55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Riot86]

byne wrote...

Where the explosion starts really doesnt matter. The area Shepard is in is completely engulfed in flame.

Her armor was badly damaged, and she was wearing no helmet, so she didnt really have any protection from the explosion, no matter where it started.

The Citadel is built from the same stuff as the mass relays, and the relays can survive supernovas.

Shepard is a human, and while tougher than regular humans, she is not invincible.

Looking at the damage the explosion did to the rest of the Citadel, she'd be vaporized.

Sums it up perfectly...there is NO WAY, Shepard could have survied such a explosion (except for , of course).

I sometimes get the impression, people tend to forget how big the citadel actually is...as said by BleedingUranium that explosion has to be at least 15km wide - every organic standing inside the blast radius would have been vaporized.

Modifié par Riot86, 05 juin 2012 - 10:32 .

[Tiberis]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

Wait, the final explosion you see four oddly equally-sized pieces of metal coming out in all four directions. They appear to look a bit rounded, as if they came from a sphere (the crucible's "head"). The main and largest explosion might be the crucible itself, not the citadel.

[EpyonX3]

Tiberis wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

Wait, the final explosion you see four oddly equally-sized pieces of metal coming out in all four directions. They appear to look a bit rounded, as if they came from a sphere (the crucible's "head"). The main and largest explosion might be the crucible itself, not the citadel.

It would be impossible for that to be the crucible. The crucible was docked behind the citadel. If the explosion was at the center, those peices should have been blown backwards not toward the camera. Those rounded chunks are from the arms exploding.

[EpyonX3]

brb...

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


Not really pure fiction, quantum physics are a real thing and just the act of observation can collapse a wave form.

Interesting. Almost makes me want to learn quantum physics. I rather enjoyed 1301 and 1302. Even managed to pass them with A's without needing to use the lab component. Never went beyond that, though. 

I approve of such an attitude. But what are 1301 and 1302?

Basic/General College Physics. 

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


it's not even rendered in the scene. It's either just too far away to be visible in this scene or bioware left it out because they felt it wasn't important. My opinion, of course.

It's a pre-rendered scene, though. They can include as much detail as they want. 

Not quite. When they model the scene, they work in real-time. The workstation has limitations that constrain the complexity of the scene.

Where did you get that idea? That isnt true at all. Theyre limited only by the video format they use. 

[Riot86]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Tiberis wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

Wait, the final explosion you see four oddly equally-sized pieces of metal coming out in all four directions. They appear to look a bit rounded, as if they came from a sphere (the crucible's "head"). The main and largest explosion might be the crucible itself, not the citadel.

It would be impossible for that to be the crucible. The crucible was docked behind the citadel. If the explosion was at the center, those peices should have been blown backwards not toward the camera. Those rounded chunks are from the arms exploding.

I believe those are 4 of the 5 "flaps" at the back of the citadel: images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120421035004/masseffect/images/thumb/1/15/Crucibledocking.png/830px-Crucibledocking.png

Which is where the Crucuble docked and therefore pretty damn close to where Shepard is standing...which surely means he had to be in that explosion.

[Tiberis]

It doesn't look like it came from the citadel because right after the big explosion nothing is actually missing from the arms. The pieces I mentioned fly away from the center (the explosion originating from the meeting point of the citadel and crucible), not towards the camera. I don't know, it's too fuzzy to really make out everything clearly and it's too dark to even make out the tail of the crucible (if it's even there). But why would they "not care" to put in the crucible? It's made out to be the central component of the whole ending. I'm so confused.

Edit
@Riot
That would clear it up; that's the next most logical thing. But I again question the absence of the crucible in that scene since it plays such a pivatol role.

Modifié par Tiberis, 05 juin 2012 - 10:43 .

[Lord Goose]

explosion has to be at least
15km wide - every organic standing inside the blast
radius would have been vaporized.

Size isn't equal to deadly force. If it was what big, it means that it had wider dispersal range. Assuming that the room where Shepard was at that point was heavily protected gives him or her some survival chance.

[byne]

Lord Goose wrote...

explosion has to be at least
15km wide - every organic standing inside the blast
radius would have been vaporized.

Size isn't equal to deadly force. If it was what big, it means that it had wider dispersal range. Assuming that the room where Shepard was at that point was heavily protected gives him or her some survival chance.

Except Shepard wasnt in a room. She was pretty clearly right where the Crucible and Citadel docked.

[HellishFiend]

Lord Goose wrote...

explosion has to be at least
15km wide - every organic standing inside the blast
radius would have been vaporized.

Size isn't equal to deadly force. If it was what big, it means that it had wider dispersal range. Assuming that the room where Shepard was at that point was heavily protected gives him or her some survival chance.

I think we get it. You think there is a possibility that there is a hidden set of circumstances that are conducive towards Shepard surviving an explosion the size of a small city. Nevermind that we are offered nothing in the game itself that actually suggests that. The only justification you have is the breath scene, and a set of baseless scientific assumptions based on the assumption that the ending is to be taken at face value. 

Doesnt seem very plausible to me, but whatever floats your boat. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

explosion has to be at least
15km wide - every organic standing inside the blast
radius would have been vaporized.

Size isn't equal to deadly force. If it was what big, it means that it had wider dispersal range. Assuming that the room where Shepard was at that point was heavily protected gives him or her some survival chance.

I think we get it. You think there is a possibility that there is a hidden set of circumstances that are conducive towards Shepard surviving an explosion the size of a small city. Nevermind that we are offered nothing in the game itself that actually suggests that. The only justification you have is the breath scene, and a set of baseless scientific assumptions based on the assumption that the ending is to be taken at face value. 

Doesnt seem very plausible to me, but whatever floats your boat. 

Should I repost my "Shepard needs to survive all these" list or would it be futile? I'll try and dig it up anyway.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


it's not even rendered in the scene. It's either just too far away to be visible in this scene or bioware left it out because they felt it wasn't important. My opinion, of course.

It's a pre-rendered scene, though. They can include as much detail as they want. 

Not quite. When they model the scene, they work in real-time. The workstation has limitations that constrain the complexity of the scene.

Where did you get that idea? That isnt true at all. Theyre limited only by the video format they use. 

When they use 3dsmax or sometrhing similar. The more objects you put in a scene the more processing power you need when manipulating or animating them.

[Riot86]

Tiberis wrote...

Edit
@Riot
That would clear it up; that's the next most logical thing. But I again question the absence of the crucible in that scene since it plays such a pivatol role.

But the Crucible CAN be seen in those shots. Stop the video at around 0:17, you'll see a large sphere within the Presidium Ring: i48.tinypic.com/m0sr7.jpg (tried very poorly to highlight were to look at ).

Look again at the pic of the Citadel's backside I linked before - and then compare the size of the sphere in the YT video to the size of Crucible docking below the Presidium Ring...it matches perfectly.

Modifié par Riot86, 05 juin 2012 - 10:58 .

[Lord Goose]

She was pretty clearly
right where the Crucible and Citadel docked.

Well, if that place was protected. And it could have been protected.

[paxxton]

Lord Goose wrote...

She was pretty clearly
right where the Crucible and Citadel docked.

Well, if that place was protected. And it could have been protected.

You know, it's good practice to add info on who wrote the post you're responding to.

Modifié par paxxton, 05 juin 2012 - 11:07 .

[byne]

Lord Goose wrote...

She was pretty clearly
right where the Crucible and Citadel docked.

Well, if that place was protected. And it could have been protected.

It doesnt even have a wall surrounding it. How is it protected in any way?

[Riot86]

byne wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

She was pretty clearly
right where the Crucible and Citadel docked.

Well, if that place was protected. And it could have been protected.

It doesnt even have a wall surrounding it. How is it protected in any way?

[boeloe]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

explosion has to be at least
15km wide - every organic standing inside the blast
radius would have been vaporized.

Size isn't equal to deadly force. If it was what big, it means that it had wider dispersal range. Assuming that the room where Shepard was at that point was heavily protected gives him or her some survival chance.

I think we get it. You think there is a possibility that there is a hidden set of circumstances that are conducive towards Shepard surviving an explosion the size of a small city. Nevermind that we are offered nothing in the game itself that actually suggests that. The only justification you have is the breath scene, and a set of baseless scientific assumptions based on the assumption that the ending is to be taken at face value. 

Doesnt seem very plausible to me, but whatever floats your boat. 

Should I repost my "Shepard needs to survive all these" list or would it be futile? I'll try and dig it up anyway.

Post it, and end this ridiculous discussion

[Riot86]

boeloe wrote...

Post it, and end this ridiculous discussion

In a "normal" discussion, it should be enough just pointing out, that this explosion severly damages the Citadel, ripping of several of its arms. You know, this spacestation that was build out of the same material as the Mass Relays, which can withstand the shockwave of a supernova explosion. So the force of that explosion had to be IMMENSE.

But I guess this isn't a normal discussion, so maybe he should post the list

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Very well, reposted from a few hundred pages ago, a list of things Shepard needs to survive, slightly updated:

When viewing the following keep in mind several things: The Citadel is massive. Shepard is at the base of the ring, essentially under the Presidium Tower in the center of the Citadel where the Crucible is docked. Shepard has hardly any armor and no kinetic barriers as proven by the blood spatter from Marauder Shields attack.



This explosion more than envelops the area where Shepard was in the decision chamber, the sheer size of this explosion should let us assume that it is LARGE and FATAL to anything near it.

A list of things Shepard would need to survive in the Destroy ending in order to take the famous breath:

1. Potentially fatal injuries already sustained.
2. The initial explosion of the Destroy tube (the strength and force of this explosion alone could outright kill Shepard at point blank range).
3. Being ground zero when the Red Wave is sent out (it's enough force to move space debris and Reapers, it would most definitely hurt Shepard being that close).
4. The Red Wave itself. "You can wipe out all Synthetic life if you want --- Even YOU are partly Synthetic," it's entirely possible ALL of Shepard's implants would be deactivated on contact with the Red energy.
5. The Citadel ring explosion, image above (or, The Crucible Explosion, or The Tower explosion, it's source does not limit it's destructive force).
6. The vastness of space without a helmet. Or air for that matter.
7. Re-entry into Earths atmosphere without kinetic barriers or whole armor or a helmet (the sheer heat of freefall would vaporize Shepard if other things hadn't already.)
8. Impact with the ground, assuming anything is left of Shepard it would have to be scooped up with a shovel and bucket.

The infamous "Shepard Breath" scene I'm 99% positive it takes place on Earth, see my sig for London Rubble/Breath scene Rubble comparison. Shepard is in one piece, bloodied and battered, and takes a breath on Earth after the list above, the only logical explanation is that Shepard never left Earth. Whether or not things occurred in your head or in real life while you were unconscious is up in the air at this point.

[FFZero]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Epyon, at the end you see three large chunks floating away from the explosion, that's the crucible.

No, those are parts of the panel that separate before the main explosion. Look at the small explosion that happens in that same exact spot. You'll see it floating slightly just before the big one.

What is your proposal for why the Crucible vanishes?

it's not even rendered in the scene. It's either just too far away to be visible in this scene or bioware left it out because they felt it wasn't important. My opinion, of course.

So wait, your opinion is:

1: BioWare thinks the Crucible isnt important to include in the scene. (Even though everything happening in the scene is being caused by the Crucible)
2: BioWare intended to portray Shepard as being on the Crucible.

So they dont think its important at all to show us the big thing Shepard is on? We're just supposed to, what? Assume it is there?

Close but not exactly. I'm thinking that they didn't include it so that it would have been easier to render the scene. Since the distance we are viewing this from is so far, it would be difficult to see the crucble anyway.

Also the whole Shepard was on the crucible thing changed quite a bit. He was on the Citadel but made his choices on a crucible/citadel interface.

Sorry, I’m not buying that. Do you have any idea how powerful the workstations they use are? They are far more powerful and specialised than anything you or I would ever use, in fact these scenes were probably created on custom built rigs purposefully built to create pre-rendered cutscenes. Besides, creating and rendering a scene of that scale and detail isn’t beyond the capabilities of your average high end computer. Yes it would probably take a ridiculously long time to render, but other than that it would certainly be possible, there is no reason why the systems they use wouldn’t be capable of creating it.

Also, since the scene is mostly viewed from a distance they could’ve just used a low poly model of the Crucible to save on render time. Even in the close ups they could’ve just used a low poly model, since with all the explosions and space magic effects we wouldn’t be able to see much detail anyway.

I’m guessing it was either a design oversight or more likely the Crucible at that point is destroyed and the debris we see collecting around the spot where the space magic laser comes from is all that’s left.

Modifié par FFZero, 05 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[D.Sharrah]

Anyone else catch EA's E3 Presentation...did anyone else what the initial presenter said, "...about not just wanting to make great games..."? That might be paraphrased a little bit, but then he goes onto to talk about games are eveolving from a disc you buy to a place you go...and how their presentation was meant to show just how they were going to be doing that with current titles and upcoming titles.

I didn't pay attention to everything after that...but the more I thought about what he said, the more it got me thinking about how that applies to current titles. At first, I was just thinking of the obvious tie in - dlc (and the all mighty dollars that means for developers/publishers). But then I thought of the Caey Hudson quote talking about "wanting the players to feel what Shepard feels"...and I thought is it possible that there is a connection?

We have talked here about how mind blowing it would be if Bioware has actually been able to pull off the absoluetly amazing feat of potentially "indoctrinating" its fanbase...wouldn't this type of experience fit exactly with what that initial presenter was talking about with "wanting to make where games take you great" (again may be a little paraphrased)? I don't want to give EA any credit for this...but is it possible that if it was planned (by Bioware - and - given these current statements), that EA was on board?

I don't know if this is "evidence" that we can use to say that IT 100% exists...but, if it does exists it just might be "evidence" that EA supports it...and given how much is riding on "appeasing" the fans...the EC just might be even better than we could ever imagine - and would easily make the ME trilogy truly epic and history making.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


it's not even rendered in the scene. It's either just too far away to be visible in this scene or bioware left it out because they felt it wasn't important. My opinion, of course.

It's a pre-rendered scene, though. They can include as much detail as they want. 

Not quite. When they model the scene, they work in real-time. The workstation has limitations that constrain the complexity of the scene.

Where did you get that idea? That isnt true at all. Theyre limited only by the video format they use. 

When they use 3dsmax or sometrhing similar. The more objects you put in a scene the more processing power you need when manipulating or animating them.

You're thinking really small-scale here. Big budget titles dont operate with those kinds of limitations. Big budget movies and even games have been creating CGI with far more detail than what we see in the ME3 ending for well over a decade. 

[Riot86]

FFZero wrote...

Also, since the scene is mostly viewed from a distance they could’ve just used a low poly model of the Crucible to save on render time. Even in the close ups they could’ve just used a low poly model, since with all the explosions and space magic effects we wouldn’t be able to see much detail anyway.

I’m guessing it was either a design oversight or more likely the Crucible at that point is destroyed and the debris we see collecting around the spot where the space magic laser comes from is all that’s left.

Keeping in mind, that the Crucible seems almost tiny in comparision to the Presidium Ring, it sure would not be easy to spot from such a distance as in the cutscene...




And as I said before, I believe you actually CAN see the crucible in that explosion:

Modifié par Riot86, 05 juin 2012 - 11:27 .