55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Big G13]

POSTING A CORRECTION: I said it was Ivenoidea's post that pulled to the 'Coats as a Reaper agent side of the argument' but it was Boeloe's post back on page 424. But that was 18 hrs. ago and I'm still awake so, please, cut me some slack.

[TSA_383]

HellishFiend wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've heard of the possibility of Coates being a reaper agent but nothing about him being a hallucination. Anyone willing to recap the evidence supporting that?

I'm not 100% knowledgable on the subject, but off the top of my head:

• No other characters aside from Shepard are seen directly acknowledging or conversing with Coates.
• Camera highlights a warning sign in the mako right next to Coates' head
• His character just seems to be too "off" to be real.
• There are several other elements (falling scraps of paper, bobbing camera, etc), to suggest that there are dream/hallucination elements creeping into the foreground of Shepard's consciousness in London.

I don't buy coates as an illusion, a reaper agent, yes totally, but not an illusion.
I still think we're missing stuff from the original cinematic trailer by the way...

[dsl08002]

prettz wrote...

dsl08002 wrote...

One thing that is very difficult to contradict the IT theory is shepards eyes when you are at the ending when chosing synthesis or controll.

because even by some possibility that it was graphics at that point: the eyes have speciall pattern and they glow. that is what i found a very strong case for IT

posted this earler but if you have not seen it, hears a upclose high rez of the eyes

holy cow this should settle it then

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've heard of the possibility of Coates being a reaper agent but nothing about him being a hallucination. Anyone willing to recap the evidence supporting that?

I'm not 100% knowledgable on the subject, but off the top of my head:

• No other characters aside from Shepard are seen directly acknowledging or conversing with Coates.
• Camera highlights a warning sign in the mako right next to Coates' head
• His character just seems to be too "off" to be real.
• There are several other elements (falling scraps of paper, bobbing camera, etc), to suggest that there are dream/hallucination elements creeping into the foreground of Shepard's consciousness in London.

I really think that's stretching it. Then we have to assume Anderson is a hallucination too, since he picks up where Coats leaves off in conversation during the shuttle pickup.

That and wouldn't Anderson and others wonder who the hell Shepard is talking to?

And to be fair, I've seen Garrus' head next to the caution sign in Sur'Kesh. Should I be careful with Garrus too? This is starting to become more like paranoia.

[shteuyn]

Hey! I'm new at this forum so I don't know if it has been mentioned before (I have read most of this thread but sadly did not get to analyze the previous legendary one) but in The Final Hours app one of the last segments is a comparison between some scenes that were deleted and how they were made differently in the final game. One of them is very interesting. The deleted scene shown is of your squadmates being hit by Harbinger's beam just like Shepard, which we know doesn't happen. But in the final scene equivalent Shepard is the only one to be shown getting hit by the beam like everyone knows, but when he wakes up his squadmates bodies are still lying on the ground nearby. Now, I may be crazy, but in the final game that I played there are no squadmates lying on the floor! Right? We don't know what happens to them. This means that this scene where you actually see they're bodies on the floor was supposed to be the final scene until very very very late in development, even after Geoff Keighley (the creator of the app) finished this making of. Which means they would be shown dead even though the final cinematic could show one of them exiting the Normandy at the jungle planet. I mean if we had EDI as a squadmate she would always appear in the synthesis ending even though she would had been shown dead minutes before. I doubt they had different ending cinematics so late in development, so those two scenes would coexist together. Did they take out that scene at the last minute because it would be too obvious for players that the ending wasn't real? Or...

[Wowky]

dsl08002 wrote...

prettz wrote...

dsl08002 wrote...

One thing that is very difficult to contradict the IT theory is shepards eyes when you are at the ending when chosing synthesis or controll.

because even by some possibility that it was graphics at that point: the eyes have speciall pattern and they glow. that is what i found a very strong case for IT

posted this earler but if you have not seen it, hears a upclose high rez of the eyes

holy cow this should settle it then

To play Devil's Advocate: Not necessarily. All the ending stuff may have ACTUALLY happened, and all the eye thing is implying is that Synthesis/Control are "wrong" choices because they result in you siding with the Reapers.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong (personally I LOVE Indoctrination Theory as a concept and would be stoked if it turned out to be the case), but just thought I'd point out the reverse argument and that the eye thing doesn't necessarily "settle" the argument.

[Sire Styx]

shteuyn wrote...

.

I've read that whether your squadmates are dead or not depends on your  EMS

[EpyonX3]

shteuyn wrote...

Hey! I'm new at this forum so I don't know if it has been mentioned before (I have read most of this thread but sadly did not get to analyze the previous legendary one) but in The Final Hours app one of the last segments is a comparison between some scenes that were deleted and how they were made differently in the final game. One of them is very interesting. The deleted scene shown is of your squadmates being hit by Harbinger's beam just like Shepard, which we know doesn't happen. But in the final scene equivalent Shepard is the only one to be shown getting hit by the beam like everyone knows, but when he wakes up his squadmates bodies are still lying on the ground nearby. Now, I may be crazy, but in the final game that I played there are no squadmates lying on the floor! Right? We don't know what happens to them. This means that this scene where you actually see they're bodies on the floor was supposed to be the final scene until very very very late in development, even after Geoff Keighley (the creator of the app) finished this making of. Which means they would be shown dead even though the final cinematic could show one of them exiting the Normandy at the jungle planet. I mean if we had EDI as a squadmate she would always appear in the synthesis ending even though she would had been shown dead minutes before. I doubt they had different ending cinematics so late in development, so those two scenes would coexist together. Did they take out that scene at the last minute because it would be too obvious for players that the ending wasn't real? Or...

The EDI thing should be impossible because in order to get Synthesis, you need high EMS. When you have high EMS, your squadmates don't die or at least show up dead on the floor. This then allows EDI to be on the Normandy.

[shteuyn]

Sire Styx wrote...

shteuyn wrote...

.

I've read that whether your squadmates are dead or not depends on your  EMS

Is the synthesis option available to low EMS players?

[balance5050]

shteuyn wrote...

Sire Styx wrote...

shteuyn wrote...

.

I've read that whether your squadmates are dead or not depends on your  EMS

Is the synthesis option available to low EMS players?

I think you need at least 3000 EMS

[nightcobra]

Sire Styx wrote...

shteuyn wrote...

.

I've read that whether your squadmates are dead or not depends on your  EMS

wouldn't that contradict with the shown endings? they do always show up in the normandy afterwards on la-la-land.

[D.Sharrah]

Macross wrote...

ivenoidea wrote...

I know this is not 100% on topic, but this is the only place that has people using their brains :/

Anyway, i just randomly stumbled upon this video called "Mass Effect 3: Hidden Trailer"

It shows the fleets coming to earth and fighting the reapers, however it also shows the "Stargazer" scene at the end.

There are some scenes in the fighting part that i don't think I've seen before, check it out yourselves:



The kicker? Look at the upload date.

edit: i seem to be unable to make the link clickable, sorry.

Interesting. Along with the Publishing date it's got way to much of Priortiy Earth in it to be anything but Bioware yet the lack of anything to distinguish it as being a trailer or offically bioware makes it very odd. I don't know what to make of it IT wise though. Maybe Bioware's just being weird for the sake of beign weird to screw with us?

Although, the trailer does have seriousily good music.

EDIT: Also, you're right, their are scenes in that that I don't remember seeing in the orignal battle.

Just watched this...the scene w/the Reaper landing on the ship before firing was awesome!  I hope that this is put back in the EC!

Edit:  This is the problem with thrying to catch up...you see something that you want to respond to...make a post...and then feel like an idiot when you learn more by continuing down the page a little further.  I have never done a low EMS playthough (and can't as I see that making my Shep just too stupid to gather the resources available to him) and that's why I had never seen that scene...and IMHO that scene is just too awesome for it to only be in the low EMS endings.

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 03 juin 2012 - 06:06 .

[Unschuld]

TSA_383 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hmm...very interesting indeed.  I can't imagine what it is that they'd be playtesting though (I'm assuming it's not the EC).

It could be the EC - everyone who signs up has to sign a NDA.

I don't think I got one of those, but if so I'd be so tempted...

Don't know if I could go through with it though, since I don't want to ruin any surprises.

[shteuyn]

[quote]shteuyn wrote...

[quote]Sire Styx wrote...

[quote]shteuyn wrote...

.[/quote]

I've read that whether your squadmates are dead or not depends on your  EMS

[/quote]

Is the synthesis option available to low EMS players?


Oh, then it's my bad for having to many war assets xD I never noticed that when I saw the details of all the endings. But then why did they deleted the scene were they get hit by the beam? Is it because the beam hitting Shepard signals that everything after that was the hallucination? I mean if the squadmates are dead, then they're dead....unless they only wanted to show their dead bodies after the beam hits Shepard because they're death is an illusion. I mean, if the endings are supposed to be interpretated at face value showing them getting hit by the beam before Shepard wouldn't change anything.

Modifié par shteuyn, 03 juin 2012 - 06:14 .

[Big G13]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big G13 wrote...
 I am not a prominent theorist here but I have been involved with this thread  since early in the first thread and your point about why indoctrinate instead of kill Shepard (via Silent Rogue) reminds me of another theory posed here. That being, that Major Coats is a Reaper agent. In the conversation we have with him in the London FOB Shepard says something like, "I'm just a soldier." To which Coats replies, "You may see yourself that way but to everyone here you are a hero, a symbol of hope." (or words to that effect) If Coats turns out to be a reaper agent then the answer to that question was given to us by the reapers themselves. And they agree with you.  Hope that makes sense. Long, long night at work:blink:

I think there are two versions of the Coates theory, arent there? One that states he is one of Shepard's hallucinations (there is in-game evidence to support this somewhat), and one that states he is a Reaper agent. I'm really not sure which, if either, I believe.

If I had to pick one, I might pick the hallucination idea. Mostly because we see him with a camera-highlighted warning sign by his head, similar to vent boy in Vancouver. 

The only way Coates can be a hallucination is if the hallucination starts before we meet him, since it is Anderson who introduces him and he features in radio chatter during subsequent missions. Having said that, there is something decidedly odd and untrustworthy about him either way. The warning sign could be a little hint that he is indoctrinated.

I do agree some of the things Coates says seem to have a subtle echo of reaper dialogue about them.

i don't think Coates is really all that important, i always thought of him as Bioware's way to put that marine that was shown in big ben during the reveal trailer into the game as they actually say that Coates was in Big Ben in the game.

I guess it depends on if I believe IT was planned from the beginning or not. If not then they put him in because the fans loved him in the reveal trailer. If it was then, as someone said in the first IT thread, " star of the ME3 reveal trailer. It doesn't get any more important than that." 

[Sire Styx]

Ah, sorry, I forgot synthesis needed high EMS. The other two don't, and at low EMS I'm sure your squadmates die in control/destroy. And I've read that there is a bug where dead squadmates show up at the end. Not sure if that's true or not now, as I read it months ago.

Anyway, I meant to post this (below) before but obviously I didn't, lol

Hello everyone
I've not been on in a while (for various reasons), and I'm glad to see this discussion is still going on! (albeit in a new topic). This topic is probably the main reason why I visit these forums
Anyway, I've had a quick read through the last few pages. I was just wondering what this is about "E3" or something? Do we think that something might be said with regards to Mass Effect at E3 (whether indoctrination/general game ending/multiplayer or whatever)?

Someone mentioned something about nanites/nanides or something also and I've just thought about something, which has probably been mentioned before. Shepard was rebuilt by Cerberus, but do we know that no reaper parts were added to him/her? I mean, if EDI was built using reaper programs or something, Could Shepard contain nanites/have been rebuilt by nanites? I mean, if s/he was essentially dead when found, and dragons teeth can reanimate corpses as husks (Which I'm pretty sure they can), could there be some connection? Not sure what it would mean for IT, but could be the source of indoctrination prehaps, if the Arrival DLC wasn't played.....

[Rankincountry]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Rankincountry wrote...

The only way Coates can be a hallucination is if the hallucination starts before we meet him, since it is Anderson who introduces him and he features in radio chatter during subsequent missions. Having said that, there is something decidedly odd and untrustworthy about him either way. The warning sign could be a little hint that he is indoctrinated.

I do agree some of the things Coates says seem to have a subtle echo of reaper dialogue about them.

i don't think Coates is really all that important, i always thought of him as Bioware's way to put that marine that was shown in big ben during the reveal trailer into the game as they actually say that Coates was in Big Ben in the game.

That's what I meant in my last post about a lot of IT evidence being circumstantial - your explanation is at least as likely as mine . And I hate to admit it, but lots of speculation has been quite fun the past few weeks. Curse you, Walters!

[ivenoidea]

Big G13 wrote...

POSTING A CORRECTION: I said it was Ivenoidea's post that pulled to the 'Coats as a Reaper agent side of the argument' but it was Boeloe's post back on page 424. But that was 18 hrs. ago and I'm still awake so, please, cut me some slack.

And there i was getting all excited because someone mentioned me by name 

Jk, i must have missed that post though, it's real interesting, thanks!

(For anyone that doesn't go back: It basicly sais that Shepard can't possibly dream up major Coats since he has never seen him before. That is assuming the first trailer was "indoctrination free")

[WillieStyle]

I personally love IT. In fact I assumed a weak version of IT in my first play through before I read any spoilers online. However, the fact that Synthesis and Control are only available options when the player has high EMS strongly suggests that IT wasn't Bioware's original idea. The EMS requirements seem to suggest that Bioware thinks Synthesis is the "good" ending.

[nightcobra]

WillieStyle wrote...

I personally love IT. In fact I assumed a weak version of IT in my first play through before I read any spoilers online. However, the fact that Synthesis and Control are only available options when the player has high EMS strongly suggests that IT wasn't Bioware's original idea. The EMS requirements seem to suggest that Bioware thinks Synthesis is the "good" ending.

if you saved the collector base in me2 and have low EMS, control is the only choice instead of destroy.

[paxxton]

Unschuld wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

Hmm...very interesting indeed.  I can't imagine what it is that they'd be playtesting though (I'm assuming it's not the EC).

It could be the EC - everyone who signs up has to sign a NDA.

I don't think I got one of those, but if so I'd be so tempted...

Don't know if I could go through with it though, since I don't want to ruin any surprises.

What are you talking about here?

[Rosewind]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've heard of the possibility of Coates being a reaper agent but nothing about him being a hallucination. Anyone willing to recap the evidence supporting that?

I'm not 100% knowledgable on the subject, but off the top of my head:

• No other characters aside from Shepard are seen directly acknowledging or conversing with Coates.
• Camera highlights a warning sign in the mako right next to Coates' head
• His character just seems to be too "off" to be real.
• There are several other elements (falling scraps of paper, bobbing camera, etc), to suggest that there are dream/hallucination elements creeping into the foreground of Shepard's consciousness in London.

I really think that's stretching it. Then we have to assume Anderson is a hallucination too, since he picks up where Coats leaves off in conversation during the shuttle pickup.

That and wouldn't Anderson and others wonder who the hell Shepard is talking to?

And to be fair, I've seen Garrus' head next to the caution sign in Sur'Kesh. Should I be careful with Garrus too? This is starting to become more like paranoia.

Agreeed it's starting seem abit like it,

[Ravereth]

WillieStyle wrote...

I personally love IT. In fact I assumed a weak version of IT in my first play through before I read any spoilers online. However, the fact that Synthesis and Control are only available options when the player has high EMS strongly suggests that IT wasn't Bioware's original idea. The EMS requirements seem to suggest that Bioware thinks Synthesis is the "good" ending.

Actually you need 2800 EMS for synthesis ending and 4000 EMS for destroy, ShepAlive ending... 4000EMS>2800EMS 

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've heard of the possibility of Coates being a reaper agent but nothing about him being a hallucination. Anyone willing to recap the evidence supporting that?

I'm not 100% knowledgable on the subject, but off the top of my head:

• No other characters aside from Shepard are seen directly acknowledging or conversing with Coates. 
  
  
  
  
• Camera highlights a warning sign in the mako right next to Coates' head
  
  
  
  
• His character just seems to be too "off" to be real. 
  
  
  
  
• There are several other elements (falling scraps of paper, bobbing camera, etc), to suggest that there are dream/hallucination elements creeping into the foreground of Shepard's consciousness in London.

I really think that's stretching it. Then we have to assume Anderson is a hallucination too, since he picks up where Coats leaves off in conversation during the shuttle pickup.

That and wouldn't Anderson and others wonder who the hell Shepard is talking to?

And to be fair, I've seen Garrus' head next to the caution sign in Sur'Kesh. Should I be careful with Garrus too? This is starting to become more like paranoia.

Agreeed it's starting seem abit like it,

BioWare's indoctrination attempt advances...
But seriously, London might have been a hallucination.

Modifié par paxxton, 03 juin 2012 - 06:31 .

[Ravereth]

Rosewind wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I've heard of the possibility of Coates being a reaper agent but nothing about him being a hallucination. Anyone willing to recap the evidence supporting that?

I'm not 100% knowledgable on the subject, but off the top of my head:

• No other characters aside from Shepard are seen directly acknowledging or conversing with Coates.
• Camera highlights a warning sign in the mako right next to Coates' head
• His character just seems to be too "off" to be real.
• There are several other elements (falling scraps of paper, bobbing camera, etc), to suggest that there are dream/hallucination elements creeping into the foreground of Shepard's consciousness in London.

I really think that's stretching it. Then we have to assume Anderson is a hallucination too, since he picks up where Coats leaves off in conversation during the shuttle pickup.

That and wouldn't Anderson and others wonder who the hell Shepard is talking to?

And to be fair, I've seen Garrus' head next to the caution sign in Sur'Kesh. Should I be careful with Garrus too? This is starting to become more like paranoia.

Agreeed it's starting seem abit like it,

Personally, I think that everything was a hallucination... Shepard definitely drinks too much