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RavenEyry wrote...
Hey, I just thought of yet another problem with synthesis as is. The reapers haven't been changed in any way, just leaving because they don't want to reap anymore. The fleet is still attacking them, having no reason to stop except a pause to look at their pretty green eyes. The reapers will defend themselves. War may well continue even if the original reason for it has gone.
No. Because through mutual understanding and exchange of good will Reapers and Organics make love, not war, from now on.RavenEyry wrote...
Hey, I just thought of yet another problem with synthesis as is. The reapers haven't been changed in any way, just leaving because they don't want to reap anymore. The fleet is still attacking them, having no reason to stop except a pause to look at their pretty green eyes. The reapers will defend themselves. War may well continue even if the original reason for it has gone.
You seem to forget that Shepard has been indoctrinating people throughout the series, and I believe this why the reapers have a special interest in him/her.EpyonX3 wrote...
It would be much easier to just kill him though, given his reputation for having a strong will.
Even if they succeed in indoctrinating him, do you think the galaxy would follow shepard's lead and embrace the reapers? Heck no. By this time the whole galaxy knows what that would mean and probably kill Shepard on sight.
Of course, with Shepard out of the picture it would easier for them to continue harvesting, but the damage was done. They lost many capital ships in the push to earth(High EMS of course), They're losing ships on other worlds like palaven with the krogan's help. The Krogans are making babies again, which reapers didn't expect and would have to adapt, which they really aren't good at doing.
They would eventually win but they would be severely outnumbered the next cycle.
RavenEyry wrote...
Hey, I just thought of yet another problem with synthesis as is. The reapers haven't been changed in any way, just leaving because they don't want to reap anymore. The fleet is still attacking them, having no reason to stop except a pause to look at their pretty green eyes. The reapers will defend themselves. War may well continue even if the original reason for it has gone.
C'mon. Cut that out, please.DJBare wrote...
You seem to forget that Shepard has been indoctrinating people throughout the series, and I believe this why the reapers have a special interest in him/her.EpyonX3 wrote...
It would be much easier to just kill him though, given his reputation for having a strong will.
Even if they succeed in indoctrinating him, do you think the galaxy would follow shepard's lead and embrace the reapers? Heck no. By this time the whole galaxy knows what that would mean and probably kill Shepard on sight.
Of course, with Shepard out of the picture it would easier for them to continue harvesting, but the damage was done. They lost many capital ships in the push to earth(High EMS of course), They're losing ships on other worlds like palaven with the krogan's help. The Krogans are making babies again, which reapers didn't expect and would have to adapt, which they really aren't good at doing.
They would eventually win but they would be severely outnumbered the next cycle.
DJBare wrote...
You seem to forget that Shepard has been indoctrinating people throughout the series, and I believe this why the reapers have a special interest in him/her.EpyonX3 wrote...
It would be much easier to just kill him though, given his reputation for having a strong will.
Even if they succeed in indoctrinating him, do you think the galaxy would follow shepard's lead and embrace the reapers? Heck no. By this time the whole galaxy knows what that would mean and probably kill Shepard on sight.
Of course, with Shepard out of the picture it would easier for them to continue harvesting, but the damage was done. They lost many capital ships in the push to earth(High EMS of course), They're losing ships on other worlds like palaven with the krogan's help. The Krogans are making babies again, which reapers didn't expect and would have to adapt, which they really aren't good at doing.
They would eventually win but they would be severely outnumbered the next cycle.
paxxton wrote...
No. Because through mutual understanding and exchange of good will Reapers and Organics make love, not war, from now on.RavenEyry wrote...
Hey, I just thought of yet another problem with synthesis as is. The reapers haven't been changed in any way, just leaving because they don't want to reap anymore. The fleet is still attacking them, having no reason to stop except a pause to look at their pretty green eyes. The reapers will defend themselves. War may well continue even if the original reason for it has gone.
Why, it's the truth, look up the meaning of indoctrination.paxxton wrote...
C'mon. Cut that out, please.DJBare wrote...
You seem to forget that Shepard has been indoctrinating people throughout the series, and I believe this why the reapers have a special interest in him/her.EpyonX3 wrote...
It would be much easier to just kill him though, given his reputation for having a strong will.
Even if they succeed in indoctrinating him, do you think the galaxy would follow shepard's lead and embrace the reapers? Heck no. By this time the whole galaxy knows what that would mean and probably kill Shepard on sight.
Of course, with Shepard out of the picture it would easier for them to continue harvesting, but the damage was done. They lost many capital ships in the push to earth(High EMS of course), They're losing ships on other worlds like palaven with the krogan's help. The Krogans are making babies again, which reapers didn't expect and would have to adapt, which they really aren't good at doing.
They would eventually win but they would be severely outnumbered the next cycle.
You should meet up with a few cult leaders or some politicians, Shepard has a silver tongue, s/he convinces folk to his/her way of seeing things, that by definition is indoctrination.EpyonX3 wrote...
DJBare wrote...
You seem to forget that Shepard has been indoctrinating people throughout the series, and I believe this why the reapers have a special interest in him/her.EpyonX3 wrote...
It would be much easier to just kill him though, given his reputation for having a strong will.
Even if they succeed in indoctrinating him, do you think the galaxy would follow shepard's lead and embrace the reapers? Heck no. By this time the whole galaxy knows what that would mean and probably kill Shepard on sight.
Of course, with Shepard out of the picture it would easier for them to continue harvesting, but the damage was done. They lost many capital ships in the push to earth(High EMS of course), They're losing ships on other worlds like palaven with the krogan's help. The Krogans are making babies again, which reapers didn't expect and would have to adapt, which they really aren't good at doing.
They would eventually win but they would be severely outnumbered the next cycle.
What?
DJBare wrote...
Why, it's the truth, look up the meaning of indoctrination.paxxton wrote...
C'mon. Cut that out, please.DJBare wrote...
You seem to forget that Shepard has been indoctrinating people throughout the series, and I believe this why the reapers have a special interest in him/her.EpyonX3 wrote...
It would be much easier to just kill him though, given his reputation for having a strong will.
Even if they succeed in indoctrinating him, do you think the galaxy would follow shepard's lead and embrace the reapers? Heck no. By this time the whole galaxy knows what that would mean and probably kill Shepard on sight.
Of course, with Shepard out of the picture it would easier for them to continue harvesting, but the damage was done. They lost many capital ships in the push to earth(High EMS of course), They're losing ships on other worlds like palaven with the krogan's help. The Krogans are making babies again, which reapers didn't expect and would have to adapt, which they really aren't good at doing.
They would eventually win but they would be severely outnumbered the next cycle.
Bolded the part you left unbolded, as I said before, he uses this method to convince Wrex what Saren is breeding is wrong, the indoc part is that what Shepard says coincides with something in the back of Wrex's mind, that they would just be slaves, Shepard just bought the idea forward.paxxton wrote...
Via Wikipedia:
"Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2]"
DJBare wrote...
You should meet up with a few cult leaders or some politicians, Shepard has a silver tongue, s/he convinces folk to his/her way of seeing things, that by definition is indoctrination.EpyonX3 wrote...
DJBare wrote...
You seem to forget that Shepard has been indoctrinating people throughout the series, and I believe this why the reapers have a special interest in him/her.EpyonX3 wrote...
It would be much easier to just kill him though, given his reputation for having a strong will.
Even if they succeed in indoctrinating him, do you think the galaxy would follow shepard's lead and embrace the reapers? Heck no. By this time the whole galaxy knows what that would mean and probably kill Shepard on sight.
Of course, with Shepard out of the picture it would easier for them to continue harvesting, but the damage was done. They lost many capital ships in the push to earth(High EMS of course), They're losing ships on other worlds like palaven with the krogan's help. The Krogans are making babies again, which reapers didn't expect and would have to adapt, which they really aren't good at doing.
They would eventually win but they would be severely outnumbered the next cycle.
What?
Rosewind wrote...
@ Arian and Blooregard the Indra or the Krysae
What you bolded there has to be taken conditionally with the part I bolded. Indoctrination is more about injecting foreign thinking into one's mind without them evaluating what it means. Persuading someone to help (the Council) or think (Wrex) is not indoctrination. They still evaluate it before accepting.DJBare wrote...
Bolded the part you left unbolded, as I said before, he uses this method to convince Wrex what Saren is breeding is wrong, the indoc part is that what Shepard says coincides with something in the back of Wrex's mind, that they would just be slaves, Shepard just bought the idea forward.paxxton wrote...
Via Wikipedia:
"Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2]"
Modifié par paxxton, 31 mai 2012 - 04:58 .
Because Shepard does not require tech, that would make him either a threat or a tool for the reapers to use, old fashion or not, through the entire series Shepard has had the optional ability to convince anyone of just about anything, heck he even convinces Balak who is a murdering bastard.MaximizedAction wrote...
Maybe you should've put quotation marks around "indoctrination".
If you reduce indoctrination to the final result it has, then yes, Shepard has been doing that.
The only difference to the Reapers' way is, Shep has to do it the old fashioned way, without an auto-persuation machine in his pocket.
Shep has to convice people by doing stuff for them first, then getting something in return.
The Reapers did it the other way around.
DJBare wrote...
Bolded the part you left unbolded, as I said before, he uses this method to convince Wrex what Saren is breeding is wrong, the indoc part is that what Shepard says coincides with something in the back of Wrex's mind, that they would just be slaves, Shepard just bought the idea forward.paxxton wrote...
Via Wikipedia:
"Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2]"
Modifié par EpyonX3, 31 mai 2012 - 05:00 .
Modifié par dreamgazer, 31 mai 2012 - 05:00 .
DJBare wrote...
I know what I'm saying, but it requires that people look at indoctrination in the normal sense, Shepard does it better than anyone else, I have to end this discussion because people are just attributing indoctrination as just a bad thing the reapers do.
Modifié par EpyonX3, 31 mai 2012 - 05:05 .
Well said.EpyonX3 wrote...
DJBare wrote...
I know what I'm saying, but it requires that people look at indoctrination in the normal sense, Shepard does it better than anyone else, I have to end this discussion because people are just attributing indoctrination as just a bad thing the reapers do.
Indoctrination is a bad thing if used improperly or has bad goals. Military indoctrination is both good and bad. It prepares soldiers for the battlefield but it could leave them feeling like that's all they know for the rest of their lives.
Religious Indoctrination is worse for obvious reasons. There are very little examples of where indoctrination is a force for good.
Convincing people of making rational and moral decisions using logic and commen sense isn't indoctrination.
Except Shepard has a choice of both paragon or renegade persuasion, anyway, as I said, I cannot continue this discussion, it gets complex trying to explain it, and my head hurts.EpyonX3 wrote...
DJBare wrote...
I know what I'm saying, but it requires that people look at indoctrination in the normal sense, Shepard does it better than anyone else, I have to end this discussion because people are just attributing indoctrination as just a bad thing the reapers do.
Indoctrination is a bad thing if used improperly or has bad goals. Military indoctrination is both good and bad. It prepares soldiers for the battlefield but it could leave them feeling like that's all they know for the rest of their lives.
Religious Indoctrination is worse for obvious reasons. There are very little examples of where indoctrination is a force for good.
Convincing people of making rational and moral decisions using logic and commen sense isn't indoctrination.
BleedingUranium wrote...
plfranke wrote...
If IT isn't true I can at least take pleasure in the laughs that clarification on the synthesis ending will bring. I can just imagine what Mordin would say about my decision. "Had to be Shepard. Someone else might have gotten it right."Destructorlio wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
The "a new DNA" part is just something the child added for Shepard to relate to. There are more then enough people who couldn't imagine what he is talking about when only mentioning framework. It's used so Shepard can better understand what it is talking about.
Or that kid could have just been lying his ass off about 'synthesis'. That's actually more probably than the idea of a magic wave that can just change the entire galaxy like that.pirate1802 wrote...
I think the leaves glowing and everyone having circuit skin is just there to symbolize that they are "synthesized" now. much like TIM too had circuit skin after being Reaperized.
I'm not saying synthesis is any less stupid, just saying that showing glowing leaves and circuit skin doesn't necessarily mean they have actual circuits embedded on their skins now.
True, but I still see it as proof of IT, because... it's just so dumb! I mean, if the starchild had said that organic and technological life would merge into delicious candy, that would be no more or less scientifically plausible than what was portrayed- it would just be more obvious that it wasn't real.
Like, if IT is not true and the EC just 'expands' on this stupid idea, there is no way it will still not be insanely stupid. It's beyond 'bad writing'. How anyone (including Bioware) could advocate for an ending that takes that idea literally (or seriously) is beyond me.
I really loved the "Had to be me..." in ME3, I still don't know what was more emotional for me though, Mordin or Legion's death
Between Mordin's "Had to be me...", singing "Scientist Salarian", and the music, or Legion's "I know Tali" with sadness in his voice, followed by the Prime asking Raan if they'd thought of possible settlement sights...
Never played another game, never watched a movie, or, well anything, that made me really cry...
(and on a side note, they really need a full out bawling smiley!)
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