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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#876
TSA_383

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SS2Dante wrote...

 Righto, here. I've highlighted the points that are interesting.

Red
Posted Image

Blue
Posted Image

Green
Posted Image


Red files are in every ending and the red cinematics are prefixed by guardianEnd, rather than the colour.

Not an expert so if I've made a mistake lemme know, but I think this is a rather strong hint.


It's not the red cinematics that are prefixed guardianEnd, but the sound of you shooting the destroy tube.
Which, on its own, is pretty interesting given that the child is referred to as guardian throughout...
Curious about the red cinematics though - the original code suggested that under certain conditions (didn't specify) you'd be able to use a "see other endings" menu.

Post-EC non-standard game over?

Modifié par TSA_383, 15 mai 2012 - 07:06 .


#877
Parabolee77

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Here is something possibly interesting. Might be nothing but I was playing ME2 last night and a noticed a striking similarity between Zorya (the planet Zaeed's loyalty mission takes place on) and the dream planet at the end.

Dream Planet -

Posted Image

Zorya - 

Posted Image

Modifié par Parabolee77, 15 mai 2012 - 07:10 .


#878
SS2Dante

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TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

 Righto, here. I've highlighted the points that are interesting.

Red
Posted Image

Blue
Posted Image

Green
Posted Image


Red files are in every ending and the red cinematics are prefixed by guardianEnd, rather than the colour.

Not an expert so if I've made a mistake lemme know, but I think this is a rather strong hint.


It's not the red cinematics that are prefixed guardianEnd, but the sound of you shooting the destroy tube.
Which, on its own, is pretty interesting given that the child is referred to as guardian throughout...
Curious about the red cinematics though - the original code suggested that under certain conditions (didn't specify) you'd be able to use a "see other endings" menu.

Post-EC non-standard game over?


Ah, I see. What are the blue and green equivalents? Also, do you know what the guardian pan up is?

#879
Ravereth

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Parabolee77 wrote...

Here is something possibly interesting. Might be nothing but I was playing ME2 last night and a noticed a striking similarity between Zorya (the planet Zaeed's loyalty mission takes place on) and the dream planet at the end.

Dream Planet -

Posted Image

Zorya - 

Posted Image


http://social.biowar...3/1931#11791371  :whistle:

#880
draken-heart

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Parabolee77 wrote...

Here is something possibly interesting. Might be nothing but I was playing ME2 last night and a noticed a striking similarity between Zorya (the planet Zaeed's loyalty mission takes place on) and the dream planet at the end.

Dream Planet -

Posted Image

Zorya - 

Posted Image


that is a nice find, and a big space jump.

#881
SS2Dante

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Parabolee77 wrote...

Here is something possibly interesting. Might be nothing but I was playing ME2 last night and a noticed a striking similarity between Zorya (the planet Zaeed's loyalty mission takes place on) and the dream planet at the end.

Dream Planet -

Posted Image

Zorya - 

Posted Image


We had a comparison image to show that the treeline in the ending is exactly the same as...I think it was this planet, can anyone remind me or find the image?

EDIT - nevermind, two above got it.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 15 mai 2012 - 07:15 .


#882
Parabolee77

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Ravereth wrote...

Parabolee77 wrote...

Here is something possibly interesting. Might be nothing but I was playing ME2 last night and a noticed a striking similarity between Zorya (the planet Zaeed's loyalty mission takes place on) and the dream planet at the end.

Dream Planet -

Posted Image

Zorya - 

Posted Image


http://social.biowar...3/1931#11791371  :whistle:




Oh nice. It was simply impossible for me to keep up with that thread :)

More evidence of Shepard constructing things from memory? Or Bioware reusing asetts? 

Modifié par Parabolee77, 15 mai 2012 - 07:18 .


#883
paxxton

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MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

You know what, maybe there is a pattern to all this inconsistencies. BioWare made it this way so the player can spot them and figure out that the ending sequences aren't real, that they are dreams. Actually the same kind of violation of physical laws happens in real dreams at nighttime. There is no hidden meaning in the sudden change of guns.


Shepard releases the Rachni queen with a predator: www.youtube.com/watch
Though I don't remember if my Shep used a Predator, too.

And what about killing Miranda's father? Did Shepard have a different gun than equipped there? It would look hilarious if he tried to shoot him from a shotgun in that scene.

As far as I remember there's always a pistol in all the cutscenes. Usually the equipped one.

Modifié par paxxton, 15 mai 2012 - 07:28 .


#884
TSA_383

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SS2Dante wrote...

Ah, I see. What are the blue and green equivalents? Also, do you know what the guardian pan up is?

There aren't really blue/green equivalents - and pan up is the sound of the explosion that envelops shep at the end.

#885
spotlessvoid

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

DaWolf wrote...

Anyone mentioned this before?:

I just finished The Arrival DLC and when Shep gets knocked to the ground by the reaper artifact he is sourrounded by the same "oily shadows" as you can see in the ending sequence with TIM and Anderson...


That is interesting. But even if the ending were 'real' than the oily shadows would be there because it's the Reapers that are controlling TIM.


To me TIM controlling Shepard is indoctrination by proxxy if that sequence is taken literally. When that fails Harbinger assumes direct control of the process and attempts to indoctrinate Shepard directly.

Personally, I think everything post beam is hallucination.

Regardless, TIM controlling Shepard is evidence that Bioware incorporated indoctrination into the ending to some degree, bare minimum. Is it that much of a stretch then to think indoctrination plays more of a role then at first meets the eye

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 15 mai 2012 - 07:28 .


#886
SS2Dante

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TSA_383 wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

Ah, I see. What are the blue and green equivalents? Also, do you know what the guardian pan up is?

There aren't really blue/green equivalents - and pan up is the sound of the explosion that envelops shep at the end.


But there are - I highlighted them. The sections labelled end_(colour)_pt1, pt2 , pt3 and pt 4? Unless I've made a mistake?

#887
pseudonymic

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 the biggest "loophole" with IT, imho, is the fact that the extended cut DLC will be free.

#888
MaximizedAction

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paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

You know what, maybe there is a pattern to all this inconsistencies. BioWare made it this way so the player can spot them and figure out that the ending sequences aren't real, that they are dreams. Actually the same kind of violation of physical laws happens in real dreams at nighttime. There is no hidden meaning in the sudden change of guns.


Shepard releases the Rachni queen with a predator: www.youtube.com/watch
Though I don't remember if my Shep used a Predator, too.

And what about killing Miranda's father? Did Shepard have a different gun than equipped there? It would look hilarious if he tried to shoot him from a shotgun in that scene.

As far as I remember there's always a pistol in all the cutscenes. Usually the equipped one.


Again, I don't remember my Shep's exact pistol model in the rachni scene, but I remember it was NOT one that I equipped. Before I saw the Carnifex and the Predator being discussed in this thread, I couldn't tell them apart.
But I recognized them roughly and it was one of the two's that was used by my Shep.

For Miranda's dad, look it up on youtube.

#889
Big Bad

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i am on my phone and cannot post links but there is a speculation-worthy tweet that was posted on the ME3 twitter page about half an hour ago.

#890
Tirian Thorn

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pseudonymic wrote...

 the biggest "loophole" with IT, imho, is the fact that the extended cut DLC will be free.


Please clarify. 

Because I don't believe the DLC being free helps or hinders IT. 

#891
MaximizedAction

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edit: ME3 DLC info leak fake.
NM.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 mai 2012 - 07:53 .


#892
Parabolee77

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Big Bad wrote...

i am on my phone and cannot post links but there is a speculation-worthy tweet that was posted on the ME3 twitter page about half an hour ago.


This one? - https://twitter.com/...476953054363648

Posted Image

Caitlyn B
@GeekyAthlete14 May 12@GeekyAthlete @masseffect
by good I mean happy. Just give me the option at least, if I do everything right...

Posted Image

Mass Effect
@masseffect@GeekyAthlete
Hopefully your concerns will be addressed with the Extended Cut DLC. And thanks so much for your feedback!

Modifié par Parabolee77, 15 mai 2012 - 07:45 .


#893
Big Bad

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@Parabolee77 - that's the one!

#894
Boradam

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a stupid as-- waldstr18 wrote...

im gone a few days and you guys start seeing reflections of trees on the floor?


Posted Image

Just in case anybody still doubts the tree reflections actually existing, this was taken from a flycam video of the ending.


You can view it yourself here in case you're wanting to see the video.

Modifié par Boradam, 15 mai 2012 - 07:52 .


#895
Jadebaby

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pseudonymic wrote...

 the biggest "loophole" with IT, imho, is the fact that the extended cut DLC will be free.


They also said that we'd have 16 different endings..... Posted Image

But I agree. If it indeed will be free. As if EA would come out right away and say "well you're going to have to pay."

#896
Arian Dynas

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kkr wrote...

bump


No need to bump in this thread son, it moves fast enough on its own.

Anywho, wall of text time.

Got another letter here... from a Nezrathul.

Nezrathul writes...
In a discussion with some friends we came up with some interesting theories about Shepard's squadmates. When I tried to check if you guys already talked about it in the super thread, it was already locked :(

We asked ourselves, what if the 2 squadmates you bring with you when assaulting the beam are knocked out just like Shepard and have to go through the same or a similar experience. 
Will they wake up indoctrinated? Which squaddie is less likely to succumb to it, which one might end up as a reaper doomsday device etc. 

Maybe you already talked about this in depth, but we found the idea intriguing. Did this ever come up? Thanks in advance.

Cheers! 


estebanus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

estebanus wrote...

I found something pretty interesting about the carnifex, but I'm not sure if it really helps in any way. 

As we know, the carnifex appears in ME3 when something bad is about to happen, for example wehn you shoot Mordin, or when you kill Wrex. Hell, even Ashley/Kaidan wield a carnifex when you meet them on the citadel! 

So anyway, here's what I found: Carnifex is actually a latin word. 
And guess what that word means? 

It means "Executioner." 

So my thoughts are, that the Carnifex only appears in those places where someone is "executed!" 
Maybe that's why the predator and carnifex are loaded in the "destroy" ending! Because you "Execute" the reapers, while still holding on to your own goal!


I like this a lot, and I think you're a sharp cookie for piecing that together, but that's asking a leap of interpretive faith in BioWare's even minor intentions that I'm not sure I could take. 

 

I just had latin today, and I just happened to see the word in my dictionary. 

The first thing I thought when I saw that was, "HOLY.COW." (well, actually there were a few more swear words involved, but you get the general idea!) 

I still think that it's pretty interesting...


Quid quid latine dictum sit. Altum videtur. 

UrgedDuke wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

All I know for sure is your carnifex changes to a predator for a second once u choose destroy


yes but I don't see why that is important

 

Considering you see it MORPH into a predator from a Carnifex makes it more significant.

Also, far more interesting is the fact that throughout the entire ending sequence, rather than the usual Carnifex reload, a motion cocking back the rack on top of the gun, you instead have a different reload, similar to pushing a fresh magazine into the gun. What other gun has this animation? The Predator.

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
*snip*

As has been said several times. 

There is difference in surviving small mostly light ground or air wielded explosive weaponry and indirect reaper beam attacks (we neevr see Harbinger actually hitting Shepard unlike his point precision beams on everything else)...

...as opposed to a several kilometer wide fireball with a strength in megaton class (and considering that the Citadel is made from quantum shielded material, probably quite far up the megaton scale) of which Shepard is at or near ground zero. 

To put that into perspective the Hiroshima bomb completely annihilated anything within roughly 400 meters, there was nothing living there and it was only 15 Kilotons in power. On the megaton scale we are talking about the complete vaporization of any life in massive radius and Shepard is near ground zero. The heat alone (which no amount of rubble would protect him from) would turn him into ash. 


You're beeing too generous.

This is an explosion that would make the Tsar Bomba, the largest nueclear bomb ever detonated, look like a firecracker in comparison. Let that sink in for a moment. 

Shepard wouldn't even be ash, he would literally be vaporized, the elements in his body would be reduced to hydrogen gas. 

Jade8aby88 wrote...

*snip*

So why wouldn't the Catalyst override the keepers control and activate the signal itself? Or indoctrinate someone to do it for him?


Because the Guardian is a big fat liar and happens to be Harbinger? 

#897
pseudonymic

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Tirian Thorn wrote...

pseudonymic wrote...

 the biggest "loophole" with IT, imho, is the fact that the extended cut DLC will be free.


Please clarify. 

Because I don't believe the DLC being free helps or hinders IT. 


generalizing, let's assume that everyone who supports IT agrees that if true and to be implemented, it would indeed be a phenomenal and clever way to actually conclude the series (mind you, i'm all for IT). so, if you (as in bioware) have that in store, planned to be released after the game has settled in across your fanbase, why make it free when that was part of the original strategy all along? i mean, yeah, they had a bad reaction. but if you trust your product and know what you're offering, you wouldn't gamble on the chance of it succeeding, right? and instead, just reap the benefit while advising people to wait for what's coming. a simple "you guys haven't seen all of shepard yet" announcement would have sufficed.

there have been several comments from the bioware team about "keeping our saves", this and that. which while it is a sure indication that more content is coming, it doesn't add up to the idea of content that is being offered for free after the commotion and reaction from the official ending. personally, i understand the idea of giving out content for free as a recognition of their shortcomings, and while that's nice all, i have my reservations against believing any company targeting to make money would deliberately outline their business with the intention to give stuff out at no cost. that's why i feel that that's the only throw back against IT. it is the most sensical theory, to me. but if that were the plan from day one, i think standing their ground would have supported the idea of a further ending better.

#898
Dwailing

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Boradam wrote...

a stupid as-- waldstr18 wrote...

im gone a few days and you guys start seeing reflections of trees on the floor?


Posted Image

Just in case anybody still doubts the tree reflections actually existing, this was taken from a flycam video of the ending.


You can view it yourself here in case you're wanting to see the video.


Well, it doesn't get much clearer than this.  Also, this was my face when I saw that: :blink:.

#899
Raistlin Majare 1992

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pseudonymic wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...

pseudonymic wrote...

 the biggest "loophole" with IT, imho, is the fact that the extended cut DLC will be free.


Please clarify. 

Because I don't believe the DLC being free helps or hinders IT. 


generalizing, let's assume that everyone who supports IT agrees that if true and to be implemented, it would indeed be a phenomenal and clever way to actually conclude the series (mind you, i'm all for IT). so, if you (as in bioware) have that in store, planned to be released after the game has settled in across your fanbase, why make it free when that was part of the original strategy all along? i mean, yeah, they had a bad reaction. but if you trust your product and know what you're offering, you wouldn't gamble on the chance of it succeeding, right? and instead, just reap the benefit while advising people to wait for what's coming. a simple "you guys haven't seen all of shepard yet" announcement would have sufficed.

there have been several comments from the bioware team about "keeping our saves", this and that. which while it is a sure indication that more content is coming, it doesn't add up to the idea of content that is being offered for free after the commotion and reaction from the official ending. personally, i understand the idea of giving out content for free as a recognition of their shortcomings, and while that's nice all, i have my reservations against believing any company targeting to make money would deliberately outline their business with the intention to give stuff out at no cost. that's why i feel that that's the only throw back against IT. it is the most sensical theory, to me. but if that were the plan from day one, i think standing their ground would have supported the idea of a further ending better.


Except thatb any confrimation of something after the credits, an extending of the ending or even something like "You havent seen it all yet" with the discussion raging about Indoctrination could easily be giving to much away making those merely speculating certain.

Remember a twist is only a twist until someone pierces it together or it is revealed.

#900
MaximizedAction

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Dwailing wrote...

Boradam wrote...

a stupid as-- waldstr18 wrote...

im gone a few days and you guys start seeing reflections of trees on the floor?


Posted Image

Just in case anybody still doubts the tree reflections actually existing, this was taken from a flycam video of the ending.


You can view it yourself here in case you're wanting to see the video.


Well, it doesn't get much clearer than this.  Also, this was my face when I saw that: :blink:.


The face I keep visiting this thread (and its predecessor) for.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 15 mai 2012 - 08:18 .