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[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Anyway, I wrote this big old wall of text and even broke it up into three different posts, all for you guys to more easily respond, so SOME OF YOU ARE GOING TO GO BACK AND READ IT THIS TIME GODDAMN IT! 

I'm busy playing multiplayer though!

I'm currently playing my ceberus phoenix adept. Definitely my new favorite adept.

I named him Fawkes.

[MaximizedAction]

Arian Dynas wrote...

*snip*

Also, some words of wisdom from Uncle Jo.

Uncle Jo says...

I don't think that the "visual" clues (aside from the dreams) to the IT are the decisive point, because most of players (aside from the most insightful or cunning ones) could easily oversee them or don't pay them attention, especially during the first playthrough. They only give you, at best, the feeling that something's odd. They play their most important role only afterwards. I'll come to this later.

IMO the most important point of the ending and the IT is our ability to trust/doubt and for what reasons. That's exactly what BW wanted to test by the player. 

Either you chose to believe the Catalyst/Harbinger or not. 

It was easy to overcome the first indoc attempt which took the form of TIM in Shep's mind. Too obvious. Although I'm sure that there were some critical failures by some players at this point.

I've read in many threads that many players said that Harbinger/Starbrat is right because he has NO reason to lie to us, because he could have let us bleeding out in the activation room instead of us "saving us" and give us a choice to "end" the war.
Furthermore "he's older, more intelligent, more advanced, he knows all the things better than us".
Unconsciously the player who think like this, gave already into the first step of indoctrination, to which he has till now successfully resisted. He began to forget who he is. What he came to do.

Remember the principle of inception : Implementation of a simple idea "The Reapers are right".

From this point the player has to follow Harbinger's logic or everything that happens after will make no sense. Yet the second step, the choices : two of them seem are seductive and appeal, as you said, to the sense of sacrifice of Shep (but the Reapers "survive"). Only one, the less appealing, sends the Reapers to hell, but a great costs: genocide of the Geth, lost of the technology, death of EDI. 

Now, the player is trapped by his own logic, since he decided to trust Harbinger. He has to believe that all choices are real. Furthermore the (flawed) argument of the tech singularity induced fear in the mind of the player. This adds to the confusion and distracts him to the point, where he doesn't see anymore that Control and Synthesis are not only risky/crazy options but still allow to the Reapers to survive/win.

But the indoctrination of an organic is a difficult process with no guarantee. There still are some players who said to the space troll "Go to hell" and chose Destroy, thus overcoming the indoc attempt without even knowing what's really going on. Instinct and willpower are the things that make indoctrination hazardous for the Reapers.

Now if you reject the crap of the Starbrat, you'll ask yourself, who he really is, why he apparently gave us the possibility to destroy him, why he indeed let us survive after "TIM's encounter", what the hell did really happen in the control room, why there where ony Marauder Shields and three husks to guard the beam, what really happened AFTER Harbinger blasted Shep. Was it real?
But if it wasn't real, how could BW do not foreshadow it and give me some clues during the game? Did I eventually missed them? Then you'll go on hunting hints from the very beginning of the game and only then you'll find out that they were there, as clear as the day.

But if you don't doubt the Catalyst, you'll never see them or take them seriously.

I'm probably repeating all that was already said but that's how I see it now and what makes me firmly believe that the IT was true and intended from the beginning. 

Did you trust the Catalyst or not? Was he right? How high was your resolve? IMO that was what BW wanted to see and what speculations are about. The cliffhanger ending makes its whole sense in this context to me.

Even if it was said, it is good to have such a summary that I can agree with to 100%. In fact, it's so good, it'd deserve to have it linked to by @byne.

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

*snip*

Even if it was said, it is good to have such a summary that I can agree with to 100%. In fact, it's so good, it'd deserve to have it linked to by @byne.

Wait... so Unca Jo gets linked in the OP but I don't? 

(Kidding, mostly.)

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Anyway, I wrote this big old wall of text and even broke it up into three different posts, all for you guys to more easily respond, so SOME OF YOU ARE GOING TO GO BACK AND READ IT THIS TIME GODDAMN IT! 

I'm busy playing multiplayer though!

I'm currently playing my ceberus phoenix adept. Definitely my new favorite adept.

I named him Fawkes.

Oh, so the pheonixes were ex- Cerberus then?

[MaximizedAction]

Arian Dynas wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

*snip*

Even if it was said, it is good to have such a summary that I can agree with to 100%. In fact, it's so good, it'd deserve to have it linked to by @byne.

Wait... so Unca Jo gets linked in the OP but I don't? 

(Kidding, mostly.)

Ah, finish yer script first, then we'll see.

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

*snip*

Even if it was said, it is good to have such a summary that I can agree with to 100%. In fact, it's so good, it'd deserve to have it linked to by @byne.

Wait... so Unca Jo gets linked in the OP but I don't? 

(Kidding, mostly.)

Ah, finish yer script first, then we'll see.

But...but.... the more I write it lately, the more it feels wrong...

[Rifneno]

Corik wrote...

I can imagine the situation at Bioware's offices.

-Dev. A: Oh ****, we have run out of space... we need to cut something.
-Dev. B: Oh, ok, don't worry. Take out the roof from the building where the child was playing. That would make the fans freak out.

Seriously. That's obviously deliberate. They took out the roof for some reason. Maybe they wanted us to keep speculating about he child being real all the time or just an illusion except the first time.

QFT. With all the crap in Vancouver, that's what they decided to remove? Whoever honestly thinks that, get a stepstool or you'll never reach those straws.

Corik wrote...

I would agreee IF the vent on Earth didn't make any noise before Shepard went to see what was in there. But all of us heard the noise after Anderson crossed the door. That's why we went to check the vent. If the boy made noise then, he should make noise when he disappeared.

In fact, If we heard the noise at the door, we should hear it more clearly when standing just next to the vent!

One of the lesser quoted but IMO very compelling parts of IT is the audio in that scene. I'll repeat it here because many of the newer readers probably haven't heard it.

First, as you say, Shepard is distracted by the sound of the kid in the vent. He goes to look and "An End Once and For All" (the theme that also plays at the ending with starbinger) and all background audio is cut off. You can't hear the Reapers in the background or anything. Just the kid and that song. Shepard's undivided attention is on the kid. When Anderson calls Shepard and distracts him, background audio comes back and the kid disappears into thin air without any exiting noise (which as we established is impossible). This is the most interesting part: the first thing you hear from background audio returning is a Reaper growl. If you have surround sound, you can tell that it is coming from all channels. It is not coming from outside like the rest of the Reaper noise. In the books, when Paul Grayson would get distracted from an indoctrination hallucination, he would hear a growl as if losing his attention frustrated the Reaper.

The vent scene is just jam packed with IT clues. Wall to wall. There's the audio, that unique "shock to the head" warning label that makes no sense, the utterly creepy dialogue of the kid...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Oh, and to add, Anderson never once acknowledges the kids presence or the reason Shepard is talking to an empty air vent.

What for? It's perfectly normal and widely accepted around the Galaxy.

He's commander Shepard and that's his favourite ventilation shaft on Earth.

Hah! But seriously, from Anderson's perspective it looked like Shepard was looking for something. He appeared when Shepard silently stretched his hand into the vent.

"Shepard!"
"Sir! I lost my contacts in this vent!"
"How the hell did you... nevermind, we've got to get out of here!"

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh, so the pheonixes were ex- Cerberus then?

Yeah. Wondering if it was originally going to be something else though... somebody dissected the files and found that the DLC has a MP version of Javik's particle rifle which didn't wind up being used in the live version.

Speaking of updates, the patch sucks quad. The SMG ULM bug and the vanguard bug are both alive and well, just slightly different. I was playing a round with my kroguard on the new Firebase Jade map, and as you can see, my planet (Tuchanka) needed me:

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Anyway, I wrote this big old wall of text and even broke it up into three different posts, all for you guys to more easily respond, so SOME OF YOU ARE GOING TO GO BACK AND READ IT THIS TIME GODDAMN IT! 

I'm busy playing multiplayer though!

I'm currently playing my ceberus phoenix adept. Definitely my new favorite adept.

I named him Fawkes.

Oh, so the pheonixes were ex- Cerberus then?

Aye, their description says they are Project Phoenix subjects.

[byne]

Yknow, thinking about the characters added in DLC.

We have Geth characters.

We have Cerberus defectors.

That only leaves one enemy type left we cant play as.

I vote we get Marauder Shields as a playable character in multiplayer next DLC.

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Anyway, I wrote this big old wall of text and even broke it up into three different posts, all for you guys to more easily respond, so SOME OF YOU ARE GOING TO GO BACK AND READ IT THIS TIME GODDAMN IT! 

I'm busy playing multiplayer though!

I'm currently playing my ceberus phoenix adept. Definitely my new favorite adept.

I named him Fawkes.

Oh, so the pheonixes were ex- Cerberus then?

Aye, their description says they are Project Phoenix subjects.

Well THAT's an obvious single player DLC hook.

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

Yknow, thinking about the characters added in DLC.

We have Geth characters.

We have Cerberus defectors.

That only leaves one enemy type left we cant play as.

I vote we get Marauder Shields as a playable character in multiplayer next DLC.

First!

[byne]

Rifneno wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, thinking about the characters added in DLC.

We have Geth characters.

We have Cerberus defectors.

That only leaves one enemy type left we cant play as.

I vote we get Marauder Shields as a playable character in multiplayer next DLC.

First!

Great minds think alike!

[byne]

I've gotta say, upgrading lash so that is works even on targets with shields or barriers might be the most fun upgrade to any power ever.

I just lashed a phantom and threw her off a cliff.

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

I've gotta say, upgrading lash so that is works even on targets with shields or barriers might be the most fun upgrade to any power ever.

I just lashed a phantom and threw her off a cliff.

I haven't gotten any of the new gear yet.   That Krysae Sniper Rifle looks awesome.  Also, I really want a Vorcha.

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

I've gotta say, upgrading lash so that is works even on targets with shields or barriers might be the most fun upgrade to any power ever.

I just lashed a phantom and threw her off a cliff.

Bah, I still haven't gotten anything yet, and I just spent over 500.000 credits! The only stuff I got was a claymore upgrade, a kishock upgrade, the arc pistol, A saber, and a widow!

[Lat2oo5]

I have always wondering why Bioware would change the options of the dialogues... I mean, is it that hard to put all of them? Even in non important situations this happens, the neutral one just disappeared...... Even from the very beginning.







Perharps next Mass Effect will be like this...


 

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

I've gotta say, upgrading lash so that is works even on targets with shields or barriers might be the most fun upgrade to any power ever.

I just lashed a phantom and threw her off a cliff.

I haven't gotten any of the new gear yet.   That Krysae Sniper Rifle looks awesome.  Also, I really want a Vorcha.

AAAARRRHH!!! YOU NO PLAY VORCHA! GET SHOT IMMEDIATELY! BANSHEE'D AT BEGINNING OF WAVE!

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

I've gotta say, upgrading lash so that is works even on targets with shields or barriers might be the most fun upgrade to any power ever.

I just lashed a phantom and threw her off a cliff.

I haven't gotten any of the new gear yet.   That Krysae Sniper Rifle looks awesome.  Also, I really want a Vorcha.

AAAARRRHH!!! YOU NO PLAY VORCHA! GET SHOT IMMEDIATELY! BANSHEE'D AT BEGINNING OF WAVE!

Soooo, I take it you had a rough time playing as a Vorcha?

[Dwailing]

Lat2oo5 wrote...

I have always wondering why Bioware would change the options of the dialogues... I mean, is it that hard to put all of them? Even in non important situations this happens, the neutral one just disappeared...... Even from the very beginning.







Perharps next Mass Effect will be like this...


 

I believe BW justified this as something to the effect of Shepard doesn't have time to be neutral now.  You're with him or against him.  You actually have to take a side and choose what you believe.

Modifié par Dwailing, 29 mai 2012 - 10:48 .

[D.Sharrah]

Decided to play the game today...got alway up to Rannoch w/my Renegon...but doing so, I miss 20 pages (or so) on here...anything interesting today?

[Arian Dynas]

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

I've gotta say, upgrading lash so that is works even on targets with shields or barriers might be the most fun upgrade to any power ever.

I just lashed a phantom and threw her off a cliff.

Bah, I still haven't gotten anything yet, and I just spent over 500.000 credits! The only stuff I got was a claymore upgrade, a kishock upgrade, the arc pistol, A saber, and a widow!

Also;
http://social.biowar...5808/2#12305542  check your thread, the cavalry has arrived.

And once again, I reiterate;

GO BACK ONE PAGE AND READ MY WALL OF TEXT DAMN IT! I PUT ALOT OF EFFORT INTO IT ONLY FOR YOU PEOPLE TO READ IT!

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

I've gotta say, upgrading lash so that is works even on targets with shields or barriers might be the most fun upgrade to any power ever.

I just lashed a phantom and threw her off a cliff.

I haven't gotten any of the new gear yet.   That Krysae Sniper Rifle looks awesome.  Also, I really want a Vorcha.

AAAARRRHH!!! YOU NO PLAY VORCHA! GET SHOT IMMEDIATELY! BANSHEE'D AT BEGINNING OF WAVE!

Soooo, I take it you had a rough time playing as a Vorcha?

Haven't got one yet

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...


I believe BW justified this as something to the effect of Shepard doesn't have time to be neutral now.  You're with him or against him.  You actually have to take a side and choose what you believe.

I'm trying really hard to think of any time in either of the previous games where I actually chose a neutral option.

Only one I can come up with is where picking paragon would have resulted in me flirting with Jacob.

I dont miss the neutral option at all.

Modifié par byne, 29 mai 2012 - 10:59 .

[Rifneno]

byne wrote...

I'm trying really hard to think of any time in either of the previous games where I actually chose a neutral option.

Only one I can come up with is where picking paragon would have resulted in me flirting with Jacob.

I dont miss the neutral option at all.

QFT.  Romance options should ALWAYS be seperate from the usual three.  =/

[Lat2oo5]

Sorry, I cant quote. But look at the second image, why didnt they put the paragon choice or all of them just like in the first game? I am getting more and more paranoid about Mass Effect...