LOL. It's not a weekend today. And this thread seems sleepy. I guess everybody's prepping for the E3 conferences today.
I'm watching the new Tomb Raider trailer for the 20th time now (yes, I'm a fan)
Didn't they just release one?
This one is a prequel to the whole series.
No, it's not a prequel, it's a reboot of the franchise.
yeah.. like, the 4. or 5. one...
I have a feeling that the game will disappoint. It's too much like Far Cry 3 (jungle setting) and there's only room for a single Far Cry franchise.
I think the new trailer looks pretty neat, but I'm afraid it will turn out too survival-horror-like
It wouldn't be so bad as a survival horror actually. Just that the trailer doesn't feel epic. A bunch of people stuck on an island in the middle of nowhere with a crazy Russian guy. It's a bit cliche.
Sovereign may have taken a fleet in ME1, but we have Thanix cannons on almost all ships now. That has to count for something. The Normandy is one small ship and it cut the Collector dreadnought in half with two shots.
The full frontal assault at Earth in the cut scene was a little stupid, considering Hackett himself said it would not work, but that was just one cut scene. Reaper ships were falling as fast as Allied ships given the numbers. We didn't see any flanking, but the Normandy was bound for earth, so the focus left the space battle.
Also, I think the reaper code fragment and maybe some other EMS was causing targeting problems for the Reapers. I noticed in one of my play throughs with 7K+ EMS that more Reaper shots missed than hit Allied ships. They were having targeting issues.
Thanix cannons count for something, but considering the 3 to 1 ratio on dreadnoughts / Sovereign class Reapers is from the war itself such factors is probably allready considered. In fact they go out of the way to say that no Dreadnought ahs survived a direct hit froma a Sovereign class reapers main gun.
The frontal assult on earth is required, it is purely diversion attack meant to punch a hole through to the Citadel and occupy the Reaper forces long enough to deploy the Crucible. Considering the Reapers are focused around the Citadel, you dont really have many other options than frontal assualt.
As for what we are shown, that is simply small part of the battle. At high EMS off course the game is gonna reward the palyer with positive shots of the battle, but events like what you see in the low EMS Space battle is also happening everywhere.
And no they were not having targeting issues, in fact the mere idea that the Reaper code fragment could cause targeting issues for them is ludicrous since they amde the code and it is installed in every single Reaper. The code merely mimic a Reapers signal allowing a ship to pass as one of them as long as they dont get too close. But the moment they realize you are not one of them any advantage disappears.
What you see is simply the standard of a long range Space battle. Just like the Allied fleet fires shots of which many miss, so is the Reapers guns not 100% precise at that range.
Hacket even says that the fleet is not for winning the battle, but merely for delivering the Crucible. The bigger teh fleet, the better the chance. Defeating the Reapers conventionally, even at max EMS is never even considered or brought up in the game because it is simply not a possibility.
The reaper code fragment is not Reaper IFF code, it was put to use by the Asari (and likely disseminated to the fleet) to predict Reaper ship movements. Go back to the citadel and listen to what the strategist says after you give her the code.
I'm not saying it was done, but there is a possibility that Geth jamming technology combine with that code could be used to develop effective defense against Reaper targeting systems. It's more of a supposition, but within the confines of available war assets from the game.
I will never be swayed about conventional means not working. It may take the Alliance forces finding some way to double the output if the Thanix cannons, or some other tactics yet to be revealed, but I strongly believe that 'can't beat them conventionally has been put out there by the Reapers to prevent organics from looking for a conventional tactic that will work... so they waste time on say... something like a Crucible... that nobody in the galaxy knows anything about, except it's big, seems powerful, and is remarkably easy to build... Yeah, lets do that instead of finding a way to doubling the power output of dreadnaught weapons.
Just for the record, I'm not trying to convince you or trying to change your mind. You fight your war the way you see fit. Once the indoctrination process sets in, it's pretty much over anyway... for either of us.
There's one particular Reaper in the end battle who seems to really suck at aiming. It fires it's laser at an Alliance ship twice, and misses both times! Lasers travel at the speed of light (obviously), so that makes it hard enough to miss. Add onto that that Reaper brains have crazy amounts of processing power, and that the laser isn't like a handheld weapon, it's an extention of their body...
There's one particular Reaper in the end battle who seems to really suck at aiming. It fires it's laser at an Alliance ship twice, and misses both times! Lasers travel at the speed of light (obviously), so that makes it hard enough to miss. Add onto that that Reaper brains have crazy amounts of processing power, and that the laser isn't like a handheld weapon, it's an extention of their body...
I dunno, it's just wierd
LOL. You can't defeat the Reapers as they are in every way more advanced than organics. BioWare just had to incorporate leaps of faith or suspension of disbelief, whatever you call it. In RL, I'm afraid nothing would be left of organics after the Reaper invasion.
There's one particular Reaper in the end battle who seems to really suck at aiming. It fires it's laser at an Alliance ship twice, and misses both times! Lasers travel at the speed of light (obviously), so that makes it hard enough to miss. Add onto that that Reaper brains have crazy amounts of processing power, and that the laser isn't like a handheld weapon, it's an extention of their body...
I dunno, it's just wierd
Didn't a codex entry in ME2 say that Sovereign's main gun actually was a mass accelerator cannon, contrary to popular belief?
Oh God, I just realized something in ME2. In the Citadel News Network report on the attack on Freedom's Progress, it says that the Hanar have maintained that the attacks are the wrath of the Protheans for the defiling of the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime. Well, this is a nice bit of foreshadowing in hindsight since the Collectors are modified Protheans.
Starbuck8 wrote... Well, I was thinking about the news article in ME3 about Rana Thanoptis (for those of us that have kept her alive since ME1). She's indoctrinated!
Oh and might I add that I just realized this article is even titled ANN Alert: New Article on "Indoctrination"
Lol to me this is such an obvious (ahem, possible) hint put in for us!
OT: ehh you guys weren't kidding, this forum software really is outdated, huh?
There's one particular Reaper in the end battle who seems to really suck at aiming. It fires it's laser at an Alliance ship twice, and misses both times! Lasers travel at the speed of light (obviously), so that makes it hard enough to miss. Add onto that that Reaper brains have crazy amounts of processing power, and that the laser isn't like a handheld weapon, it's an extention of their body...
I dunno, it's just wierd
Didn't a codex entry in ME2 say that Sovereign's main gun actually was a mass accelerator cannon, contrary to popular belief?
It's a variant of a mass accelerator that fires a beam of molten metal instead of a bullet (Or, you know, the 22nd century equivalent.). It's the same principle that the Thanix Cannon is based on, since it was reverse engineered from Sovereign's gun.
Have we disscused why the reapers (or is it Harbinger specifically?) would want to indoctrinate Shepard instead of just kill him?
Yeah! Shep's a symbol of galactic unity to all the races, not to mention an incredibly bad ass super soldier. But mostly because Shep's a symbol and the most well known human (who happen to be the Reaper's fave harvested species in this cycle)
Hi all, new here, and I'm definitely in the IT camp.
Just finished the game a week ago and wanted to experience the ending spoiler-free. The only thing I knew is that many people felt the ending sucked lol. At first, the ending just seemed kinda lame to me, and I did get the slight feeling that something wasn't right, though I didn't think too much about it at first. And the lack of resolution to everything! So depressing! I know most people point to other things that tipped them off that something "wasn't right" about the endings, but for me it was the inside of the Citadel arms (um, why does it look like business as normal in the wards? the citedel has just been captured by the reapers...) and I also noticed the panels (huh, those look just like those panels on the Shadow Broker ship...).
So finally after finished the game I started doing some research on the endings and the theories behind them. I've read parabolee's blog watched acavyos' vid, and read a lot of this thread (definitely not enough time to read that old thread ) and I must say I'm pretty conviced that BW has had this planned all along. So hopefully I can contribute new/interesting ideas to the thread to keep us going until EC finally comes out. And I hope you don't mind if I play devil's advocate every once in a while, I can't help it as a critical thinker!
So there's one thing in ME3 that sticks out to me regarding indoc that I haven't seen really discussed in depth. I know there's been a lot of speculation and debate about when Shepard's indoctrination started. A lot of times we point out how many times Shepard has come into contact with reaper tech, especially Object Rho. Well, I was thinking about the news article in ME3 about Rana Thanoptis (for those of us that have kept her alive since ME1). She's indoctrinated! This actually surprised me a bit, as she seemed ok when we met her on Virmire, leading us to believe she hadn't been indoctrinated yet, as well as in Okeer's lab. I feel like they put this in the game as a clue, to remind us that hey! we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces since ME1! So since ME1 we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces many times: ME1: Virmire, while Soverign was there (canon) ME1: Citadel Tower, very close to Soverign (canon) ME2: Derelict Reaper (canon) ME2: Aequitas (optional) (lol how this planet is highlighted in ME3) ME2: Object Rho (canon, but for some reason still debated) ME3: Earth's reaper invasion (canon) ME3: Cerberus Base (canon) (and I'm sure others I'm forgetting right now)
I know we all believe Shepard's indoc has been going on over the course of the whole series, but I still see a lot of people bring it up and debate it, so I figured I'd add my 2 cents and bring up the Rana Thanoptis article as a possible clue. And it seems that many who aren't that familiar with IT have a poor understanding of the concept of indoctrination, so I'll just say that no, I don't believe Shepard's been indoctrinated since ME1. You can be exposed to indoctrinating forces without becoming indoctrinated. I think that you have to actually make a choice, consciously or subconsciously to agree with reaper "logic", and that is the point when you've become indoctrinated. It's just taken so long and so much effort on the reapers' part to bring Shepard to that choice (at the ending) because of her/his astounding willpower.
Well thanks for being an awesome and friendly thread, I normally don't get involved in forums because people are usually not so welcoming and nice. Hope to have more to add in the future!
Welcome to the group! And you're right about Rana. That's something we didn't think about, but it would make sense.
There is way more exposure, including the Reaper baby at the end of ME2 and Reaper tech inside Shep. Regardless, the extensive exposure is there. We know it's there, and well established that Shep is feeling this. Not only that, but acting as a bit of an antenna to the weak willed James Vega.
As for Rana, I've known about that since my first play through; day of release, because I let her live. Shiala is also indoctrinated, but the connection she has with the colonists that were affected by the Thorian keep her from slipping into Reaper control. Zaeed's words haunted me regarding Rana... I knew I should have put a bullet in her. So it did bite me in the ass. It also made me more convinced than I already was that Shep would likely be a target of indoctrination, if it wasn't already happening. Hell, I didn't trust anyone. Not even Liara after she forgot how to think for herself on Mars. On my second auto dialog with James, I got the - 'You hear that hum? Is that just me?' My heart sank... and I figured Shep (Reaper tech implants) would end up inadvertently turning James.
As for your interpretation, you are pretty much spot on. Indoctrination is a process. One the Reapers/Harbinger seems to be pushing on to Shepard with an unprecedented amount of care due to the symbol of hope they have become to the galaxy. The results of that indoctrination attempt depends on the choice Shep makes in the end via the player.
Turbo_J wrote... There is way more exposure, including the Reaper baby at the end of ME2 and Reaper tech inside Shep. Regardless, the extensive exposure is there.
Ah I knew i was leaving something out. I'll edit that into my list lol
And I know what you mean about Liara. Something seemed off about her the whole game to me too... Though I'm not ready to commit to the idea that any of the squaddies are experiencing indoc, I won't dismiss that it's a real possibility!
Have we disscused why the reapers (or is it Harbinger specifically?) would want to indoctrinate Shepard instead of just kill him?
The Reapers consider Shepard genetically valuable to their as-yet obscure plans.
Um... Is that a guess or do you have something to back that up? Wouldn't it make more sense that the reapers want to lower morale or something to the opposing forces by having Shepard, who is the galaxy's best hope against the reapers, change sides after all he did and stood for?
Hi all, new here, and I'm definitely in the IT camp.
Just finished the game a week ago and wanted to experience the ending spoiler-free. The only thing I knew is that many people felt the ending sucked lol. At first, the ending just seemed kinda lame to me, and I did get the slight feeling that something wasn't right, though I didn't think too much about it at first. And the lack of resolution to everything! So depressing! I know most people point to other things that tipped them off that something "wasn't right" about the endings, but for me it was the inside of the Citadel arms (um, why does it look like business as normal in the wards? the citedel has just been captured by the reapers...) and I also noticed the panels (huh, those look just like those panels on the Shadow Broker ship...).
So finally after finished the game I started doing some research on the endings and the theories behind them. I've read parabolee's blog watched acavyos' vid, and read a lot of this thread (definitely not enough time to read that old thread ) and I must say I'm pretty conviced that BW has had this planned all along. So hopefully I can contribute new/interesting ideas to the thread to keep us going until EC finally comes out. And I hope you don't mind if I play devil's advocate every once in a while, I can't help it as a critical thinker!
So there's one thing in ME3 that sticks out to me regarding indoc that I haven't seen really discussed in depth. I know there's been a lot of speculation and debate about when Shepard's indoctrination started. A lot of times we point out how many times Shepard has come into contact with reaper tech, especially Object Rho. Well, I was thinking about the news article in ME3 about Rana Thanoptis (for those of us that have kept her alive since ME1). She's indoctrinated! This actually surprised me a bit, as she seemed ok when we met her on Virmire, leading us to believe she hadn't been indoctrinated yet, as well as in Okeer's lab. I feel like they put this in the game as a clue, to remind us that hey! we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces since ME1! So since ME1 we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces many times: ME1: Virmire, while Soverign was there (canon) ME1: Citadel Tower, very close to Soverign (canon) ME2: Derelict Reaper (canon) ME2: Aequitas (optional) (lol how this planet is highlighted in ME3) ME2: Object Rho (canon, but for some reason still debated) ME3: Earth's reaper invasion (canon) ME3: Cerberus Base (canon) (and I'm sure others I'm forgetting right now)
I know we all believe Shepard's indoc has been going on over the course of the whole series, but I still see a lot of people bring it up and debate it, so I figured I'd add my 2 cents and bring up the Rana Thanoptis article as a possible clue. And it seems that many who aren't that familiar with IT have a poor understanding of the concept of indoctrination, so I'll just say that no, I don't believe Shepard's been indoctrinated since ME1. You can be exposed to indoctrinating forces without becoming indoctrinated. I think that you have to actually make a choice, consciously or subconsciously to agree with reaper "logic", and that is the point when you've become indoctrinated. It's just taken so long and so much effort on the reapers' part to bring Shepard to that choice (at the ending) because of her/his astounding willpower.
Well thanks for being an awesome and friendly thread, I normally don't get involved in forums because people are usually not so welcoming and nice. Hope to have more to add in the future!
Welcome to the group! And you're right about Rana. That's something we didn't think about, but it would make sense.
There is way more exposure, including the Reaper baby at the end of ME2 and Reaper tech inside Shep. *Snip*
Haven't we discussed this about Shepard and reaper tech implants, because I swear it was proven that there was no evidence to say that the implants were reaper tech or not.
You know what is interesting about Reaper indoctrination. Reaper artifacts are merely needed to start the indoctrination. To inject foreign ideas. Then as time passes it becomes a feedback loop. The more you think about it, the more you accept it. It's like a mental bug crawling in your mind. Shepard didn't have to be constantly in the presence of Reaper tech to get fully indoctrinated.
Sovereign may have taken a fleet in ME1, but we have Thanix cannons on almost all ships now. That has to count for something. The Normandy is one small ship and it cut the Collector dreadnought in half with two shots.
The full frontal assault at Earth in the cut scene was a little stupid, considering Hackett himself said it would not work, but that was just one cut scene. Reaper ships were falling as fast as Allied ships given the numbers. We didn't see any flanking, but the Normandy was bound for earth, so the focus left the space battle.
Also, I think the reaper code fragment and maybe some other EMS was causing targeting problems for the Reapers. I noticed in one of my play throughs with 7K+ EMS that more Reaper shots missed than hit Allied ships. They were having targeting issues.
Thanix cannons count for something, but considering the 3 to 1 ratio on dreadnoughts / Sovereign class Reapers is from the war itself such factors is probably allready considered. In fact they go out of the way to say that no Dreadnought ahs survived a direct hit froma a Sovereign class reapers main gun.
The frontal assult on earth is required, it is purely diversion attack meant to punch a hole through to the Citadel and occupy the Reaper forces long enough to deploy the Crucible. Considering the Reapers are focused around the Citadel, you dont really have many other options than frontal assualt.
As for what we are shown, that is simply small part of the battle. At high EMS off course the game is gonna reward the palyer with positive shots of the battle, but events like what you see in the low EMS Space battle is also happening everywhere.
And no they were not having targeting issues, in fact the mere idea that the Reaper code fragment could cause targeting issues for them is ludicrous since they amde the code and it is installed in every single Reaper. The code merely mimic a Reapers signal allowing a ship to pass as one of them as long as they dont get too close. But the moment they realize you are not one of them any advantage disappears.
What you see is simply the standard of a long range Space battle. Just like the Allied fleet fires shots of which many miss, so is the Reapers guns not 100% precise at that range.
Hacket even says that the fleet is not for winning the battle, but merely for delivering the Crucible. The bigger teh fleet, the better the chance. Defeating the Reapers conventionally, even at max EMS is never even considered or brought up in the game because it is simply not a possibility.
The reaper code fragment is not Reaper IFF code, it was put to use by the Asari (and likely disseminated to the fleet) to predict Reaper ship movements. Go back to the citadel and listen to what the strategist says after you give her the code.
I'm not saying it was done, but there is a possibility that Geth jamming technology combine with that code could be used to develop effective defense against Reaper targeting systems. It's more of a supposition, but within the confines of available war assets from the game.
I will never be swayed about conventional means not working. It may take the Alliance forces finding some way to double the output if the Thanix cannons, or some other tactics yet to be revealed, but I strongly believe that 'can't beat them conventionally has been put out there by the Reapers to prevent organics from looking for a conventional tactic that will work... so they waste time on say... something like a Crucible... that nobody in the galaxy knows anything about, except it's big, seems powerful, and is remarkably easy to build... Yeah, lets do that instead of finding a way to doubling the power output of dreadnaught weapons.
Just for the record, I'm not trying to convince you or trying to change your mind. You fight your war the way you see fit. Once the indoctrination process sets in, it's pretty much over anyway... for either of us.
There is a huge difference in using a bbit of code to learn a bit of how your enmy thinks and thus predicting his overall movements and jamming his targeting systems. Such an improvement I think would be mentioned in war asset or in game...and the Reapers would probably adapt quickly once they realized it.
As for the Geth jamming technology...that is for communication. You would be looking more at something along the lines neural flashbang the Quarians invneted against the Geth. Shepard even asks if that can be used against the Reapers to which Tali says it cant.
In fact the entire naural flashbang thing is interesting. It took the quarians, who are very good with tech and invneted the Geth, 300 years to make a viable electronic weapon against the Geth, but the Reapers made it obsolute with a single software upgrade. Now imagine having to develop something that works on the Reapers and how long that would take.
If they could significantly increase the Thanix cannons power (with their current power sources, as it is clear Reapers use far more powerful versions, probbaly due to increased output from their energy source) I think they would have done so in the two years that passed since the creation of the weapon and the Reapers invasion.
Also to just fire a serius shot at the winning at Earth idea, here is a link to the final cinematic space battle:
Go to around 4:30 where the Allaince fighters going into formation gives a beatiful shot of the Earth with the clear outline of alot the Sovereign class Reapers in front of it.
I did a rough count of the numbers and reached just around 100 Sovereign class reapers, but the image lacks some pat out to the left and I notice during the camera movement that some Reapers seem to be hidden against the darkness of the galaxy and the darker parts of Earth, futher increasing the number.
Roughly idd say there is at least 125-150 Sovereign class reapers at Earth, at least. And the alliance 200 Dreadnougts was a best case scenario based upon pre-war number, the actual number of dreadnoughts in the fleet is probably far lower.
But even at best case we are not even near the 3 to 1 ratio required.
Off course you may take this as you see fit, but almost eevrything seen and heard in Mass Effect, even Hacket who is the leader of the fleet, tells us conventional victory is not possible. And I dont see how it should be done either, not with the numbers the Reapers are pulling.
Hi all, new here, and I'm definitely in the IT camp.
Just finished the game a week ago and wanted to experience the ending spoiler-free. The only thing I knew is that many people felt the ending sucked lol. At first, the ending just seemed kinda lame to me, and I did get the slight feeling that something wasn't right, though I didn't think too much about it at first. And the lack of resolution to everything! So depressing! I know most people point to other things that tipped them off that something "wasn't right" about the endings, but for me it was the inside of the Citadel arms (um, why does it look like business as normal in the wards? the citedel has just been captured by the reapers...) and I also noticed the panels (huh, those look just like those panels on the Shadow Broker ship...).
So finally after finished the game I started doing some research on the endings and the theories behind them. I've read parabolee's blog watched acavyos' vid, and read a lot of this thread (definitely not enough time to read that old thread ) and I must say I'm pretty conviced that BW has had this planned all along. So hopefully I can contribute new/interesting ideas to the thread to keep us going until EC finally comes out. And I hope you don't mind if I play devil's advocate every once in a while, I can't help it as a critical thinker!
So there's one thing in ME3 that sticks out to me regarding indoc that I haven't seen really discussed in depth. I know there's been a lot of speculation and debate about when Shepard's indoctrination started. A lot of times we point out how many times Shepard has come into contact with reaper tech, especially Object Rho. Well, I was thinking about the news article in ME3 about Rana Thanoptis (for those of us that have kept her alive since ME1). She's indoctrinated! This actually surprised me a bit, as she seemed ok when we met her on Virmire, leading us to believe she hadn't been indoctrinated yet, as well as in Okeer's lab. I feel like they put this in the game as a clue, to remind us that hey! we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces since ME1! So since ME1 we've been exposed to indoctrinating forces many times: ME1: Virmire, while Soverign was there (canon) ME1: Citadel Tower, very close to Soverign (canon) ME2: Derelict Reaper (canon) ME2: Aequitas (optional) (lol how this planet is highlighted in ME3) ME2: Object Rho (canon, but for some reason still debated) ME3: Earth's reaper invasion (canon) ME3: Cerberus Base (canon) (and I'm sure others I'm forgetting right now)
I know we all believe Shepard's indoc has been going on over the course of the whole series, but I still see a lot of people bring it up and debate it, so I figured I'd add my 2 cents and bring up the Rana Thanoptis article as a possible clue. And it seems that many who aren't that familiar with IT have a poor understanding of the concept of indoctrination, so I'll just say that no, I don't believe Shepard's been indoctrinated since ME1. You can be exposed to indoctrinating forces without becoming indoctrinated. I think that you have to actually make a choice, consciously or subconsciously to agree with reaper "logic", and that is the point when you've become indoctrinated. It's just taken so long and so much effort on the reapers' part to bring Shepard to that choice (at the ending) because of her/his astounding willpower.
Well thanks for being an awesome and friendly thread, I normally don't get involved in forums because people are usually not so welcoming and nice. Hope to have more to add in the future!
Welcome to the group! And you're right about Rana. That's something we didn't think about, but it would make sense.
There is way more exposure, including the Reaper baby at the end of ME2 and Reaper tech inside Shep. *Snip*
Haven't we discussed this about Shepard and reaper tech implants, because I swear it was proven that there was no evidence to say that the implants were reaper tech or not.
I doubt that Shepard has Reaper Tech in him. It's a possiblity, but I personally doubt it. They make a big deal out of how TIM wanted Shepard back EXACTLY as he was before. Like Miranda said, "The same mind, the same morals, the same personality."
Have we disscused why the reapers (or is it Harbinger specifically?) would want to indoctrinate Shepard instead of just kill him?
The Reapers consider Shepard genetically valuable to their as-yet obscure plans.
Um... Is that a guess or do you have something to back that up? Wouldn't it make more sense that the reapers want to lower morale or something to the opposing forces by having Shepard, who is the galaxy's best hope against the reapers, change sides after all he did and stood for?
Harbinger's remarks about Shepard's genetic malleability and potential and the fact they consider advanced Organics as vermin only worth ascension.
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