55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

Makrys wrote...

Guys... do we honestly think Mac Walters and Casey Hudson are brilliant enough to think up the IT though? They alone crafted the end. I am just doubtful that Walters could write something so complicated and brilliant. The guy has not impressed me with his plot writing. I'm beginning to become a bit doubtful of the IT, personally.

Which saddens me...

I believe they are.

Casey has been involved in some games with big game changing moments, NWN and KOTOR are two of the more well known ones.

I mean, you're Revan - a cluey player picks it up as they're playaing - but a lot didn't.

Walters was on Jade Empire - which also threw a big twist when you thought the game was just about over - once again, cluey players saw it coming - but a lot didn't.

I don't know - the way the marketing and interviews just hours before release were going - none of it fit with the ending we got. A real ending coming later seems much more believable than them dropping the ball and ignoring everything that they were saying and that the series was built upon.

Modifié par Icinix, 06 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[BleedingUranium]

dmay7 wrote...

 Ok guys, I took some pics of the breathe scene for analysis of stuff I thought was weird and would like some input.



What is that thing? Is that some sort of stasis pod or something? I honestly have no clue. It seems torpedo shaped. The resolution isn't the greatest, but you will know what I'm talking about if you watch it.


Ok, few things here. First thing on the left, it doesn't look like rubble, but some sort of artificial structure. The thing next to it to me seems like some sort of Reaper Tech, like Dragons Teeth or something like that...which leads to...


Again, apologize for the resolution. If you watch the vid, it looks a lot clearer. First thing is the red thing near the center. It appears to be directly below or on Shepard...and it's red...like Reaper red. When watching the vid, it looked like some kind of running light for a device or something like that. Now the thing on the right, I think that's the building we've been talking about. It looks like smoke here, but by watching the video, it looks more concrete.

Link the a high res vid:
www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

That does look like Big Ben!

[Makrys]

If ya'll could give your best argument for IT summed up as much as possible, within at least a single paragraph, what would it be? I'm genuinely curious.

[FreddyCast]

Makrys wrote...

If ya'll could give your best argument for IT summed up as much as possible, within at least a single paragraph, what would it be? I'm genuinely curious.

The sheer reason why Shepard survives an explosion several football fields big when he is in the dead center of the explosion, and according to the ME3 guide book, Shep lives. Plus, The Catalyst appears as the child that only Shepard saw throughout the whole game. Plus, the very logic that the godbrat uses is the very same logic the Reapers use to indoctrinate people (look at Saren and read the comics). Plus choosing Control and Synthesis gives you undeniably indoctrinated eyes. All this clearly points to something that's very off to anyone who has experienced the ending. Almost as if it is confuzing and dreamlike. Put 2 and 2 together and you the Indoctrination Theory.

[balance5050]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

I really love when Epyon tries to disprove us only to make our belief stronger, You clearly see chunks of the crucible drifiting away from the explosion, sorrry I'm late back to this discussion but I just find his arguments hilarious sometimes....

Modifié par balance5050, 06 juin 2012 - 03:31 .

[FreddyCast]

BleedingUranium wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

 Ok guys, I took some pics of the breathe scene for analysis of stuff I thought was weird and would like some input.



What is that thing? Is that some sort of stasis pod or something? I honestly have no clue. It seems torpedo shaped. The resolution isn't the greatest, but you will know what I'm talking about if you watch it.


Ok, few things here. First thing on the left, it doesn't look like rubble, but some sort of artificial structure. The thing next to it to me seems like some sort of Reaper Tech, like Dragons Teeth or something like that...which leads to...


Again, apologize for the resolution. If you watch the vid, it looks a lot clearer. First thing is the red thing near the center. It appears to be directly below or on Shepard...and it's red...like Reaper red. When watching the vid, it looked like some kind of running light for a device or something like that. Now the thing on the right, I think that's the building we've been talking about. It looks like smoke here, but by watching the video, it looks more concrete.

Link the a high res vid:
www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

That does look like Big Ben!

I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but that does not look even remotely like Big Ben.

[HellishFiend]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

I really love when Epyon tries to disprove us only to make our belief stronger, You clearly see chunks of the crucible drifiting away from the explosion, sorrry I'm late back to this discussion but I just find it his arguments hilarious sometimes....

The only thing that annoys me are those damn pointed questions he asks. I'm sure Anti-ITers wouldnt appreciate it if we went into their topics and started asking questions like "What if all the EC does is make IT more obvious without actually resolving anything?"  or "What if the EC proves Shepard never left London?"

[Makrys]

FreddyCast wrote...

Makrys wrote...

If ya'll could give your best argument for IT summed up as much as possible, within at least a single paragraph, what would it be? I'm genuinely curious.

The sheer reason why Shepard survives an explosion several football fields big when he is in the dead center of the explosion, and according to the ME3 guide book, Shep lives. Plus, The Catalyst appears as the child that only Shepard saw throughout the whole game. Plus, the very logic that the godbrat uses is the very same logic the Reapers use to indoctrinate people (look at Saren and read the comics). Plus choosing Control and Synthesis gives you undeniably indoctrinated eyes. All this clearly points to something that's very off to anyone who has experienced the ending. Almost as if it is confuzing and dreamlike. Put 2 and 2 together and you the Indoctrination Theory.

What is 'indoctrinated eyes'? Never seen them.

[Turbo_J]

BleedingUranium wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

 Ok guys, I took some pics of the breathe scene for analysis of stuff I thought was weird and would like some input.



What is that thing? Is that some sort of stasis pod or something? I honestly have no clue. It seems torpedo shaped. The resolution isn't the greatest, but you will know what I'm talking about if you watch it.


Ok, few things here. First thing on the left, it doesn't look like rubble, but some sort of artificial structure. The thing next to it to me seems like some sort of Reaper Tech, like Dragons Teeth or something like that...which leads to...


Again, apologize for the resolution. If you watch the vid, it looks a lot clearer. First thing is the red thing near the center. It appears to be directly below or on Shepard...and it's red...like Reaper red. When watching the vid, it looked like some kind of running light for a device or something like that. Now the thing on the right, I think that's the building we've been talking about. It looks like smoke here, but by watching the video, it looks more concrete.

Link the a high res vid:
www.youtube.com/watch

Thoughts?

That does look like Big Ben!

You are close, but you are actually circling the space beside the clock tower... look a little to the left

It's visible twice. Once by the mako, and once after - where your shot is focused. I'm trying to clear up my image and then I'll highlight it the best I can.

In the mean time, here is a shot of when the clock first apears. With the smoke/fog, it's hard to see in the motion video.

[NoSpin]

Have a Quest for you guys. Somebody in another thread is saying a ME3 dev was once quoted as saying that the game has a "Luke, I am your father" moment/twist. Anybody else heard/able to confirm this?

[dreamgazer]

Makrys wrote...

If ya'll could give your best argument for IT summed up as much as possible, within at least a single paragraph, what would it be? I'm genuinely curious.

Why not.

I have been actively engaged in film and narrative interpretation for many years now, and several of the elements in the conclusion---and stretched across the entire game---reveal a certain intentionally surreal, purpose-driven nature to them that reeks of a inspection-worthy tone and temper. The language coming out of characters' mouths, the way that conversations have that double-meaning tempo to them, all the way down to the symbolism in the dreams and the evolution of EDI reek of purpose instead of casually-implemented devices. There's a grand design at-work in the game; some of it plays into emotional and intellectual build-up to the catalyst's big choice, but some of it also plays into the darkness creeping into our perception of what's going on around us. When you pair that with the fact that indoctrination slowly crescendos into Mass Effect 3's every conversation, from faint conversations with EDI and Javik to the heavy-hitter components that swell in the second and third act, it becomes clear that it's a prevalent, dark force that's spreading, and something the viewer should point-blank be thinking about when evaluating the game's burgeoning atmosphere. Once you arrive at the conclusion, a pointed hornet's nest of surreal symbolism in itself, you can't help but figure that there's a reason why it all seems very, very intentionally figurative. Why wouldn't it be a plot device that has dominated the narrative since day one, why wouldn't it bookend the entire series, and why wouldn't it be the sucker punch of a twist that has dominated BioWare's games for a long time?

I don't care about the theory, or about the digital clues really. I care about interpreting indoctrination symptoms from what we visibly see as a way of making sense of the conclusion's palpable surreal nature, of the dreams, and of the boy at the beginning of the game. It anchors everything down. There are other ways of interpreting them, and I'm processing those as well, but this makes the most sense when evaluating everything that we've seen and digested all the way back to dealing with Saren and touching the beacon on Eden Prime.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 06 juin 2012 - 04:15 .

[dreamgazer]

In short, rewatch the easy-to-digest twenty-minute video in the first post. That's the mostly surface-level clues, the stuff that normal people could interpret. The rest is compelling noise; the stuff in that video is what's convincing.

[Makrys]

NoSpin wrote...

Have a Quest for you guys. Somebody in another thread is saying a ME3 dev was once quoted as saying that the game has a "Luke, I am your father" moment/twist. Anybody else heard/able to confirm this?

Yep. Was meaning to soon ask about that in here. Does anyone know of this? Could be further possible evidence for IT.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

FreddyCast wrote...

*snip*


That does look like Big Ben!
I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but that does not look even remotely like Big Ben.

I'm not seeing anything remontley like Big Ben.
The "torpedo" object I've got no clue what it is, looks like Reaper tech but beyond that I haven't seen anything like it in the game. Closest thing is "Reaper plates" used in Rachni queen mission and in the Beam structure itself but they're not an exact match.

The "dragon spike" is a Reaper Cable (or a peice of Rebar if you're still in that camp). A dragon's spike is much bigger and cylindrical to a point.

Next to it (to the left of the "cable" and upper right of Shepard" looks like a building in the distance or a shelf of some sort. The column sticking out of the ground looks like more concrete rubble but with an pentagon shape and sticking upwards out of the ground.

The "building" like debris you have circle doesn't look like a building to me. Looks like a piece of metal that's been punched through or warped, probably the closest thing to metallic debris in teh entire breath scene for all we can see of it.

That "red" you have pointed out is (more than likely) blood from Shepard's leg. It's not as bright when you see it in game during the end sequence but I attribute that to the higher quality of the Breath scene video.

Made some outlines of the objects as well, and there is one you somewhat forgot, I'll post it below with my interpretations concerning shapes:





Mystery object #4:

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 06 juin 2012 - 03:49 .

[Makrys]

dreamgazer wrote...

In short, rewatch the easy-to-digest twenty-minute video in the first post. That's the mostly surface-level clues, the stuff that normal people could interpret. The rest is compelling noise; the stuff in that video is what's convincing.

I've seen it many times. And it was the first thing that convinced me of it. However, I'm starting to doubt Bioware's ability... though I still hold hope. 

Why would they take all the steps they've taken with the EC? Did they plan it? If so, why were VA's called back in? And rescheduling of their DLC line up done? It just... doesn't fall into place in some areas. I'm all ears if someone can explain these types of things though.

[dreamgazer]

Makrys wrote...

NoSpin wrote...

Have a Quest for you guys. Somebody in another thread is saying a ME3 dev was once quoted as saying that the game has a "Luke, I am your father" moment/twist. Anybody else heard/able to confirm this?

Yep. Was meaning to soon ask about that in here. Does anyone know of this? Could be further possible evidence for IT.

Playing devil's advocate: revealing that the Reapers' grand design as being somewhat "benevolent" could be considered a weak twist in that vein.

Still, it's not that gut-wrenching of a twist, and BioWare knows how to telegraph those.  If that quote is real, it could be very suggestive.

[Big Bad]

Makrys wrote...

NoSpin wrote...

Have a Quest for you guys. Somebody in another thread is saying a ME3 dev was once quoted as saying that the game has a "Luke, I am your father" moment/twist. Anybody else heard/able to confirm this?

Yep. Was meaning to soon ask about that in here. Does anyone know of this? Could be further possible evidence for IT.

While I don't claim to be the all-knowing authority regarding what the devs have or have not said, I have never heard of this, and I don't believe it's ever been brought up in the 2500+ pages of IT threads we've burned through.  I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though. 

[Arian Dynas]

Makrys wrote...

Guys... do we honestly think Mac Walters and Casey Hudson are brilliant enough to think up the IT though? They alone crafted the end. I am just doubtful that Walters could write something so complicated and brilliant. The guy has not impressed me with his plot writing. I'm beginning to become a bit doubtful of the IT, personally.

Which saddens me...

*cracks his knuckles*

Ok, in defense of our good buddy Mac, let's look at a few things.

One, the idea that Mac Walters and Casey Hudson wrote this alone, just them, with no outside input, is a complete load of crap. Putting aside the fact that Bioware themselves denied this, that the supposed source who put out this idea in the first place denied this, and setting aside the fact that I personally highly doubt Casey Hudson OR Mac Walters are anywhere near that arrogant, consider a few things;

1. There is no way. NONE that it could have possibly made it's way into the script without being seen by the entire writing team, no possibility of it whatsoever. it would have to get past the writing team, the design team, the marketing team, the testers, the test audience AND Dr. Musyka himself without being questioned. I find the odds on that to be long to the point of absurdity.

2.Let's see here, Casey worked on KotOR, famous for what? Oh right a plot twist. Mac is a psychology major, meaning he is capable of understanding the human mind, and knows about mental diseases and processes, in fact I would be willing to bet you the concept of indoctrination was his to begin with.

3. Both have been on board since ME1, they both remain VERY familiar with the series, this literally spits in the face of what they made, they would have to have brain damage to not notice this.

4. The plot writing of Mass Effect, while good, has never been paticularly strong. Mass Effect is driven not by the plot, but by its characters, it is a VERY character driven story in fact, and Mac was involved with alot of that, seeing as he was a major writer in ME 1 and co-lead writer in ME 2.

[balance5050]

HellishFiend wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

I really love when Epyon tries to disprove us only to make our belief stronger, You clearly see chunks of the crucible drifiting away from the explosion, sorrry I'm late back to this discussion but I just find it his arguments hilarious sometimes....

The only thing that annoys me are those damn pointed questions he asks. I'm sure Anti-ITers wouldnt appreciate it if we went into their topics and started asking questions like "What if all the EC does is make IT more obvious without actually resolving anything?"  or "What if the EC proves Shepard never left London?"

I appreciate that he's not a rageaholic, but he still falls into the same traps that most literalist do where they disregard details and handwave it away as laziness or a mistake on the part of the game creators. It was slightly frusterating that he can't admit when he's wrong and just keeps coming up with weak excuses and false information. 

Modifié par balance5050, 06 juin 2012 - 03:51 .

[Riot86]

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

I really love when Epyon tries to disprove us only to make our belief stronger, You clearly see chunks of the crucible drifiting away from the explosion, sorrry I'm late back to this discussion but I just find his arguments hilarious sometimes....

But those chunks aren't from the Crucible as they are clearly way to big. The Crucible would not be much bigger than the red dot I've painted inside the Presidium Ring 



For size comparision:



As stated before, I think those chunks are more likely the flaps at the Citadel's backside. Which got ripped of the Citadel's arms due to the explosion:



However, I still think the Crucible is visible in the endsequence. There is definitely a dark, round object at the base of the beam, which also would match the Crucible's relative size in comparision to the Presidium Ring:




________________________


So and now I think we should really move to another topic. Because in the end - does it  really matter if the Crucible is actually rendered in the ending video or not?

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 03:56 .

[FreddyCast]

Makrys wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

Makrys wrote...

If ya'll could give your best argument for IT summed up as much as possible, within at least a single paragraph, what would it be? I'm genuinely curious.

The sheer reason why Shepard survives an explosion several football fields big when he is in the dead center of the explosion, and according to the ME3 guide book, Shep lives. Plus, The Catalyst appears as the child that only Shepard saw throughout the whole game. Plus, the very logic that the godbrat uses is the very same logic the Reapers use to indoctrinate people (look at Saren and read the comics). Plus choosing Control and Synthesis gives you undeniably indoctrinated eyes. All this clearly points to something that's very off to anyone who has experienced the ending. Almost as if it is confuzing and dreamlike. Put 2 and 2 together and you the Indoctrination Theory.

What is 'indoctrinated eyes'? Never seen them.

i.imgur.com/hOEla.jpg
THIS

[dreamgazer]

Makrys wrote...

Why would they take all the steps they've taken with the EC? Did they plan it? If so, why were VA's called back in? And rescheduling of their DLC line up done? It just... doesn't fall into place in some areas. I'm all ears if someone can explain these types of things though.

Looking at it with the big-reveal theory in mind? They might not have had the time to complete it.  They wanted to execute the idea, but they needed the time to implement it.  A few months, for example.

[HellishFiend]

dreamgazer wrote...

Playing devil's advocate: revealing that the Reapers' grand design as being somewhat "benevolent" could be considered a weak twist in that vein.

Still, it's not that gut-wrenching of a twist, and BioWare knows how to telegraph those.  If that quote is real, it could be very suggestive.

I'm fairly certain that is just Reaper propaganda being used to try and confuse Shepard. Aside from their "claims", we have literally no reason to believe they are carrying out a benevolent purpose. 

[Turbo_J]

Clock tower in breath scene...

Not the greatest res, but you get the idea...



You can see it much clearer if you bindicam or fraps it for yourself.

Now I'm off to reload PRE-London LX to find the clock... and where Shep really is.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 06 juin 2012 - 03:55 .

[balance5050]

Riot86 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Here's the Youtube version

I really love when Epyon tries to disprove us only to make our belief stronger, You clearly see chunks of the crucible drifiting away from the explosion, sorrry I'm late back to this discussion but I just find his arguments hilarious sometimes....

But those chunks aren't from the Crucible as their are cleary way to big. The Crucible would be not bigger than the red dot I've painted inside the Presidium Ring 

snip

For size comparision:

snip

As stated before, I think those chunks aremore likely the flaps at the Citadel's backside. which got ripped of the Citadel's arms due to the explosion:

snip

However, I still think the Crucible is visible in the endsequence. There is definately a dark, round object at the base of the beam, which also would match the Crucible's size in comparision to the Presidium Ring perfetly:

snip


So and now I think we should really move to another topic. Because in the end - does it matter if the Crucible is actually rendered in the ending video or not?

Fact is, those chunks have to be the crucible becasue of the positioning, there's absolutly nothing else it could be becasue there was nothing else on that side of the citadel besides the crucible, the peice may have been made out to be bigger so that they could be easily noticed........

Modifié par balance5050, 06 juin 2012 - 03:54 .