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[FFZero]

Okay I posted a slightly larger version of this mini essay yesterday but it got lost during one of the threads busier moments. I was bored yesterday afternoon waiting for something to finish rendering on my computer so I thought I’d have a go at analysing the endings from a film makers perspective and I have to say some of the shot types used are very telling and definitely add to the argument that the endings were done this way on purpose. It also lends credence to Biowares statement that the endings were very finely crafted.

The two shots that jump out the most for me are in the control ending, the main one being the close up of Shepard dropping their gun. If all Bioware wanted to show was Shepard dropping their gun why did they use a close up and not just have a long or medium shot showing them dropping it like in the synthesis ending? Now you could say they did it for stylistic effect, however in film making you normally only use close ups on details like that when they have a significant meaning and you’re trying to convey that to the audience. To me this small scene came across as a symbolic gesture of Shepard laying down their arms, or in the case of IT, giving up.

Also in the control ending is the close up of Star-brats face. Now I think it’s been speculated here in this thread that Star-brat may be smiling in the control ending but because of his transparent nature it’s impossible to tell. Personally I think he is and this shot backs that theory up. In the other endings you just see Star-brat disappear behind you or in the back of the shot, you never see his face or get a close up of him, so why in the control ending do they show him?

As I said before, close ups are generally used to convey deeper meanings and emotions, but there are multiple types of close ups and each have slightly different meanings when used in certain contexts. Medium close ups are like the one that was used in the scene where Shepard dropped their gun. In the scene with Star-brat a cross between a normal close up and a big close up was used. Big close ups are generally used in interviews to show the interviewees tension or, more importantly in this case, suggest that the person is lying or not to be trusted. Since there is no way to confirm whether he/it is smiling or showing any expression at all, make of this what you will.

[HellishFiend]

[quote]Turbo_J wrote...

[quote]SS2Dante wrote...

[quote]Dwailing wrote...

*Snip*

[/quote]

I personally am of the opinion that Shepard was knocked out on the ride to the Conduit.  That jolt and fade to black just seems too deliberate.

[/quote]

Yeah, but the fact you never see Shep wake up, or even get knocked out, strikes me as working against this idea. The "wake up" part is almost always used in this kind of story, and not showing it properly would be a super cheap way to hide Indoctrination. Not saying it's not possible, of course.

[/quote]


Thought I'd join in... Although 6 pages will probably erupt by the time I'm done with my chime in.

I played ME1 and ME2 enough to expect indoctrination was going to play a roll in ME3. By 1am of release I was playing... 30 hours later I rage quick and stewed for two days... then all the things that bothered me from the beginning to the end started to come to the surface as my anger and sadness turned into thoughtful retrospection.

There was a comment from the devs about Shep's psychy being affected by decisions and I thought; cool add, but why now and in what way will it manifest during gameplay? Sheps 'no more visions, if that's what you mean' to Hackett after Arrival stuck with me too. I was wary of everything... starting with the kid. Mars was not much better, with Liara losing her ability to think critically regarding a majic bullet showing up JUST IN TIME. My first thought was; this is a trap. I had a bit of hope with Liara's line a bit later: 'what if these are our last days and we spend them scurrying around trying to solve a problem that we can't fix...' but nope. I lost faith and trust in her after the 'shouldn't we at least try' line on the Normandy.

And then the first dream... this is not my Shep. Totally OOC to funnel broad based losses down to one death. If anyone would show up in a dream, it would be the Virmire victim, not some random kid. 'waid-a-minutes Mordin Bioware, you're just messin with me aren't you...'

James: I got the 'You hear that hum?' line early... and it totally freaked me out. Was it the dog; na DLC so can't be? No wait - codex time - Reaper indoctrination - So someone affected by it can be used as an antenna... well that's just bloody great! Shep is full of damn Reaper tech. How harmless could that be now that the galaxy is full of squids! Dammit! I'm my own crews worst nightmare!

So, on to the hot topics.

Bodies by the Makos:

Indoctrination is supposed to be subttle; at least for important thralls. 3D models of the same two bodies (Ash and Jenkins, I believe. Not Kaidan.) would draw too much attention to their presence. I did not see them on my first playthrough; in fact I missed tons of stuff and I WAS LOOKING, though I did on a reload and it convinced me that everything in London was not as it seemed.

The tank/truck crash. I'm leaning towards this more and more as a possible start of the unconscious portion of Harbies indoctrination attempt. However, there are other parts of London that don't make sense and they take place after the shuttle crash.

1 hit wonder: Shep takes out a Reaper with a single shot from a heavy weapon. There is no precedent for this at all. Seems conventional means to defeat the reapers would work just fine.

There is almost never a moment the environment is calm before taking out the canon. After that, there are unending waves of Batarian husks. There is NO time to look around in this area without the canon shaking things up and making any kind of observation possible. This may mean nothing.

Shepards reaction to Anderson mentioning he was born in London, again... It was exactly how I reacted... you told me this... wait a minute! Who are you, really? Femsheps look, to me was doubt or wariness.

At the LZ/London Base:

Ever squadie I know happens to be at one of the handful of QECs scattered around the globe. It's the only long distance communication that can't be effectively scrambled. However short distance coms seem to be working, as reports come in over radios? Maybe nothing.

Speaking of radio conversations: The guy with the leg blown off just below the knee? Like the guy at Huerta on the Citadel?

Conversations with current team felt eerie. Almost as if designed to have the player feel a sense of dread or emptiness and expect the worst.

Wrex forgetting he wanted to name a daughter Mordin... it was his idea, not Bakara's

This is already a book so I'll end it with a final note on the path to indoctrination.

It starts early. So early most have yet to see it. I found it in my second play through and after not seeing it mentioned for months; in IT threads or videos, I created a little video.

I saw the kid go into the building on my first playthrough. Then the duct... I even reloaded when I heard the reaper noise... I was wearing headphones and could swear it came from INSIDE the duct because of the echo.

But wait, there's more!

Even before this, before the incredible building climbing kid shows himself... There is the park, on a rooftop almost half a mile away where Shep/We see him for the firs time, playing with his little ship... or do we?

www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts? - I think we need a few talented narrators and video artists to create an Indoctrination video that spans the entire game, not just the last 20 minutes.

You hear that hum? Is that just me?

[/quote]

Excellent post! Great read. 

[estebanus]

Ok, I've gotta go to bed, so I'll see you all tomorrow, I guess.

Modifié par estebanus, 02 juin 2012 - 12:44 .

[MegumiAzusa]

estebanus wrote...

Ok, I've gotta go to bed, so I'll see you all tomorrow, I guess.

btw you showed as offline all the time for me

[estebanus]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Ok, I've gotta go to bed, so I'll see you all tomorrow, I guess.

btw you showed as offline all the time for me

Oh, that's because I set myself in "invisible" mode, I believe!

[Big Bad]

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Anyone wanna play some multiplayer with me?

What's your origin ID?  Mine is sometherguy86

I'm gonna hop on in a few minutes.

Mine is estebanus, same as here

Just sent you a friend request.  I just found out that you can change your origin ID!  I think I'll do that to make it consistent with my BSN forums username.  The website is apparently down, at the moment though.

Invite me when you're ready!

Good game, man.  Sorry that I sucked!  

[estebanus]

Big Bad wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Anyone wanna play some multiplayer with me?

What's your origin ID?  Mine is sometherguy86

I'm gonna hop on in a few minutes.

Mine is estebanus, same as here

Just sent you a friend request.  I just found out that you can change your origin ID!  I think I'll do that to make it consistent with my BSN forums username.  The website is apparently down, at the moment though.

Invite me when you're ready!

Good game, man.  Sorry that I sucked!  

Ah, don't worry, I'm not that good at MP either!

I've got my bad moments and good moments (mostly bad)!

Modifié par estebanus, 02 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[prettz]

HellishFiend wrote...



But wait, there's more!

Even before this, before the incredible building climbing kid shows himself... There is the park, on a rooftop almost half a mile away where Shep/We see him for the firs time, playing with his little ship... or do we?

www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

we where talking about this part earlier on the forum, also working on a vid about it as well but a nice time power outage screwed up my PC.  

it got better:wizard:

[MegumiAzusa]

estebanus wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Ok, I've gotta go to bed, so I'll see you all tomorrow, I guess.

btw you showed as offline all the time for me

Oh, that's because I set myself in "invisible" mode, I believe!

Bad decision if you want to play with someone

[HellishFiend]

FFZero wrote...

Okay I posted a slightly larger version of this mini essay yesterday but it got lost during one of the threads busier moments. I was bored yesterday afternoon waiting for something to finish rendering on my computer so I thought I’d have a go at analysing the endings from a film makers perspective and I have to say some of the shot types used are very telling and definitely add to the argument that the endings were done this way on purpose. It also lends credence to Biowares statement that the endings were very finely crafted.

The two shots that jump out the most for me are in the control ending, the main one being the close up of Shepard dropping their gun. If all Bioware wanted to show was Shepard dropping their gun why did they use a close up and not just have a long or medium shot showing them dropping it like in the synthesis ending? Now you could say they did it for stylistic effect, however in film making you normally only use close ups on details like that when they have a significant meaning and you’re trying to convey that to the audience. To me this small scene came across as a symbolic gesture of Shepard laying down their arms, or in the case of IT, giving up.

Also in the control ending is the close up of Star-brats face. Now I think it’s been speculated here in this thread that Star-brat may be smiling in the control ending but because of his transparent nature it’s impossible to tell. Personally I think he is and this shot backs that theory up. In the other endings you just see Star-brat disappear behind you or in the back of the shot, you never see his face or get a close up of him, so why in the control ending do they show him?

As I said before, close ups are generally used to convey deeper meanings and emotions, but there are multiple types of close ups and each have slightly different meanings when used in certain contexts. Medium close ups are like the one that was used in the scene where Shepard dropped their gun. In the scene with Star-brat a cross between a normal close up and a big close up was used. Big close ups are generally used in interviews to show the interviewees tension or, more importantly in this case, suggest that the person is lying or not to be trusted. Since there is no way to confirm whether he/it is smiling or showing any expression at all, make of this what you will.

I did read it when you first posted it, and I agree with your sentiments. 

[estebanus]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Ok, I've gotta go to bed, so I'll see you all tomorrow, I guess.

btw you showed as offline all the time for me

Oh, that's because I set myself in "invisible" mode, I believe!

Bad decision if you want to play with someone

I don't know why, but it always does it automatically when I log in...

[MegumiAzusa]

estebanus wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Ok, I've gotta go to bed, so I'll see you all tomorrow, I guess.

btw you showed as offline all the time for me

Oh, that's because I set myself in "invisible" mode, I believe!

Bad decision if you want to play with someone

I don't know why, but it always does it automatically when I log in...

There's a checkbox to prevent that from happening, so you've just have to harvest the selection and store it in Reaper form... or something similar

[dreamgazer]

prettz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...



But wait, there's more!

Even before this, before the incredible building climbing kid shows himself... There is the park, on a rooftop almost half a mile away where Shep/We see him for the firs time, playing with his little ship... or do we?

www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

we where talking about this part earlier on the forum, also working on a vid about it as well but a nice time power outage screwed up my PC.  

I, uh ... yeah, it's going to take a LOT of convincing to get me to believe that the kid was real.

Whether it's a mental projection from Shepard's mind or a facet of indoctrination---or, of course, both---doesn't matter.

[masster blaster]

dreamgazer wrote...

prettz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...



But wait, there's more!

Even before this, before the incredible building climbing kid shows himself... There is the park, on a rooftop almost half a mile away where Shep/We see him for the firs time, playing with his little ship... or do we?

www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

we where talking about this part earlier on the forum, also working on a vid about it as well but a nice time power outage screwed up my PC.  

I, uh ... yeah, it's going to take a LOT of convincing to get me to believe that the kid was real.

Whether it's a mental projection from Shepard's mind or a facet of indoctrination---or, of course, both---doesn't matter.

Look maybe the kid was before the Reapers arrived, or maybe it was the god child just as an organic, how know only Bioware does, but I think Shepard is seeing things that are starting to bring back old wounds from ME1 and ME2. Espicailly if you chosed War Hero as a Profile for Shepard that could play a huge role about how the Reapers use the fallen member/people that Shepard fought so hard to protect to luer his/her moral down and slowly become Indoc.

Modifié par masster blaster, 02 juin 2012 - 01:13 .

[masster blaster]

So when is E3?

[byne]

dreamgazer wrote...

prettz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...



But wait, there's more!

Even before this, before the incredible building climbing kid shows himself... There is the park, on a rooftop almost half a mile away where Shep/We see him for the firs time, playing with his little ship... or do we?

www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

we where talking about this part earlier on the forum, also working on a vid about it as well but a nice time power outage screwed up my PC.  

I, uh ... yeah, it's going to take a LOT of convincing to get me to believe that the kid was real.

Whether it's a mental projection from Shepard's mind or a facet of indoctrination---or, of course, both---doesn't matter.

If BioWare intended the kid to be real they did a horrible job at portraying him as such.

Back when the demo was released, even before we knew godchild took the same form, I remember seeing threads saying the kid might be a hallucination.

The kid being a hallucination idea predates IT by quite a long time, so its not just us who think he's not real.

[masster blaster]

any news from Bioware,EA, or ME Cast.

[byne]

masster blaster wrote...

So when is E3?

Here you go.

Modifié par byne, 02 juin 2012 - 01:17 .

[dreamgazer]

byne wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

prettz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...



But wait, there's more!

Even before this, before the incredible building climbing kid shows himself... There is the park, on a rooftop almost half a mile away where Shep/We see him for the firs time, playing with his little ship... or do we?

www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

we where talking about this part earlier on the forum, also working on a vid about it as well but a nice time power outage screwed up my PC.  

I, uh ... yeah, it's going to take a LOT of convincing to get me to believe that the kid was real.

Whether it's a mental projection from Shepard's mind or a facet of indoctrination---or, of course, both---doesn't matter.

If BioWare intended the kid to be real they did a horrible job at portraying him as such.

Back when the demo was released, even before we knew godchild took the same form, I remember seeing threads saying the kid might be a hallucination.

The kid being a hallucination idea predates IT by quite a long time, so its not just us who think he's not real.

Mental projections of people, ones that speak in prophetic tones like he does, predate Mass Effect in the film and media realm by at least 50 years. 

If he's real? (laughs) I just ... wow. 

[masster blaster]

How many of you on your first play through Picked Control or Synthesis? Because I did because curiosity got the better of me. That is why I think Bioware made the other two choices as they are so that they can trick us into thinking there is a way to stop this but what are you willing to sacrifices

Red:Shepard dies, geth die, EDI dies, Reapers die/ God child ,all tech gone, citadel blown up/relays, and Normandy goes bye bye

Blue:Shepard dies,Reapers live,Normandy bye bye,Citadel stays, Shepard commands all synthetics/ enslave them.

Green: Shepard dies/turn in to DNA,everyone becomes a hippie,peace,Adam and Eve with the Normandy crew

Really there is nothing that Shepard gives up except his/her life and that's it, or you can take Destroy and be evil, only to find out it was the right choice in the end.What I mean by that is everything at the final end game is all a lie and even tough we think there can be a happy ending there really is not.For Bioware fouled a lot of the fans by adding Control and synthesis so that we think maybe everything can be a right in the end but the truth is it won't. Bioware wanted people to pick the other two because they new the Paragon fans would try to save the day by picking synthesis, and bring forever lasting peace, but for Renegade fans they use control rather than destroy because maybe the Renegade fans like the ideal of making the Reapers bow down to Shepard and maybe use the Reapers to kill everyone because they just wanted to be evil.

That's just what I think but I can only hope Shepard has a happy ending rather than die, but then again There is Red ending/destroy.

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

So when is E3?

Here you go.

Thanks byne

[byne]

masster blaster wrote...

How many of you on your first play through Picked Control or Synthesis? Because I did because curiosity got the better of me. That is why I think Bioware made the other two choices as they are so that they can trick us into thinking there is a way to stop this but what are you willing to sacrifices

I picked destroy the first time and every subsequent time.

I picked it because :

A) Thats what I came there to do
I figured that was the one I was most likely to survive in

A chance of survival played a part in my decision, because I promised Liara lots of little blue children, and when I make a promise, I keep it.

Hell, even Master Chief knows you keep promises you make to hot blue ladies.

[dreamgazer]

masster blaster wrote...

How many of you on your first play through Picked Control or Synthesis?

I'm one of the neanderthals who picked destroy because, uh, it's a finite resolution to the problem---and the others aren't.  

I can dance in circles around the philosophical implications, digest sound scientific reasoning behind each, and indulge in the theoretical utopian ideals that the pacifistic options entail---from meeting a singularity head-on to the positive benefits of health advancement that can come from synthesis.  And I'll still end right back at destroy, indoctrination attempt or not.  

Theoreticals only work in controlled, normal environments and under rigid stipulations. We don't have those.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 02 juin 2012 - 01:58 .

[byne]

dreamgazer wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

How many of you on your first play through Picked Control or Synthesis?

I'm one of the neanderthals who picked destroy because, uh, it's a finite resolution to the problem---and the others aren't.  

I can dance in circles around the philosophical implications, digest sound scientific reasoning behind each, and indulge in the theoretical utopian ideals that the pacifistic options entail---from meeting a singularity head-on to the positive benefits of health advancement that can come from synthesis.  And I'll still end right back at destroy, indoctrination attempt or not.  

Theoreticals only work in controlled, normal environments and under rigid stipulations. We don't have those.

Thinking about Synthesis, it really doesnt make much sense. It seems to be the Reapers' final solution to the synthetic question, yet they also are really banking on having a half-synthetic being there to help move it along.

Why would we even need to impose synthesis if organics were already able to do it on their own?

Also, what would happen if we'd thrown TIM's corpse in the beam instead of Shepard? He's part synthetic too.

[boeloe]

masster blaster wrote...

How many of you on your first play through Picked Control or Synthesis? Because I did because curiosity got the better of me. That is why I think Bioware made the other two choices as they are so that they can trick us into thinking there is a way to stop this but what are you willing to sacrifices

I choose synthesis, I was swayed by promises that the geth and EDI would survive.