55528 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

Unschuld wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...
I don't think it's an Easter Egg (that would be rude of BioWare to make fun of the player in this way). The Stargazer scene is more so because it's after the credits.

Why would it be making fun of the player?

Because it would be a sort of meaningless cliffhanger, a tease that leads nowhere.

On top of the Stargazer scene, which is fairly meaningless

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've just got an idea. We don't know what is Shepard's state of mind after the Breath Scene. We can't be sure whether the Destroy option is the best or not.

We can only assume that it's the best since it's the one that leads to us knowing that he's alive.  Although, I'm starting to think that the breath scene might just be an easter egg, like the Legendary Planet at the end of Halo 3 if you beat it on legendary.  It happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if your EMS is high enough.  That would be a nice work around so that Bioware can maintain that you really CAN get the best ending even without playing MP.

I don't think it's an Easter Egg (that would be rude of BioWare to make fun of the player in this way). The Stargazer scene is more so because it's after the credits.

Why would it be making fun of the player?

Because players want happy (or at least reasonable) endings, not to see their character burn. If the breath scene was fake, it would mean that BioWare was laughing at players who just lost their character. Something like that.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 juin 2012 - 06:20 .

[BleedingUranium]

Guys, could someone make a video that shows what the reality of the ending is if IT is true? Hmm, that sounded weird, umm, could someone make a video of the beam run, then as soon as Shep gets knocked out by the beam, cut to the breath scene? For reference, if people don't get it.

[ZerebusPrime]

If the breathing scene were to happen after Synthesis or Control, both of which involve Shepard's disintegration, then obviously the whole ending sequence as a hallucination idea would be rendered fact. Just saying.

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've just got an idea. We don't know what is Shepard's state of mind after the Breath Scene. We can't be sure whether the Destroy option is the best or not.

We can only assume that it's the best since it's the one that leads to us knowing that he's alive.  Although, I'm starting to think that the breath scene might just be an easter egg, like the Legendary Planet at the end of Halo 3 if you beat it on legendary.  It happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if your EMS is high enough.  That would be a nice work around so that Bioware can maintain that you really CAN get the best ending even without playing MP.

I don't think it's an Easter Egg (that would be rude of BioWare to make fun of the player in this way). The Stargazer scene is more so because it's after the credits.

Why would it be making fun of the player?

Because players want happy (or at least reasonable) endings, not to see their character burn. If the breath scene was fake, it would mean that BioWare was laughing at players who just lost their character. Something like that.

An easter egg does not have to be fake.  I refer you back to the Halo 3 comparison.  The final scene with the Legendary Planet was an easter egg, but it is the setting for Halo 4.  Or think about the easter eggs in Batman Arkham City.  There are TONS of easter eggs in Batman Arkham City, almost all of which are probably going to have some significance in whatever the next game is.

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've just got an idea. We don't know what is Shepard's state of mind after the Breath Scene. We can't be sure whether the Destroy option is the best or not.

We can only assume that it's the best since it's the one that leads to us knowing that he's alive.  Although, I'm starting to think that the breath scene might just be an easter egg, like the Legendary Planet at the end of Halo 3 if you beat it on legendary.  It happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if your EMS is high enough.  That would be a nice work around so that Bioware can maintain that you really CAN get the best ending even without playing MP.

I don't think it's an Easter Egg (that would be rude of BioWare to make fun of the player in this way). The Stargazer scene is more so because it's after the credits.

Why would it be making fun of the player?

Because players want happy (or at least reasonable) endings, not to see their character burn. If the breath scene was fake, it would mean that BioWare was laughing at players who just lost their character. Something like that.

An easter egg does not have to be fake.  I refer you back to the Halo 3 comparison.  The final scene with the Legendary Planet was an easter egg, but it is the setting for Halo 4.  Or think about the easter eggs in Batman Arkham City.  There are TONS of easter eggs in Batman Arkham City, almost all of which are probably going to have some significance in whatever the next game is.

I get it. I thought you meant that the breath scene was meaningless (not even pointing to a continuation), being there for no reason, just to show something.

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've just got an idea. We don't know what is Shepard's state of mind after the Breath Scene. We can't be sure whether the Destroy option is the best or not.

We can only assume that it's the best since it's the one that leads to us knowing that he's alive.  Although, I'm starting to think that the breath scene might just be an easter egg, like the Legendary Planet at the end of Halo 3 if you beat it on legendary.  It happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if your EMS is high enough.  That would be a nice work around so that Bioware can maintain that you really CAN get the best ending even without playing MP.

I don't think it's an Easter Egg (that would be rude of BioWare to make fun of the player in this way). The Stargazer scene is more so because it's after the credits.

Why would it be making fun of the player?

Because players want happy (or at least reasonable) endings, not to see their character burn. If the breath scene was fake, it would mean that BioWare was laughing at players who just lost their character. Something like that.

An easter egg does not have to be fake.  I refer you back to the Halo 3 comparison.  The final scene with the Legendary Planet was an easter egg, but it is the setting for Halo 4.  Or think about the easter eggs in Batman Arkham City.  There are TONS of easter eggs in Batman Arkham City, almost all of which are probably going to have some significance in whatever the next game is.

I get it. I thought you meant that the breath scene was meaningless (not even pointing to a continuation), being there for no reason, just to show something.

I understand why you could think that.  Many easter eggs are just little, funny, meaningless additions to a game (Look at Halo, it has plenty of those, too.  That's one of the many reasons I love it. ).  

[HellishFiend]

Anytime something has a purpose other than just to make the player say "neat", it is not an easter egg.

Thats why the cow level got nerfed in Diablo 2. It was meant to be an Easter Egg, but someone goofed and made the drops too good, so it was instead being used as a farming level.

I dont believe the breath scene qualifies as an Easter Egg.

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

I've just got an idea. We don't know what is Shepard's state of mind after the Breath Scene. We can't be sure whether the Destroy option is the best or not.

We can only assume that it's the best since it's the one that leads to us knowing that he's alive.  Although, I'm starting to think that the breath scene might just be an easter egg, like the Legendary Planet at the end of Halo 3 if you beat it on legendary.  It happens no matter what, it's just that you only SEE it happen if your EMS is high enough.  That would be a nice work around so that Bioware can maintain that you really CAN get the best ending even without playing MP.

I don't think it's an Easter Egg (that would be rude of BioWare to make fun of the player in this way). The Stargazer scene is more so because it's after the credits.

Why would it be making fun of the player?

Because players want happy (or at least reasonable) endings, not to see their character burn. If the breath scene was fake, it would mean that BioWare was laughing at players who just lost their character. Something like that.

An easter egg does not have to be fake.  I refer you back to the Halo 3 comparison.  The final scene with the Legendary Planet was an easter egg, but it is the setting for Halo 4.  Or think about the easter eggs in Batman Arkham City.  There are TONS of easter eggs in Batman Arkham City, almost all of which are probably going to have some significance in whatever the next game is.

I get it. I thought you meant that the breath scene was meaningless (not even pointing to a continuation), being there for no reason, just to show something.

I understand why you could think that.  Many easter eggs are just little, funny, meaningless additions to a game (Look at Halo, it has plenty of those, too.  That's one of the many reasons I love it. ).  

Microsoft abandoned PC players with Halo 3.  But 1 and 2 are among my favorite games.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 juin 2012 - 06:39 .

[Unschuld]

HellishFiend wrote...

In my opinion, the breath scene is simply an extra clue given to the players that have high EMS.

Plus, Bioware did say you will be able to get the "best ending" without multiplayer, so it stands to reason that even if you dont get the breath scene, you will be able to obtain the ideal outcome from the EC or whatever follow up content there may be.

Here's the thing I see with that "best ending" statement. There is no absolute "best", because that is subjective from player to player. I liken it to a classic car performance forum that I frequent. New people often come there and create threads asking everyone questions like "what is the best  engine for the '73 Z?" or "what is the best wheel/suspension/drivetrain combo to get?". These threads are usually locked on sight and thrown into the tool shed. There is no "best". Each component serves a "best" option depending on how the car is built and what the car is built for. A car built for tight cornering and rapid accelleration would not be the best for someone who only cares about top speed. A car with stiff suspension won't be the best for someone who values a comfortable ride. A V8 with the sound of a muscle car would not be the best for someone who prefers the silky smooth sophistication of an inline 6.

Likewise, someone who thinks that Shepard making the ultimate sacrifice in the end fits their narrative is the best won't consider the ending where Shepard lives as "the best". Someone who thinks control is the only option has their "best" ending. All three of these endings are unlockable with single player only. Shepard breathing at the end of one is something extra for those who played the most amount of content the game had to offer, or used Bioware's phone games/apps. It's a reward, if you will, for showing that you're invested in the story. Does this mean that Shepard dies if you're in the "almost-but-not-quite-enough" EMS area? I don't think so, but that's not for me to say. I think it's just a cliffhanger for those invested that implies that more is to come, not necessarily that it's the only way for Shepard to live.

It's why I roll my eyes at every poster complaining that Bioware "lied" when they said the "best" ending would be available without multiplayer.

[Unschuld]

HellishFiend wrote...

Thats why the cow level got nerfed in Diablo 2. It was meant to be an Easter Egg, but someone goofed and made the drops too good, so it was instead being used as a farming level.

There is no cow level.

[Unschuld]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Guys, could someone make a video that shows what the reality of the ending is if IT is true? Hmm, that sounded weird, umm, could someone make a video of the beam run, then as soon as Shep gets knocked out by the beam, cut to the breath scene? For reference, if people don't get it.

What would this prove?

[paxxton]

Unschuld wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Guys, could someone make a video that shows what the reality of the ending is if IT is true? Hmm, that sounded weird, umm, could someone make a video of the beam run, then as soon as Shep gets knocked out by the beam, cut to the breath scene? For reference, if people don't get it.

What would this prove?

That's a weird idea. What happens between those scenes is real too, just happening as chemical flow in Shepard's brain.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 juin 2012 - 06:41 .

[BleedingUranium]

Unschuld wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Guys, could someone make a video that shows what the reality of the ending is if IT is true? Hmm, that sounded weird, umm, could someone make a video of the beam run, then as soon as Shep gets knocked out by the beam, cut to the breath scene? For reference, if people don't get it.

What would this prove?

It wouldn't prove anything, it would just be something to show all the people that are like "but IT means there is no ending"

[dreamgazer]

Unschuld wrote...

It's why I roll my eyes at every poster complaining that Bioware "lied" when they said the "best" ending would be available without multiplayer.

The unfortunate fact is this: the breath scene is a crucial clue/suggestion---to the trustworthiness of the catalyst, to where Shepard's body really is, to the existence of a story arc post-choice. And offline players can only get that clue externally, through the forums or YouTube.

[/devil's advocate]

[HellishFiend]

dreamgazer wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

It's why I roll my eyes at every poster complaining that Bioware "lied" when they said the "best" ending would be available without multiplayer.

The unfortunate fact is this: the breath scene is a crucial clue/suggestion---to the trustworthiness of the catalyst, to where Shepard's body really is, to the existence of a story arc post-choice. And offline players can only get that clue externally, through the forums or YouTube.

[/devil's advocate]

So? Bioware said nothing about every clue being obtainable strictly through single player.  What's wrong with that, exactly? Its a 20 second scene.

And as people are so apt to point out, it hardly constitutes an actual element of the ending. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 05 juin 2012 - 06:50 .

[BleedingUranium]

dreamgazer wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

It's why I roll my eyes at every poster complaining that Bioware "lied" when they said the "best" ending would be available without multiplayer.

The unfortunate fact is this: the breath scene is a crucial clue/suggestion---to the trustworthiness of the catalyst, to where Shepard's body really is, to the existence of a story arc post-choice. And offline players can only get that clue externally, through the forums or YouTube.

[/devil's advocate]

True, but there will most likely be at least as much DLC as ME2, so...

[Rain_JDS]

So, hi. A lurker coming out . I've been following this thread now
since it started. I couldn't follow the first one because it had been so big
when I actually started to think a bit more about the endings. I like IT
although I'm not 100% into it. Just had the impression that the endings felt
surreal the first time I finished the game. After a while I started to try to
find more in them and came to IT.

Now I don't know about all of the things already discussed but I found some things
in the endings and maybe you already have talked about them. I'd like to know
what you thought about it and how it would fit -if at all- into IT.



In all three endings, when we see those soldiers running forward, we can see
fires burning throughout the city. In destroy those fires still burn but the
wave of control and synthesis actually has the ability to put out those fires?:huh:Question is why and -if taken at
face value- how is that possible?



And what I just saw right now was that the destroy version of this scene is
blurry almost the whole time; the other two are not like that. Or maybe that's
just me :pinched:No seriously. Is it always like
that? I only have high EMS endings so I wouldn't know about the
others and I don't know if maybe I just screwed something up.



Another thing is the birds. Destroy is the only ending where there are birds at
the end on the planet the Normandy crashed. In dreams birds are a symbol of
freedom, the spirit and inspiration. So in that regard it would fit nicely in IT.
But what do you guys think?

Oh yeah, btw. Good work for finding all the evidence you did. Most of the time I saw those things but it never registered to me that there could be more behind them. So yeah. Good work there

Modifié par Rain_JDS, 05 juin 2012 - 06:52 .

[Unschuld]

dreamgazer wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

It's why I roll my eyes at every poster complaining that Bioware "lied" when they said the "best" ending would be available without multiplayer.

The unfortunate fact is this: the breath scene is a crucial clue/suggestion---to the trustworthiness of the catalyst, to where Shepard's body really is, to the existence of a story arc post-choice. And offline players can only get that clue externally, through the forums or YouTube.

[/devil's advocate]

To be honest, since it can be accessed in that method I don't think it matters, and I think Bioware knows this. Its like if you work hard at your job and you know you're doing a good job and you're working your way up the ranks because of your efforts, do you really need your boss to come in every day to personally physically  pat you on the back and say "good job."  ?

[HellishFiend]

Rain_JDS wrote...

Oh yeah, btw. Good work for finding all the evidence you did. Most of the time I saw those things but it never registered to me that there could be more behind them. So yeah. Good work there

Thanks, I enjoy hearing from lurkers. :happy: I wish more of you would chime in from time to time! 

I'll have to review the endings again with your thoughts in mind to come up with answers to your questions. But I can already say off the top of my head that I agree that if the birds are only present in Destroy (I was not aware of this), that it can be taken as a clue. Even if it's not symbolic, it makes no sense in face-value to think that the control and Synthesis waves would eliminate wildlife. 

[dreamgazer]

HellishFiend wrote...

So? Bioware said nothing about every clue being obtainable strictly through single player.  What's wrong with that, exactly? Its a 20 second scene.

And as people are so apt to point out, it hardly constitutes an actual element of the ending. 

I agree and disagree. To me, the breath scene is the top spinning in Inception.  It changes your perception of what you've seen, even if it doesn't physically impact the content preceding it. 

It's a major suggestive component that changes one's outlook on the game's events, and people wh play offline are currently not able to have their perception altered. 

Yes, you can still get the "best" data-driven ending in single-player, but you're lacking a pretty important jigsaw piece to complete the picture.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 05 juin 2012 - 06:59 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Rain_JDS wrote...


So, hi. A lurker coming out . I've been following this thread now
since it started. I couldn't follow the first one because it had been so big
when I actually started to think a bit more about the endings. I like IT
although I'm not 100% into it. Just had the impression that the endings felt
surreal the first time I finished the game. After a while I started to try to
find more in them and came to IT.

Now I don't know about all of the things already discussed but I found some things
in the endings and maybe you already have talked about them. I'd like to know
what you thought about it and how it would fit -if at all- into IT.



In all three endings, when we see those soldiers running forward, we can see
fires burning throughout the city. In destroy those fires still burn but the
wave of control and synthesis actually has the ability to put out those fires?:huh:Question is why and -if taken at
face value- how is that possible?



And what I just saw right now was that the destroy version of this scene is
blurry almost the whole time; the other two are not like that. Or maybe that's
just me :pinched:No seriously. Is it always like
that? I only have high EMS endings so I wouldn't know about the
others and I don't know if maybe I just screwed something up.



Another thing is the birds. Destroy is the only ending where there are birds at
the end on the planet the Normandy crashed. In dreams birds are a symbol of
freedom, the spirit and inspiration. So in that regard it would fit nicely in IT.
But what do you guys think?

Oh yeah, btw. Good work for finding all the evidence you did. Most of the time I saw those things but it never registered to me that there could be more behind them. So yeah. Good work there

Bad writting? Joking aside you make some interesting observations. I'd like to hear a literalist explain electro-magnetic waves putting out a fire.

[Unschuld]

Rain_JDS wrote...
Another thing is the birds. Destroy is the only ending where there are birds at
the end on the planet the Normandy crashed. In dreams birds are a symbol of
freedom, the spirit and inspiration. So in that regard it would fit nicely in IT.
But what do you guys think?

I think you're awesome for bringing that question to light. I'll have to confirm it, but that would be something significant if true.

[HellishFiend]

 Just noticed something... Is it just me, or does Starbinger look almost corporeal at a certain point in the Control ending?

[dreamgazer]

Unschuld wrote...

To be honest, since it can be accessed in that method I don't think it matters, and I think Bioware knows this. Its like if you work hard at your job and you know you're doing a good job and you're working your way up the ranks because of your efforts, do you really need your boss to come in every day to personally physically  pat you on the back and say "good job."  ?

I suppose. However, with the unruly we that the final images in the game are introduced, it's the only thing resembling an interpretive anchor in those final minutes. They're just ... out there otherwise.