55528 réponses à ce sujet

[UrgentArchengel]

I can definiately see how that's a clock. It could be Big Ben.

[Makrys]

Maybe I'm just in a pissed mood tonight. I'm just frustrated that my favorite gaming company possibly lied flat to my face. I hope I'm wrong, but as of now it looks that way. However, please understand that I did not intend a confrontation, or was looking to argue about anything. That's not what I do. I just didn't expect any of you believed that Bioware didn't lie, and that sort of just through me for a loop. However, know this... I hope to God you all are right. I hope they didn't ****** in my ear and told me it was raining. The EC will determine this. Though its still debatable whether they lied about the current endings taken at face value. But... it matters not with the EC. So, I remain optimistic as I always have been.

Anywho... it's late and I'm tired. And I consider all of you my brother's in arms, even if we disagree in some places. We always do. 
Don't take anything I said, personally. I meant it solely in the sense of a professional discussion. I apologize if it came off as otherwise.
I really love and admire all of ya'lls determination and devotion to both Mass Effect and Bioware. I share the same emotions, but also feel a little betrayed. I'm fully willing to accept Bioware back into my arms if the EC is amazing.
So can we shake hands, make up, and call it night? For me at least.  

[dreamgazer]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Actually, IT isn't really an ending, with EC the "real" ending is to come, and they may've not lied at all. It just really depends on what EC will be.

I've put myself in the situation, and I've figured out a few ways that they could get the indoctrination point across while sticking to the ending of the "theatrical cut". It'd require some work, but, hey, they're definitely putting (have put) some work into it. 

Ultimately, yes: we don't know.  But it's worth sticking around to see what happens, and see how they build on the ending they already have.

And with that, it's past my bedtime. G'night, folks. Be excellent to one another. 

[Rosewind]

Just looks like circled fog to me....

[UrgentArchengel]

dreamgazer wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Actually, IT isn't really an ending, with EC the "real" ending is to come, and they may've not lied at all. It just really depends on what EC will be.

I've put myself in the situation, and I've figured out a few ways that they could get the indoctrination point across while sticking to the ending of the "theatrical cut". It'd require some work, but, hey, they're definitely putting (have put) some work into it. 

Ultimately, yes: we don't know.  But it's worth sticking around to see what happens, and see how they build on the ending they already have.

And with that, it's past my bedtime. G'night, folks. Be excellent to one another. 

I agree, just staring the point.

[Arian Dynas]

Makrys wrote...

Maybe I'm just in a pissed mood tonight. I'm just frustrated that my favorite gaming company possibly lied flat to my face. I hope I'm wrong, but as of now it looks that way. However, please understand that I did not intend a confrontation, or was looking to argue about anything. That's not what I do. I just didn't expect any of you believed that Bioware didn't lie, and that sort of just through me for a loop. However, know this... I hope to God you all are right. I hope they didn't ****** in my ear and told me it was raining. The EC will determine this. Though its still debatable whether they lied about the current endings taken at face value. But... it matters not with the EC. So, I remain optimistic as I always have been.

Anywho... it's late and I'm tired. And I consider all of you my brother's in arms, even if we disagree in some places. We always do. 
Don't take anything I said, personally. I meant it solely in the sense of a professional discussion. I apologize if it came off as otherwise.
I really love and admire all of ya'lls determination and devotion to both Mass Effect and Bioware. I share the same emotions, but also feel a little betrayed. I'm fully willing to accept Bioware back into my arms if the EC is amazing.
So can we shake hands, make up, and call it night? For me at least.  

*offers a comforting hug*

[UrgentArchengel]

Makrys wrote...

Maybe I'm just in a pissed mood tonight. I'm just frustrated that my favorite gaming company possibly lied flat to my face. I hope I'm wrong, but as of now it looks that way. However, please understand that I did not intend a confrontation, or was looking to argue about anything. That's not what I do. I just didn't expect any of you believed that Bioware didn't lie, and that sort of just through me for a loop. However, know this... I hope to God you all are right. I hope they didn't ****** in my ear and told me it was raining. The EC will determine this. Though its still debatable whether they lied about the current endings taken at face value. But... it matters not with the EC. So, I remain optimistic as I always have been.

Anywho... it's late and I'm tired. And I consider all of you my brother's in arms, even if we disagree in some places. We always do. 
Don't take anything I said, personally. I meant it solely in the sense of a professional discussion. I apologize if it came off as otherwise.
I really love and admire all of ya'lls determination and devotion to both Mass Effect and Bioware. I share the same emotions, but also feel a little betrayed. I'm fully willing to accept Bioware back into my arms if the EC is amazing.
So can we shake hands, make up, and call it night? For me at least.  

Hey, siblings fight all the time.  

[balance5050]

Sorry to all, I've been in a mood as well, I know I came of as a rage head. Apologies.

[Big G13]

balance5050 wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

byne wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


He said Mass Effect 3 is the ending of Shepard's story yet. Since there is still more DLC to come, we haven't gotten all of Mass Effect 3 yet have we? This is right now Mass Effect 3, Part 1. Part 2 comes in the summer.

And to those who don't have internet connections? Bioware just forgets them? 

Basically, if you don't have internet, you don't get to see the ending to the trilogy.

Yup, sucks to be them.

But to be honest, if you dont have broadband by now, you're probably used to getting screwed over. BioWare shouldnt be forced to account for the fact that broadband access sucks in America. It isnt their fault.

No, I never get use to being screwed over. And if video companies are going to start setting conditions that require their customers to buy product, equipment,that they don't otherwise need, just to finish a game that I bought in a store, all for the sake of a larger marketing strategy, then they have lost me. And the apparent fact that so many are so willing to be rolled over buy a game company, makes me sad.

YOU'RE NOT GETTING SCREWED OVER! THE EC IS FREE AND YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE AN INTERNET CONNECTION!

I don't have one for my XBOX. The one I do have is barely sufficient to post here but I need it. And as I said yesterday I will find a way to get the EC DLC. I'm speaking to the larger point about MP affecting SP. About needing an Iphone or a data pad. About companies in general requiring the acquisition of one product that you don't need or want to get a product that you do. THAT, and the fact that when someone, no matter how much I like & respect them, suggests that any one who is not in the same position they are is use to getting screwed over,... really pi**** me off. 

[Starbuck8]

Makrys wrote...

Maybe I'm just in a pissed mood tonight. I'm just frustrated that my favorite gaming company possibly lied flat to my face. I hope I'm wrong, but as of now it looks that way. However, please understand that I did not intend a confrontation, or was looking to argue about anything. That's not what I do. I just didn't expect any of you believed that Bioware didn't lie, and that sort of just through me for a loop. However, know this... I hope to God you all are right. I hope they didn't ****** in my ear and told me it was raining. The EC will determine this. Though its still debatable whether they lied about the current endings taken at face value. But... it matters not with the EC. So, I remain optimistic as I always have been.

Anywho... it's late and I'm tired. And I consider all of you my brother's in arms, even if we disagree in some places. We always do. 
Don't take anything I said, personally. I meant it solely in the sense of a professional discussion. I apologize if it came off as otherwise.
I really love and admire all of ya'lls determination and devotion to both Mass Effect and Bioware. I share the same emotions, but also feel a little betrayed. I'm fully willing to accept Bioware back into my arms if the EC is amazing.
So can we shake hands, make up, and call it night? For me at least.  

I think the way you feel is totally understandable. In my eyes, though, the disappointment should be with EA, rushing our game. I couldn't blame BW, unless then EC ends up being just extra cut scenes expounding on the current ending:mellow:

[Makrys]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

As I have been forced to point out multiple times the phrase "Ended the reaper threat" means nothing. They could be referring to the fact that the Reapers are dead, that they left Earth, or that they turned into gigantic globs of icecream. IT MEANS NOTHING. "Ended the Reaper threat" could just as easily mean "Ended the Reaper threat to his own mind, winning the battle against indoctrination."

That would be very deceiving and borderline lying.

Wrong.

No offense, but you have a veiw about lying as naive as that of a friend of mine.

They misrepresented themselves, which is different than lying. Lying is stating things that are patently untrue. Misrepresentation is giving certain implications and allowing your audience to draw incorrect assumptions from that. One is legal in marketing, the other isn't.

You're claiming Bioware is brilliant enough to pull off the EC, yet easily misinterprets themselves with the final message of the game? Right. And personally, you come off as quite naive to think that they haven't lied.

Hudson himself said the end wouldn't be an A, B, C, decision. Oh, wait it was.

Gamble said we wouldn't get a bespoke ending for everyone. The endings were the same barring minor differences.

One, assuming IT all of those statements remain true.

And there is a difference between deception and lying. Is Bioware deciving us? Absolutely. Are they lying to us? No, partially because one is illegal.

You're being even more optimistic than I am. And trust me, that's a feat in and of itself. 

So what you're saying is that they deceived us into thinking the game would have an ending upon release? I've thought of this before, and its the only way I find any of it acceptable.

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

Sorry to all, I've been in a mood as well, I know I came of as a rage head. Apologies.

I still love you, bro. Hug?

[Starbuck8]

Big G13 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

byne wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


He said Mass Effect 3 is the ending of Shepard's story yet. Since there is still more DLC to come, we haven't gotten all of Mass Effect 3 yet have we? This is right now Mass Effect 3, Part 1. Part 2 comes in the summer.

And to those who don't have internet connections? Bioware just forgets them? 

Basically, if you don't have internet, you don't get to see the ending to the trilogy.

Yup, sucks to be them.

But to be honest, if you dont have broadband by now, you're probably used to getting screwed over. BioWare shouldnt be forced to account for the fact that broadband access sucks in America. It isnt their fault.

No, I never get use to being screwed over. And if video companies are going to start setting conditions that require their customers to buy product, equipment,that they don't otherwise need, just to finish a game that I bought in a store, all for the sake of a larger marketing strategy, then they have lost me. And the apparent fact that so many are so willing to be rolled over buy a game company, makes me sad.

YOU'RE NOT GETTING SCREWED OVER! THE EC IS FREE AND YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE AN INTERNET CONNECTION!

I don't have one for my XBOX. The one I do have is barely sufficient to post here but I need it. And as I said yesterday I will find a way to get the EC DLC. I'm speaking to the larger point about MP affecting SP. About needing an Iphone or a data pad. About companies in general requiring the acquisition of one product that you don't need or want to get a product that you do. THAT, and the fact that when someone, no matter how much I like & respect them, suggests that any one who is not in the same position they are is use to getting screwed over,... really pi**** me off. 

Eh, I kinda agree with you on that, it's kind of unscrupulous. Well at least for us Xbox players, who need a Gold subscription. I'm almost ashamed I forked over the $$ for gold, but it was on sale and I liked the MP (used the 2-day free pass to test it out:D).

[Makrys]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

byne wrote...

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I'm not arguing the fact that the IT is true. I'm arguing that Bioware DID lie about the end. As Casey said, they already lied about the ending even without IT.

Why are you complaining though? You're getting the additional ending at no extra charge anyway so what's the schism?

I'm not complaining. Just frustrated that a company I love would lie to sell their product. Is it common practice? Sure. Just never thought Bioware would stoop that low. Assuming they did lie.

So I'm just disapointed, is all.

BioWare claimed there would be a Reapers win ending.

BioWare claimed there would ne no Reaper off-switch.

BioWare claimed it wouldnt be like any tradition ending where you can easily say you got ending A, B, or C.

BioWare claimed the rachni would play a huge part in the game, even in just the final battle.

If you're assuming IT being true means they lied, IT not being true means they lied a hell of a lot more.

No, I'm saying with the IT Bioware still lied about the ending. They lied regardless, is my point. If the IT is true, they still lied. That's all I'm saying.

Here's my 2 cents on the situation:
Well honestly I'm not sure about the timing of all the announcements/trailers/promises leading up to the release, I wasn't paying attention to all that at the time. But I am aware from what people said that BioWare requested a 6 month extension and only got 3. My theory/guess, pure speculation, is that they intended to fulfill all these promises, but couldn't with the time constraints. I think that maybe they did the best with the time they got, and decided to use the time crunch to their advantage the best they could. They cut a lot of content and made the ending amiguous so that they could get the extra time after release to finish the game as they intended, and reveal the indoctrination twist in the EC. They've already had about 3 months and it's looking like they'll end up taking, what, 4-6 months to finish the ending they wanted to deliver.

BTW I have read Arian's theory about the marketing strategy surrounding the release and EC, and I think it's a great analysis, and potentially very close to the truth.

This is what I've always thought TBH. Exactly. To the 'T'.

But, truth in point, some of their statements were made after the game had already gone gold... so that doesn't bode well for this theory. Though it may still hold truth for many of the other statements/promises they made. We can only hope.

[Unschuld]

Starbuck8 wrote...
Eh, I kinda agree with you on that, it's kind of unscrupulous. Well at least for us Xbox players, who need a Gold subscription. I'm almost ashamed I forked over the $$ for gold, but it was on sale and I liked the MP (used the 2-day free pass to test it out:D).

I originally waffled over the decision to get an XBL gold subscription, but eventually caved in. And just for the record, still totally worth it. 

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Sorry to all, I've been in a mood as well, I know I came of as a rage head. Apologies.

I still love you, bro. Hug?

*Hug*

[Starbuck8]

Unschuld wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...
Eh, I kinda agree with you on that, it's kind of unscrupulous. Well at least for us Xbox players, who need a Gold subscription. I'm almost ashamed I forked over the $$ for gold, but it was on sale and I liked the MP (used the 2-day free pass to test it out:D).

I originally waffled over the decision to get an XBL gold subscription, but eventually caved in. And just for the record, still totally worth it. 

Lol I do think it was worth it, at least with the deal I got, about half price for 6 months

[Arian Dynas]

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

As I have been forced to point out multiple times the phrase "Ended the reaper threat" means nothing. They could be referring to the fact that the Reapers are dead, that they left Earth, or that they turned into gigantic globs of icecream. IT MEANS NOTHING. "Ended the Reaper threat" could just as easily mean "Ended the Reaper threat to his own mind, winning the battle against indoctrination."

That would be very deceiving and borderline lying.

Wrong.

No offense, but you have a veiw about lying as naive as that of a friend of mine.

They misrepresented themselves, which is different than lying. Lying is stating things that are patently untrue. Misrepresentation is giving certain implications and allowing your audience to draw incorrect assumptions from that. One is legal in marketing, the other isn't.

You're claiming Bioware is brilliant enough to pull off the EC, yet easily misinterprets themselves with the final message of the game? Right. And personally, you come off as quite naive to think that they haven't lied.

Hudson himself said the end wouldn't be an A, B, C, decision. Oh, wait it was.

Gamble said we wouldn't get a bespoke ending for everyone. The endings were the same barring minor differences.

One, assuming IT all of those statements remain true.

And there is a difference between deception and lying. Is Bioware deciving us? Absolutely. Are they lying to us? No, partially because one is illegal.

You're being even more optimistic than I am. And trust me, that's a feat in and of itself. 

So what you're saying is that they deceived us into thinking the game would have an ending upon release? I've thought of this before, and its the only way I find any of it acceptable.

N-nooo I'm saying they made the statements that they did to make you think "Well, that's EXACTLY what they said they wouldn't do, and in fact they are the ones who put it in exactly those terms. Something is not right here." They deceived you into thinking that this was the ending of the series, rather than the ending of Mass Effect 3, which it is, but this Shepard's story isn't done quite yet, though as you have seen from my script, it could just as easily be that this is where Shepard's involvement in the story ends, since he could just as easily be playing Aragorn to the Crucible's Frodo.

[Rosewind]

Oh get a room all of you, your making me feel sick......

[Starbuck8]

Makrys wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

byne wrote...

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I'm not arguing the fact that the IT is true. I'm arguing that Bioware DID lie about the end. As Casey said, they already lied about the ending even without IT.

Why are you complaining though? You're getting the additional ending at no extra charge anyway so what's the schism?

I'm not complaining. Just frustrated that a company I love would lie to sell their product. Is it common practice? Sure. Just never thought Bioware would stoop that low. Assuming they did lie.

So I'm just disapointed, is all.

BioWare claimed there would be a Reapers win ending.

BioWare claimed there would ne no Reaper off-switch.

BioWare claimed it wouldnt be like any tradition ending where you can easily say you got ending A, B, or C.

BioWare claimed the rachni would play a huge part in the game, even in just the final battle.

If you're assuming IT being true means they lied, IT not being true means they lied a hell of a lot more.

No, I'm saying with the IT Bioware still lied about the ending. They lied regardless, is my point. If the IT is true, they still lied. That's all I'm saying.

Here's my 2 cents on the situation:
Well honestly I'm not sure about the timing of all the announcements/trailers/promises leading up to the release, I wasn't paying attention to all that at the time. But I am aware from what people said that BioWare requested a 6 month extension and only got 3. My theory/guess, pure speculation, is that they intended to fulfill all these promises, but couldn't with the time constraints. I think that maybe they did the best with the time they got, and decided to use the time crunch to their advantage the best they could. They cut a lot of content and made the ending amiguous so that they could get the extra time after release to finish the game as they intended, and reveal the indoctrination twist in the EC. They've already had about 3 months and it's looking like they'll end up taking, what, 4-6 months to finish the ending they wanted to deliver.

BTW I have read Arian's theory about the marketing strategy surrounding the release and EC, and I think it's a great analysis, and potentially very close to the truth.

This is what I've always thought TBH. Exactly. To the 'T'.

But, truth in point, some of their statements were made after the game had already gone gold... so that doesn't bode well for this theory. Though it may still hold truth for many of the other statements/promises they made. We can only hope.

Ah well, hope is all we got right now!

[Makrys]

 Thanks for the hugs, Arian and Balance. 

Its nice to know we can have discussions without hating on eachother. And yes, we are sort of like siblings, Urgent.

Goodnight, all. Look forward to reading anything new tomorrow. 

Modifié par Makrys, 06 juin 2012 - 05:33 .

[Big G13]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

byne wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


He said Mass Effect 3 is the ending of Shepard's story yet. Since there is still more DLC to come, we haven't gotten all of Mass Effect 3 yet have we? This is right now Mass Effect 3, Part 1. Part 2 comes in the summer.

And to those who don't have internet connections? Bioware just forgets them? 

Basically, if you don't have internet, you don't get to see the ending to the trilogy.

Yup, sucks to be them.

But to be honest, if you dont have broadband by now, you're probably used to getting screwed over. BioWare shouldnt be forced to account for the fact that broadband access sucks in America. It isnt their fault.

No, I never get use to being screwed over. And if video companies are going to start setting conditions that require their customers to buy product, equipment,that they don't otherwise need, just to finish a game that I bought in a store, all for the sake of a larger marketing strategy, then they have lost me. And the apparent fact that so many are so willing to be rolled over buy a game company, makes me sad.

YOU'RE NOT GETTING SCREWED OVER! THE EC IS FREE AND YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE AN INTERNET CONNECTION!

I don't have one for my XBOX. The one I do have is barely sufficient to post here but I need it. And as I said yesterday I will find a way to get the EC DLC. I'm speaking to the larger point about MP affecting SP. About needing an Iphone or a data pad. About companies in general requiring the acquisition of one product that you don't need or want to get a product that you do. THAT, and the fact that when someone, no matter how much I like & respect them, suggests that any one who is not in the same position they are is use to getting screwed over,... really pi**** me off. 

Eh, I kinda agree with you on that, it's kind of unscrupulous. Well at least for us Xbox players, who need a Gold subscription. I'm almost ashamed I forked over the $$ for gold, but it was on sale and I liked the MP (used the 2-day free pass to test it out:D).

Thanks, I was venting, and trust me, I would love play MP. But given RL responsibilities, all fun must be budgeted. And new internet or an Iphone or even a cheap datapad are not in the budget.

[Arian Dynas]

Rosewind wrote...

Oh get a room all of you, your making me feel sick......

*TACKLEHUG* 

[Unschuld]

Rosewind wrote...

Oh get a room all of you, your making me feel sick......

You know you want it. It's ok, we understand.

[balance5050]

Big G13 wrote...
I don't have one for my XBOX. The one I do have is barely sufficient to post here but I need it. And as I said yesterday I will find a way to get the EC DLC. I'm speaking to the larger point about MP affecting SP. About needing an Iphone or a data pad. About companies in general requiring the acquisition of one product that you don't need or want to get a product that you do. THAT, and the fact that when someone, no matter how much I like & respect them, suggests that any one who is not in the same position they are is use to getting screwed over,... really pi**** me off. 

Ouch, I understand that it sucks, but it's most of the industry at this point, video games are mainsttream, and the ones that make the most money (WoW, COD) are are online/multiplayer focused...... and over time they water down ideas with rehashes and adnaseum for the sake of selling you entertainment.

Really though, it's just a sea change. The best new games we see are from lesser known companies and / or they are single player driven. I'm going to buy a PS3 just for "The Last of Us" personally, but I have no self control. 

Modifié par balance5050, 06 juin 2012 - 05:35 .