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[HellishFiend]

A Reaper quote from Retribution:

"We are the keepers of the cycle. The creators and the destroyers. Your existence is a flicker, a spark. We can extinguish it — or we can preserve it. Submit to us and we can make you immortal."

"creators"

The Reapers consider themselves the creators?

[Corik]

HellishFiend wrote...

A Reaper quote from Retribution:

"We are the keepers of the cycle. The creators and the destroyers. Your existence is a flicker, a spark. We can extinguish it — or we can preserve it. Submit to us and we can make you immortal."

"creators"

The Reapers consider themselves the creators?

Yeah, that gives even more sense to rieperbieber's statement "the created will always turn against the creators".

[Rosewind]

byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...


No send Conrade and Allers that should safice.

Why would we send Conrad?!

We only send Allers because we hate Allers.

No one hates Conrad!

I love him he like a alittle lost puppy

[Rosewind]

Corik wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

A Reaper quote from Retribution:

"We are the keepers of the cycle. The creators and the destroyers. Your existence is a flicker, a spark. We can extinguish it — or we can preserve it. Submit to us and we can make you immortal."

"creators"

The Reapers consider themselves the creators?

Yeah, that gives even more sense to rieperbieber's statement "the created will always turn against the creators".

And they punish us for it, silly Starbinger

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

[Sammuthegreat]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

[paxxton]

Hello everyone! What's cooking?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

Shepard would call anyone in his/her entire squad friends former or current member (depending on the Shepard being played I suppose, but for the most part) especially the LI if it's not Liara/VS. You could almost say that the 3 shown are the only ones who don't die but the VS can during the Citadel coup, but if that's the case then you'll see Liara any way. You also see Anderson die right infront of you, even if it is an illusion I suppose it  would be real to Shepard. On top of that Liara actually can die if you bring her with you during the final mission and have low EMS, you'll see your two squadmates dead on the ground in place of the grunts when you get up.

[paxxton]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

Shepard would call anyone in his/her entire squad friends former or current member (depending on the Shepard being played I suppose, but for the most part) especially the LI if it's not Liara/VS. You could almost say that the 3 shown are the only ones who don't die but the VS can during the Citadel coup, but if that's the case then you'll see Liara any way. You also see Anderson die right infront of you, even if it is an illusion I suppose it  would be real to Shepard. On top of that Liara actually can die if you bring her with you during the final mission and have low EMS, you'll see your two squadmates dead on the ground in place of the grunts when you get up.

Apart from what you've already said (they being with Shepard from the beginning) the only other justification for showing those people only would be an arbitrary decision by BioWare. I mean they wanted to find a common denominator for every player (even those who started playing from the third game).

[Ytook]

RavenEyry wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

On my first play through I got suckered into synthesis despite my better judgement, the reapers(Bioware) definitely indoctrinated me.

Me too, but it was just cause I was curious, it was like "this I gotta see."

I chose synthesis the first time purely because I wanted to see what happened. I was dissapointed.

I chose synthesis to, I didn't think about the whole thing beyond I didn't want EDI and the Geth to die, but to be honest I was so fed up with the ending I just wanted it over and done with and I went with the option the magic space pixie seemed to like the most, I was to busy hating the literal ending to think that there may have been more to it.

[Sammuthegreat]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

Shepard would call anyone in his/her entire squad friends former or current member (depending on the Shepard being played I suppose, but for the most part) especially the LI if it's not Liara/VS. You could almost say that the 3 shown are the only ones who don't die but the VS can during the Citadel coup, but if that's the case then you'll see Liara any way. You also see Anderson die right infront of you, even if it is an illusion I suppose it  would be real to Shepard. On top of that Liara actually can die if you bring her with you during the final mission and have low EMS, you'll see your two squadmates dead on the ground in place of the grunts when you get up.

Yeah - my point was that anyone else could be dead before ME3 even starts. That includes the Virmire Survivor, but they only appear if they're your love interest (in which case they will be alive right up till Harby's beam at the earliest). Otherwise it defaults to Liara.

I don't think it's worth reading much into the three people shown. They're "safe" options by BioWare - there's no point putting in a bit of video for every character based on the fact they may have been more important to some people's Shepards, especially since that would mean tracking how much time people devoted to each squad mate. Especially since a lot of those squad mates won't have survived past ME2 (especially considering how many died in the suicide mission if you start a new ME3 game from scratch).

Joker, Anderson and Liara are guaranteed to survive up until the indoctrination sequence, and no other important character is. That's why they're in there.

[Sammuthegreat]

Ytook wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

On my first play through I got suckered into synthesis despite my better judgement, the reapers(Bioware) definitely indoctrinated me.

Me too, but it was just cause I was curious, it was like "this I gotta see."

I chose synthesis the first time purely because I wanted to see what happened. I was dissapointed.

I chose synthesis to, I didn't think about the whole thing beyond I didn't want EDI and the Geth to die, but to be honest I was so fed up with the ending I just wanted it over and done with and I went with the option the magic space pixie seemed to like the most, I was to busy hating the literal ending to think that there may have been more to it.

 

I chose Synthesis first time, because I didn't realise you had to go right to pick Destroy.

paxxton wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

Shepard would call anyone in his/her entire squad friends former or current member (depending on the Shepard being played I suppose, but for the most part) especially the LI if it's not Liara/VS. You could almost say that the 3 shown are the only ones who don't die but the VS can during the Citadel coup, but if that's the case then you'll see Liara any way. You also see Anderson die right infront of you, even if it is an illusion I suppose it  would be real to Shepard. On top of that Liara actually can die if you bring her with you during the final mission and have low EMS, you'll see your two squadmates dead on the ground in place of the grunts when you get up.

Apart from what you've already said (they being with Shepard from the beginning) the only other justification for showing those people only would be an arbitrary decision by BioWare. I mean they wanted to find a common denominator for every player (even those who started playing from the third game).

That's the point I was trying to make, thank you for phrasing it in a less garbled fashion than I did!

[paxxton]

Ytook wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

On my first play through I got suckered into synthesis despite my better judgement, the reapers(Bioware) definitely indoctrinated me.

Me too, but it was just cause I was curious, it was like "this I gotta see."

I chose synthesis the first time purely because I wanted to see what happened. I was dissapointed.

I chose synthesis to, I didn't think about the whole thing beyond I didn't want EDI and the Geth to die, but to be honest I was so fed up with the ending I just wanted it over and done with and I went with the option the magic space pixie seemed to like the most, I was to busy hating the literal ending to think that there may have been more to it.

I had a clear choice. Either Destroy or Control. You know what happened next.
The Citadel is still operational. And the Reapers are rebuilding the Mass Relay network as we speak.
At least they'd do it in the literal interpretation of the ending.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juin 2012 - 10:06 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

paxxton wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

Shepard would call anyone in his/her entire squad friends former or current member (depending on the Shepard being played I suppose, but for the most part) especially the LI if it's not Liara/VS. You could almost say that the 3 shown are the only ones who don't die but the VS can during the Citadel coup, but if that's the case then you'll see Liara any way. You also see Anderson die right infront of you, even if it is an illusion I suppose it  would be real to Shepard. On top of that Liara actually can die if you bring her with you during the final mission and have low EMS, you'll see your two squadmates dead on the ground in place of the grunts when you get up.

Apart from what you've already said (they being with Shepard from the beginning) the only other justification for showing those people only would be an arbitrary decision by BioWare. I mean they wanted to find a common denominator for every player (even those who started playing from the third game).

Suppose so, but if it's supposed to show the LI then why wouldn't they have made one for Traynor Cortez and Allers for the new player's sake? Still don't figure how they wouldn't at least make one for Tali and Garrus, they've been with us since ME1 as well and their Romance/Friendship with the Shepards is great.

The flashbacks play the same no matter your choice as well.... Got to be something about it we're supposed to catch... Showing their approval of your decision? A last goodbye? Life goes on? What you fought for? Or something more mysterious.... Glimmer of hope?

[Rosewind]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

Wouldn't call Liara a friend more like a lost puppy who wont leave you alone.

[Ytook]

They could have at leat shown your LI though surely? Mine was Garrus and it makes little sense that he wasn't shown. Mind you my sister really (really) likes Thane and is already pissed off that he died in a terribly done fight and then never gets mentioned by any of the crew ever, so I'm looking forward to her reaction

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

*snip*
Yeah - my point was that anyone else could be dead before ME3 even starts. That includes the Virmire Survivor, but they only appear if they're your love interest (in which case they will be alive right up till Harby's beam at the earliest). Otherwise it defaults to Liara.

I don't think it's worth reading much into the three people shown. They're "safe" options by BioWare - there's no point putting in a bit of video for every character based on the fact they may have been more important to some people's Shepards, especially since that would mean tracking how much time people devoted to each squad mate. Especially since a lot of those squad mates won't have survived past ME2 (especially considering how many died in the suicide mission if you start a new ME3 game from scratch).

Joker, Anderson and Liara are guaranteed to survive up until the indoctrination sequence, and no other important character is. That's why they're in there.

I understand your point, at least I think I do. Maybe I have no idea what it would take for Bioware to make the movies themselves, but I can't see it being very hard for the game to at least find out who you romanced and put that 2 second movie on regardless of if that romance option is alive. If you romanced no one than seeing Liara/VS would make sense, but if you romanced someone else........ i don't know. Could be nothing, but I've got this feeling there's more to it than "safe options" and "Bioware's ran out of time"

[Sammuthegreat]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Suppose so, but if it's supposed to show the LI then why wouldn't they have made one for Traynor Cortez and Allers for the new player's sake? Still don't figure how they wouldn't at least make one for Tali and Garrus, they've been with us since ME1 as well and their Romance/Friendship with the Shepards is great.

The flashbacks play the same no matter your choice as well.... Got to be something about it we're supposed to catch... Showing their approval of your decision? A last goodbye? Life goes on? What you fought for? Or something more mysterious.... Glimmer of hope?

See, this is what I mean - I think this is reading far too far into a montage that is purely designed to pull at the player's heart strings (oh how it failed, even if Liara does look beautiful in her shot).

It's very easy to miss Allers out of the game entirely - even if you do spot her in the Normandy Docking Bay, it only takes one bit of dialogue to say no to her. And after that, if I remember correctly, you can get rid of her at any point. Hardly a character worth remembering for Shepard.

Cortez can die before the ending, although I admit it's possible to build a pretty strong relationship (romantic or not) with him by that point. Traynor I'll admit might have had one, but again I don't think enough players will have chosen her as a love interest, what with all the previous relationships hanging over from ME1 and 2. I think BioWare probably predicted that she'd be a niche romance - especially as she's female-only.

EDIT: forgot to mention, again, that Garrus and Tali will both be dead for a whole lot of players. I agree, I'd have liked to see them included, but I can understand why they weren't, and I don't think there's any ulterior motive here.

Rosewind wrote...
Wouldn't call Liara a friend more like a lost puppy who wont leave you alone.

 

YOU TAKE THAT BACK. RIGHT NOW. 

Modifié par Sammuthegreat, 02 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[Sammuthegreat]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
I understand your point, at least I think I do. Maybe I have no idea what it would take for Bioware to make the movies themselves, but I can't see it being very hard for the game to at least find out who you romanced and put that 2 second movie on regardless of if that romance option is alive. If you romanced no one than seeing Liara/VS would make sense, but if you romanced someone else........ i don't know. Could be nothing, but I've got this feeling there's more to it than "safe options" and "Bioware's ran out of time"

I agree it wouldn't have taken much, and I don't think it was a case of BioWare running out of time. I think it was a design choice based on who they estimated would be the least-used romance options - or at very worst, I think it was just an oversight.

[paxxton]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Funny story, I accidently hit the Submit button and got booted to the Add Reply screen with the error message "Text is a mandatory field".

Anyway, Still caught up on the question of why Bioware only shows us flashbacks of Joker, Anderson, Liara/Virmire Survivor when choosing. Aside from the "Bioware was lazy" answer I mean. So far similarities are: All have been with you from ME1, Liara/VS were the original Love Interest options, all can be said to be plot important in at least one if not all three games.

Aren't they the only characters Shepard would call friends (not including Hackett for that reason) that are guaranteed to still be alive at the end of ME3? Liara, Joker and Anderson, that is. The Virmire Survivor only gets substituted in for Liara if they're your love interest, as far as I'm aware.

Shepard would call anyone in his/her entire squad friends former or current member (depending on the Shepard being played I suppose, but for the most part) especially the LI if it's not Liara/VS. You could almost say that the 3 shown are the only ones who don't die but the VS can during the Citadel coup, but if that's the case then you'll see Liara any way. You also see Anderson die right infront of you, even if it is an illusion I suppose it  would be real to Shepard. On top of that Liara actually can die if you bring her with you during the final mission and have low EMS, you'll see your two squadmates dead on the ground in place of the grunts when you get up.

Apart from what you've already said (they being with Shepard from the beginning) the only other justification for showing those people only would be an arbitrary decision by BioWare. I mean they wanted to find a common denominator for every player (even those who started playing from the third game).

Suppose so, but if it's supposed to show the LI then why wouldn't they have made one for Traynor Cortez and Allers for the new player's sake? Still don't figure how they wouldn't at least make one for Tali and Garrus, they've been with us since ME1 as well and their Romance/Friendship with the Shepards is great.

The flashbacks play the same no matter your choice as well.... Got to be something about it we're supposed to catch... Showing their approval of your decision? A last goodbye? Life goes on? What you fought for? Or something more mysterious.... Glimmer of hope?

I don't think the third flashback is meant to show your LI. Otherwise, they should've done other characters as well.
Tali, Garrus and Wrex can be rejected in ME1 and not become squadmatees until ME2 or even ME3.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Sammuthegreat wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Suppose so, but if it's supposed to show the LI then why wouldn't they have made one for Traynor Cortez and Allers for the new player's sake? Still don't figure how they wouldn't at least make one for Tali and Garrus, they've been with us since ME1 as well and their Romance/Friendship with the Shepards is great.

The flashbacks play the same no matter your choice as well.... Got to be something about it we're supposed to catch... Showing their approval of your decision? A last goodbye? Life goes on? What you fought for? Or something more mysterious.... Glimmer of hope?

See, this is what I mean - I think this is reading far too far into a montage that is purely designed to pull at the player's heart strings (oh how it failed, even if Liara does look beautiful in her shot).

It's very easy to miss Allers out of the game entirely - even if you do spot her in the Normandy Docking Bay, it only takes one bit of dialogue to say no to her. And after that, if I remember correctly, you can get rid of her at any point. Hardly a character worth remembering for Shepard.

Cortez can die before the ending, although I admit it's possible to build a pretty strong relationship (romantic or not) with him by that point. Traynor I'll admit might have had one, but again I don't think enough players will have chosen her as a love interest, what with all the previous relationships hanging over from ME1 and 2. I think BioWare probably predicted that she'd be a niche romance - especially as she's female-only.

EDIT: forgot to mention, again, that Garrus and Tali will both be dead for a whole lot of players. I agree, I'd have liked to see them included, but I can understand why they weren't, and I don't think there's any ulterior motive here.

If this isn't a thread to post far fetched ideas concerning the ending I'm not sure I'm supposed to post them anymore .

Let me try and clear this up.
The flashbacks at the end show you:
Joker - long time friend
Anderson - Mentor/Friend
Liara - Love Interest/Friend
Ashely - Love Interest/Friend
Kaidan - Love Interest/Friend

I am asking the potential significance in why Bioware wouldn't show characters such as Garrus or Tali who are as close to Shepard as Liara/VS and potential Love Interest regardless of whether or not the majority of ME gamers didn't romance squadmate X or if squadmate X is even alive in their ME3 run. I believe the third flashback is supposed to show you your Love Interest but it only does so if your LI was Liara or the VS.

I haven't romanced Allers Cortez or Traynor on any of my Shepards and probably won't for awhile, I can say with certainty you build up good friendships with Traynor and Cortez, Allers mostly sticks to her roll as an extra feature of the Normandy (and you can boot her off the second she steps on the Normandy if you really want to). But that's beside the point.

What I see the flashbacks as showing you in order, from a semi-face value standpoint: Friend, Mentor, Love. But if you didn't romance those specific three, it shows you: Friend, Mentor, Friend. Which makes me ask, Why?

I'll continue to think on this, would appreciate feedback, doubt I'll come to any conclusion on my own but still fun to speculate on. I'm still toying with the idea that the entire ending sequence is a puzzle, from waking up to after credits.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 02 juin 2012 - 10:22 .

[Rosewind]

Maybe they show the VS because you went through a traumatic situation to save them maybe?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Rosewind wrote...

Maybe they show the VS because you went through a traumatic situation to save them maybe?

I thought that maybe, but then it shows Liara as well and there was no traumatic situation to save her on Virmire... Unless you count the prothean dig site but that wasn't a matter of choosing who lives and dies. And it only shows the VS if you romanced them so far as I know (thought it shows you Liara if you romanced no one or someone who isn't those 3 but can't say for sure)

[Lat2oo5]

Well, when I did modding to my character in ME2 the LI were all we know but, in ME3, there were only three options: Kaidan, Ashley and Liara, including points of affection which it was the first time I saw them. In my case, my LI was Miranda (or that is what I thought) and I had got Liara's flashback... ****.

Modifié par Lat2oo5, 02 juin 2012 - 10:52 .

[Rosewind]

Lat2oo5 wrote...

Well, when I did modding to my character in ME2 the LI were all we know but, in ME3, there were only three options: Kaidan, Ashley and Liara, including points of affection which it was the first time I saw them. In my case, my LI was Miranda (or that is what I thought) and I had got Liara's flashback... ****.

I got called Laira's gf by her dad even thought my femshep was single on that play through.