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[Big G13]

Rosewind wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

It might be that using all the "polite" responses builds affections and can be seen as "flirting" by the game. But c'mon who's rude to Liara.

As a ME1 Liara romancer...well...ok, it's hard to be rude to her in ME1. In ME3...let's say the writers did a good job in progressing the bromance with Garrus, but Liara...not so much.

Maybe the lack of the romantic equivalent with Liara is intended, since I definitely felt a distance between Shep and Liara in ME3. In other threads they would hang me for writing this because in ME3 the romance with her is said to feel more canony and present than with other characters.

And in my head this always brings me back to her maybe being under Reaper influence. As is probably every single one else in the galaxy. <_<

I totally agree. As soon as she knew she had you it was all business after that. Shep talks sweet and tries to get her to relax on the Citadel, and she sends him on an errand for the SB. Definitely not as much magic there in ME3.

Don't get me started on that errand makes no sense that i have to go to the SB to tell me to see her peon who then tells me the SB wants me to find someone, its like WHY DIDN"T YOU JUST TELL ME THAT!!

EXACTLY. Talk about adding insult to injury. what the.......

[MaximizedAction]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Maybe they show the VS because you went through a traumatic situation to save them maybe?

I thought that maybe, but then it shows Liara as well and there was no traumatic situation to save her on Virmire... Unless you count the prothean dig site but that wasn't a matter of choosing who lives and dies. And it only shows the VS if you romanced them so far as I know (thought it shows you Liara if you romanced no one or someone who isn't those 3 but can't say for sure)

And while we're at it, does anyone have an explaination or interpretation as to why Ash (VS in general?) is always idling in the observation deck and even drunk at some point.

I understand that the galaxy is rough place at that point but everyone else seems to be able to spend their time doing something useful. It almost seems like she's depressed or doesn't see any point in doing anything.

And if I remember correctly, same happens to pretty much everyone in London during the 'final' goodbyes. Everyone's standing around like a puppet, idling, waiting for someone or something to show them their way.

What's up with that? [/Seinfeld]

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 02 juin 2012 - 01:31 .

[Rifneno]

What bothers me about Liara's character in ME3 is that there's no reason for her to be the SB. Think about it. It's one of the few utterly unavoidable things, Liara WILL be in the squad and she WILL be the Shadow Broker. Why? What purpose has this served? What has her SB connections done that her old connections couldn't? Not the Crucible plans, those would've been found regardless since they finally cracked the lower vaults on the Prothean Ruins on Mars. It was mentioned back in January 2011's Cerberus Daily News. So what was the real purpose of her being the SB?

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...


Nope. Two reasons. First, Reapers' best defense is their kinetic barrier. It's made to deflect shots from a mass accelerator cannon. Probably part of the reason they left that technology around, so organics would be dependant on something they're well guarded against. Nuclear weapons operate completely differently. A kinetic barrier would be meaningless. Second, the nuke dropped on Hiroshima was nothing compared to high yield thermonuclear bombs. Hiroshima's was a fission bomb. About 15 kiltons. Fission bombs are believed to have a maximum yield of about 500 kiltons. Thermonuclear weapons, which are fusion bombs, are far more powerful. The most powerful bomb ever detonated by mankind was a Soviet fusion bomb, the Tsar Bomb. It had a yield of 50 megatons. 3,333 times the power of the one dropped on Hiroshima. Keep in mind, that was 1961. No larger bombs were ever built because they serve no practical purpose, but the technology is capable of significantly more than 50 megatons. There's also the theorized "pure" fusion bomb. Current fusion bombs use a smaller fission explosion to set themselves off whereas a pure fusion bomb would not require that. If such a thing is possible, its yield would likely dwarf fusion bombs the way fusion bombs did to fission bombs.

tl'dr version: nukes > reapers. There's a reason that nuclear missile silos were first strike targets for the Reapers. Remember what happened to the mothership in Independence Day? That's a more realistic depiction of the kind of nukes Mass Effect would have than Hiroshima.

Ehm the kinetic barrier kight be their best defense, but is far from their only defense. If nukes were so effective in Mass Effect, then why is nobody using them for ship based weaponry? Clearly some kind of technological advancement made them near useless.

I think part of the thing that makes near useless is the distances most engagements are fought on. Even a several km wide fireball is very little in space if the area beeing fought over is several thousand km in diameter.

Also then there is the GARDIAN system. Unless the defense overloaded, a nuke carrying missile will never explode at point blank. Even if the system is down the Kinetic Barrier will still stop the missile carrying the nuke from getting to point blank unless the missile is Mass increased like the Disruptor Torpedos.

Then there is also Ablative Armor of every Starship, designed to boil and melt of when impacted with heat dispersing it from the ship itself. This is used in knife fights when the GARDIAN system can directly attack another ship with its lasers and for DEW´s (Directed Energy Weapons)

Finally I am pretty sure a Ship is shielded from the kind of radiation a nuke would give of, remember Space is not exactly devoid of radiation.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 02 juin 2012 - 01:36 .

[dreamgazer]

Rifneno wrote...

What bothers me about Liara's character in ME3 is that there's no reason for her to be the SB. Think about it. It's one of the few utterly unavoidable things, Liara WILL be in the squad and she WILL be the Shadow Broker. Why? What purpose has this served? What has her SB connections done that her old connections couldn't? Not the Crucible plans, those would've been found regardless since they finally cracked the lower vaults on the Prothean Ruins on Mars. It was mentioned back in January 2011's Cerberus Daily News. So what was the real purpose of her being the SB?

My outlook is that she coordinated a LOT of the resource gathering to create the Crucible, and I'm almost dead-certain that she had a hand in the Mordin-Wrex link via her Shadow Broker communications.  People dismiss the: "I'm sure the Shadow Broker was busy" line as a way of her saying she didn't know; I think it's a cheeky way of admitting she did.

[Rifneno]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ehm the kinetic barrier kight be their best defense, but is probably far from their only defense. If nukes were so effective in Mass Effect, then why is nobody using them for ship based weaponry? Clearly some kind of technological advancement made them useless.

I think part of the thing that makes near useless is the distances most engagements are fought on. Even a several km wide fireball is very little in space if the area beeing fought over is several thousand km in diameter.

Also then there is the GARDIAN system. Unless the defense overloaded, a nuke carrying missile will never explode at point blank. Even if the system is down the Kinetic Barrier will still stop the missile carrying the nuke from getting to point blank unless the missile is Mass increased like the Disruptor Torpedos.

Then there is also Ablative Armor of every Starship, designed to boil and melt of when impacted with heat dispersing it from the ship itself. This is used in knife fights when the GARDIAN system can directly attack another ship with its lasers and for DEW´s (Directed Energy Weapons)

Finally I am pretty sure a Ship is shielded from the kind of radiation a nuke would give of, remember Space is not exactly devoid of radiation.

You're right on all of it except the last part.  Getting a nuke TO a Reaper would be the hard part.  Virtually impossible in standard warefare.  If you did, it'd be game over for the Reaper.  The damage comes in two forms.  Pressure and heat.  Both are... immense.  The Reaper would be hit so hard there'd be nothing of it left.  It would just be gone.   Ablative armor would be useless when everything around you is in the millions of degrees (for reference sake, the highest melting point of any known metal is tungsten at 3410 °C, 6170 °F).  Of course, the armor would also be hit with a blast of pressure strong enough to atomize it. 

[MaximizedAction]

Rifneno wrote...

What bothers me about Liara's character in ME3 is that there's no reason for her to be the SB. Think about it. It's one of the few utterly unavoidable things, Liara WILL be in the squad and she WILL be the Shadow Broker. Why? What purpose has this served? What has her SB connections done that her old connections couldn't? Not the Crucible plans, those would've been found regardless since they finally cracked the lower vaults on the Prothean Ruins on Mars. It was mentioned back in January 2011's Cerberus Daily News. So what was the real purpose of her being the SB?

Being the SB puts her in a pretty vital position for galactic order, doesn't it?

Gosh, wouldn't want her under the Reapers influence, she could do some heavy damage on all things information (politics, trading, finance, etc.).
Similar only to what Shepard could have as the moral leader (s)he is.
And don't get me started on Hackett...

Yeah, we're screwed...

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 02 juin 2012 - 01:43 .

[paxxton]

Liara indoctrinated. That'd be so cool.  Despite everything, she's merciless and cold-hearted. She knows how to use people without them even noticing that. I guess that must be an asari thing.

If she were to be indoctrinated, things could turn out really REALLY nasty.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juin 2012 - 02:00 .

[Rosewind]

paxxton wrote...

Liara indoctrinated. That'd be so cool.

I think she might be, can't remember who said but she does seem quite distant in ME3 even to her best friend aka my cannon-non-head-cannon Shepard.

Edit: they really need an Asari Infiltrator(my favourite class), like Liara dad says Asari are good at infiltrating and sabotage makes sense there should be one in MP.

Modifié par Rosewind, 02 juin 2012 - 01:55 .

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Liara indoctrinated. That'd be so cool.

I think she might be, can't remember who said but she does seem quite distant in ME3 even to her best friend aka my cannon-non-head-cannon Shepard.

She seems like a Liar-a.  She became so in ME2 after the Collectors' attack on the Normandy.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juin 2012 - 02:05 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Rifneno wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ehm the kinetic barrier kight be their best defense, but is probably far from their only defense. If nukes were so effective in Mass Effect, then why is nobody using them for ship based weaponry? Clearly some kind of technological advancement made them useless.

I think part of the thing that makes near useless is the distances most engagements are fought on. Even a several km wide fireball is very little in space if the area beeing fought over is several thousand km in diameter.

Also then there is the GARDIAN system. Unless the defense overloaded, a nuke carrying missile will never explode at point blank. Even if the system is down the Kinetic Barrier will still stop the missile carrying the nuke from getting to point blank unless the missile is Mass increased like the Disruptor Torpedos.

Then there is also Ablative Armor of every Starship, designed to boil and melt of when impacted with heat dispersing it from the ship itself. This is used in knife fights when the GARDIAN system can directly attack another ship with its lasers and for DEW´s (Directed Energy Weapons)

Finally I am pretty sure a Ship is shielded from the kind of radiation a nuke would give of, remember Space is not exactly devoid of radiation.

You're right on all of it except the last part.  Getting a nuke TO a Reaper would be the hard part.  Virtually impossible in standard warefare.  If you did, it'd be game over for the Reaper.  The damage comes in two forms.  Pressure and heat.  Both are... immense.  The Reaper would be hit so hard there'd be nothing of it left.  It would just be gone.   Ablative armor would be useless when everything around you is in the millions of degrees (for reference sake, the highest melting point of any known metal is tungsten at 3410 °C, 6170 °F).  Of course, the armor would also be hit with a blast of pressure strong enough to atomize it. 

Just found really good reason nukes are not used for ship to ship combat.

The force and heat effect of nuke is purely limted to an atmosphere. The radiation of the atomic bomb disperses in the form of heat and force through the air around it, but without an atmosphere the nuke delivers its entire payload purely in the form of radiation.

So unless the Reapers are planetside the nukes have zero effect...

Oh and even planetside you need to place a nuke spot on for full effect. To put it like this the Hiroshima bomb exploded for a heat of 300.000 Kelvin at the center...the ground however, 400 m below was only affected with a heat of 6.000 Kelvin...

Prety drastic drop, so unless that nuke gets really close (like how the Korgan and Turian smuggled a few inside Reapers) I dont think there will be much of an effect.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 02 juin 2012 - 02:18 .

[Stigweird85]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...


Nope. Two reasons. First, Reapers' best defense is their kinetic barrier. It's made to deflect shots from a mass accelerator cannon. Probably part of the reason they left that technology around, so organics would be dependant on something they're well guarded against. Nuclear weapons operate completely differently. A kinetic barrier would be meaningless. Second, the nuke dropped on Hiroshima was nothing compared to high yield thermonuclear bombs. Hiroshima's was a fission bomb. About 15 kiltons. Fission bombs are believed to have a maximum yield of about 500 kiltons. Thermonuclear weapons, which are fusion bombs, are far more powerful. The most powerful bomb ever detonated by mankind was a Soviet fusion bomb, the Tsar Bomb. It had a yield of 50 megatons. 3,333 times the power of the one dropped on Hiroshima. Keep in mind, that was 1961. No larger bombs were ever built because they serve no practical purpose, but the technology is capable of significantly more than 50 megatons. There's also the theorized "pure" fusion bomb. Current fusion bombs use a smaller fission explosion to set themselves off whereas a pure fusion bomb would not require that. If such a thing is possible, its yield would likely dwarf fusion bombs the way fusion bombs did to fission bombs.

tl'dr version: nukes > reapers. There's a reason that nuclear missile silos were first strike targets for the Reapers. Remember what happened to the mothership in Independence Day? That's a more realistic depiction of the kind of nukes Mass Effect would have than Hiroshima.

Ehm the kinetic barrier kight be their best defense, but is far from their only defense. If nukes were so effective in Mass Effect, then why is nobody using them for ship based weaponry? Clearly some kind of technological advancement made them near useless.

I think part of the thing that makes near useless is the distances most engagements are fought on. Even a several km wide fireball is very little in space if the area beeing fought over is several thousand km in diameter.

Also then there is the GARDIAN system. Unless the defense overloaded, a nuke carrying missile will never explode at point blank. Even if the system is down the Kinetic Barrier will still stop the missile carrying the nuke from getting to point blank unless the missile is Mass increased like the Disruptor Torpedos.

Then there is also Ablative Armor of every Starship, designed to boil and melt of when impacted with heat dispersing it from the ship itself. This is used in knife fights when the GARDIAN system can directly attack another ship with its lasers and for DEW´s (Directed Energy Weapons)

Finally I am pretty sure a Ship is shielded from the kind of radiation a nuke would give of, remember Space is not exactly devoid of radiation.

Just adding the the whole "nuke" debate.

I always thought that that the universe as a whole generally condemmend the use of nuclear weapons and had advanced beyond the need for nuclear weapons. Rememebr back in ME1 you had a side mission where you had to disarm satellites that were tipped with a nuclear payload to stop any would be thieves recovering our technology.  At the time you had to do it before the coucil found out as it was a reckless action to have nuclear bobby traps.

The closest thing to a nuclear weapon in-game is the M-920 Cain however

The effectiveness and efficiency of mass-effect-based weapon technology has rendered large-scale deployment of highly explosive weaponry all but obsolete in infantry weapons. Normandy's scientists have prototyped a modified version of traditional high-explosive rounds that is applied to a 25-gram slug. When accelerated to 5 km/s, the round is devastating. Though a technically inaccurate label, this prototype weapon is nicknamed the "Nuke Launcher," and its high-explosive matrix generates an archetypical mushroom cloud on impact.

The only other instances of nuclear weaponary that I found was about Tuchanka(which happened prior to the Rachni wars), or Tyvor(who commited suicide by detonating their weapons rather than being captured)

[SirLugash]

Rifneno wrote...

I sincerely hope it is inconsequential. It's got a colossal flaw. The Milky Way is one galaxy of hundreds of billions in the observable universe. If dark energy was going to rip reality apart, it's going to do it regardless. Fixing the problem in the Milky Way and expecting the universe to keep going is like sticking a wine cork in an iceberg shaped hole and expecting the Titanic to be fine.

Considering the Reapers harvest the galaxy every 50k years, I would assume that the dark energy problem only occurs in milky way because of the extensive use of dark energy for mass relays, biotics etc.
Other galaxies may either not have the technology to use dark energy or, as you already said, they have their own kind of reapers.

Modifié par SirLugash, 02 juin 2012 - 02:36 .

[paxxton]

What if the squadmate whom you left on Virmire actually survived and was indoctrinated. And is planning revenge with Harbinger!

@Rifneno: Maybe other Galaxies have their own Mass Effects and Reapers.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juin 2012 - 02:51 .

[Ytook]

On the nuclear weapon debate, using Hiroshima is not a particularly good way of measuring current nuclear weapons (or speculative ME nuclear weapons) as it was a relatively 'small' device, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was more powerful. The Hiroshima bomb produced an explosive force of around 14,000 tonnes of TNT while the Nagasaki bomb around 22,000 tonnes. Considering that the most powerful bomb developed by the USSR during the Cold War had the force of 50,000,000 tonnes and tests on both sides were leading to the development of warheads with the power of around 100,000,000 tonnes, I think it's safe to assume that at the time of me3 the weapons could be far more powerful.

[paxxton]

You can destroy a whole Reaper capital ship armada with one of those:

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juin 2012 - 02:57 .

[Rosewind]

paxxton wrote...

What if the squadmate whom you left on Virmire actually survived and was indoctrinated. And is planning revenge with Harbinger!

@Rifneno: Maybe other Galaxies have their own Mass Effects and Reapers.

That would be intresting about the VS that is

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

You can destroy a whole Reaper capital ship armada with one of those:

Or more efficient, lure the Reapers to the necessary vicinity of something like this. Btw, we already do have something like this. Gotta push them through the Omega 4 relay.

Right in TIM's face, that'd a nice present from Aria to him.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Ytook wrote...

On the nuclear weapon debate, using Hiroshima is not a particularly good way of measuring current nuclear weapons (or speculative ME nuclear weapons) as it was a relatively 'small' device, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was more powerful. The Hiroshima bomb produced an explosive force of around 14,000 tonnes of TNT while the Nagasaki bomb around 22,000 tonnes. Considering that the most powerful bomb developed by the USSR during the Cold War had the force of 50,000,000 tonnes and tests on both sides were leading to the development of warheads with the power of around 100,000,000 tonnes, I think it's safe to assume that at the time of me3 the weapons could be far more powerful.

I wasnet using it so much as a example of force, more as an example of how fast the heat drops as you get away from ground zero. It was a way to say that you need to get the nuke pretty close or its power will drop dramatically, possibly below what is needed.

[Turbo_J]

Rosewind wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Liara indoctrinated. That'd be so cool.

I think she might be, can't remember who said but she does seem quite distant in ME3 even to her best friend aka my cannon-non-head-cannon Shepard.

Edit: they really need an Asari Infiltrator(my favourite class), like Liara dad says Asari are good at infiltrating and sabotage makes sense there should be one in MP.

First, more than half my Sheps romance Liara... That doesn't mean 'I' trust her. I do lover her as a character and that would make her being a sleeper agent from the get go all the better!

I suspected her as soon as she opened her mouth about the 'magic bullet' in a 'just suddenly now available archive'. Right place, right time! Again... This is getting to be more than coincidental. And Hackett knows what! How?

I think she's been an unwitting servant of the cycle since the beginning. Perhaps since visiting Athame's temple with her mom over 90 years ago.

ME1 - damsel in distress. Seems harmless, but I was still wary. I wanted to show her the airlock a few times... She also seemed to have an obsessive personality, and latched on to Shep even without Romancing - though in some cases a bug in the dialog bool made it seem worse with the nijamancing.

If you push her, or challenge her at the dialog wheel, she slips up, dropping the innocent facade as her demeanor and attitude change just for a second, until she composes herself. Back to the old Liara; kind and soft spoken.

ME2 - Even though the Collectors were to get Sheps body from the Yahg, Harbi had a contingency plan. This cycles splinter group - which they had been conditioning well before ME1. The side benefit to that, was most of Cerberus still had enough intelligence to be productive, despite long term indoctrination of a key few.

Cerberus rebuilt Shep with Reaper tech. And Liara gave him/her right to them! Thanks for that.

Liara, again can get all pissed off at you if you refuse to help her. She first tries to sweet talk you, then she uses anger, smashes her desk, and hopes guilt will do the rest.

ME3 - She's helping you scurry around trying to solve a problem that can't be fixed... and she's more creepy and cold than ever before... And see doesn't seem to understand the concept of knocking or using a comm to ask if I'm available to chat? As an LI, if she was 'living' with me in my quarters, fine... but WTH?

I also noticed the 'your mine now, so go away until I need you' attitude in regards to the romance. It was either bad writing/time constraints or it will make for a good reveal.

The lack of in depth dialog with anyone on the ship after Citadel II annoyed me.

[Ytook]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ytook wrote...

On the nuclear weapon debate, using Hiroshima is not a particularly good way of measuring current nuclear weapons (or speculative ME nuclear weapons) as it was a relatively 'small' device, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was more powerful. The Hiroshima bomb produced an explosive force of around 14,000 tonnes of TNT while the Nagasaki bomb around 22,000 tonnes. Considering that the most powerful bomb developed by the USSR during the Cold War had the force of 50,000,000 tonnes and tests on both sides were leading to the development of warheads with the power of around 100,000,000 tonnes, I think it's safe to assume that at the time of me3 the weapons could be far more powerful.

I wasnet using it so much as a example of force, more as an example of how fast the heat drops as you get away from ground zero. It was a way to say that you need to get the nuke pretty close or its power will drop dramatically, possibly below what is needed.

Sorry, it's just a lot of people make the mistake of using the Hiroshima bomb as an example of force so it's almost an automatic response now. Some people when I started my course didn't even now that the Nagasaki bomb existed , would have thought that would be pretty important for international relations... 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Turbo_J wrote...

Trollgunner wrote...

Some pages ago I asked about TIM's "incredible power to control humans" no one answered yet. I'll ask again, do you think that his ability to control you and Miranda's father statement about finishing "smth" to control indocrinated, are connected?

In a way. The though of that control being possible is a suggestion planted in Sheps mind and would work within a hallucination/indoctrination scenario, but in reality - there is no precedent for controlling the body without total control of the mind... e.g. Harbinger, assuming direct(total) control.

Sanctuary is a well designed trap by the Reapers.

First it makes Shepard think they are not working together, or are enemies. This does two things; it creates doubt that TIM is indoctrinated and it puts forth the slight possibility that TIM may have found a way to control husks. Although controlling a Reaper is mentioned, it's never qualified.

The fact that the base was attacked may lead players/Shep to think TIM was on to something and that the Reapers 'may have a weakness'

The mundane answer to the attach is playing with the signal simply got the Reapers attention and drew in attack forces.

The convoluted answer is that the entire scene was staged as a lead up to tricking Shep into picking control - thinking it may be possible.

If you read the datapads @ sanctuary, you'll notice that it was a Reaper goo processing center. Cerberus was tricked into doing the Reapers work for them - liquefying the dead with a new 'special' process, just like the rogue collector faction did in the Prothian cycle with the drone bugs. The method was different, but the results would probably eventually be the same... Collectors = Cybermodded Cerberus Agents without the ability to think for themselves. (read the datapad on N7 Cerberus Lab - Private Talavi's Brother.)

You know that actually amkes alot of sense. If Sanctuary was actaully a threat they wanted gone quickly the Reaper would simply have "taken a few shots from Space."

[Turbo_J]

SirLugash wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I sincerely hope it is inconsequential. It's got a colossal flaw. The Milky Way is one galaxy of hundreds of billions in the observable universe. If dark energy was going to rip reality apart, it's going to do it regardless. Fixing the problem in the Milky Way and expecting the universe to keep going is like sticking a wine cork in an iceberg shaped hole and expecting the Titanic to be fine.

Considering the Reapers harvest the galaxy every 50k years, I would assume that the dark energy problem only occurs in milky way because of the extensive use of dark energy for mass relays, biotics etc.
Other galaxies may either not have the technology to use dark energy or, as you already said, they have their own kind of reapers.

The only problem with this is the logic loop it creates. It's almost as bad as the synthetics will always kill organics cycle.

If Dark Energy is really that big of a problem that could result in the destruction of the galaxy... and it is caused by the use of Mass Effect technology and biotics, why would the Reapers leave this tech for organics to find and thus guide them down a direct path to galactic annihilation? Why wouldn't they simply eliminate all Mass Effect tech and developed a way to render Eezo inert.

I think the Dark Energy build up is a threat to the Reapers, not the galaxy. I think the cycle is there to prevent DE buildup and to prevent organics from making a logic link/discovery... That the solution to the Reaper problem is using that build up of DE via the Crucible or something like it, to take care of the Reaper threat once and for all.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Ytook wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ytook wrote...

On the nuclear weapon debate, using Hiroshima is not a particularly good way of measuring current nuclear weapons (or speculative ME nuclear weapons) as it was a relatively 'small' device, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was more powerful. The Hiroshima bomb produced an explosive force of around 14,000 tonnes of TNT while the Nagasaki bomb around 22,000 tonnes. Considering that the most powerful bomb developed by the USSR during the Cold War had the force of 50,000,000 tonnes and tests on both sides were leading to the development of warheads with the power of around 100,000,000 tonnes, I think it's safe to assume that at the time of me3 the weapons could be far more powerful.

I wasnet using it so much as a example of force, more as an example of how fast the heat drops as you get away from ground zero. It was a way to say that you need to get the nuke pretty close or its power will drop dramatically, possibly below what is needed.

Sorry, it's just a lot of people make the mistake of using the Hiroshima bomb as an example of force so it's almost an automatic response now. Some people when I started my course didn't even now that the Nagasaki bomb existed , would have thought that would be pretty important for international relations... 

Some people dident know of the Nagasaki bomb...seriusly?

I was in Japan just a month ago and I specifically made sure to take a trip around Hiroshima to pay my respects to the dead of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Would have gone to Nagasaki as well ahd I ahd the time, probably will on later trip.

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki has been major historical points of interest for me since school...even if I was born long after the events I still feel it is incredibly important to remember them.

But back on topic, basicly my argument is that it is even if nukes work against the Reapers, it is incredibly hard to pull of. Foregoing that nukes are allready practically useless if detonated in space, getting a nuke close to a Reaper on the ground is probably just as hard.

If missile deployed the Reapers GARDIAN system could take care of it no matter if the Reaper is ground side or not, not even counting other possible anti missile defenses...and a ground deployed nuke would be practically impossible to get into position close enough...

Off course the Krogan and Turians pulled of smuggling nukes into Reapers, but I think that is a tactic that only works once.

Also considering the Reapers probably only land in heavily populated areas you would have to count in friendly casualties in every deployment of a nuke.

[Turbo_J]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ytook wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Ytook wrote...

On the nuclear weapon debate, using Hiroshima is not a particularly good way of measuring current nuclear weapons (or speculative ME nuclear weapons) as it was a relatively 'small' device, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was more powerful. The Hiroshima bomb produced an explosive force of around 14,000 tonnes of TNT while the Nagasaki bomb around 22,000 tonnes. Considering that the most powerful bomb developed by the USSR during the Cold War had the force of 50,000,000 tonnes and tests on both sides were leading to the development of warheads with the power of around 100,000,000 tonnes, I think it's safe to assume that at the time of me3 the weapons could be far more powerful.

I wasnet using it so much as a example of force, more as an example of how fast the heat drops as you get away from ground zero. It was a way to say that you need to get the nuke pretty close or its power will drop dramatically, possibly below what is needed.

Sorry, it's just a lot of people make the mistake of using the Hiroshima bomb as an example of force so it's almost an automatic response now. Some people when I started my course didn't even now that the Nagasaki bomb existed , would have thought that would be pretty important for international relations... 

Some people dident know of the Nagasaki bomb...seriusly?

I was in Japan just a month ago and I specifically made sure to take a trip around Hiroshima to pay my respects to the dead of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Would have gone to Nagasaki as well ahd I ahd the time, probably will on later trip.

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki has been major historical points of interest for me since school...even if I was born long after the events I still feel it is incredibly important to remember them.

But back on topic, basicly my argument is that it is even if nukes work against the Reapers, it is incredibly hard to pull of. Foregoing that nukes are allready practically useless if detonated in space, getting a nuke close to a Reaper on the ground is probably just as hard.

If missile deployed the Reapers GARDIAN system could take care of it no matter if the Reaper is ground side or not, not even counting other possible anti missile defenses...and a ground deployed nuke would be practically impossible to get into position close enough...

Off course the Krogan and Turians pulled of smuggling nukes into Reapers, but I think that is a tactic that only works once.

Also considering the Reapers probably only land in heavily populated areas you would have to count in friendly casualties in every deployment of a nuke.

Agreed.

This is a logistics problem with the Thanix missiles used on the Reaper during the push to the conduit... and another reason I think Shep may have been hallucinating well before either the tank crash or the Harbi beam hit.... or the Reaper allowed itself to be taken out, like the one on Rannoch did (same reaper as Tuchanka but can only fire slow and in a straight line? Not likely).

Thanix missiles move so slow comparatively to how fast a Reaper AI could react that there is no way those missiles could reach their target without significant diversion... even with on board, adaptive counter measures to counter the targets countermeasures, the Reaper could react too fast... What do we do when something is flying at our face? ...and that's just human involuntary defensive reaction time.

rockets < lasers