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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#9126
Stigweird85

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Rosewind wrote...

Corik wrote...

bigstig wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

So we don't have any clue from Bioware yet? I'm growing desperate :P

Today was the first day I went out of home since I ended ME3 (last thursday). I guess it's easier to think I had overcome my depression while talking with you guys & gals. Still feeling like a zombie. Oh well... Nothing new really... time will cure it. Would be nice to have a nice ending to all this, but that never happened to me.

I could really use any good news from Bioware, though.

We all just have to wait until next week for the "sigh of relief" moment during E3.


I'm not sure that EC will feature at E3, which is fine with me. Regardless of your opinion of the ending it is a fact that Bioware were rushed to release and didn't get the delay from EA that they asked for. as far as I'm concerned Bioware can take another 6months or a year or even longer to make the EC(Although if it takes a year I expect hugh amounts of gameplay rather than just 1-2hrs worth)


Yeah, that would be "fine". But I wish they tell us "ok, guys, don't worry, you are quite near the truth, wait and see".


Or tell us we are wrong, that whats annoying me is because they have not come out with an definitive answer.


The reason they haven't said anything is that I don't think will even in the EC. Perhaps when Mass Effect 4 comes round it'll read the save file and depending on your choices you might find yourself in a conversation with your squad where some believe Shepard a hero whereas others believe Shepard is a war criminal or an indoctrinated agent. Even here they could get away with not actually revealling it one way or the other.

#9127
MaximizedAction

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Corik wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Not entirely. While one Shepard is not like another, it is still possible to let's say romance no on in ME1, Tali in 2 and 3, and still see Liara or the VS in the ending flashback. While on another Shepard it's possible not to recruit Tali in ME1, and have her die in ME2 so she's not even in 3. Liara Ashely and Kaiden are the only ones you have no choice about recruiting in 1, but none of them can be recruited in 2 (Liara doesn't really count as a squadmate since she's only a squadmate in DLC) and all three are guranteed squad members in ME3 (minus the VS that didn't survive ME1 obviously..

Wrong, you can shoot the VS in the Udina coup.


Wrong about what? I was comparing 2 different possible Shepards. But to your point if the VS is shot during the coup than you will more than likely see Liara in the flashbacks regardless if she's your LI or not. Another variable resulting in the same flashbacks and the same question: Why show Joker Anderson then your LI only if it was Liara/Ashley/Kaiden and not any other LI if any of those three weren't your Shepard's LI?


Maybe the hight pitch notes that play during those three flashbacks might help draw a connection. Also, all three flashbacks are blue toned (control/Reaper color).
Also, the sounds play during the three pulses of the blue Crucible beam.

Maybe Megumi's sig might provide a hint. Thought, we haven't really theorized about Joker fitting into that.

Hm...for some reason Kaiden isn't shown in the flashbacks.

If Kaidan really isn't shown it's a bug, he does exist.


I'm pretty sure I saw him in my playthrough.


Awesome! Then I'm definitely rooting for Megumi's sig.

#9128
estebanus

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Arian Dynas wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Hey, don't go killing bad guys without me!





If we can all figure out a time that works for the three of us (And possibly MaximizedAction if he's around), then frak yeah you can come!  The more ITers the merrier. 

Edit: Or estebanus or Arian if they're around, too. 


I could come onboard from 9 pm GMT.


I got to sleep for one, and for two I'm on PC.



So am I.

#9129
MaximizedAction

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estebanus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Hey, don't go killing bad guys without me!





If we can all figure out a time that works for the three of us (And possibly MaximizedAction if he's around), then frak yeah you can come!  The more ITers the merrier. 

Edit: Or estebanus or Arian if they're around, too. 


I could come onboard from 9 pm GMT.


I got to sleep for one, and for two I'm on PC.



So am I.


Do I have you in Origin? My username's iphyZ.

#9130
estebanus

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MaximizedAction wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Hey, don't go killing bad guys without me!





If we can all figure out a time that works for the three of us (And possibly MaximizedAction if he's around), then frak yeah you can come!  The more ITers the merrier. 

Edit: Or estebanus or Arian if they're around, too. 


I could come onboard from 9 pm GMT.


I got to sleep for one, and for two I'm on PC.



So am I.


Do I have you in Origin? My username's iphyZ.



I'll add you now.

My username is still estebanus in origin:P

Modifié par estebanus, 30 mai 2012 - 12:04 .


#9131
Stigweird85

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Are you all PC players? No love for the 360?

#9132
estebanus

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bigstig wrote...

Are you all PC players? No love for the 360?



My Xbox broke down 3 years ago, and I just didn't bother getting a new one.

#9133
MadRabbit999

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You are dangerously stearing away from the main topic.. so get back to it if you do not want another giant padlock! :P

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 30 mai 2012 - 12:13 .


#9134
RPGmom28

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I just feel more comfortable playing on the PC. It feels more natural. Also, I have a hard time targeting and hitting anything with a console controller. I had to get Dragon's Dogma for my 360 because it wasn't available for the PC, but I'll choose PC every time.

I would so love for your theory to be true. The ending broke my heart.

#9135
UrgedDuke

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MadRabbit999 wrote...

You are dangerously staring away from the main topic.. so get back to it if you do not want another giant padlock! :P


Its hard to stay on topic all the time for 3 months

#9136
MadRabbit999

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Well let it get buried then, and get it back up once people has more viable material.. keeping it up just for the sake of doing so, made the previous one locked.

#9137
UrgedDuke

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To get back on topic, I thought of something that I found strange:
In ME2 the save the collector base option was the renegade one, yet in ME3 the control option is shown as the paragon one. The both are essentially doing the same thing, trying to control reaper technology despite how many people were killed by that technology. Also in both cases it is the option that TIM wanted you to pick, which leaves me to believe that destroy is the REAL paragon option, because Shepard is staying true to his morals that he established in the last game by destroying the technology that we are not ready to use.

#9138
blooregard

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bigstig wrote...

Are you all PC players? No love for the 360?




Xbox player here don't worry you're not alone :)

#9139
Stigweird85

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estebanus wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Are you all PC players? No love for the 360?



My Xbox broke down 3 years ago, and I just didn't bother getting a new one.


Traitor :D, remember Mass Effect debuted on the xbox.

RPGmom28 wrote...

I just feel more comfortable playing on the PC. It feels more natural. Also, I have a hard time targeting and hitting anything with a console controller. I had to get Dragon's Dogma for my 360 because it wasn't available for the PC, but I'll choose PC every time.

I would so love for your theory to be true. The ending broke my heart.


I have never really tried playing a shooter on a pc, my laptop trackpad isn't really suitable. The odd occasion I have played on a PC I was so outmatched that it wasn't fun so I quickly retreated back to the safety of my controller(even here I am not that good though)

BTW has anyone found anything in t he NEW MP maps that might allude to indoctrination? (See what I did, we are still on topic nothing to see here)

#9140
SS2Dante

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So does anyone else find the noise that happens when you fire your gun in the crucible bit suspicious?

#9141
estebanus

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SS2Dante wrote...

So does anyone else find the noise that happens when you fire your gun in the crucible bit suspicious?



I already said this in the old thread :P

But you're right, to me the gunshots sound like the voice of someone, kinda like a far-away echo...

#9142
Stigweird85

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UrgedDuke wrote...

To get back on topic, I thought of something that I found strange:
In ME2 the save the collector base option was the renegade one, yet in ME3 the control option is shown as the paragon one. The both are essentially doing the same thing, trying to control reaper technology despite how many people were killed by that technology. Also in both cases it is the option that TIM wanted you to pick, which leaves me to believe that destroy is the REAL paragon option, because Shepard is staying true to his morals that he established in the last game by destroying the technology that we are not ready to use.


This has been discussed before the whole paragon/renegade colour choice means nothing to Shepard he/she doesn't see it, only the player does.

To me this is the biggest evidence that something else is at play, why is TIM(who is indoctrinated) suddenly shown as a good act to follow? As you say Destroy is the only option that is true to Shepard, that has been the goal since Mass Effect 3, everytime control or synthesis has been mentioned it has been a nagative aspect it is only in this final conversation with the starchild that it becomes the "good" option

#9143
Stigweird85

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blooregard wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Are you all PC players? No love for the 360?




Xbox player here don't worry you're not alone :)


Yay, Posted Image if you are interested my gamertag is Stigweird85. Truthfully I'm not that good a player but it could be fun

#9144
SS2Dante

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estebanus wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

So does anyone else find the noise that happens when you fire your gun in the crucible bit suspicious?



I already said this in the old thread :P

But you're right, to me the gunshots sound like the voice of someone, kinda like a far-away echo...


Yep, sorry. meant to ask if anyone had been able to rip the sound off the game yet. Think we tried before but didn't find it, just wondering if any progress has been made there.

Meant to ask, but after typing that first sentence the entire point of my post slipped out of my mind. Need to wake up, methinks :P

#9145
SomeBug

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UrgedDuke wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

You are dangerously staring away from the main topic.. so get back to it if you do not want another giant padlock! :P


Its hard to stay on topic all the time for 3 months


Then stop posting. This isn't a general chat thread.

#9146
UrgedDuke

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SomeBug wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

You are dangerously staring away from the main topic.. so get back to it if you do not want another giant padlock! :P


Its hard to stay on topic all the time for 3 months


Then stop posting. This isn't a general chat thread.


hey hey now I was speaking on behalf of the rest of the people in here, don't come at me with this

#9147
DJBare

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Rosewind wrote...

Corik wrote...

bigstig wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

So we don't have any clue from Bioware yet? I'm growing desperate :P

Today was the first day I went out of home since I ended ME3 (last thursday). I guess it's easier to think I had overcome my depression while talking with you guys & gals. Still feeling like a zombie. Oh well... Nothing new really... time will cure it. Would be nice to have a nice ending to all this, but that never happened to me.

I could really use any good news from Bioware, though.

We all just have to wait until next week for the "sigh of relief" moment during E3.


I'm not sure that EC will feature at E3, which is fine with me. Regardless of your opinion of the ending it is a fact that Bioware were rushed to release and didn't get the delay from EA that they asked for. as far as I'm concerned Bioware can take another 6months or a year or even longer to make the EC(Although if it takes a year I expect hugh amounts of gameplay rather than just 1-2hrs worth)


Yeah, that would be "fine". But I wish they tell us "ok, guys, don't worry, you are quite near the truth, wait and see".


Or tell us we are wrong, that whats annoying me is because they have not come out with an definitive answer.

I don't get this, if Bioware are going for the I.T angle then why would they say anything, that's the whole point about I.T, your never sure, for I.T to work they cannot say a thing otherwise it becomes a major spoiler, if they say we are wrong, game over, what's the point, if they say we are close to the truth game over, I.T is a guessing game until the EC is released, but look on the plus side, they are hardly taking pains to deny it.
In my opinion it's best they say absolutely nothing, keep the mystery going until the release.

#9148
Stigweird85

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DJBare wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Corik wrote...

bigstig wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

So we don't have any clue from Bioware yet? I'm growing desperate :P

Today was the first day I went out of home since I ended ME3 (last thursday). I guess it's easier to think I had overcome my depression while talking with you guys & gals. Still feeling like a zombie. Oh well... Nothing new really... time will cure it. Would be nice to have a nice ending to all this, but that never happened to me.

I could really use any good news from Bioware, though.

We all just have to wait until next week for the "sigh of relief" moment during E3.


I'm not sure that EC will feature at E3, which is fine with me. Regardless of your opinion of the ending it is a fact that Bioware were rushed to release and didn't get the delay from EA that they asked for. as far as I'm concerned Bioware can take another 6months or a year or even longer to make the EC(Although if it takes a year I expect hugh amounts of gameplay rather than just 1-2hrs worth)


Yeah, that would be "fine". But I wish they tell us "ok, guys, don't worry, you are quite near the truth, wait and see".


Or tell us we are wrong, that whats annoying me is because they have not come out with an definitive answer.

I don't get this, if Bioware are going for the I.T angle then why would they say anything, that's the whole point about I.T, your never sure, for I.T to work they cannot say a thing otherwise it becomes a major spoiler, if they say we are wrong, game over, what's the point, if they say we are close to the truth game over, I.T is a guessing game until the EC is released, but look on the plus side, they are hardly taking pains to deny it.
In my opinion it's best they say absolutely nothing, keep the mystery going until the release.


Exactly, although I don't think they will reveal it at all.

#9149
TSA_383

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[quote]MaximizedAction wrote...

[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

[quote]gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Not entirely. While one Shepard is not like another, it is still possible to let's say romance no on in ME1, Tali in 2 and 3, and still see Liara or the VS in the ending flashback. While on another Shepard it's possible not to recruit Tali in ME1, and have her die in ME2 so she's not even in 3. Liara Ashely and Kaiden are the only ones you have no choice about recruiting in 1, but none of them can be recruited in 2 (Liara doesn't really count as a squadmate since she's only a squadmate in DLC) and all three are guranteed squad members in ME3 (minus the VS that didn't survive ME1 obviously..[/quote]
Wrong, you can shoot the VS in the Udina coup.[/quote]

Wrong about what? I was comparing 2 different possible Shepards. But to your point if the VS is shot during the coup than you will more than likely see Liara in the flashbacks regardless if she's your LI or not. Another variable resulting in the same flashbacks and the same question: Why show Joker Anderson then your LI only if it was Liara/Ashley/Kaiden and not any other LI if any of those three weren't your Shepard's LI?
[/quote]

Maybe the hight pitch notes that play during those three flashbacks might help draw a connection. Also, all three flashbacks are blue toned (control/Reaper color).
Also, the sounds play during the three pulses of the blue Crucible beam.

Maybe Megumi's sig might provide a hint. Thought, we haven't really theorized about Joker fitting into that.

Hm...for some reason Kaiden isn't shown in the flashbacks.
[/quote]
Possible, but here's something interesting:


Blue ending:
Train sound insert, connotations we've already discussed.
Green ending:
Strange, haunting background sound, very faint but listening to it on its own or playing without music there's the unmistakeable sound of husks :unsure:
Red ending:
No insert...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

yes he did he said "I am the vangurd of your distruction,' which stats that each Repears is independent.[/quote]

Ohhh,
I bet that's what happened. Sovereign was a vanguard. He died because
he got hit by the vanguard bug. That's why it looked like he was
drifting off into space...

[quote]Boradam wrote...

Except getting into bloodrage will help the team more than just sniping them off.

When
I'm not a Kroguard I just focus on assisting allies, but when I am one I
prefer to stay in bloodrage to keep fire off of teammates.[/quote]

...
Bad news. You know how MP has more bugs than a $50/month apartment?
Yeah, kroguard's blood rage doesn't actually do anything except murder
your vision. But hey, at least geth don't stunlock you? =/

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

-snip pics showing the garden the kid was in during the prologue wasn't really there-

I
get the feeling Bioware would say " Oh that. That was just an error
that we never fixed." I would hate it if they did that.[/quote]

Sure are a lot of "errors" that point to IT...

[quote]Also get in the mako and go on a rampage.[/quote]

No
offense but I think I might prefer to let the Reapers extinguish all
life rather than use the mako again. Or any vehicle named after
something with gills.

[quote]Dwailing wrote...

[quote]lex0r11 wrote...

Hey, don't go killing bad guys without me!

[/quote]

If
we can all figure out a time that works for the three of us (And
possibly MaximizedAction if he's around), then frak yeah you can come!
The more ITers the merrier.

Edit: Or estebanus or Arian if they're around, too.

[/quote]

I'm
up for MP whenever too if anyone wants. Origin ID is Veladus. Be nice
to play with something besides strangers. Also be nice to play with
people I know are smart enough not to stand in front of a banshee and
slowly melee it to death. ... Stupid krogan. <grumble>

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

Oh, remember Javik's debate with EDI in the AI core?
"And what if your upgrade endangers others? All machines eventually see organics as a threat."
Does sound familiar, doesn't it?[/quote]

Javik
should be drawn and quartered. But yeah, that was part of my reasoning
on Harbinger being the Prothean Reaper. His horrible mockery of logic
and reason is exactly the same as the Protheans'.

[quote]Dwailing wrote...

OK,
honestly, I don't hate Javik like some others. In fact, I kind of
found him to be a tragic figure once you learn about what happened to
him.[/quote]

If you think he's tragic now, wait until you see what I did with him.

[quote]Big Bad wrote...

Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen,

Tonight, I have two words for you; two very important words:

Vorcha Soldier.

Yes, you heard me right, Vorcha Soldier.

This
guy is absolutely hilarious to listen to, all his unique animations are
awesome, and he is super fun to play as. I highly recommend giving it a
try (if you're into MP of course)!

Also, if anybody ever wants to play some PC MP, my Origin username is someotherguy86.

Having said that, how are you all tonight? [/quote]
^Added you [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

[quote]DJBare wrote...

[quote]byne wrote...

Why do you refuse to do MP? Its pretty damned fun

[/quote]I've
attempted MP three times now, the one thing that always puts me off, I
cannot relax into the game, it's why I have always preferred single
player, I can pause anytime I want.
[/quote]
[quote]ohupthis wrote...

I can't stand the mentality of MPer's

No offense, just been there, done that, too many times.[/quote]

^^
Simple solution: IDT thread multiplayer ;)

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

It's weird that the brat child
says " but you can control us" US" why do I want to control the Child
and the Reapers. and Shepard saying " so the Illusive man was right
after all" you just spent 7 minutes talking with the Illusive man about
controlling56 the Reapers is not the way and convinced him he was wrong
and dies.[/quote]
No, don't forget, no reading between the lines, bioware are bad writers etc ;)

[quote]Boradam wrote...

[quote]byne wrote...

[quote]ohupthis wrote...

I can't stand the mentality of MPer's

No offense, just been there, done that, too many times.[/quote]

I've played tons of matches and never really run into anyone with a bad mentality.

Have you even given it a shot?

I
remember I was super pissed when I originally heard ME3 was gonna have
MP, but I've had an overwhelmingly positive experience  with it

[/quote]

The
only issue I ever have with MPer's is when I'm playing a Kroguard and
some sniper genius decides it's best to snipe the targets I was trying
to bash in for Bloodrage instead of letting me pulverize them.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

[/quote]
:whistle:
Although I've promoted my infiltrator so now I'm that dick with the vanguard who steals your kill by charging it right as you're about to land the finishing blow :lol:

[quote]Boradam wrote...

[quote]Destructorlio wrote...

[quote]prettz wrote...

ok hears somthing to speculate.
as we know we see the kid playing at the beginning of ME3. hear is picture from Shepard room
Posted Image

now
after the reapers arrive an you gain control of Shepard for the first
time you can see the same place but the garden no longer exists, it's
just gone
Posted Image

hears me looking at it in normal game play
Posted Image

and flycam back where Shepard room was looking down.
Posted Image

really now, how did I miss this all this time?
now I need some sleep so have fun speculating .


[/quote]

Great find, prettz! [throws it onto the 'evidence' pile]

[quote]paxxton wrote...

I think there's a geth plasma weapon in SP. Fires with increasing frequency.[/quote] 

I
love that damned gun. It's pretty much the only weapon I ever used once
I found it in SP. Never runs out of ammo, and if you can track
something full blast with it, it usually takes it down.

But yes I agree all MP weapons should port to SP. Would make the dlc packs much more attractive to SPers. I've started a separate thread about how all the MP maps should also appear in SP as N7 missions.

[/quote]


Guardian's Garden? Hm.

[/quote]

It's interesting, that vegetation looks really quite out of place now that I look at it :huh:

I may have a funny memory, but am I right in thinking there was a rooftop garden on the room that gets destroyed after he runs inside?

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...


Btw scouted the map for signs in
the alien language (some devs using that to hide some easter
eggs/forshadowing) yeah the result was quite depressing xD
Posted Image[/quote]

As much as there's nothing there, which levels was this in? It'd be interesting to see if there are any actually useful ones in the game...

#9150
MadRabbit999

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Reading something from the poster above... and in reply to his 1-2 hours gameplay... that is not what EC will be about, it will only provide scenes, not gameplay.

And a good estimate is around 15+ minutes more of scenes in order to fill all the gaps and the "what happens after" bits, and not 2 hours.