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Legion109 wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The gun thing sure as **** is delibarely implemented and not a glitch. I don't think indoctrination theory can get any more crystal clear then it already is.
You gotta hand it to Bioware. The ending is indeed artistic.
The Mona Lisa is artistic the ending to ME3 as it stands was a b*tch slap to any long term ME fans.
- I am the Legion of 109 and I am the disturber of the disturbed -
MegumiAzusa wrote...
You've got way over a second, more than enough time to see it, especially if you know what you are looking for.DJBare wrote...
While the physical switch goes unnoticed, it is possible to see that Shepard has a different weapon during the explosion, but you have to have a quick eye, flycam not needed, this image did not require flaycam, but it happens so fast you need to record it and pause.pirate1802 wrote...
A part of me agrees with you. I'd have considered that gun-swapping evidence clinching if the swapping was visible without using flycam.
Rifneno wrote...
Recommend Sennheiser next time BTW. Companies that specialize in sound equipment tend to make better speakers & headphones than companies that only dabble in it. They also wouldn't make the baffling decision to make headphone pads hexagon shaped just so they can fit a Star Wars theme. I can't imagine it's equally comfortable to ergonomic ones and I know it can't sound as good as ones designed to take sound reverberation into account.
Not trying to sound negative or rag on you, just offering some hopefully helpful advice since you also seem to take your headphones seriously.
Modifié par TSA_383, 16 mai 2012 - 02:20 .
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
@Rifneno
Thanks for the suggestion, mostly bought these cuz I needed news ones/I'm in love with SWTOR/I figured ME3 would sound awesome in surround. Despite teh hexagonal shape they are quite comfortable, the sound quality and mic are very clear as well. I'll keep Sennheiser in mind next time I'm up for upgrading.
Destructorlio wrote...
How do the literalists EVER get past the fade demons in Dragon Age? They all present as a friend or a small child with a double-voice, and they all tell a bull**** story while trying to get you to succumb to some kind of illusion. If you take everything you see at face value, you would never get past these bits, and you'd be furious that Bioware 'tricked' you so deviously- or that they 'screwed up the script so badly'.
MegumiAzusa wrote...
You've got way over a second, more than enough time to see it, especially if you know what you are looking for.DJBare wrote...
While the physical switch goes unnoticed, it is possible to see that Shepard has a different weapon during the explosion, but you have to have a quick eye, flycam not needed, this image did not require flaycam, but it happens so fast you need to record it and pause.pirate1802 wrote...
A part of me agrees with you. I'd have considered that gun-swapping evidence clinching if the swapping was visible without using flycam.
:blink::blink::blink:
prettz wrote...
I made the Mystery of the gun video to confirm if true or not that the gun did change, I used flycame so their would be no doubt of it's authenticity. now one thing I messed up on is when showing the ingame camera I had a FXAA Tool running and that made the yellow more bright with a lot more bloom in it it also makes dark...darker
Modifié par pirate1802, 16 mai 2012 - 02:46 .
Xavendithas wrote...
I'm up to page 24 on the new thread, but in the interest of going to bed soonish what are the latest bits of info you guys are discussing?
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
I'm up to page 24 on the new thread, but in the interest of going to bed soonish what are the latest bits of info you guys are discussing?
For the past couple pages: the Carnifex changing into a Predator handgun as soon as you shoot the Destroy tube in the cutscene. Images above and on a previous page, very odd thing for sure.
pirate1802 wrote...
MegumiAzusa wrote...
You've got way over a second, more than enough time to see it, especially if you know what you are looking for.DJBare wrote...
While the physical switch goes unnoticed, it is possible to see that Shepard has a different weapon during the explosion, but you have to have a quick eye, flycam not needed, this image did not require flaycam, but it happens so fast you need to record it and pause.pirate1802 wrote...
A part of me agrees with you. I'd have considered that gun-swapping evidence clinching if the swapping was visible without using flycam.
*snip*
WTF So let be get this straight; the carnifax changes into a predator in the "perfect" destroy ending, but remains unchanged in the bad destroy and breath-less destroy scene?
Mother of galaxy...
Might work for femshep/thane, depends on the half life of that hallucinogenDestructorlio wrote...
Anti-ITers have accused us with coming up with this theory out of whole cloth, saying that the clues are so vague that they could mean anything.
If this is true, and this is all invention on our part, you should be able to find a similar amount of evidence for ANY theory that you propose, since all of the evidence is supposedly just us interpreting various bugs and scripting errors to suit our cause (even though they all seem to point towards the same conclusion!)
So as a thought experiment, let's propose a new theory- everything that happens to Shepard after he goes through the Omega 4 relay in ME2 is a hallucination. If IT is supposedly just rank interpretation, then you should be able to find loads of 'evidence' in ME2 that supports this theory.
Xavendithas wrote...
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
I'm up to page 24 on the new thread, but in the interest of going to bed soonish what are the latest bits of info you guys are discussing?
For the past couple pages: the Carnifex changing into a Predator handgun as soon as you shoot the Destroy tube in the cutscene. Images above and on a previous page, very odd thing for sure.
It's just on the destroy ending? He isn't dropping a Predator pistol in the control or synthesis endings??
Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 16 mai 2012 - 03:12 .
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
I'm up to page 24 on the new thread, but in the interest of going to bed soonish what are the latest bits of info you guys are discussing?
For the past couple pages: the Carnifex changing into a Predator handgun as soon as you shoot the Destroy tube in the cutscene. Images above and on a previous page, very odd thing for sure.
It's just on the destroy ending? He isn't dropping a Predator pistol in the control or synthesis endings??
It's a Carnifex dropping in Control I can confirm that personally. Synthesis I didn't pay enough attention to the gun dropping, will have to look for it on youtube again. But for now looks like it's just in the Destroy ending.
Xavendithas wrote...
I'm up to page 24 on the new thread, but in the interest of going to bed soonish what are the latest bits of info you guys are discussing?
Big Bad wrote...
I'm actually more interested in the fact that it apparently only occurs specifically in the "breath" destroy ending. Would love it if somebody could confirm this.
Big Bad wrote...
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
gunslinger_ruiz wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
I'm up to page 24 on the new thread, but in the interest of going to bed soonish what are the latest bits of info you guys are discussing?
For the past couple pages: the Carnifex changing into a Predator handgun as soon as you shoot the Destroy tube in the cutscene. Images above and on a previous page, very odd thing for sure.
It's just on the destroy ending? He isn't dropping a Predator pistol in the control or synthesis endings??
It's a Carnifex dropping in Control I can confirm that personally. Synthesis I didn't pay enough attention to the gun dropping, will have to look for it on youtube again. But for now looks like it's just in the Destroy ending.
I'm actually more interested in the fact that it apparently only occurs specifically in the "breath" destroy ending. Would love it if somebody could confirm this.
Great collection of evidence. I know it's not 'evidence' per se, but is it worth adding a section about Bioware's history of 'twist endings'? This sort of sets up a 'pattern' of Bioware doing things *like* IT, but not as audacious.
A list of the games that form this pattern from the old IT forum is:Baldur's Gate: you turn out to be the son of the Lord of Murder, and the major villian is your half brother, and in Baldur's Gate two, the character of Imoen turns out to be another Bhaalspawn, your half sister, and the villian of Irenicus turns out to be a banished elf from Suldanesselar.
KotoR: Major twist at the end of the game where you turn out to be Revan.
Jade Empire: Your master, who guided you through the game, turns around and kills you at the end.
Neverwinter Nights: As is covered, this game practically does an IT ending when a mindflayer convinces you the game is over and that you 'won', even though it's all an illusion.
Dragon Age: As already posted, Dragon Age has a similar 'ending' where you succumb to an illusion. But when you think about it, Dragon Age repeatedly confronts you with an alternate reality (the Fade) featuring a small child (a demon's preferred non-scary form) with a strange, double-sided voice which presents you with an illusion and a choice. If you choose wrongly, you succumb to the illusion- if you choose correctly, you awaken from that illusion.
So Bioware doesn't just have a history of faking out their audience to deliver a twist, it is a feature in practically every one of their game franchises.
Which brings us to Mass Effect. They've been seeding the concept of Indoctrination since ME1. We know from last hours of ME3 app that they planned to indoctrinate Shepard, and that they wanted us to 'get inside Shepard's head'. But how to show that? Just repeat the same 'trick' that was in NWN and DA? Of course they could have just 'done another fakeout', but they've already done it. So how do you do the same thing again, without repeating yourself?
You double-down on the concept. You do exactly what they did do- you convince the player that the illusion is reality, and you don't reveal it- a whole new level in twist endings. The EC was planned all along as the 'wake up' sequence, where the twist is revealed- after, as Bioware have stated, everyone has had a chance to play the game and get sucked in.
Now, a feature of this forum is that every now and then someone who hasn't read all the evidence comes in and says: "Nah, if IT was true, they would have put more clues in."
Now think of the greatest twists in movie history: The Sixth Sense. Fight Club. The Matrix (a movie Bioware specifically site as inspiration for the end of ME3). Were their clues about what the twist was going to be before the twist occured? Most definitely. Did these clues blatantly spell out what the twist was going to be? Of course not! Because they can't, because if they did, the twist would not be a twist, it would be a natural progression. All of the clues only make sense looking back, once you know the reveal. That's the genius, and the fun, of the surprise ending.
IT is the inevitable conclusion of this chain of logic. Yes maybe we don't have all the details right, but I think we have enough of the details correct to justify our beliefs. I think saying bioware just wrote a lazy ending is lazy thinking.
I know it is a thin thread, but it does demonstrate prior intent, and that Bioware is certainly 'capable' of this sort of thinking, because they have done it before.
Modifié par Destructorlio, 16 mai 2012 - 03:35 .
UrgentArchengel wrote...
Big Bad wrote...
I'm actually more interested in the fact that it apparently only occurs specifically in the "breath" destroy ending. Would love it if somebody could confirm this.
If this is true. It is pure undeniable PROOF. Not a glitch, not a bug, not random evidence provided by those in denial, but actual PROOF. I hope it's true.
Destructorlio wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
I'm up to page 24 on the new thread, but in the interest of going to bed soonish what are the latest bits of info you guys are discussing?
We still seem to be stuck in the gun discussion. I am a devoted ITer, but this one hasn't got me that excited, because Shepard's gun does wacky stuff across all three games- I'm constantly holding a pistol in cinematics when I am, in fact, only armed with a rifle. This doesn't seem to strike me as IT evidence.
Jessica Merizan trolled us a bit today by tweeting: "
Not thrilled about how unavoidable some plot instances ended up being in Fallout 3"
SERIOUSLY. In the middle of an epic sh!tst0rm about how ME3 only has three largely identical endings, you tweet that. Not cool.
Apart from that, not much new under the sun. I still think the 'motherlode' of IT proof lies in the 'whispers' in the dreams and in the final conversation with TIM. We need to be breaking these apart and analyzing them closely.
Modifié par Xavendithas, 16 mai 2012 - 03:40 .
Xavendithas wrote...
I wouldn't take a word from Jessica Merizan seriously. I say ignore the BioWare PR machine entirely and just focus on deconstructing the final hour or so of the game until the EC is released.
Modifié par blooregard, 16 mai 2012 - 03:32 .
Dwailing wrote...
Boradam wrote...
a stupid as-- waldstr18 wrote...
im gone a few days and you guys start seeing reflections of trees on the floor?
Just in case anybody still doubts the tree reflections actually existing, this was taken from a flycam video of the ending.
You can view it yourself here in case you're wanting to see the video.
Well, it doesn't get much clearer than this. Also, this was my face when I saw that:
BatmanTurian wrote...
hoodaticus wrote...
We need to work it in to IT that Kai Leng is also a hallucination.
I'm pretty sure he's not. If we do that we'll have totally gone overboard. We might as well go full crazy and say Shepard got mindscrewed on Eden Prime in ME 1 and turned into a husk and just lived out the last few games in his head if we do that.
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