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[balance5050]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Alright, just dropping this for those in the know:

As we have seen, Bioware has used many different references, (such as The Matrix), in Mass Effect 3's main lore. Does anyone know of any dream based movies that hold parallels to Shepard's nightmares? While there is certainly both narrative and parapsychological foundation already there, a pre-existing platform would be useful.

I came across this notion, (which is simple, admittedly), after noting the presence of Freddy Krueger in Mortal Kombat (2011) DLC. Although I know Freddy is supposed to attack people in their dreams, I honestly have never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies to comment further.

Closest thing I can think of is Inception, but I don't think that fits what you're looking for.

Modifié par balance5050, 16 mai 2012 - 05:39 .

[Legion109]

dreamgazer wrote...

Guys, I'd start planning a rebuttal to the comment: "BioWare just forgot what gun Shepard was holding".

They actually do that a lot in ME3 as I never carried a pistol once I could select my weapon. Or the times my AR magically changed to the M-8 Avenger, though that happened a lot in ME2 as well.

- Life tastes better with an EIP -

- I am the Legion of 109 and I am the disturber of the disturbed - :O

[BatmanTurian]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Alright, just dropping this for those in the know:

As we have seen, Bioware has used many different references, (such as The Matrix), in Mass Effect 3's main lore. Does anyone know of any dream based movies that hold parallels to Shepard's nightmares? While there is certainly both narrative and parapsychological foundation already there, a pre-existing platform would be useful.

I came across this notion, (which is simple, admittedly), after noting the presence of Freddy Krueger in Mortal Kombat (2011) DLC. Although I know Freddy is supposed to attack people in their dreams, I honestly have never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies to comment further.

Freddy usually appears as himself, but he can also alter your dreams and even disguise himself, if I remember correctly. It's been like maybe 5-8 years since I saw a Freddy Movie.

I remember in Paranormal Activity, the Demon was not only tormenting the couple in physical ways, as it was slowly trying to possess the woman, it also gave her nightmares. Really, demonic possession is the only thing you can compare Indoctrination with, so even The Exorcist is fair game, although at the beginning of Exorcist, the girl is already turned.

So yeah, maybe Paranormal Activity movies are a great example of how Indoctrination would work (even if its done by a supernatural force in the movies). Everyone the demon targets comes around to the demon's way of thinking and becomes possessed and eventually a gibbering monster.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 16 mai 2012 - 05:48 .

[dreamgazer]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Alright, just dropping this for those in the know:

As we have seen, Bioware has used many different references, (such as The Matrix), in Mass Effect 3's main lore. Does anyone know of any dream based movies that hold parallels to Shepard's nightmares? While there is certainly both narrative and parapsychological foundation already there, a pre-existing platform would be useful.

I came across this notion, (which is simple, admittedly), after noting the presence of Freddy Krueger in Mortal Kombat (2011) DLC. Although I know Freddy is supposed to attack people in their dreams, I honestly have never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies to comment further.

I'm sure I'll think of more when I sleep on it, but you could possibly consider the Vader-Luke vision sequence (and Luke looking back on himself) in The Empire Strikes Back as an easy reference point.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 16 mai 2012 - 05:50 .

[BatmanTurian]

dble post

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 16 mai 2012 - 05:50 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I can't help but think the entire ending sequence from waking up to the choice cinematic is just one big subtle puzzle Bioware gave us to solve and we only have until EC comes out. I think we have some pretty big pieces of it but feels like we're missing something important or a lot of important things.

This just got me thinking: all those inconsistencies or "bugs" people like to point out about the endings, could they have been done on purpose? The shadows, the gun making an echo when it shoots Anderson, Anderson somehow getting ahead of you, Anderson somehow following you up, TIM coming out of nowhere. Unintentional bugs? Or Intentional clues?

Great, now Biowares' really done it this time, we were just recruited to build, and fire our own Crucible?

By locating clues and piecing together this debacle, we have been indoctrinated...............LOL.

Interesting spin, even if this is fanfic.

[BatmanTurian]

dreamgazer wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Alright, just dropping this for those in the know:

As we have seen, Bioware has used many different references, (such as The Matrix), in Mass Effect 3's main lore. Does anyone know of any dream based movies that hold parallels to Shepard's nightmares? While there is certainly both narrative and parapsychological foundation already there, a pre-existing platform would be useful.

I came across this notion, (which is simple, admittedly), after noting the presence of Freddy Krueger in Mortal Kombat (2011) DLC. Although I know Freddy is supposed to attack people in their dreams, I honestly have never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies to comment further.

I'm sure I'll think of more when I sleep on it, but you could possibly consider the Vader-Luke vision sequence (and Luke looking back on himself) in The Empire Strikes Back as an easy reference point.

Harry Potter talking to Dumbledore is a good example too.

[Icinix]

BatmanTurian wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Alright, just dropping this for those in the know:

As we have seen, Bioware has used many different references, (such as The Matrix), in Mass Effect 3's main lore. Does anyone know of any dream based movies that hold parallels to Shepard's nightmares? While there is certainly both narrative and parapsychological foundation already there, a pre-existing platform would be useful.

I came across this notion, (which is simple, admittedly), after noting the presence of Freddy Krueger in Mortal Kombat (2011) DLC. Although I know Freddy is supposed to attack people in their dreams, I honestly have never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies to comment further.

I'm sure I'll think of more when I sleep on it, but you could possibly consider the Vader-Luke vision sequence (and Luke looking back on himself) in The Empire Strikes Back as an easy reference point.

Harry Potter talking to Dumbledore is a good example too.

Total Recall maybe?

[dreamgazer]

 Oh, holy hell.  Why haven't I thought about Tarkovsky's Ivan's Childhood up until now?

It's been a while since I've screened it front to back.  Will need to change that this week, just for the heck of it (and to gain some potential perspective).

Modifié par dreamgazer, 16 mai 2012 - 06:08 .

[BatmanTurian]

Guys! Guys! TVTropes has this covered!

Nightmare Sequence

[BatmanTurian]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Guys! Guys! TVTropes has this covered!

Nightmare Sequence

From the page:

• VanillaSky, the whole movie IS a nightmare, but there are many scenes picturing a dream/nightmare inside a nightmare/dream

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Wyatt Shepard wrote...

Ok question, and forgive my noobness: lets assume that IT is true, or some version of it is true (which makes a great deal of sense to me). You reach the full destroy ending, Shepard lives and wakes up in the rubble left by Harbinger's blast.

This means, I think, that the Citadel never blew up. The relay's never destroyed or disabled, and critically, the Crucible never used and the Reapers never beaten. Sooooo...what then?

I'm curious because if the extended cut isn't new game play material, does that mean another DLC is coming to lay a beat down on the Reapers, or despite what Bioware said ME4 will be in the works and the fight against the Reapers continue....basically I just don't see how IT, as much as it makes sense, fits with what we know about the game and it's apparent ending/future.

As much as it repulses me to say this, the lucky few to finally get to defeat the rEApers, will undoubtably be through MP.

That just about made me hurl, while typing it.

Oh and before anybody GOES OFF on me, I have zero proof, and only a suspicion.

[Rifneno]

balance5050 wrote...

1: "Shepard and Anderson approach the conduit's beam. Shepard gets in, but Anderson is grabbed by a husk. Shepard turns to help, but before he can do anything, the beam activates, whisking Shepard away to the Citadel. On the other side, Shepard tears the metal from his leg and casts it aside, and then injects himself with Medigel."

2:"Shepard comes to. Anderson is dragging him forward. A jagged, bloody piece of metal is sticking out of his thigh. The conduit anchor retracts, stranding the henchmen. Shepard tries to walk, but his leg buckles. Anderson hands Shepard his pistol, and lifts Shepard's arm around his neck, supporting his leg. The two begin to shuffle towards the conduit beam."

I don't know how it figures into this... but that's eerily similar to the Earth trailer of Coates in Big Ben. It starts with him having a metal wire or something through his thigh. Then he takes out what is presumed to be medigel in a syringe and injects it into the thigh. Then he gets up and starts sniping husks.

Not only is it oddly similar but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He was up in that tower sniping for God only knows how long. How the hell did he get his leg impaled on that metal whateverthehellitis?

[Icinix]

Rifneno wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

1: "Shepard and Anderson approach the conduit's beam. Shepard gets in, but Anderson is grabbed by a husk. Shepard turns to help, but before he can do anything, the beam activates, whisking Shepard away to the Citadel. On the other side, Shepard tears the metal from his leg and casts it aside, and then injects himself with Medigel."

2:"Shepard comes to. Anderson is dragging him forward. A jagged, bloody piece of metal is sticking out of his thigh. The conduit anchor retracts, stranding the henchmen. Shepard tries to walk, but his leg buckles. Anderson hands Shepard his pistol, and lifts Shepard's arm around his neck, supporting his leg. The two begin to shuffle towards the conduit beam."

I don't know how it figures into this... but that's eerily similar to the Earth trailer of Coates in Big Ben. It starts with him having a metal wire or something through his thigh. Then he takes out what is presumed to be medigel in a syringe and injects it into the thigh. Then he gets up and starts sniping husks.

Not only is it oddly similar but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He was up in that tower sniping for God only knows how long. How the hell did he get his leg impaled on that metal whateverthehellitis?

Coates was in there for 3 days. He says something along those lines in the ambient dialogue at the end.

[dreamgazer]

I could definitely see Vanilla Sky as a viable, widely-seen reference point for indoctrination theory's more readily digestible components---even if the original film that it remade, Abre Los Ojos, has a significantly more intense nightmare quotient. Shares some similarities with the overall theory, too, even if it's on a secondary level: elements taken from reality and transplanted into the dream world, unreliability of the people seen in the dream space, and the big choice at the end.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 16 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[Rifneno]

Icinix wrote...

Coates was in there for 3 days. He says something along those lines in the ambient dialogue at the end.

Exactly.  So is he just a clumsy idiot and he tripped on his bootlaces, landing on some sharp scrap metal?  It doesn't make any sense.  But I can't figure how it supports IT or any other theory either.  It's just... weird.

[BatmanTurian]

dreamgazer wrote...

I could definitely see Vanilla Sky as a viable, widely-seen reference point for indoctrination theory's more readily digestible components---even if the original film that it remade, Abre Los Ojos, has a significantly more intense nightmare quotient. Shares some similarities with the overall theory, too, even if it's on a secondary level: elements taken from reality and transplanted into the dream world, unreliability of the people seen in the dream space, and the big choice at the end.

Exactly.

[DJBare]

balance5050 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Alright, just dropping this for those in the know:

As we have seen, Bioware has used many different references, (such as The Matrix), in Mass Effect 3's main lore. Does anyone know of any dream based movies that hold parallels to Shepard's nightmares? While there is certainly both narrative and parapsychological foundation already there, a pre-existing platform would be useful.

I came across this notion, (which is simple, admittedly), after noting the presence of Freddy Krueger in Mortal Kombat (2011) DLC. Although I know Freddy is supposed to attack people in their dreams, I honestly have never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies to comment further.

Closest thing I can think of is Inception, but I don't think that fits what you're looking for.

I'd have to say it fits Inception quite well, by the end of the movie you are not sure whether it's still a dream or reality, the current ending to this game is the same, we've all put forward reasonable evidence that Shepard's in some kind of dream state, but none of us really know for certain.

Modifié par DJBare, 16 mai 2012 - 06:41 .

[Icinix]

Rifneno wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Coates was in there for 3 days. He says something along those lines in the ambient dialogue at the end.

Exactly.  So is he just a clumsy idiot and he tripped on his bootlaces, landing on some sharp scrap metal?  It doesn't make any sense.  But I can't figure how it supports IT or any other theory either.  It's just... weird.

A lot of the marketing and the game itself is werid.

That early trailer clues with Coats ended with a massive red herring.....before releasing the full trailer.

Hell, everything about the early marketing said the Cerberus was indoctrinated, even the early gameplay footage, then the game came out and they weren't....at least not until it says they are in what may well be a situation that is not really happening.

Quite frankly - trying to wrap my head around everything ME3 melts my brain at this point in time. 

[BatmanTurian]

dreamgazer wrote...

I could definitely see Vanilla Sky as a viable, widely-seen reference point for indoctrination theory's more readily digestible components---even if the original film that it remade, Abre Los Ojos, has a significantly more intense nightmare quotient. Shares some similarities with the overall theory, too, even if it's on a secondary level: elements taken from reality and transplanted into the dream world, unreliability of the people seen in the dream space, and the big choice at the end.

And also, Scarecrow from Batman uses the same kind of tactics with gas. Arkham Asylum really runs with it to a freaky degree but so does Arkham city with the Mad Hatter battle.

if course, technically those are both hallucinations mixed with reality but it also fits with the indoctrination hallucination idea.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 16 mai 2012 - 06:46 .

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Hey guys, anything new?

[Icinix]

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Hey guys, anything new?

When choosing Destroy, carnifex changes mid in game cutscene to Predator....think thats been the big recent development.

[DJBare]

Icinix wrote...

Coates was in there for 3 days. He says something along those lines in the ambient dialogue at the end.

The problem I have with his line is, three days alone without being overwhelmed?, it's not like his position was that safe, from the moment he took the first couple of shots the hoard would have eventually homed in on his location, Coats is definitely on my suspects list along with Hackett, Liara, EDI and Anderson, sucks really, I like EDI.

[Auralius Carolus]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Alright, just dropping this for those in the know:

As we have seen, Bioware has used many different references, (such as The Matrix), in Mass Effect 3's main lore. Does anyone know of any dream based movies that hold parallels to Shepard's nightmares? While there is certainly both narrative and parapsychological foundation already there, a pre-existing platform would be useful.

I came across this notion, (which is simple, admittedly), after noting the presence of Freddy Krueger in Mortal Kombat (2011) DLC. Although I know Freddy is supposed to attack people in their dreams, I honestly have never watched any of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies to comment further.

Freddy usually appears as himself, but he can also alter your dreams and even disguise himself, if I remember correctly. It's been like maybe 5-8 years since I saw a Freddy Movie.

I remember in Paranormal Activity, the Demon was not only tormenting the couple in physical ways, as it was slowly trying to possess the woman, it also gave her nightmares. Really, demonic possession is the only thing you can compare Indoctrination with, so even The Exorcist is fair game, although at the beginning of Exorcist, the girl is already turned.

So yeah, maybe Paranormal Activity movies are a great example of how Indoctrination would work (even if its done by a supernatural force in the movies). Everyone the demon targets comes around to the demon's way of thinking and becomes possessed and eventually a gibbering monster.

I would agree that Indoctrination is akin to demonic influence and possession, right down to the EMF/Infrasound/Ultrasound, etc. references. Having studied parapsychology and talked with people tormented by such phenomina, the corruptive nature of the Reapers comes off clearly.

[UrgentArchengel]

This really wants to make me study parapsychology, well, this and Ghostbusters.