all these we'd need a true final battle against the Reapers. No idea where the scene would take place, open space at the edge of the galaxy? The core where the remains of the Collector base reside? Citadel space assuming it's been moved back to it's sector? [/speculations]

Repost, since I think it got lost.

Sounds like some interesting speculations. Actually fits very well into Jesse Houston's words, that winthin the war story, the DLC will make a great sense.
I mean, sure, DLC with gun action always makes 'sense' within an action-rpg genre, but within the story, that needs to make sense with respect to the war story. And wars are mostly fought on strategic warfronts. And Thessia, Palavan all are very important for their resp. sectors of the galaxy.

ME3 started the war, DLC will finish it.

But the best thing about all of that is, that defeating the Reapers will be done conventionally, without a deus-ex-machina. That way it'd finally all seem more realistic, that an all powerful Crucible. And with some free DLC they don't need a too convinient plot device to wrap up the threat artifitially.

But on the downside, I can imagine some fans using that as 'evidence' that BW not only screwed up the ending but now in addition to that decided, as the evil mustache-twisting coorporation they are, to use the fans' letdown to milk the franchise for even more DLC.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 mai 2012 - 11:24 .

[paxxton]

Misguided Terran wrote...

First, I apologize folks, but after reading this, I had to get something off my chest:

BleedingUranium wrote...

If there are more Mass Effects I'd bet they will be prequels.

The First Contact War, TIM's history, Rachni Wars/Krogan Rebellions, or the Protheans, or the Inusannon, or the Keepers, or the race that created the Reapers and the beginning of the Reapers.

Just some ideas

I'm sorry, but the thought of prequels just made me a bit sick.  What a boring time to come into all of this.  First off, we already know what happened, there's no room to stretch the writer's muscles.  Two, not enough showcasing everything in the galaxy, only a very limited view on what's going on.  And three, little humans involvement.  I know, that sounds great, I love the aliens, but the humans are a necessary viewpoint, for us.  The other aliens have such psychological differences it's difficult to actually know how they're thinking.  We've flown with Garrus for so long, but how does he really think?

Another reason why that would be bad?  Those comics and stories and everything is BECAUSE of the games, not the other way around.  If we base the next games off of the comics based on TiM, we gain nothing at all except for 60 bucks of wasted efforts.

The reason I support IT is because it allows room for a conceiveable, carry-on ending.  One where the galaxy isn't tech-nuked back to the stone age, yada yada.  But the main reason why I despise the ending is that there's no way to canonically carry these massive changes over to a further arc, these three vastly different scenarios would create such a chasm between players' experiences that the developers wouldn't be able to possibly handle all the cases.  It's possible the genophage cure wasn't a complete success, but the krogan still have an improved birth rate.  Maybe pockets of geth were finally accepted, while others are still branded as heretics.  Or, perhaps, there's far more to explore, maybe other galaxies, even.

Stepping back seems like such a waste, let us move forward, find what other interesting beings live in the stars.

Anywho, back to the speculating, you bunch!

There's also a possibility of Jon Grissom being the next protagonist. A fan-made movie is in the making featuring Mark Meer as Grissom.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 mai 2012 - 11:26 .

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

Arian if you guys only have gotten to page 200 I wasn't even active till 700

Don't worry. I'm sure that in the end what's left of us will be that Memorial Wall with our names carved in gold.  And it will last countless cycles. 

Modifié par paxxton, 29 mai 2012 - 11:34 .

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Arian if you guys only have gotten to page 200 I wasn't even active till 700

Don't worry. I'm sure that in the end (after EC) what's left of us will be that Memorial Wall with our names carved in gold.  And it will last countless cycles. 

HA, read that one in Javik's accent.
In general, henceforth, every sentence featuring the word 'cycle' shall be read in a Prothean accent.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 mai 2012 - 11:36 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MaximizedAction wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Since it's a bit quiet thought I'd share some more DLC content predictions.

First, this is assuming IT is true in some form and the endings we got were not the true endings only a bridge to the rest of the story. I figure the first SP DLC we'll get is "Take Back Earth" provided free, picking up where we left off with consequences to our "hallucinated" choices, potential for our Shepard to die but if we've done things right and have high enough EMS/Reputation Shepard and company will pull through and boot the Reapers out of Sol System through means I can't yet guess at (the real Crucible, brute force, desperate measures etc). Whatever the means, the organics deliver a devastating strike against Reaper forces, but the Reapers war still continues.

The end of that DLC will be the real ending, for now. The next DLC will likely be something along the lines "Return to Menae" also provided free but will lead into a much bigger paid for DLC "Take Back Palaven" Details of which I'm too excited to speculate on.

After, another free DLC concerning the Genophage and possible Krogran rebellions with the Reaper war starting to settle down ("Return to Tuchanka"?) which would then again lead into another larger paid for DLC concerning the same. Certain Krogan who don't follow Wrex or Eve want war with the Salarians and you have to stop them either through diplomacy (high reputation) or through a show of force (alternative to high rep but with repercussions). If Wreav is alive instead, you have more Krogan to fight including Wreav himself, and a smaller Krogan faction (perhaps lead by Eve) oppose his plans for war and side with you, maybe even rescue Eve and the females from him assuming she lived.

Other potential DLC if the story continues past Earth:
Take Back...
Sur'kesh (c'mon we only went there once and for 2 whole seconds)
Thessia (the Reapers still there in asari space full force)
Rannoch (if the Reapers decided to take it in attempt to turn the Geth, or if the Geth are wiped out attempt to use their corpses as reprogrammed fodder to bolster numbers)
Omega (thrown in there somewhere in the story, last holdouts form Cerberus threatening to blow the station, Aria calling in a favor from and maybe Wrex if he lived)

After all these we'd need a true final battle against the Reapers. No idea where the scene would take place, open space at the edge of the galaxy? The core where the remains of the Collector base reside? Citadel space assuming it's been moved back to it's sector? [/speculations]

Repost, since I think it got lost.

Sounds like some interesting speculations. Actually fits very well into Jesse Houston's words, that winthin the war story, the DLC will make a great sense.
I mean, sure, DLC with gun action always makes 'sense' within an action-rpg genre, but within the story, that needs to make sense with respect to the war story. And wars are mostly fought on strategic warfronts. And Thessia, Palavan all are very important for their resp. sectors of the galaxy.

ME3 started the war, DLC will finish it.

But the best thing about all of that is, that defeating the Reapers will be done conventionally, without a deus-ex-machina. That way it'd finally all seem more realistic, that an all powerful Crucible. And with some free DLC they don't need a too convinient plot device to wrap up the threat artifitially.

But on the downside, I can imagine some fans using that as 'evidence' that BW not only screwed up the ending but now in addition to that decided, as the evil mustache-twisting coorporation they are, to use the fans' letdown to milk the franchise for even more DLC.

Certianly an interesting idea, but until the Reapers suffer heavy losses in some unconventional way, winning conventionally is simply not a possibility.

One of the main pieces of evidence of this is the fact taht it takes 3 Dreadnoughts to take down 1 Sovereign class Reaper. I remember me and I think it was Arian discussed how many Dreadnoughts the entire alliance of species had in the very best case and ended up with a number somewhere just over 200.

Shortly said unless the Reapers only have around 66 Sovereign class Reapers we are seriusly screwed in that area.

Off course it dosent include the other ships, but it also dosent include Destroyer class Reapers or other support ships they have.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Arian if you guys only have gotten to page 200 I wasn't even active till 700

Don't worry. I'm sure that in the end (after EC) what's left of us will be that Memorial Wall with our names carved in gold.  And it will last countless cycles. 

HA, read that one in Javik's accent.
In general, henceforth, every sentence featuring the word 'cycle' shall be read in a Prothean accent.

Javik is a great squadmate. After installing From Ashes I did a whole new playthrough and took him on every mission to hear his remarks. They were...amusing.

[Arian Dynas]

Corik wrote...

Arian, you seem to be pretty sure about IT being true. I wish I could... I agree IT seems to be planned, EC seems to be planned too, and everything points there. But I don't know... something inside me tells me to be "careful" about thinking the only possible scenario is Bioware delivering EC as IT says (or similar). I mean, even if I say there's no way IT can be false... It would hurt me a lot if it is... I can't explain it with words

I know exactly how you feel... because I used to be in the same place. 

But here's a few things to remember.

Make it to where you have nothing to lose.

If Bioware makes the EC sub standard (unlikely, but for the sake of argument) or IT is not confirmed, decide, "can I live with this?" If you can, you have nothing to worry about. If you can't then you stop supporting Bioware and still have nothing to worry about.

But the fact is, if you are like me, and like Bioware, then even if Mass Effect's ending isn't the best, I choose to go on supporting them, because they have provided me with hours upon hours of fun. So I think they earned the trust. Besides, I can still be excited for DA3. 

Basically, realize that the endings, one way or another are not a life or death, win or lose suitation. You can still win, even if the endings suck.

But, now, the touchy feely **** out of the way, some practical reasons why IT makes sense.

Buisness;

Arian Dynas wrote...

Posted in another thread, but I figured I'd make a thread here and see what kind of reactions I get to this idea.

Arian Dynas wrote...

But, in address to the OP (And by the way, all the insults and such? Don't blame everyone who believes something different from what you do by the actions and words of a few elitists. And really, can you blame us for being defensive with the torches and pitchforks reaction we get?)

To be entirely honest with you?

I don't think the EC was planned at all.

Does that mean I doubt IT? Heck no.

I think that the EC is Bioware doing EXACTLY what they said, making things more clear so that people can comprehend the ending better. For the simple fact that I think and continue to beleive their DLC plan worked out something like this;

1). Start up the ANN twitter feed, giving "Live realtime accounts" of the war and the events leading up to it, place the timeline to start the invasion on March 6th.

2). Design Mass Effect 3, plant clues both subtle and obvious to draw the interest of the fans, the ending is designed to be strange, out of place, but ultimately fulfilling and capable of satisfying the fans for now. Multiplayer is implimented to keep fan interest up. Fans keep speculating about the strange, out of place ending, staying involved and interested where normally they would finish the game and that would be the end of their thoughts on the subject.

3). Do weekly multiplayer events to make sure that the fans keep playing, even the casual ones, also integrate a story into multiplayer, since A. That's what Bioware does, and B. It gets fans involved in the story, they get to feel like real soldiers in the war. Multiplayer events coincide with classified major operations in the war, usually announced by Admiral Hackett.

4). Release single player DLC which again raises fan involvement and interest and keeps them playing, as well as speculating as more evidence and information comes in over time, in the ANN timeline, it is announced via the Twitter feed (usually the day before) and launched on the dates the events take place on.

5). Release multiplayer packs, representing various forces that enter the war over time, such as the Quarians and more Krogan as forces swell and increase, reflecting the alliegance of various forces, as well as their maneuvers against the Reapers. Which also keeps ME3 in the front of fans minds, interested, involved. thinking about, speculating.

6). Keep updating the ANN twitter feed, which eventually reaches the date of Chronos Station and the Seige of Earth, then to great fanfare, a final ending DLC is released, in which it is revealed the ending was in fact a big mind **** and that Shepard was facing indoctrination, some fans having realized this before, they reveal the numbers from the legend saves, showing the number of people they "indoctrinated" before allowing people to download this DLC, which follows the choice from their Legendsave, forcing them to live with the choice they made, showing them a different result and mission depending on their choices.

7). Mac Walters and Casey Hudson share a bottle of bubbly with Dr. Musyka and Gamble.

Unfortunately, they flubbed the "satisifed" part of the ending, but got the "strange and out of place" part spot on, so they need to make it clearer that it was intentional, so to salvage their original plan, they have to make the EC, which they didn't expect to have to make, and thus they are forced to defend the artistic integrity of their ending, which was meant to be intentional, yet most fans refused to interpret from the get go, not having to expect interpretative value from a videogame. It explains their comments that they didn't expect to make the EC, why they seemed "hurt" that we didn't like the ending, why they defended their artistic integrity so hard, and why they refused to change the endings that are, from face value, a bunch of stinkers, but from IT perspective, are positively brilliant.

Though I don't expect them to be following their original plan now, from the fan backlash, they likely decided it was a far better idea to just make the EC and squeeze in the ending content they originally had planned, potentially sans combat to win back the fans.

And even better? The funny thing about it? They aren't losing out on this at all. The only thing on the line is their reputation, which assuming this whole thing was planned will get completely turned around.

Returned copies? They don't lose any money, the distributing franchises like Gamestop and Amazon do, (considering Origin flatly refused refunds) and the only thing they maybe lose from them is reputation, which if they turn it around by revealing this massive plot twist? They just earned back AND MORE.

Sold games? Put in the used bin? Cerberus network all over again baby, people buy those used games, they already got their money from producing them, now they get to charge an additional $15 for the actual ending. Cash money.

Well what about the people who sold their games? Wouldn't you go out to buy another copy of one of the greatest games ever that was suddenly vindicated by the most epic twist in videogame interactive storytelling history? Especially since now with an ending suited to it, it's perfect? They just sold the same game to a person TWICE. Jackpot.

Lost reputation due to the worst ending in videogame history? Not quite, it's now being actually advertised as "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!" and there's no advertisement like free advertisement, and you KNOW people will buy it out of morbid cuiriousity to see if the ending is really that bad, and plenty will remember the good parts and think "Hmm, that game was fantastic for 98%" and potentially go back to buy the other two. Ca-CHING!

And the prestige! (not the Christopher Nolan flick) Bioware suddenly will be rocketed to the top again as brilliant storytellers, completely vindicated in the eyes of even their most curmudgeonly fans after the supposed fiasco of DA2, as well as having pulled off a plot twist that would make M. Night Shamaylan cry in jealousy, something other developers will dream of copying, but being completely unable to, cementing Bioware's reputation as tops in the videogame storytelling biz. EA will have conquered their reputation as this evil monolithic company, concerned only with making money (yet ironically, will be making more bank than ever, hmm funny, seems people don't mind that when they get what they want out of it.)

And revealing something this big? After the treatment the ending got on the news, you can BET this will be plastered EVERYWHERE. Yet more free advertisement. Not to mention everyone and their literature professor will be talking about it and dissecting it ala Kubrickian methods for years to come (just like we are now) they will have cemented their place as videogame legends.

Not to mention this will be a HUGE jumping off point for an entire FRANCHISE, Mass Effect just became mainstream, nearly as much as Star Trek and Star Wars, with a feature length movie, comic books, videogames, statuettes, three award winning games, the top of their respective markets, novels, patches, tee shirts, anime, all dragged into the limelight.

Think about it greedily if you must, EA is full of smart, undeniably greedy people, do you honestly think they would possibly turn down a gold mine like this, with literally NO downside? With movies and anime and novels and every kind of merchandising swag under the sun coming out with the Mass Effect name, ME is a franchise they are pushing HARD. IT is a win-win suitation for them, if Bioware DIDN'T do it or plan it, EA would be leaning on them anyway TO do it, their artistic integrity be damned! And yet Bioware gets to pull off a first in gaming, a truly interactive, involving storytelling experience, involving REAL roleplaying (not just Paragon and Renegade choices) with actual interprative vaue just like any well written novel, and a genuine artistic value.

It is literally a win-win suitation. And If I can think of it, you can bet your bollocks that EA and Bioware would.

 

Artistic;

What strikes you as being artistic?

A universally hated and despised ending, ripped off from another videogame that's been done to death over and over, spits in the face of both established canon and the tone they themselves set in their game?

Or something that is long established as a major plot point of the games, they themselves admitted was at one time planned, but the mechanic scrapped, and basically transcends the medium it resides in, reaching out directly to the veiwer, making them feel as the character does (which Casey Hudson himself said in a January interveiw was one of the major plans he had) and truly integrating the player into the story, making it a truly interactive medium?

Look at it this way, I play Dungeons & Dragons, I am long time DM (Dungeon Master, for those not in the know, I play the role of the NPCs, monsters and act as referee) and if I were running a game with something like indoctrination, I know for certain I would NOT, NOT EVER, try to make a mechanic for it,(well, except maybe to track it.) It is faaaaar too much worry to deal with a mechanic for something like that, when there is a far easier and far more effective method. Cut out the middle man, trick the players. Besides, IT even has a precedent mechanics wise, in DA:O, they originally planned to work in this mechanic to track each companion's exposure to Darkspawn blood, so you would know if they were going to go Ghoul or needed to be turned into a Grey Warden.

Logical;

And let's look at Casey, hmm, involved in Knights of the Old Republic, home of the most beloved plot twist in gaming history, well crafted and conceived, and generally beloved, obvious in hindsight. Hmm, he's admitted he wants to make the player feel what Shepard feels. Not "make the player feel for Shepard," or "let the player make Shepard feel their emotions" no he wants the player to BECOME Shepard, to integrate into him, become a gestalt, Shepard is a conglomerate avatar of your personality meeting the character of Shepard, you feel as he does, his fear, his love, his hatred, his indescision, his stress and worry, the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders, and you feel his indoctrination.

Mac Walters, holder of a Psychology degree, so he has the know-how on how to screw with people's minds, knows what makes people tick and can create believeable characters ( I should know, Psych minor, and I use it to pump up my writing) he also knows about dream interpretation and post traumatic distress, the effects of stress upon the mind, as well as subliminal control and sugguestion.

Bioware is already shown as being Kubrickian in details, the Carnifex in Mordin's murder, all sorts of things. Why would they not be now?

Morever, they know how hated the ending is and why, why would they stick by it? Even more so, why would they want people to speculate if there is only the face value to it? Because there it is, scrawled at the bottom of Casey and Mac's notes, "Lots of Speculation from Everyone."

In fact, the notes themselves talk about ALOT of things that we don't see in the endings... or do we?

"Ending of the First Matrix" Hmm, let's see, that ends with Neo getting shot, beleiving he isn't the chosen one and nearing death before Trinity tells him she loves him, he comes back and explodes Smith from the inside. Weird, that has nothing to do with the ending... unless the ending as it is right now is Neo opening his eyes.

"Brave New World" A strange book. Major theme though? "Control of the populace through advanced technology" sound familiar?

I personally get quite alot out of these notes, but perhaps that's partially because I write down notes for my novel this way myself.

And Emotional:

Bioware's motto is "We make the games we like to play." Do you honestly think anyone at Bioware wants to play a game where you lose in the end?

Misguided Terran wrote...

First, I apologize folks, but after reading this, I had to get something off my chest:

BleedingUranium wrote...

If there are more Mass Effects I'd bet they will be prequels.

The First Contact War, TIM's history, Rachni Wars/Krogan Rebellions, or the Protheans, or the Inusannon, or the Keepers, or the race that created the Reapers and the beginning of the Reapers.

Just some ideas

I'm sorry, but the thought of prequels just made me a bit sick.  What a boring time to come into all of this.  First off, we already know what happened, there's no room to stretch the writer's muscles.  Two, not enough showcasing everything in the galaxy, only a very limited view on what's going on.  And three, little humans involvement.  I know, that sounds great, I love the aliens, but the humans are a necessary viewpoint, for us.  The other aliens have such psychological differences it's difficult to actually know how they're thinking.  We've flown with Garrus for so long, but how does he really think?

Another reason why that would be bad?  Those comics and stories and everything is BECAUSE of the games, not the other way around.  If we base the next games off of the comics based on TiM, we gain nothing at all except for 60 bucks of wasted efforts.

The reason I support IT is because it allows room for a conceiveable, carry-on ending.  One where the galaxy isn't tech-nuked back to the stone age, yada yada.  But the main reason why I despise the ending is that there's no way to canonically carry these massive changes over to a further arc, these three vastly different scenarios would create such a chasm between players' experiences that the developers wouldn't be able to possibly handle all the cases.  It's possible the genophage cure wasn't a complete success, but the krogan still have an improved birth rate.  Maybe pockets of geth were finally accepted, while others are still branded as heretics.  Or, perhaps, there's far more to explore, maybe other galaxies, even.

Stepping back seems like such a waste, let us move forward, find what other interesting beings live in the stars.

Anywho, back to the speculating, you bunch!

Also, it's such an exciting set up. THe galaxy is vastly politically destabilized, the Batarian Hedgemony is shattered, the Batarians now gathering into a proto government simply titled "The Brotherhood" forged by bonds of brotherhood under fire, potentially leading them to a brighter future.

The Salarians have lost a great deal of clout, Dalatrass Linron having been revealed as a schemer and plotter, trying to organize the continued cultural supression of an entire species, yet the STG is a band of unsung heroes who defied orders to do the right thing.

The Krogan are entering a political and social renaissance under the leadership of Wrex and Bakara, Mordin and Shepard having been elevated to the pillar of folk heroes, and the Krogan slowlt are growing to become a major political player in Citadel politics.

The Asari are now shown to have hidden Prothean technology, artificially stimulating their scientific growth without the knowledge of the other council races, and are generally seen as cowardly for having taken so long to have joined in the war effort, yet they were among the species hit the hardest, with their long life spans.

The Quarians, nomads no longer, finally have a home to return to, and even the grudging respect of the Citadel council, and soon will become a major power, supported by the Geth, whom now, for their part in the war, combined with their newly achived sentience have the begrudged blessing of the Council.


Cerberus is shattered, yet likely not destroyed, even if The Illusive Man is gone (which I personally doubt he is) Cerberus remains a powerful symbol to those filled with hate and xenophobia.

Earth is a crushed remnant of itself, Arcturus station, our capital and the parliament contained therein, a fused hunk of metal, yet Humanity was instrumental in the war, indeed a single human singlehandedly united the galaxy under one banner, and resolved centuries of conflict and disagreement. He even organized the pirates and bandits of the Terminus Systems, forming the largest mercenary force in recorded history and further uniting them under the banner of ruthless warlord, Aria T'Loak.

It's a hell of a set up, and the Milky Way, though it's future now shines considerably brighter without the looming shadow of the Reapers, is sure to have alot of problems coming it's way, and with Shepard either dead or retired, they will need someone who can clean up the mess.

[Arian Dynas]

paxxton wrote...

Misguided Terran wrote...

First, I apologize folks, but after reading this, I had to get something off my chest:

BleedingUranium wrote...

If there are more Mass Effects I'd bet they will be prequels.

The First Contact War, TIM's history, Rachni Wars/Krogan Rebellions, or the Protheans, or the Inusannon, or the Keepers, or the race that created the Reapers and the beginning of the Reapers.

Just some ideas

I'm sorry, but the thought of prequels just made me a bit sick.  What a boring time to come into all of this.  First off, we already know what happened, there's no room to stretch the writer's muscles.  Two, not enough showcasing everything in the galaxy, only a very limited view on what's going on.  And three, little humans involvement.  I know, that sounds great, I love the aliens, but the humans are a necessary viewpoint, for us.  The other aliens have such psychological differences it's difficult to actually know how they're thinking.  We've flown with Garrus for so long, but how does he really think?

Another reason why that would be bad?  Those comics and stories and everything is BECAUSE of the games, not the other way around.  If we base the next games off of the comics based on TiM, we gain nothing at all except for 60 bucks of wasted efforts.

The reason I support IT is because it allows room for a conceiveable, carry-on ending.  One where the galaxy isn't tech-nuked back to the stone age, yada yada.  But the main reason why I despise the ending is that there's no way to canonically carry these massive changes over to a further arc, these three vastly different scenarios would create such a chasm between players' experiences that the developers wouldn't be able to possibly handle all the cases.  It's possible the genophage cure wasn't a complete success, but the krogan still have an improved birth rate.  Maybe pockets of geth were finally accepted, while others are still branded as heretics.  Or, perhaps, there's far more to explore, maybe other galaxies, even.

Stepping back seems like such a waste, let us move forward, find what other interesting beings live in the stars.

Anywho, back to the speculating, you bunch!

There's also a possibility of Jon Grissom being the next protagonist. A fan-made movie is in the making featuring Mark Meer as Grissom.

Ah, Red Sand, an underdiscussed topic.

With the movie coming out, I highly doubt that we'll have a game featuring Grissom. Bioware doesn't like to do repeats of stories.

Also, does anyone think that Meer playing Grissom is evidence enough to point to him being Shep's father? Got the voice from Dad, everything else from his grandfather on his mother's side. 

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Arian if you guys only have gotten to page 200 I wasn't even active till 700

Don't worry. I'm sure that in the end (after EC) what's left of us will be that Memorial Wall with our names carved in gold.  And it will last countless cycles. 

HA, read that one in Javik's accent.
In general, henceforth, every sentence featuring the word 'cycle' shall be read in a Prothean accent.

And afta the clothes are done human, you must start tza spin cycle.

[Ravereth]

Arian Dynas wrote...

StElmo wrote...

can someone point me to cluse that shoe BioWare were working on EC before the debarcle?

Look no further than the Legendsave. They clearly had something planned, it's unique to ME3 and is only formed after beating the game.

I believe in many IT proofs but unfortunately  the Legendsave isn't one of them... 

Modifié par Ravereth, 29 mai 2012 - 11:47 .

[Arian Dynas]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Since it's a bit quiet thought I'd share some more DLC content predictions.

First, this is assuming IT is true in some form and the endings we got were not the true endings only a bridge to the rest of the story. I figure the first SP DLC we'll get is "Take Back Earth" provided free, picking up where we left off with consequences to our "hallucinated" choices, potential for our Shepard to die but if we've done things right and have high enough EMS/Reputation Shepard and company will pull through and boot the Reapers out of Sol System through means I can't yet guess at (the real Crucible, brute force, desperate measures etc). Whatever the means, the organics deliver a devastating strike against Reaper forces, but the Reapers war still continues.

The end of that DLC will be the real ending, for now. The next DLC will likely be something along the lines "Return to Menae" also provided free but will lead into a much bigger paid for DLC "Take Back Palaven" Details of which I'm too excited to speculate on.

After, another free DLC concerning the Genophage and possible Krogran rebellions with the Reaper war starting to settle down ("Return to Tuchanka"?) which would then again lead into another larger paid for DLC concerning the same. Certain Krogan who don't follow Wrex or Eve want war with the Salarians and you have to stop them either through diplomacy (high reputation) or through a show of force (alternative to high rep but with repercussions). If Wreav is alive instead, you have more Krogan to fight including Wreav himself, and a smaller Krogan faction (perhaps lead by Eve) oppose his plans for war and side with you, maybe even rescue Eve and the females from him assuming she lived.

Other potential DLC if the story continues past Earth:
Take Back...
Sur'kesh (c'mon we only went there once and for 2 whole seconds)
Thessia (the Reapers still there in asari space full force)
Rannoch (if the Reapers decided to take it in attempt to turn the Geth, or if the Geth are wiped out attempt to use their corpses as reprogrammed fodder to bolster numbers)
Omega (thrown in there somewhere in the story, last holdouts form Cerberus threatening to blow the station, Aria calling in a favor from and maybe Wrex if he lived)

After all these we'd need a true final battle against the Reapers. No idea where the scene would take place, open space at the edge of the galaxy? The core where the remains of the Collector base reside? Citadel space assuming it's been moved back to it's sector? [/speculations]

Repost, since I think it got lost.

Sounds like some interesting speculations. Actually fits very well into Jesse Houston's words, that winthin the war story, the DLC will make a great sense.
I mean, sure, DLC with gun action always makes 'sense' within an action-rpg genre, but within the story, that needs to make sense with respect to the war story. And wars are mostly fought on strategic warfronts. And Thessia, Palavan all are very important for their resp. sectors of the galaxy.

ME3 started the war, DLC will finish it.

But the best thing about all of that is, that defeating the Reapers will be done conventionally, without a deus-ex-machina. That way it'd finally all seem more realistic, that an all powerful Crucible. And with some free DLC they don't need a too convinient plot device to wrap up the threat artifitially.

But on the downside, I can imagine some fans using that as 'evidence' that BW not only screwed up the ending but now in addition to that decided, as the evil mustache-twisting coorporation they are, to use the fans' letdown to milk the franchise for even more DLC.

Certianly an interesting idea, but until the Reapers suffer heavy losses in some unconventional way, winning conventionally is simply not a possibility.

One of the main pieces of evidence of this is the fact taht it takes 3 Dreadnoughts to take down 1 Sovereign class Reaper. I remember me and I think it was Arian discussed how many Dreadnoughts the entire alliance of species had in the very best case and ended up with a number somewhere just over 200.

Shortly said unless the Reapers only have around 66 Sovereign class Reapers we are seriusly screwed in that area.

Off course it dosent include the other ships, but it also dosent include Destroyer class Reapers or other support ships they have.

Destroyers are a concern, but Reaper support ships are actually more liability in combat than they are support, since they require being piloted by a sentient reaper, are unarmed, though likely heavily armored.

THough we would need considerably less Dreadnoughts, since apparently with Thanix weapons, the need for four can be cut considerably. And recall, the Reapers apparently don't take too well to facing Geurilla tactics. The Asari had a great deal of succuess before they got forced into a ground war. We do have a chance of beating them conventionally. A slim one, and it would be horrendously costly, but it's possible, since there is the chance the Reapers could withdraw, choosing not to endanger further cycles by trying to cull us. But that one's not likely.

And yeah, the Reapers have far more than that.

Personally I still like your "The Crucible is a giant Mass Accelerator Cannon" idea, hence why it's going into my script. Though as I write, I keep feeling like I may have to throw this one out, or at least heavily edit it, since we are assuredly getting gameplay in the EC now, and it feels like too much time without Shepard.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 29 mai 2012 - 11:52 .

[MaximizedAction]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Since it's a bit quiet thought I'd share some more DLC content predictions.

First, this is assuming IT is true in some form and the endings we got were not the true endings only a bridge to the rest of the story. I figure the first SP DLC we'll get is "Take Back Earth" provided free, picking up where we left off with consequences to our "hallucinated" choices, potential for our Shepard to die but if we've done things right and have high enough EMS/Reputation Shepard and company will pull through and boot the Reapers out of Sol System through means I can't yet guess at (the real Crucible, brute force, desperate measures etc). Whatever the means, the organics deliver a devastating strike against Reaper forces, but the Reapers war still continues.

The end of that DLC will be the real ending, for now. The next DLC will likely be something along the lines "Return to Menae" also provided free but will lead into a much bigger paid for DLC "Take Back Palaven" Details of which I'm too excited to speculate on.

After, another free DLC concerning the Genophage and possible Krogran rebellions with the Reaper war starting to settle down ("Return to Tuchanka"?) which would then again lead into another larger paid for DLC concerning the same. Certain Krogan who don't follow Wrex or Eve want war with the Salarians and you have to stop them either through diplomacy (high reputation) or through a show of force (alternative to high rep but with repercussions). If Wreav is alive instead, you have more Krogan to fight including Wreav himself, and a smaller Krogan faction (perhaps lead by Eve) oppose his plans for war and side with you, maybe even rescue Eve and the females from him assuming she lived.

Other potential DLC if the story continues past Earth:
Take Back...
Sur'kesh (c'mon we only went there once and for 2 whole seconds)
Thessia (the Reapers still there in asari space full force)
Rannoch (if the Reapers decided to take it in attempt to turn the Geth, or if the Geth are wiped out attempt to use their corpses as reprogrammed fodder to bolster numbers)
Omega (thrown in there somewhere in the story, last holdouts form Cerberus threatening to blow the station, Aria calling in a favor from and maybe Wrex if he lived)

After all these we'd need a true final battle against the Reapers. No idea where the scene would take place, open space at the edge of the galaxy? The core where the remains of the Collector base reside? Citadel space assuming it's been moved back to it's sector? [/speculations]

Repost, since I think it got lost.

Sounds like some interesting speculations. Actually fits very well into Jesse Houston's words, that winthin the war story, the DLC will make a great sense.
I mean, sure, DLC with gun action always makes 'sense' within an action-rpg genre, but within the story, that needs to make sense with respect to the war story. And wars are mostly fought on strategic warfronts. And Thessia, Palavan all are very important for their resp. sectors of the galaxy.

ME3 started the war, DLC will finish it.

But the best thing about all of that is, that defeating the Reapers will be done conventionally, without a deus-ex-machina. That way it'd finally all seem more realistic, that an all powerful Crucible. And with some free DLC they don't need a too convinient plot device to wrap up the threat artifitially.

But on the downside, I can imagine some fans using that as 'evidence' that BW not only screwed up the ending but now in addition to that decided, as the evil mustache-twisting coorporation they are, to use the fans' letdown to milk the franchise for even more DLC.

Certianly an interesting idea, but until the Reapers suffer heavy losses in some unconventional way, winning conventionally is simply not a possibility.

One of the main pieces of evidence of this is the fact taht it takes 3 Dreadnoughts to take down 1 Sovereign class Reaper. I remember me and I think it was Arian discussed how many Dreadnoughts the entire alliance of species had in the very best case and ended up with a number somewhere just over 200.

Shortly said unless the Reapers only have around 66 Sovereign class Reapers we are seriusly screwed in that area.

Off course it dosent include the other ships, but it also dosent include Destroyer class Reapers or other support ships they have.

Of course, you are right. With the Sovereign being a counter-example against conventional warfare (and a few Destroyers hinting that), there must be a special tactic, but it hopefully won't be in the size of the Crucible.
It might be something Shepard does to Harbinger or something similar...something to injure them.
Or it's a trick strategy that guarantees a defeat against other Sovereign class Reapers, that Shepard finds out about.

Maybe the real TIM might play a greater role in it (that is, assuming that wasn't TIM in the ending)

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 mai 2012 - 11:53 .

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Misguided Terran wrote...

First, I apologize folks, but after reading this, I had to get something off my chest:

BleedingUranium wrote...

If there are more Mass Effects I'd bet they will be prequels.

The First Contact War, TIM's history, Rachni Wars/Krogan Rebellions, or the Protheans, or the Inusannon, or the Keepers, or the race that created the Reapers and the beginning of the Reapers.

Just some ideas

I'm sorry, but the thought of prequels just made me a bit sick.  What a boring time to come into all of this.  First off, we already know what happened, there's no room to stretch the writer's muscles.  Two, not enough showcasing everything in the galaxy, only a very limited view on what's going on.  And three, little humans involvement.  I know, that sounds great, I love the aliens, but the humans are a necessary viewpoint, for us.  The other aliens have such psychological differences it's difficult to actually know how they're thinking.  We've flown with Garrus for so long, but how does he really think?

Another reason why that would be bad?  Those comics and stories and everything is BECAUSE of the games, not the other way around.  If we base the next games off of the comics based on TiM, we gain nothing at all except for 60 bucks of wasted efforts.

The reason I support IT is because it allows room for a conceiveable, carry-on ending.  One where the galaxy isn't tech-nuked back to the stone age, yada yada.  But the main reason why I despise the ending is that there's no way to canonically carry these massive changes over to a further arc, these three vastly different scenarios would create such a chasm between players' experiences that the developers wouldn't be able to possibly handle all the cases.  It's possible the genophage cure wasn't a complete success, but the krogan still have an improved birth rate.  Maybe pockets of geth were finally accepted, while others are still branded as heretics.  Or, perhaps, there's far more to explore, maybe other galaxies, even.

Stepping back seems like such a waste, let us move forward, find what other interesting beings live in the stars.

Anywho, back to the speculating, you bunch!

There's also a possibility of Jon Grissom being the next protagonist. A fan-made movie is in the making featuring Mark Meer as Grissom.

Ah, Red Sand, an underdiscussed topic.

With the movie coming out, I highly doubt that we'll have a game featuring Grissom. Bioware doesn't like to do repeats of stories.

Also, does anyone think that Meer playing Grissom is evidence enough to point to him being Shep's father? Got the voice from Dad, everything else from his grandfather on his mother's side. 

I think you might be confusing Paul Grayson (red sand addict) and Jon Grissom (first human to safely travel through the Charon Relay and come back in one piece).

Modifié par paxxton, 29 mai 2012 - 11:55 .