55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LOL. It's not a weekend today. And this thread seems sleepy. I guess everybody's prepping for the E3 conferences today.

I'm watching the new Tomb Raider trailer for the 20th time now (yes, I'm a fan)

I might shock you but for me the best part was The Angel of Darkness. It's a pity they didn't continue it.

... a fellow AoD fan.. never thought I'd see the day

yes it was amazing...  a bit too creepy for me though

better than that piece of sh*t Legend

I loved the atmosphere and the story and the graphics and the sound effects and the music. Controls were a bit annoying from time to time though. The whole game was such a leap forward since Chronicles. Good times!
The Sanitarium level was unforgettable, so frightening.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 juin 2012 - 01:22 .

[Earthborn_Shepard]

paxxton wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LOL. It's not a weekend today. And this thread seems sleepy. I guess everybody's prepping for the E3 conferences today.

I'm watching the new Tomb Raider trailer for the 20th time now (yes, I'm a fan)

I might shock you but for me the best part was The Angel of Darkness. It's a pity they didn't continue it.

... a fellow AoD fan.. never thought I'd see the day

yes it was amazing...  a bit too creepy for me though

better than that piece of sh*t Legend

I loved the atmosphere and the story and the graphics and the sound effects and the music. Controls were a bit annoying from time to time though. The whole game was such a leap forward since Chronicles. Good times!

indeed just realised I'm not part of the youngest gamer generation any longer I feel old...

[Rosewind]

Need to get back on topic boys.....

[paxxton]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LOL. It's not a weekend today. And this thread seems sleepy. I guess everybody's prepping for the E3 conferences today.

I'm watching the new Tomb Raider trailer for the 20th time now (yes, I'm a fan)

I might shock you but for me the best part was The Angel of Darkness. It's a pity they didn't continue it.

... a fellow AoD fan.. never thought I'd see the day

yes it was amazing...  a bit too creepy for me though

better than that piece of sh*t Legend

I loved the atmosphere and the story and the graphics and the sound effects and the music. Controls were a bit annoying from time to time though. The whole game was such a leap forward since Chronicles. Good times!

indeed just realised I'm not part of the youngest gamer generation any longer I feel old...

Well, you're not old if you don't feel old, so they say at least.

[Arian Dynas]

Rosewind wrote...

Need to get back on topic boys.....

And girl.

[Arian Dynas]

Anywho, gonna turn in, someone take watch for me;
http://social.biowar...399/14#12409342

Be polite!

[MegumiAzusa]

Arian Dynas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I wonder what ITers think the Catalyst actually is, since the one in the ending isn't real, and will it be revealed? Or what of Vendetta's comments, that the Reapers were not masters of their own cycles, but servants to something else greater? Will that be dropped for something else?

The Catalyst remains what it always was. The Citadel. And my opinion on the Reaper's beginnings and motives may be found in a link in my sig. If you wish to continue this discussion, come back when you have read it.

In my opinion it's the Reapers who altered the plans to incorporate the Citadel after the first finished version blew away one of theirs. (Derelict Reaper in ME2)

It's an interesting thought, but I still personally cleave to the theory that the Crucible was originally designed into the Citadel out of desperation, the Citadel being a massive Mass Relay, as well as extremely powerful, IMO the whole thing was designed to be a huge mass accelerator cannon.

You still have to remember that nobody knows how the Citadel is built. The Crucible was adapted to the Citadel being considered a black box.

I argue that the Crucible was designed off the Citadel, not the other way around.

But Vendetta says that the Citadel was incorporated into the Crucible design at a later time, now from the beginning. 

 

Crucible designers attempt to create a massive cannon, find they don't have the Relay knowledge, find they lack the power, think of how to turn a relay into a weapon, do so with their own relay causing the Klendagon Impact. Reapers seize the plans, one of two things happen, the plans are modified by the reapers so they use the citadel, which the reapers seize at the beginning of every cycle, or a later cycle decides that it would be a good idea to use the biggest possible relay for their cannon.

No, they didn't use their relay. If they'd used the Relay TIM wouldn't have said:
"An Alliance science team recently determined that the "Great Rift" on the planet Klendagon is actually an impact crater from a mass accelerator weapon. A very old mass accelerator. I sent a team to find either the weapon or its target. They found both."
The wording doesn't fit if it would have been a relay.
This in my opinion leads to the Reapers planting plans of a device that is actually a trap, to have a "failsave" a cycle can pour their resources into. The Reapers are described as quite thorough, and they knew about the device for some cycles. It would be illogical to assume they gave the plans a slip without reason as they were aware of them and had indoctrinated agents present. Also there were Reaper voices when Shepard was "sensing" the beacon/Vendetta, which in my opinion was therefor Reaper induced. Additionally if you have trusted the cloned queen they again had indoctrinated agents and therefor knew where it was built but didn't attack, and let's be serious: the Alliance couldn't just have moved it while they were still constructing.
One way or another it's a Reaper trap.

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

Need to get back on topic boys.....

Yes, ma'am!
[link to a horror movie]

[Turbo_J]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Need to get back on topic boys.....

And girl.

There's more than one of us in this thread.

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I wonder what ITers think the Catalyst actually is, since the one in the ending isn't real, and will it be revealed? Or what of Vendetta's comments, that the Reapers were not masters of their own cycles, but servants to something else greater? Will that be dropped for something else?

The Catalyst remains what it always was. The Citadel. And my opinion on the Reaper's beginnings and motives may be found in a link in my sig. If you wish to continue this discussion, come back when you have read it.

In my opinion it's the Reapers who altered the plans to incorporate the Citadel after the first finished version blew away one of theirs. (Derelict Reaper in ME2)

It's an interesting thought, but I still personally cleave to the theory that the Crucible was originally designed into the Citadel out of desperation, the Citadel being a massive Mass Relay, as well as extremely powerful, IMO the whole thing was designed to be a huge mass accelerator cannon.

You still have to remember that nobody knows how the Citadel is built. The Crucible was adapted to the Citadel being considered a black box.

I argue that the Crucible was designed off the Citadel, not the other way around.

But Vendetta says that the Citadel was incorporated into the Crucible design at a later time, now from the beginning. 

 

Crucible designers attempt to create a massive cannon, find they don't have the Relay knowledge, find they lack the power, think of how to turn a relay into a weapon, do so with their own relay causing the Klendagon Impact. Reapers seize the plans, one of two things happen, the plans are modified by the reapers so they use the citadel, which the reapers seize at the beginning of every cycle, or a later cycle decides that it would be a good idea to use the biggest possible relay for their cannon.

No, they didn't use their relay. If they'd used the Relay TIM wouldn't have said:
"An Alliance science team recently determined that the "Great Rift" on the planet Klendagon is actually an impact crater from a mass accelerator weapon. A very old mass accelerator. I sent a team to find either the weapon or its target. They found both."
The wording doesn't fit if it would have been a relay.
This in my opinion leads to the Reapers planting plans of a device that is actually a trap, to have a "failsave" a cycle can pour their resources into. The Reapers are described as quite thorough, and they knew about the device for some cycles. It would be illogical to assume they gave the plans a slip without reason as they were aware of them and had indoctrinated agents present. Also there were Reaper voices when Shepard was "sensing" the beacon/Vendetta, which in my opinion was therefor Reaper induced. Additionally if you have trusted the cloned queen they again had indoctrinated agents and therefor knew where it was built but didn't attack, and let's be serious: the Alliance couldn't just have moved it while they were still constructing.
One way or another it's a Reaper trap.

Reaper voices in the temple on Thessia?  Weren't those just sounds of sensing the beacon?

The Cucible can serve another purpose. If organics can build it it proves to the Reapers that they're no longer sufficiently advanced and have to change the method of annihilating the Galaxy. They are algorithmic machines and completeing the Crucible is a kind of border condition for them.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 juin 2012 - 01:45 .

[Turbo_J]

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

[quote]paxxton wrote...

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

[quote]MegumiAzusa wrote...

[quote]Arian Dynas wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

Snip

[/quote]
Snip
[/quote]
Snip

[/quote]
Snip [/quote] 

Crucible designers attempt to create a massive cannon, find they don't have the Relay knowledge, find they lack the power, think of how to turn a relay into a weapon, do so with their own relay causing the Klendagon Impact. Reapers seize the plans, one of two things happen, the plans are modified by the reapers so they use the citadel, which the reapers seize at the beginning of every cycle, or a later cycle decides that it would be a good idea to use the biggest possible relay for their cannon.[/quote]
No, they didn't use their relay. If they'd used the Relay TIM wouldn't have said:
"An Alliance science team recently determined that the "Great Rift" on the planet Klendagon is actually an impact crater from a mass accelerator weapon. A very old mass accelerator. I sent a team to find either the weapon or its target. They found both."
The wording doesn't fit if it would have been a relay.
This in my opinion leads to the Reapers planting plans of a device that is actually a trap, to have a "failsave" a cycle can pour their resources into. The Reapers are described as quite thorough, and they knew about the device for some cycles. It would be illogical to assume they gave the plans a slip without reason as they were aware of them and had indoctrinated agents present. Also there were Reaper voices when Shepard was "sensing" the beacon/Vendetta, which in my opinion was therefor Reaper induced. Additionally if you have trusted the cloned queen they again had indoctrinated agents and therefor knew where it was built but didn't attack, and let's be serious: the Alliance couldn't just have moved it while they were still constructing.
One way or another it's a Reaper trap.[/quote]

Yeah, it's more telling early in the game that the Reapers had to know about the Crucible and even knew it's location, if Shep/player fell for the fake Rachni queen trap.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 04 juin 2012 - 01:47 .

[Rosewind]

Turbo_J wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Need to get back on topic boys.....

And girl.

There's more than one of us in this thread.

Yes yes there is lol

[GethPrimeMKII]

If the crucible is a trap, which i firmly believe it is, how will the combined fleet win?

[paxxton]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

If the crucible is a trap, which i firmly believe it is, how will the combined fleet win?

They won't.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 juin 2012 - 01:52 .

[Turbo_J]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

If the crucible is a trap, which i firmly believe it is, how will the combined fleet win?

Conventionally.

I understand why people don't want to believe this, because; through persuasion, the Reapers have been pounding it into organics/ and the players heads that it's not possible, but it is possible. Shep keeps killing them conventionally... though I'm not sure the one on Tuchanka qualifies, as Giant thresher maws aren't really considered a conventional weapon... are they?

Modifié par Turbo_J, 04 juin 2012 - 01:51 .

[paxxton]

Turbo_J wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

If the crucible is a trap, which i firmly believe it is, how will the combined fleet win?

Conventionally.

I understand why people don't want to believe this, because; through persuasion, the Reapers have been pounding it into organics/ and the players heads that it's not possible, but it is possible. Shep keeps killing them conventionally... though I'm not sure the one on Tuchanka qualifies, as Giant thresher maws aren't really considered a conventional weapon... are they?

Destroyers aren't the real Reapers. Capital ships are the ones.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 juin 2012 - 01:53 .

[Turbo_J]

One thing to add is the tactical advantage the mixed fleet has. They are working together, but they don't fight the same. Once these differences are put to use in a tactical way that we can see through writing, dialog and perhaps graphical narration/cut scenes, then we may see the tide turn. Remember this little bit of info regarding Javik's cycle and their stupid common war doctrine. Their cycle was stagnant due to conformity. We don't have that problem.

[paxxton]

Turbo_J wrote...

One thing to add is the tactical advantage the mixed fleet has. They are working together, but they don't fight the same. Once these differences are put to use in a tactical way that we can see through writing, dialog and perhaps graphical narration/cut scenes, then we may see the tide turn. Remember this little bit of info regarding Javik's cycle and their stupid common war doctrine. Their cycle was stagnant due to conformity. We don't have that problem.

If the Reapers are AIs or something even more advanced, they can adapt in a matter of nanoseconds by analyzing enemy's tactics and then broadcasting the info to other units.

Modifié par paxxton, 04 juin 2012 - 02:00 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Conventional victory is possible, but very unlikely and costly. Anyway Im more interested in what manner the crucible will backfire, and how will the fleet recover from it.

[Turbo_J]

Also, forgot.

Sovereign may have taken a fleet in ME1, but we have Thanix cannons on almost all ships now. That has to count for something. The Normandy is one small ship and it cut the Collector dreadnought in half with two shots.

The full frontal assault at Earth in the cut scene was a little stupid, considering Hackett himself said it would not work, but that was just one cut scene. Reaper ships were falling as fast as Allied ships given the numbers. We didn't see any flanking, but the Normandy was bound for earth, so the focus left the space battle.

Also, I think the reaper code fragment and maybe some other EMS was causing targeting problems for the Reapers. I noticed in one of my play throughs with 7K+ EMS that more Reaper shots missed than hit Allied ships. They were having targeting issues.

[Starbuck8]

Hi all, new here, and I'm definitely in the IT camp.

Just finished the game a week ago and wanted to experience the ending spoiler-free. The only thing I knew is that many people felt the ending sucked lol. At first, the ending just seemed kinda lame to me, and I did get the slight feeling that something wasn't right, though I didn't think too much about it at first. And the lack of resolution to everything! So depressing! I know most people point to other things that tipped them off that something "wasn't right" about the endings, but for me it was the inside of the Citadel arms (um, why does it look like business as normal in the wards? the citedel has just been captured by the reapers...) and I also noticed the panels (huh, those look just like those panels on the Shadow Broker ship...).

So finally after finished the game I started doing some research on the endings and the theories behind them. I've read parabolee's blog watched acavyos' vid, and read a lot of this thread (definitely not enough time to read that old thread ) and I must say I'm pretty conviced that BW has had this planned all along. So hopefully I can contribute new/interesting ideas to the thread to keep us going until EC finally comes out. And I hope you don't mind if I play devil's advocate every once in a while, I can't help it as a critical thinker!

So there's one thing in ME3 that sticks out to me regarding indoc that I haven't seen really discussed in depth. I know there's been a lot of speculation and debate about when Shepard's indoctrination started. A lot of times we point out how many times Shepard has come into contact with reaper tech, especially Object Rho. Well, I was thinking about the news article in ME3 about Rana Thanoptis (for those of us that have kept her alive since ME1). She's indoctrinated! This actually surprised me a bit, as she seemed ok when we met her on Virmire, leading us to believe she hadn't been indoctrinated yet, as well as in Okeer's lab. I feel like they put this in the game as a clue, to remind us that hey! we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces since ME1! So since ME1 we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces many times:
ME1: Virmire, while Soverign was there (canon)
ME1: Citadel Tower, very close to Soverign (canon)
ME2: Derelict Reaper (canon)
ME2: Aequitas (optional) (lol how this planet is highlighted in ME3)
ME2: Collector Base baby reaper (canon)
ME2: Object Rho (canon, but for some reason still debated)
ME3: Earth's reaper invasion  (canon)
ME3: Cerberus Base (canon)
(and I'm sure others I'm forgetting right now)

I know we all believe Shepard's indoc has been going on over the course of the whole series, but I still see a lot of people bring it up and debate it, so I figured I'd add my 2 cents and bring up the Rana Thanoptis article as a possible clue. And it seems that many who aren't that familiar with IT have a poor understanding of the concept of indoctrination, so I'll just say that no, I don't believe Shepard's been indoctrinated since ME1. You can be exposed to indoctrinating forces without becoming indoctrinated. I think that you have to actually make a choice, consciously or subconsciously to agree with reaper "logic", and that is the point when you've become indoctrinated. It's just taken so long and so much effort on the reapers' part to bring Shepard to that choice (at the ending) because of her/his astounding willpower.

Well thanks for being an awesome and friendly thread, I normally don't get involved in forums because people are usually not so welcoming and nice. Hope to have more to add in the future!

Edit: oops almost forgot! added ME2 collector base to the list.

Modifié par Starbuck8, 04 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[Starbuck8]

Lol hope my post doesn't get lost in the "conventional means" debate!

[Dwailing]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Hi all, new here, and I'm definitely in the IT camp.

Just finished the game a week ago and wanted to experience the ending spoiler-free. The only thing I knew is that many people felt the ending sucked lol. At first, the ending just seemed kinda lame to me, and I did get the slight feeling that something wasn't right, though I didn't think too much about it at first. And the lack of resolution to everything! So depressing! I know most people point to other things that tipped them off that something "wasn't right" about the endings, but for me it was the inside of the Citadel arms (um, why does it look like business as normal in the wards? the citedel has just been captured by the reapers...) and I also noticed the panels (huh, those look just like those panels on the Shadow Broker ship...).

So finally after finished the game I started doing some research on the endings and the theories behind them. I've read parabolee's blog watched acavyos' vid, and read a lot of this thread (definitely not enough time to read that old thread ) and I must say I'm pretty conviced that BW has had this planned all along. So hopefully I can contribute new/interesting ideas to the thread to keep us going until EC finally comes out. And I hope you don't mind if I play devil's advocate every once in a while, I can't help it as a critical thinker!

So there's one thing in ME3 that sticks out to me regarding indoc that I haven't seen really discussed in depth. I know there's been a lot of speculation and debate about when Shepard's indoctrination started. A lot of times we point out how many times Shepard has come into contact with reaper tech, especially Object Rho. Well, I was thinking about the news article in ME3 about Rana Thanoptis (for those of us that have kept her alive since ME1). She's indoctrinated! This actually surprised me a bit, as she seemed ok when we met her on Virmire, leading us to believe she hadn't been indoctrinated yet, as well as in Okeer's lab. I feel like they put this in the game as a clue, to remind us that hey! we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces since ME1! So since ME1 we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces many times:
ME1: Virmire, while Soverign was there (canon)
ME1: Citadel Tower, very close to Soverign (canon)
ME2: Derelict Reaper (canon)
ME2: Aequitas (optional) (lol how this planet is highlighted in ME3)
ME2: Object Rho (canon, but for some reason still debated)
ME3: Earth's reaper invasion  (canon)
ME3: Cerberus Base (canon)
(and I'm sure others I'm forgetting right now)

I know we all believe Shepard's indoc has been going on over the course of the whole series, but I still see a lot of people bring it up and debate it, so I figured I'd add my 2 cents and bring up the Rana Thanoptis article as a possible clue. And it seems that many who aren't that familiar with IT have a poor understanding of the concept of indoctrination, so I'll just say that no, I don't believe Shepard's been indoctrinated since ME1. You can be exposed to indoctrinating forces without becoming indoctrinated. I think that you have to actually make a choice, consciously or subconsciously to agree with reaper "logic", and that is the point when you've become indoctrinated. It's just taken so long and so much effort on the reapers' part to bring Shepard to that choice (at the ending) because of her/his astounding willpower.

Well thanks for being an awesome and friendly thread, I normally don't get involved in forums because people are usually not so welcoming and nice. Hope to have more to add in the future!

Welcome to the group!  And you're right about Rana.  That's something we didn't think about, but it would make sense.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Turbo_J wrote...

Also, forgot.

Sovereign may have taken a fleet in ME1, but we have Thanix cannons on almost all ships now. That has to count for something. The Normandy is one small ship and it cut the Collector dreadnought in half with two shots.

The full frontal assault at Earth in the cut scene was a little stupid, considering Hackett himself said it would not work, but that was just one cut scene. Reaper ships were falling as fast as Allied ships given the numbers. We didn't see any flanking, but the Normandy was bound for earth, so the focus left the space battle.

Also, I think the reaper code fragment and maybe some other EMS was causing targeting problems for the Reapers. I noticed in one of my play throughs with 7K+ EMS that more Reaper shots missed than hit Allied ships. They were having targeting issues.

Thanix cannons count for something, but considering the 3 to 1 ratio on dreadnoughts / Sovereign class Reapers is from the war itself such factors is probably allready considered. In fact they go out of the way to say that no Dreadnought ahs survived a direct hit froma a Sovereign class reapers main gun.

The frontal assult on earth is required, it is purely diversion attack meant to punch a hole through to the Citadel and occupy the Reaper forces long enough to deploy the Crucible. Considering the Reapers are focused around the Citadel, you dont really have many other options than frontal assualt.

As for what we are shown, that is simply small part of the battle. At high EMS off course the game is gonna reward the palyer with positive shots of the battle, but events like what you see in the low EMS Space battle is also happening everywhere.

And no they were not having targeting issues, in fact the mere idea that the Reaper code fragment could cause targeting issues for them is ludicrous since they amde the code and it is installed in every single Reaper. The code merely mimic a Reapers signal allowing a ship to pass as one of them as long as they dont get too close. But the moment they realize you are not one of them any advantage disappears.

What you see is simply the standard of a long range Space battle. Just like the Allied fleet fires shots of which many miss, so is the Reapers guns not 100% precise at that range.

Hacket even says that the fleet is not for winning the battle, but merely for delivering the Crucible. The bigger teh fleet, the better the chance. Defeating the Reapers conventionally, even at max EMS is never even considered or brought up in the game because it is simply not a possibility.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 04 juin 2012 - 02:15 .

[Fingertrip]

paxxton wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LOL. It's not a weekend today. And this thread seems sleepy. I guess everybody's prepping for the E3 conferences today.

I'm watching the new Tomb Raider trailer for the 20th time now (yes, I'm a fan)

Didn't they just release one?

This one is a prequel to the whole series.

No, it's not a prequel, it's a reboot of the franchise.