55528 réponses à ce sujet

[NoSpin]

I would imagine a lot of the dialog for DLC was done during the recording of the main game. DLC has been planned/written for a long time. Actors can/will be called back to redo a few scenes or shoot new ones, but I'd like to think most DLC voice acting is done.

[ivenoidea]

Nobody said anything about this the last time i posted it, any reaction now?

ivenoidea wrote...

While looking for screenshots that show the borders (actually called "vignette effects") are there throughout the entire game, i found something more intriguing.

I'm not sure if many people here know this, but the "decision room" was called "Guardians Garden" in the original leaked script, so Starbiebers original name was "Guardian"

Now, i found this website that has a quite interesting insight into how the ingame models were made.
But look at the picture of the kid, and the URL for the image.

Interview: http://www.pixologic...mass-effect3/2/

File in question: http://www.pixologic...dian_ingame.jpg

Yes, guardian_ingame

Now, in my opinion they would have no reason to name the file that way, other than either being given the file with the name, or being told the name by the developers.

Since the textures of the kid look like the actual kid, not all space-blue like Starkid, i would say this is pretty acceptable proof that the child is indeed some form of Starchild.

[Corik]

ivenoidea wrote...

Nobody said anything about this the last time i posted it, any reaction now?

ivenoidea wrote...

While looking for screenshots that show the borders (actually called "vignette effects") are there throughout the entire game, i found something more intriguing.

I'm not sure if many people here know this, but the "decision room" was called "Guardians Garden" in the original leaked script, so Starbiebers original name was "Guardian"

Now, i found this website that has a quite interesting insight into how the ingame models were made.
But look at the picture of the kid, and the URL for the image.

Interview: http://www.pixologic...mass-effect3/2/

File in question: http://www.pixologic...dian_ingame.jpg

Yes, guardian_ingame

Now, in my opinion they would have no reason to name the file that way, other than either being given the file with the name, or being told the name by the developers.

Since the textures of the kid look like the actual kid, not all space-blue like Starkid, i would say this is pretty acceptable proof that the child is indeed some form of Starchild.

The leaked script was changed. Yeah, it could give some ideas of what's inside "Bioware's head", but there's no point in discussing things that were cancelled long time ago, imo.

[RebelReya]

Wow, you guys have really put alot of thought into this. I've been tossing around another theory, that's similar to IT in alot of ways, but it's not that the end is a Hallucination, it's that Shepard is inside the reaper consensus, it seems to be an idea that's not all that uncommon. Now some of people I've talked to have tried to group the two together, but I see a big difference in what it means about the post choice cut scenes. I have gotten some positive feedback, but not a lot of replys, and I was wondering if I could get some IT opinions, especially on the differences. Would it be cool if I posted the link here? I don't want to troll, but I really want to know what people think.

[Corik]

@RebelReya Sounds interesting. Maybe this thread is not the place for a different theory, but I'm sure nobody will be mad about it. I think is nice to try to give different explanations to the evidences we see.

[RebelReya]

Thanks, I have a thread for it right here.

I really like IT, but in playing through the games again, I had this crazy idea, and few other people have mentioned considering it as well.

[Corik]

It's a very interesting theory. I haven't read it all, have a light headache right now (sorry). But I think I got your point. However, the main problem I see is the assumption that the Reapers have a collective consensus as the geth. The Geth were built that way, not as individual platforms but as software. I think the reapers are kinda different, more individual. There's no indication of a Reaper consensus anywhere in the game.

It could be, however. It's a theory that explains lots of things. Still, personally, I think a hallucination induced by Harbinger is more plausible. However, your theory explains better why the relays and the citadel explodes.

[Lionfranky]

I am lazy to read through the entire thread, so I may sound redundant. The problems I have with this theory are
1) Lack of foreshadowing. There hasn't been even a slight sign of indoctrination throughout the series. And no, constant dream sequence about the child does NOT count. While the theory may be the only way to save Bioware from this mess, you can't deny the fact that foreshadowing has been poor regarding the theory.

2) Normandy escape. What's the point of showing Normandy escape when Sheperd was indoctrinated? No way he could see that event. I mean those two things are NOT connected at all.

I just wish the original writer stayed with this series till the end instead of sucking Starwars too much. That franchise needs rest... damn you Starwars...

[RebelReya]

Yeah, and all we're going to have are theories until the EC comes out, theories, and questions. Maybe it's just Harbinger's consensus, they are 'each-a-nation.'

Do you have an idea for why the gun changes according to IT? I suppose the same ideology works. And IT doesn't require that Shepard be indoctrinated, just that Shepard is facing it.

But the Citadel and the relays thing bugs me, and synthesis, as it's pictured, requires way too much space magic.

[paxxton]

NoSpin wrote...

I would imagine a lot of the dialog for DLC was done during the recording of the main game. DLC has been planned/written for a long time. Actors can/will be called back to redo a few scenes or shoot new ones, but I'd like to think most DLC voice acting is done.

That's not so sure. BioWare stated that they had to reprioritize their schedule to bring the EC as a response to the uproar after the ending.

[MaximizedAction]

Lionfranky wrote...

I am lazy to read through the entire thread, so I may sound redundant. The problems I have with this theory are
1) Lack of foreshadowing. There hasn't been even a slight sign of indoctrination throughout the series. And no, constant dream sequence about the child does NOT count. While the theory may be the only way to save Bioware from this mess, you can't deny the fact that foreshadowing has been poor regarding the theory.

2) Normandy escape. What's the point of showing Normandy escape when Sheperd was indoctrinated? No way he could see that event. I mean those two things are NOT connected at all.

I just wish the original writer stayed with this series till the end instead of sucking Starwars too much. That franchise needs rest... damn you Starwars...

Did you check out this page?
masseffectindoctrination.blogspot.de/

It contains what we already found and is as good as up to date.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 01 juin 2012 - 02:19 .

[SS2Dante]

Lionfranky wrote...

I am lazy to read through the entire thread, so I may sound redundant. The problems I have with this theory are
1) Lack of foreshadowing. There hasn't been even a slight sign of indoctrination throughout the series. And no, constant dream sequence about the child does NOT count. While the theory may be the only way to save Bioware from this mess, you can't deny the fact that foreshadowing has been poor regarding the theory.

2) Normandy escape. What's the point of showing Normandy escape when Sheperd was indoctrinated? No way he could see that event. I mean those two things are NOT connected at all.

I just wish the original writer stayed with this series till the end instead of sucking Starwars too much. That franchise needs rest... damn you Starwars...

Ok, depends what you mean by foreshadowing. Indoctrination as a concept has been an extreme focus of the games, so there is that. but if you mean foreshadowing that Shepard is starting to crack, then there are a lot of small things. The big one, as you said, is the child, but (sorry, don't know how  much you know) the main point about the child is that he never existed in the first place. Noone ever seems to see or hear him at the start, the cinematography is really suspicious during the vent scene, the garden he was playing in dissapears, you hear a Reaper growl (with a different distortion that the ones outside) when Anderson interupts you at the vent. The fact that he says "Please come home" during the dreams.

Other stuff and that's just a really crappy summary, bit rushed. Others can take it from here I'm sure.

EDIT- OOPS, sorry, the Normandy. The explanation for the cutscenes under IT is that this is the visualisation of Shepards choice. It's what Shepard sees the choice accomplishing. You'll notice that throughout the game all of your squadmates, at one time or another, have a conversation with you about going somewhere far away, somewhere they can all relax and be safe. And this is what happens at the end, despite it making zero logical sense. Sheps final, delirious thoughts before succumbing to indoc is that image.

Modifié par SS2Dante, 01 juin 2012 - 02:53 .

[paxxton]

Is it possible that the IT wasn't planned? And all the clues are a terrible coincidence or a foreshadowing of a different interpretation (like entering a Reaper's "mind", http://social.biowar.../index/12329879)? It would explain the question by Chris Priestly on HTL. BioWare acknowledges that IT makes great sense and starts planning how to utilize it.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juin 2012 - 02:46 .

[SS2Dante]

Yay parabolee updated the blog to include the Mass Relay explosion stuff

[RavenEyry]

Lionfranky wrote...

1) Lack of foreshadowing. There hasn't been even a slight sign of indoctrination throughout the series. And no, constant dream sequence about the child does NOT count.

Um, the dreams are the foreshadowing. You can't say "there's absolutely no foreshadowing except the foreshadowing"

[macrocarl]

I'll post most of what I posted in your thread RebelReya.
I'm into IT (been following this thread and it's previous version since day 1) but I've been of the faction that thinks things are not what they seem, indoc is taking place, but the end actually happened to an extent. It just looks different to Shep and the player's eyeballs.
TIM and Andy are the good and bad angel, each perched on Shep's shoulders whispering what to do. I can't think of anything wrong with your theory. It's got a lot of what IT has been building but deviates mainly from IT in that stuff actually happened at the end and not it all just being a dream. It'll be interesting to see if this theory holds up after the EC comes out. Also, I wonder if the 'Beings of Light' theory bumping around could be incorporated. Not that you need it for this one, I'm just thinking out loud. Anyway, good job!

[SS2Dante]

paxxton wrote...

Is it possible that the IT wasn't planned? And all the clues are a terrible coincidence or a foreshadowing of a different interpretation (like entering a Reaper's "mind", http://social.biowar.../index/12329879)? It would explain the question by Chris Priestly on HTL. BioWare acknowledges that IT makes great sense and starts planning how to utilize it.

Occasionally I think that, but then whenever I look at the vent scene or Shepard noticing the bloody wound on the citadel it's just too bizarre for me. The fact that both shots remind me of Fight Club, or Vanilla Sky, is a major contributer to my thoughts on it.

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

Is it possible that the IT wasn't planned? And all the clues are a terrible coincidence or a foreshadowing of a different interpretation (like entering a Reaper's "mind", http://social.biowar.../index/12329879)? It would explain the question by Chris Priestly on HTL. BioWare acknowledges that IT makes great sense and starts planning how to utilize it.

If Shepard is hallucinating or whatever is unknown but they put in these hints, meaning they at least want the players to ask themselves if they are indoctrinated. But as even parts of ME2 suggest that Shepard is indoctrinated it's more likely that she really is.

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Is it possible that the IT wasn't planned? And all the clues are a terrible coincidence or a foreshadowing of a different interpretation (like entering a Reaper's "mind", http://social.biowar.../index/12329879)? It would explain the question by Chris Priestly on HTL. BioWare acknowledges that IT makes great sense and starts planning how to utilize it.

If Shepard is hallucinating or whatever is unknown but they put in these hints, meaning they at least want the players to ask themselves if they are indoctrinated. But as even parts of ME2 suggest that Shepard is indoctrinated it's more likely that she really is.

Yes, but maybe all the clues throughout the games serve the purpose of familiar building blocks for the ending in a Reaper VR. And the clues in ME3 might be specifically there for that purpose.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[paxxton]

@MegumiAzusa: Why do you think Liara might be indoctrinated? Is it because of her name (Liar-a)?

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

@MegumiAzusa: Why do you think Liara might be indoctrinated? Is it because of her name (Liar-a)?

Because of her reactions that are quite comparable with the reactions of the VSs and James.
In more detail: http://social.biowar...32/260#12232510

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 01 juin 2012 - 03:18 .

[Raestoz]

paxxton wrote...

Is it possible that the IT wasn't planned? And all the clues are a terrible coincidence or a foreshadowing of a different interpretation (like entering a Reaper's "mind", http://social.biowar.../index/12329879)? It would explain the question by Chris Priestly on HTL. BioWare acknowledges that IT makes great sense and starts planning how to utilize it.

At times I think that - all the indoctrination stuff in the game was supposed to lead to the dropped boss fight with TIM and Shep being indoc'd and they either ran out of time and couldn't remove it or leave it in and attempt to salvage the ending with the EC.

Since they have more plotholes then swiss cheese I'm hoping they'll attempt to salvage...

Ones that come to the top of my head are: 

On my recent ME3 playthrough - the Crucible clearly docks to the bottom of the Citadel yet Shep is running around with no mask... - I lean towards IT for that. ME1 made a massive point of put your helmet on, we're going outside the Citadel!

Also, the 2nd dream sequence and all the shadows making a beeline for StarBieber.

I could rattle off tons more but I'd be re-hashing alot of  what the detectives in this forum have already done (love your work guys!)

Hopefully we'll find out soon enough. !

Edit : Stupid forums - lost my rego for my previous BW games grrr

Modifié par Raestoz, 01 juin 2012 - 03:38 .

[HellishFiend]

IMO:

Player Indoctrination ending = planned from the start, possibly as far back as when the story/series was first conceptualized
Dark Energy = red herring, possibly originally meant to be the Reapers' false motivation/lie to get Shepard to fall to indoctrination. Was never actually going to be the real, legit ending. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 01 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Raestoz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Is it possible that the IT wasn't planned? And all the clues are a terrible coincidence or a foreshadowing of a different interpretation (like entering a Reaper's "mind", http://social.biowar.../index/12329879)? It would explain the question by Chris Priestly on HTL. BioWare acknowledges that IT makes great sense and starts planning how to utilize it.

At times I think that - all the indoctrination stuff in the game was supposed to lead to the dropped boss fight with TIM and Shep being indoc'd and they either ran out of time and couldn't remove it or leave it in and attempt to salvage the ending with the EC.

Since they have more plotholes then swiss cheese I'm hoping they'll attempt to salvage...

Ones that come to the top of my head are: 

On my recent ME3 playthrough - the Crucible clearly docks to the bottom of the Citadel yet Shep is running around with no mask... - I lean towards IT for that. ME1 made a massive point of put your helmet on, we're going outside the Citadel!

Also, the 2nd dream sequence and all the shadows making a beeline for StarBieber.

I could rattle off tons more but I'd be re-hashing alot of  what the detectives in this forum have already done (love your work guys!)

Hopefully we'll find out soon enough. !

Edit : Stupid forums - lost my rego for my previous BW games grrr

You mean where Shep and Anderson was under direct control?
But that is still in the game, Shep and Anderson cannot move, and Shep is forced to fire on Anderson. Also the name of the effects on the screen include the word indoctrination.

[MegumiAzusa]

HellishFiend wrote...

IMO:

Player Indoctrination ending = planned from the start, possibly as far back as when the story/series was first conceptualized
Dark Energy = red herring, possibly originally meant to be the Reapers' false motivation/lie to get Shepard to fall to indoctrination. Was never actually going to be the real, legit ending. 

Yes, if we look at the leaked script: Harbinger is telling us about that... later the Guardian which created the Reapers and people here actually think they can trust what Harbinger says?