55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

IMO:

Player Indoctrination ending = planned from the start, possibly as far back as when the story/series was first conceptualized
Dark Energy = red herring, possibly originally meant to be the Reapers' false motivation/lie to get Shepard to fall to indoctrination. Was never actually going to be the real, legit ending. 

Yes, if we look at the leaked script: Harbinger is telling us about that... later the Guardian which created the Reapers and people here actually think they can trust what Harbinger says?

My thoughts exactly. 

[SS2Dante]

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

IMO:

Player Indoctrination ending = planned from the start, possibly as far back as when the story/series was first conceptualized
Dark Energy = red herring, possibly originally meant to be the Reapers' false motivation/lie to get Shepard to fall to indoctrination. Was never actually going to be the real, legit ending. 

Yes, if we look at the leaked script: Harbinger is telling us about that... later the Guardian which created the Reapers and people here actually think they can trust what Harbinger says?

My thoughts exactly. 

I'd love to hear how that script got leaked in the first place. Rather bizarre thing to happen, really (not claiming anything here, just drawing attention to the possibility that it could have been more than just a leak).

Modifié par SS2Dante, 01 juin 2012 - 03:56 .

[MegumiAzusa]

SS2Dante wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

IMO:

Player Indoctrination ending = planned from the start, possibly as far back as when the story/series was first conceptualized
Dark Energy = red herring, possibly originally meant to be the Reapers' false motivation/lie to get Shepard to fall to indoctrination. Was never actually going to be the real, legit ending. 

Yes, if we look at the leaked script: Harbinger is telling us about that... later the Guardian which created the Reapers and people here actually think they can trust what Harbinger says?

My thoughts exactly.

I'd love to hear how that script got leaked in the first place. Rather bizarre thing to happen, really (not claiming anything here, just drawing attention to the possibility that it could have been more than just a leak).

Imo they rather went "naaah no one will fall for that" "ok... how about we give them the choice to 'control' them, maybe a third to bring them further away?" "genius!"

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 01 juin 2012 - 03:59 .

[Raestoz]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Raestoz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Is it possible that the IT wasn't planned? And all the clues are a terrible coincidence or a foreshadowing of a different interpretation (like entering a Reaper's "mind", http://social.biowar.../index/12329879)? It would explain the question by Chris Priestly on HTL. BioWare acknowledges that IT makes great sense and starts planning how to utilize it.

At times I think that - all the indoctrination stuff in the game was supposed to lead to the dropped boss fight with TIM and Shep being indoc'd and they either ran out of time and couldn't remove it or leave it in and attempt to salvage the ending with the EC.

Since they have more plotholes then swiss cheese I'm hoping they'll attempt to salvage...

Ones that come to the top of my head are: 

On my recent ME3 playthrough - the Crucible clearly docks to the bottom of the Citadel yet Shep is running around with no mask... - I lean towards IT for that. ME1 made a massive point of put your helmet on, we're going outside the Citadel!

Also, the 2nd dream sequence and all the shadows making a beeline for StarBieber.

I could rattle off tons more but I'd be re-hashing alot of  what the detectives in this forum have already done (love your work guys!)

Hopefully we'll find out soon enough. !

Edit : Stupid forums - lost my rego for my previous BW games grrr

You mean where Shep and Anderson was under direct control?
But that is still in the game, Shep and Anderson cannot move, and Shep is forced to fire on Anderson. Also the name of the effects on the screen include the word indoctrination.

True - the whole TIM/Anderson scene was really weird - hell my missus who hasn't played ME but was half watching from the dining room basically said 'WTF - that's either a dream or BS'

But I'm more referring to where Shep is transported to the Starbrat - the cutscene clearly shows the chamber docking with the Citadel but there's nothing to indicate there's anything to stop Shep turning inside out from the vacuum of space when your walking up the paths. I only finished my playthrough last night and made sure to put a round through everything in that god forsaken chamber....nothing to indicate there's anything surrounding the Catalyst chamber. Shep can magically breath in space? I put it down to

[dreamgazer]

SS2Dante wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

IMO:

Player Indoctrination ending = planned from the start, possibly as far back as when the story/series was first conceptualized
Dark Energy = red herring, possibly originally meant to be the Reapers' false motivation/lie to get Shepard to fall to indoctrination. Was never actually going to be the real, legit ending. 

Yes, if we look at the leaked script: Harbinger is telling us about that... later the Guardian which created the Reapers and people here actually think they can trust what Harbinger says?

My thoughts exactly. 

I'd love to hear how that script got leaked in the first place. Rather bizarre thing to happen, really (not claiming anything here, just drawing attention to the possibility that it could have been more than just a leak).

Planted misinformation and false scripts is assuredly not unheard of.  My head hurts thinking about the logistics in how it'd apply here, but that kind of thing has been done in the past, especially around large productions. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 01 juin 2012 - 04:18 .

[MaximizedAction]

Me reading about the ME3 soundtrack when le wild Casey Hudson quote appears:

"With Mass Effect 3, we're taking players on a more personal journey, even though the scope is bigger than ever[...]."

It's fun re-reading all pre-release interviews with IT in mind. It seems like the most natural interpretation to me, really.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 01 juin 2012 - 04:12 .

[TSA_383]

dreamgazer wrote...

SS2Dante wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

IMO:

Player Indoctrination ending = planned from the start, possibly as far back as when the story/series was first conceptualized
Dark Energy = red herring, possibly originally meant to be the Reapers' false motivation/lie to get Shepard to fall to indoctrination. Was never actually going to be the real, legit ending. 

Yes, if we look at the leaked script: Harbinger is telling us about that... later the Guardian which created the Reapers and people here actually think they can trust what Harbinger says?

My thoughts exactly. 

I'd love to hear how that script got leaked in the first place. Rather bizarre thing to happen, really (not claiming anything here, just drawing attention to the possibility that it could have been more than just a leak).

Planted misinformation and false scripts is assuredly not unheard of.  My head hurts thinking about the logistics in how it'd apply here, but that kind of thing has been done in the past, especially around large productions. 

What's interesting is in some of the development notes I have, there are notes from developers discussing how to implement the control system for the player getting indoctrinated at the end...

I'll have a look and try to dig it out from amongst the several hundred pages of text.

1) Lack of foreshadowing. There hasn't been even a slight sign of indoctrination throughout the series.

Well... Yes, I see how you could come to that conclusion.
Once,
I played through the entire game from inside a large hessian sack with
my ears plugged and my arms tied behind my back, manipulating the
controller with my teeth and I didn't see even a hint of indoctrination
as a theme.

ivenoidea wrote...

Nobody said anything about this the last time i posted it, any reaction now?

ivenoidea wrote...

While
looking for screenshots that show the borders (actually called
"vignette effects") are there throughout the entire game, i found
something more intriguing.

I'm not sure if many people here know
this, but the "decision room" was called "Guardians Garden" in the
original leaked script, so Starbiebers original name was "Guardian"

Now, i found this website that has a quite interesting insight into how the ingame models were made.
But look at the picture of the kid, and the URL for the image.

Interview: http://www.pixologic...mass-effect3/2/

File in question: http://www.pixologic...dian_ingame.jpg

Yes, guardian_ingame

Now,
in my opinion they would have no reason to name the file that way,
other than either being given the file with the name, or being told the
name by the developers.

Since the textures of the kid look like
the actual kid, not all space-blue like Starkid, i would say this is
pretty acceptable proof that the child is indeed some form of
Starchild.

Well, yes, we know the kid is "guardian", that's all he's ever referred to as in the game files.

I honestly doubt the kid is harbinger. But with "Sovereign" and "Harbinger" being reaper names, "Guardian" seems like it could fit the bill as another reaper rather well.

Modifié par TSA_383, 01 juin 2012 - 04:28 .

[RavenEyry]

Should be noted that there is no reason not to call Mr. Sparkle 'catalyst' in the game files, unless he was designed while Javik was still the catalyst, and why would that be?

[EpyonX3]

RavenEyry wrote...

Should be noted that there is no reason not to call Mr. Sparkle 'catalyst' in the game files, unless he was designed while Javik was still the catalyst, and why would that be?

Javik was the Catalyst? This is new to me can you elaborate?

[RavenEyry]

EpyonX3 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Should be noted that there is no reason not to call Mr. Sparkle 'catalyst' in the game files, unless he was designed while Javik was still the catalyst, and why would that be?

Javik was the Catalyst? This is new to me can you elaborate?

I honestly don't know any details apart from in an early draft Javik was the catalyst. I assume it to mean he was the thing that makes the crucible work, not Mr. Sparkle in disguise.

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Should be noted that there is no reason not to call Mr. Sparkle 'catalyst' in the game files, unless he was designed while Javik was still the catalyst, and why would that be?

Javik was the Catalyst? This is new to me can you elaborate?

I honestly don't know any details apart from in an early draft Javik was the catalyst. I assume it to mean he was the thing that makes the crucible work, not Mr. Sparkle in disguise.

I think that would be even more far-fetched than the current literal ending.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juin 2012 - 04:46 .

[robdunnhill]

one thing that gets me in ME1 is why didn't Matriarch Bennezia (or however u spell it) have blue or yellow indoctrinated eyes?

[paxxton]

I just wanted to chime in on the progress in the poll. The battle is ferocious. There's still no clear winner.

Should Mass Effect 4 continue Shepard's story? http://social.biowar...66/polls/34384/

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juin 2012 - 04:55 .

[RavenEyry]

robdunnhill wrote...

one thing that gets me in ME1 is why didn't Matriarch Bennezia (or however u spell it) have blue or yellow indoctrinated eyes?

She wasn't implanted. The eyes aren't a side effect of indoctrination, but anyone with them is indoctrinated.

[paxxton]

Why was the Conduit needed at all in ME1?

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juin 2012 - 04:55 .

[Raestoz]

robdunnhill wrote...

one thing that gets me in ME1 is why didn't Matriarch Bennezia (or however u spell it) have blue or yellow indoctrinated eyes?

Probably the same reason Banshee's don't have those eyes - as someone suggested previously, maybe Asari indoctrinated just go in to the black eye mode.

Of course, ME1 - were they thinking that far ahead to 'colour' eyes based on indoc? To me, ME1 was all about organic vs synthetic - never even crossed my mind at the time that Shep could possibly be remotely indoc'd.

[robdunnhill]

RavenEyry wrote...

robdunnhill wrote...

one thing that gets me in ME1 is why didn't Matriarch Bennezia (or however u spell it) have blue or yellow indoctrinated eyes?

She wasn't implanted. The eyes aren't a side effect of indoctrination, but anyone with them is indoctrinated.

ah nice didnt think of that, just played through the whole trilogy again and that was the main thing i didnt get, cheers for that I feel reassured about the IT / hopes of getting a good ending

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

Why the Conduit was needed at all in ME1?

It was how the hidden Prothean scientists were able to get back to the Citadel after the Reapers went back to darkspace. Once there, they sabotaged the keeper signal, hence why Sovereign needed to enlist the help of Saren and the Geth to try to get to the Citadel to fix the problem. 

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Why the Conduit was needed at all in ME1?

It was how the hidden Prothean scientists were able to get back to the Citadel after the Reapers went back to darkspace. Once there, they sabotaged the keeper signal, hence why Sovereign needed to enlist the help of Saren and the Geth to try to get to the Citadel to fix the problem. 

Yes, I know that. It still doesn't explain why the whole search for the Conduit if Sovereign and friends could just make a frontal assault on the Citadel.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Why the Conduit was needed at all in ME1?

It was how the hidden Prothean scientists were able to get back to the Citadel after the Reapers went back to darkspace. Once there, they sabotaged the keeper signal, hence why Sovereign needed to enlist the help of Saren and the Geth to try to get to the Citadel to fix the problem. 

Yes, I know that. It still doesn't explain why the whole search for the Conduit if Sovereign and friends could just make a frontal assault on the Citadel.

Because if they did that, the Council would just close up the Citadel, and the attack would fail. They needed a man on the inside to make sure the Citadel was open so that Sovereign could get in, and then close to protect him.  

Modifié par HellishFiend, 01 juin 2012 - 05:00 .

[Corik]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Why the Conduit was needed at all in ME1?

It was how the hidden Prothean scientists were able to get back to the Citadel after the Reapers went back to darkspace. Once there, they sabotaged the keeper signal, hence why Sovereign needed to enlist the help of Saren and the Geth to try to get to the Citadel to fix the problem. 

Yes, I know that. It still doesn't explain why the whole search for the Conduit if Sovereign and friends could just make a frontal assault on the Citadel.

Sovereing needed Saren to give him access from the inside.

[Raestoz]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Why the Conduit was needed at all in ME1?

It was how the hidden Prothean scientists were able to get back to the Citadel after the Reapers went back to darkspace. Once there, they sabotaged the keeper signal, hence why Sovereign needed to enlist the help of Saren and the Geth to try to get to the Citadel to fix the problem. 

I agree with that and it's sad that it virtually invalidates ME1 or makes it non-existent - we bust our hump in ME1 to save the galaxy and all we did in the end was slow down the invasion by a couple of years. We end up talking to a potentially 'figment of our imagination' ghost and pick a colour to decide the fate of trillions of lives.

I really wished BW had elaborated on the keepers - they're the most mysterious figures in ME since they kinda turned the Reapers from unknown, evil bad guys into playthings of a shiny 7 year old.

[HellishFiend]

Raestoz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Why the Conduit was needed at all in ME1?

It was how the hidden Prothean scientists were able to get back to the Citadel after the Reapers went back to darkspace. Once there, they sabotaged the keeper signal, hence why Sovereign needed to enlist the help of Saren and the Geth to try to get to the Citadel to fix the problem. 

I agree with that and it's sad that it virtually invalidates ME1 or makes it non-existent - we bust our hump in ME1 to save the galaxy and all we did in the end was slow down the invasion by a couple of years. We end up talking to a potentially 'figment of our imagination' ghost and pick a colour to decide the fate of trillions of lives.

I really wished BW had elaborated on the keepers - they're the most mysterious figures in ME since they kinda turned the Reapers from unknown, evil bad guys into playthings of a shiny 7 year old.

Slowing down the invasion was critical to having any chance of surviving it, though. Plus, ME1 did a lot of setup and backstory on indoctrination. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 01 juin 2012 - 05:03 .

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Why the Conduit was needed at all in ME1?

It was how the hidden Prothean scientists were able to get back to the Citadel after the Reapers went back to darkspace. Once there, they sabotaged the keeper signal, hence why Sovereign needed to enlist the help of Saren and the Geth to try to get to the Citadel to fix the problem. 

Yes, I know that. It still doesn't explain why the whole search for the Conduit if Sovereign and friends could just make a frontal assault on the Citadel.

Because if they did that, the Council would just close up the Citadel, and the attack would fail. They needed a man on the inside to make sure the Citadel was open so that Sovereign could get in, and then close to protect him.  

Saren was a Spectre before being exposed by Shepard. Instead of searching the whole Galaxy he could just walk in and sabotage the Citadel from the inside. The only explanation I can see is that his indoctrination progressed through the whole first game and Saren was never fully committed to the Reapers' cause.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juin 2012 - 05:07 .

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...



Because if they did that, the Council would just close up the Citadel, and the attack would fail. They needed a man on the inside to make sure the Citadel was open so that Sovereign could get in, and then close to protect him.  

Saren was a Spectre before being exposed by Shepard. Instead of searching the whole Galaxy he could just walk in and sabotage the Citadel from the inside. The only explanation I can see is that his indoctrination progressed through the whole first game and Saren was never fully committed to the Reapers' cause.

Sovereign still wanted to find the Conduit so he could shut it down. He probably felt his best chance of doing that was to do it before wiping out the organics from that cycle.