55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Tiberis]

Riot86 wrote...

But the Crucible CAN be seen in those shots. Stop the video at around 0:17, you'll see a large sphere within the Presidium Ring: i48.tinypic.com/m0sr7.jpg (tried very poorly to highlight were to look at ).

Look again at the pic of the Citadel's backside I linked before - and then compare the size of the sphere in the YT video to the size of Crucible docking below the Presidium Ring...it matches perfectly.

Sorry, I appreciate how you are trying to prove your point. I just can't see it (that close up everything is way too blurry/obscured). Since I can't tell either way, I'm saying the crucible is there because it doesn't make sense for it not to be.

[Starbuck8]

dmay7 wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Ok, got past Sanctuary today, and noticed these lines when talking to EDI.

Shepard: Do you believe submission is better than Extinction? - This line Shepard says it is better to be dead than to be the pawn of some other power. While not really anything to do with IT, I say it tries to sway you from chosing Control or Synthesis, as synthesis is essentially "the ultimate compromise", and Control is basically subjugating the Reapers.

EDI: The Reapers only know self-preservation. - This line BASICALLY PROVES that the Reapers care for nothing more than to save their own asses over any means necessary. This basically proves that the Reapers WANT you to pick anything but Destroy. Deductive reasoning would say that Shepard believes death is better than being a pawn, so out of his conscience, he would kill the Reapers rather than subjugate them, so Control is out, and the Reapers will do anything to maintain their existence, so that eliminates Synthesis.

And this all relates to IT because this dialouge basically tells you Destroy is the right answer, and this relates to IT because I don't care what anyone says, but Shepard can barely walk as he starts shooting the conduit, and then starts walking without a limp the more he shoots (cool guys may not look at explosions, but insanely awesome badass save-the-galaxy guys walk DIRECTLY towards the explosion).

Interesting observation. Definitely shows that it makes no sense that starbinger, creator/leader/whatever of the reapers, would even give us the option to destroy him and the reapers.

I should point out though that in synthesis you actually start sprinting toward the beam. (I know because that was my first choice )

Yeah I know that too, but I'm thinking that is probably for more dramatic effect than realism (what is more emotional, him sprinting into the beam with no fear of sacrifice, doing a swan dive, or limping all the way, then just falling into it, tumbling all the way down?)

Lmao, you're right, it would have been pretty sad!

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Interesting
observation. Definitely shows that it makes no sense that starbinger, creator/leader/whatever of the reapers, would even give us the option to destroy him and the reapers.

I should point out though that in synthesis you actually start sprinting toward the beam. (I know because that was my first choice )

Starbinger
has no choice but to give us the Destroy option, or else Shepard and the player would both call BS. As I say in my sig, Indoctrination uses your own morals and ethics against you. That's why Starbinger says the nasty things he does to try and disuade Shepard from picking destroy, and says the happy, cheerful things he does about Synthesis. His
description of Control seems the most neutral. He probably figures that if anything, Shepard/the Player's values will cause him to pick that regardless of what he says about it. 

Yes, destroy definitely fits into IT and the decision being a dream/hallucination. Does not make sense in a face-value context that the reapers would give you the option to destroy them...

Modifié par Starbuck8, 06 juin 2012 - 12:16 .

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...


Yes, destroy definitely fits into IT and the decision being a dream/hallucination. Does not make sense in a face-value context that the reapers would give you the option to destroy them...

Exactly. I think that pro-enders say it's because "The Crucible changed him", but there are two major problems with that.

1) The very nature of a Catalyst is that it does not change at all when serving it's purpose
2) "The Catalyst" demonstrates quite sharply that he is still in full control of his opinions and thought processes. Thus we should be able to conclude that if it were real, The Catalyst would find a far less subtle method of disuading Shepard from picking destroy, or else not even call him up to the decision chamber at all. 

[Arian Dynas]

Starbuck8 wrote...

*somethingsomething somethingsomething.*

Why is it whenever I see your name I immediately think of Don. S. Davis talking to Gillian Anderson?

[Starbuck8]

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


Yes, destroy definitely fits into IT and the decision being a dream/hallucination. Does not make sense in a face-value context that the reapers would give you the option to destroy them...

Exactly. I think that pro-enders say it's because "The Crucible changed him", but there are two major problems with that.

1) The very nature of a Catalyst is that it does not change at all when serving it's purpose
2) "The Catalyst" demonstrates quite sharply that he is still in full control of his opinions and thought processes. Thus we should be able to conclude that if it were real, The Catalyst would find a far less subtle method of disuading Shepard from picking destroy, or else not even call him up to the decision chamber at all. 

Haha right, so if the crucible changed him, then the crucible is the catalyst! hahaha^_^ Noh!

[llbountyhunter]

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Interesting observation. Definitely shows that it makes no sense that starbinger, creator/leader/whatever of the reapers, would even give us the option to destroy him and the reapers.

I should point out though that in synthesis you actually start sprinting toward the beam. (I know because that was my first choice )

Starbinger has no choice but to give us the Destroy option, or else Shepard and the player would both call BS. As I say in my sig, Indoctrination uses your own morals and ethics against you. That's why Starbinger says the nasty things he does to try and disuade Shepard from picking destroy, and says the happy, cheerful things he does about Synthesis. His description of Control seems the most neutral. He probably figures that if anything, Shepard/the Player's values will cause him to pick that regardless of what he says about it. 

Actually think the destroy option is entirely shepards construct. The reapers are pushing for control synthesis, while shepard is fighting for destroy. The end result is choice chamber where shepard/the player have to pick.


That's my take on it.

[Starbuck8]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

*somethingsomething somethingsomething.*

Why is it whenever I see your name I immediately think of Don. S. Davis talking to Gillian Anderson?

Lol! I do not know. Did they even act together?

[Arian Dynas]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

*somethingsomething somethingsomething.*

Why is it whenever I see your name I immediately think of Don. S. Davis talking to Gillian Anderson?

Lol! I do not know. Did they even act together?

Oh, now I remember. He played Scully's dad for an episode, he called Scully "Starbuck" and she called him "Ahab."

[Starbuck8]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

*somethingsomething somethingsomething.*

Why is it whenever I see your name I immediately think of Don. S. Davis talking to Gillian Anderson?

Lol! I do not know. Did they even act together?

Oh, now I remember. He played Scully's dad for an episode, he called Scully "Starbuck" and she called him "Ahab."

Oh! haha I didn't know that. It's been a while since I've watch the X-Files! That reminds me of her dog Queequeg that got eaten

[HellishFiend]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Actually think the destroy option is entirely shepards construct. The reapers are pushing for control synthesis, while shepard is fighting for destroy. The end result is choice chamber where shepard/the player have to pick.


That's my take on it.

Seems plausible. The only issue I can see with that is that Starbinger would have no reason to expound on the Destroy option, and would probably be inclined to leave Shepard clueless as to what that strange tube does. 

[D.Sharrah]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Snip...

Why yes I would. Here you go.

Arian Dynas wrote...

Snip...

 

I have seen Arian's theory and personally believe that it is very plausible.  What I was more asking was if EA's statements at the event gave any strength/support to his theory (ie that IT and thus the ending was planned w/the purpose of expanding the universe of the game through both in game content, post game content, and all play modes)...and if it does - then can we expect that the EC (even if the purpose is just too provide greater clarity on IT and not an actual conclusion itself), to help cement ME's place in gaming history?

[llbountyhunter]

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Actually think the destroy option is entirely shepards construct. The reapers are pushing for control synthesis, while shepard is fighting for destroy. The end result is choice chamber where shepard/the player have to pick.


That's my take on it.

Seems plausible. The only issue I can see with that is that Starbinger would have no reason to expound on the Destroy option, and would probably be inclined to leave Shepard clueless as to what that strange tube does. 

Well Since the dream is like 90% reaper influence (aproximatly) and 10% shepards faltering will, then Maybe reaperbieber is the same way.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 06 juin 2012 - 12:41 .

[Riot86]

Tiberis wrote...

Sorry, I appreciate how you are trying to prove your point. I just can't see it (that close up everything is way too blurry/obscured). Since I can't tell either way, I'm saying the crucible is there because it doesn't make sense for it not to be.

I dilettantishly edited the last screencap a bit (fixing the contrast, brighten it up a little and using a filter to reduce the blur):



The base of the beam is clearly a bit darker than the surrounding. It also seems to be of circular shape, just like the Crucible. You might to want to step a few steps away from your screen, I get the feeling it is easier to see from a distance.

Compare the ratio of the dark sphere's size with the size of the Presidium Ring in the picture above. And then do the same in this pic.:



The ratio seems to be exactly the same for me, which makes it possible that this dark spot is in fact the Crucible. Keep in mind that the first picture is enlarged quiet a bit, so we can't expect much detail.

But then again...maybe I'm just seeing things, who knows? 

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 12:50 .

[Arian Dynas]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Snip...

Why yes I would. Here you go.

Arian Dynas wrote...

Snip...

 

I have seen Arian's theory and personally believe that it is very plausible.  What I was more asking was if EA's statements at the event gave any strength/support to his theory (ie that IT and thus the ending was planned w/the purpose of expanding the universe of the game through both in game content, post game content, and all play modes)...and if it does - then can we expect that the EC (even if the purpose is just too provide greater clarity on IT and not an actual conclusion itself), to help cement ME's place in gaming history?

Welp, it works for me.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Back. Anything new or are we still arguing about the explosion?

[Big Bad]

EpyonX3 - I'm not sure if you're still around at the moment or not, but I had a question from a discussion earlier in the day that I was hoping to ask you (I was at work at the time and could only lurk).

Earlier you said that you think the EC will mostly just be adding scenes that were cut either after they were "filmed" or before. I'm curious what you think about Casey Hudson's tweet about how if the fans only knew what BW had planned, their reaction to the end would be different. Obviously that says nothing specific about IT, but to me it sure seems to be implying that BW has had something up their sleeve since day one. What's your interpretation?

[lex0r11]

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 - I'm not sure if you're still around at the moment or not, but I had a question from a discussion earlier in the day that I was hoping to ask you (I was at work at the time and could only lurk).

Earlier you said that you think the EC will mostly just be adding scenes that were cut either after they were "filmed" or before. I'm curious what you think about Casey Hudson's tweet about how if the fans only knew what BW had planned, their reaction to the end would be different. Obviously that says nothing specific about IT, but to me it sure seems to be implying that BW has had something up their sleeve since day one. What's your interpretation?

Could you maybe link me to that tweet? I remember Gamble saying almost the same thing just after launch in a tweet. Or are we mixing up things?

[BleedingUranium]

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Actually think the destroy option is entirely shepards construct. The reapers are pushing for control synthesis, while shepard is fighting for destroy. The end result is choice chamber where shepard/the player have to pick.


That's my take on it.

Seems plausible. The only issue I can see with that is that Starbinger would have no reason to expound on the Destroy option, and would probably be inclined to leave Shepard clueless as to what that strange tube does. 

You're still thinking too literally, there is no tube. Just like the "gun" in the Geth consensus was actually a kind of anti-virus software. It destroys things (in this case, Reaper code) so what does Shepard imagine? A gun. Because he's a soldier. Also, a Geth gun, because that's where he is (it's the cannon the Primes use BTW).

Imagine that you (as Shep) are in a blank room. You imagine destroying the Reapers, what comes to mind? The same tubes you destroyed to kill a Reaper before. It's not a virtual reality like the Matrix, where you're "in a dream" but fully conscious, with everything fully detailed. You're dreaming. Everything that's not super important doesn't seem to be there, but you don't notice. You don't have the ability to question things, everything makes sense at the time.

You can't replicate that in a game, because while you (not Shep you) are playing you'll be fully conscious and paying attention to things. That's how you have to think. Nothing in the dream is literal.

[DextroDNA]

What does the explosion of the Citadel have to do with the IT? Nothing.
GET BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!

[HellishFiend]

BleedingUranium wrote...

You're still thinking too literally, there is no tube. Just like the "gun" in the Geth consensus was actually a kind of anti-virus software. It destroys things (in this case, Reaper code) so what does Shepard imagine? A gun. Because he's a soldier. Also, a Geth gun, because that's where he is (it's the cannon the Primes use BTW).

Imagine that you (as Shep) are in a blank room. You imagine destroying the Reapers, what comes to mind? The same tubes you destroyed to kill a Reaper before. It's not a virtual reality like the Matrix, where you're "in a dream" but fully conscious, with everything fully detailed. You're dreaming. Everything that's not super important doesn't seem to be there, but you don't notice. You don't have the ability to question things, everything makes sense at the time.

You can't replicate that in a game, because while you (not Shep you) are playing you'll be fully conscious and paying attention to things. That's how you have to think. Nothing in the dream is literal.

I know that. -.-  The point is that if it's a construct of Shepard's mind that exists there against the Reaper's will, then why would they explain it to Shepard at all? The only explanation is that Starbinger's dialog is partially influenced by Shepard, and I dont buy that. We got that part over and done with in the Anderson/TIM scene. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 06 juin 2012 - 01:09 .

[Big Bad]

lex0r11 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 - I'm not sure if you're still around at the moment or not, but I had a question from a discussion earlier in the day that I was hoping to ask you (I was at work at the time and could only lurk).

Earlier you said that you think the EC will mostly just be adding scenes that were cut either after they were "filmed" or before. I'm curious what you think about Casey Hudson's tweet about how if the fans only knew what BW had planned, their reaction to the end would be different. Obviously that says nothing specific about IT, but to me it sure seems to be implying that BW has had something up their sleeve since day one. What's your interpretation?

Could you maybe link me to that tweet? I remember Gamble saying almost the same thing just after launch in a tweet. Or are we mixing up things?

It's entirely possible that I mixed the two up, but I will look for a link.

[Riot86]

RussianZombeh wrote...

What does the explosion of the Citadel have to do with the IT? Nothing.
GET BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!

The discussion whether Shepard could have survive such a explosion or not has a lot to do with IT, as it questions if the scene was real or maybe just a hallucination/dream.

The discussion, whether the Crucible can be seen in the endsequence or not however is indeed in no way connected to IT....so yeah - sorry
(...but still no reason to shout, mate )

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 01:16 .

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

What does the explosion of the Citadel have to do with the IT? Nothing.
GET BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!

The discussion whether Shepard could have survive such a explosion or not, has a lot to do with IT, as it questions if the scene was real or maybe a halluzination.

The discussion, whether the Crucible can be seen in the Endsequence or not howerer is indeed in no way connected to IT....so yeah - sorry
(...but still no reason to shout, mate )

Further discussion of that topic is grounds for further admonishment.

[Riot86]

HellishFiend wrote...

Further discussion of that topic is grounds for further admonishment.

Loved that scene

[DextroDNA]

Riot86 wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

What does the explosion of the Citadel have to do with the IT? Nothing.
GET BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!

The discussion whether Shepard could have survive such a explosion or not has a lot to do with IT, as it questions if the scene was real or maybe just a hallucination/dream.

The discussion, whether the Crucible can be seen in the endsequence or not however is indeed in no way connected to IT....so yeah - sorry
(...but still no reason to shout, mate )

There should be no debate, the entire Presidium ring was lit up like a Christmas tree with Shepard in the middle, and the breath scene at the end had STONE RUBBLE. There is no stone on the Presidium (except the Krogan statue).