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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#12601
HellishFiend

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UrgentArchengel wrote...

That does it. I am definiately starting to believe IT a hell of a lot more now. First, the gun thing in destroy was quite fishy, but now that it happens to Starbringer in control??? That's the final nail on the coffin for me.


Glad I could help. :happy: 

Big thanks to prettz as well!

Modifié par HellishFiend, 06 juin 2012 - 10:54 .


#12602
Starbuck8

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HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Woah! Nice shot, that definitely looks like him turning corporeal with the shockwave. Kinda creepy.

So we have quite a coincidence of key elements changing instantly when the destroy or control shockwave hits. Coincidental glitches? Or clues?

Would you be able to look for anything similar happening with synthesis? Not really possible for me since I'm on the xbox.


Similar to the gun change, it can not be a glitch. There is no texturing on starbinger in his non-corporeal form. Bioware would have had to add the texturing in specifically for that scene. 


Oh, I wonder if we can find evidence that the textures are loading with the control ending, like you guys did with the Predator in the destroy ending.

#12603
HellishFiend

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Starbuck8 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Woah! Nice shot, that definitely looks like him turning corporeal with the shockwave. Kinda creepy.

So we have quite a coincidence of key elements changing instantly when the destroy or control shockwave hits. Coincidental glitches? Or clues?

Would you be able to look for anything similar happening with synthesis? Not really possible for me since I'm on the xbox.


Similar to the gun change, it can not be a glitch. There is no texturing on starbinger in his non-corporeal form. Bioware would have had to add the texturing in specifically for that scene. 


Oh, I wonder if we can find evidence that the textures are loading with the control ending, like you guys did with the Predator in the destroy ending.


My guess would be yes, though I dont have the PC version, so I cant assist with that. 

#12604
UrgentArchengel

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If we can find evidence for the control ending, much like destroy, do you all think we may have finally found our "Definitive, Undeniable Proof"?

#12605
Corik

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UrgentArchengel wrote...

If we can find evidence for the control ending, much like destroy, do you all think we may have finally found our "Definitive, Undeniable Proof"?


Definitive, Undeniable Proof will be Bioware saying IT is true. Bioware is great but they can screw everything if they want. (Just in case, I believe IT is true. The patterns are there, buried in the data).

#12606
HellishFiend

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UrgentArchengel wrote...

If we can find evidence for the control ending, much like destroy, do you all think we may have finally found our "Definitive, Undeniable Proof"?


The "proof" relies on agreeing with the symbolism in both cases, so it cant be considered undeniable. Symbolism can always be rejected since it is simply a subjective interpretation. 

It is possible though that I'm wrong about the texturing not being loaded for Starbingers non-corporeal form. It could potentially be there, but just be hidden by whatever graphical process is causing him to appear non-corporeal. In any case, I do stand by my statement that it has to be an intentional move to make him corporeal and colored in that specific moment. 

#12607
Starbuck8

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UrgentArchengel wrote...

If we can find evidence for the control ending, much like destroy, do you all think we may have finally found our "Definitive, Undeniable Proof"?


For me, I dunno, I feel less swayed by weird graphics and coding things...

This change in starbinger, can those who took the screen shots confirm for me if is it visible with the normal view the game gives you, without flycamming? If yes, and if we do find the game loading textures like in destroy... i might, maybe it depends on what other opinions are for those who know more about how the game's internals work as far as the coding and game design.

#12608
Turbo_J

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HellishFiend wrote...

I just viewed the codex entry on the Cain, and it refers to it as a "particle accelerator", and goes on to talk about generating mass effect fields that have a shearing force. The shearing force is supposedly what causes the archetypical "mushroom cloud" explosion.

That is not what we see being used against the Hades Cannon Reaper.

In addition, I cannot find an entry on "Thanix Missiles" in the codex at all.

The idea that the majority of London was part of the hallucination is starting to seem more realistic.


They really just apeared out of nowhere. Good call on checking the Codex. I'm usually better at that, but honestly, didn't even think about it. I guess it's the trick of the familar name...

Also, I remember why I thought the weapon bench bob was a bug. My Cannon Shep is a Vanguard and I noticed that if you charge just before a cut scene it can mess with the game, causing some cinimatic scenes to play in slow motion (due to the mini bullet time effect after charge) and in other cases it can cause a bob (when combat play picks up after a cut scene if you hit charge just before a cut scene began... just hit the space bar at the end of a change and you'll see what I mean about the bob effect.

However, in London, it's just there. There is no oportunity for this charge bug to be the cause of the bench feeling like it's on an ocean liner.

#12609
UrgentArchengel

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Okay, maybe I jumped the gun a bit there. Just excited, I always get excited with cool new things you guys find.

#12610
Lyria

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It would be interesting if the hallucination started at/slightly before London.
Im thinking Shepard didn't wake from that last dream.

#12611
HellishFiend

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Starbuck8 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

If we can find evidence for the control ending, much like destroy, do you all think we may have finally found our "Definitive, Undeniable Proof"?


For me, I dunno, I feel less swayed by weird graphics and coding things...

This change in starbinger, can those who took the screen shots confirm for me if is it visible with the normal view the game gives you, without flycamming? If yes, and if we do find the game loading textures like in destroy... i might, maybe it depends on what other opinions are for those who know more about how the game's internals work as far as the coding and game design.


The original screenshot I took from the youtube video is of the "normal view" from the game. The upper body opacity and coloring are much more visible in that shot. The texturing is much more visible in the flycammed shot from prettz, though. 

#12612
Starbuck8

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HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

If we can find evidence for the control ending, much like destroy, do you all think we may have finally found our "Definitive, Undeniable Proof"?


For me, I dunno, I feel less swayed by weird graphics and coding things...

This change in starbinger, can those who took the screen shots confirm for me if is it visible with the normal view the game gives you, without flycamming? If yes, and if we do find the game loading textures like in destroy... i might, maybe it depends on what other opinions are for those who know more about how the game's internals work as far as the coding and game design.


The original screenshot I took from the youtube video is of the "normal view" from the game. The upper body opacity and coloring are much more visible in that shot. The texturing is much more visible in the flycammed shot from prettz, though. 


Interesting. I think it holds more sway as a clue because they are actually visible to the player (of course if you're really looking/paying attention/not blinking lol)

#12613
HellishFiend

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Alright, I'm not one to typically announce when I'm leaving, but I do need to get some sleep. I'll catch up on any further developments on these two finds and chime in again tomorrow.

Happy speculating!

#12614
Starbuck8

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Turbo_J wrote...

Yeah, but add in the 'I was born in London...' Blank, or doubtful stare.

Wrex and wanting to name a girl Mordin on Tuchanka claims it's Bakara's idea at the LZ and he 'doesn't know why' she would want to??

Liara: Nuff said... just empty, useless, blank, gift?

Everyone is depressing. James and Tali may be the exceptions.

The QEC lol - and the godly phonebook - I can't go fight right now - Shep could call any minute.

The vacancy of the entire push.

Not sure what to make of the Wrex/Wrev scene, other than 'oh crap' or 'oh good' but I swear the scene changes slightly the higher my EMS is... Wrex seems to get out in some and gets engulfed in the blast in others.

That scene is not something Shep possibly could see or know about... it's something only the player could see. Something to kick the player in the gut with.

There is more even before the beam run... that datapad in the hospital area about the voices in the back of the authors head that won't shut up... can't believe people don't see that as a freakin indoctrination beakon! - could be Sheps subconcious.


This hallucination beginning in London stuff is intriguing. I'm almost there in my 2nd playthru, so I'm going to be paying close attention. And lol the QEC was too much like :wizard: for me when I first played thru. But I can see why they put it in there, so you can see those characters not in your squad one last time... eh idk could have been done better. Lets hope that's a hallucination lol

Oh yeah and that datapad felt really random being there... it does kind of stick out like its some kind of clue...

Modifié par Starbuck8, 06 juin 2012 - 11:15 .


#12615
Turbo_J

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The Real TIM

Posted Image

Anybody who thinks that is TIM on the Citadel was not paying attention on Mars.

Look at

Hair - more gray - and poofy
Eyes - different blue when not behind a QEC
Face - Old, haggard. Age not hidden by the QEC

Shep sees Tim on the Citadel the same way TIM appears over a QEC

Legion: 'You form images of our memories by using your own.'

Modifié par Turbo_J, 06 juin 2012 - 11:19 .


#12616
Corik

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The QEC thing could give some back up to a more literal explanation of the ending. However, I think it's a veeeeery bad way to do it. I can't believe the hallucination started before Harby's beam. That would be too much time for a hallucination.

I know they may be things a little weird during London. For example, the shoot from the Cain against Hades Cannon. I think that was like it was because of gameplay mechanics. You only have one shot with the cain and you have to shot down the Hades Cannon. I think the cannon is more an Easter Egg than other thing (Who didn't asked about why they can't use the Cain as a weapon like in ME2? I did)

#12617
Corik

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Turbo_J wrote...

The Real TIM



Anybody who thinks that is TIM on the Citadel was not paying attention on Mars.

Look at

Hair - more gray
Eyes - different blue when not behind a QEC
Face - Old, haggard. Age not hidden by the QEC

Shep sees Tim on the Citadel the same way TIM appears over a QEC

Legion: 'You form images of our memories by using your own.'


Makes sense. A lot. Why making 2 models of TIM?

Modifié par Corik, 06 juin 2012 - 11:19 .


#12618
Big G13

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Starbuck8 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Yeah, but add in the 'I was born in London...' Blank, or doubtful stare.

Wrex and wanting to name a girl Mordin on Tuchanka claims it's Bakara's idea at the LZ and he 'doesn't know why' she would want to??

Liara: Nuff said... just empty, useless, blank, gift?

Everyone is depressing. James and Tali may be the exceptions.

The QEC lol - and the godly phonebook - I can't go fight right now - Shep could call any minute.

The vacancy of the entire push.

Not sure what to make of the Wrex/Wrev scene, other than 'oh crap' or 'oh good' but I swear the scene changes slightly the higher my EMS is... Wrex seems to get out in some and gets engulfed in the blast in others.

That scene is not something Shep possibly could see or know about... it's something only the player could see. Something to kick the player in the gut with.

There is more even before the beam run... that datapad in the hospital area about the voices in the back of the authors head that won't shut up... can't believe people don't see that as a freakin indoctrination beakon! - could be Sheps subconcious.


This hallucination beginning in London stuff is intriguing. I'm almost there in my 2nd playthru, so I'm going to be paying close attention. And lol the QEC was too much like :wizard: for me when I first played thru. But I can see why they put it in there, so you can see those characters not in your squad one last time... eh idk could have been done better. Lets hope that's a hallucination lol

Oh yeah and that datapad felt really random being there... it does kind of stick out like its some kind of clue...

Yeah, that whole 'call all my friends so I can say goodbye' thing seemed alittle flat. In fact every thing in that base seemed misplaced somehow.

#12619
Starbuck8

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Turbo_J wrote...

The Real TIM
snip


Oh, add a pic right underneath of TIM from the citadel for a good comparison to nail it home ;)

#12620
Turbo_J

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It's nice to finally share and have it taken seriously. I've been hanging on to all this info for months - just mentally tired of trying to explain it, I figured why bother.

I could add 20 pages worth of this crap in support of indoctrination. I guess when I found and announced that the park at the beginning didn't even exist and nobody seemed to care, I figured nothing else I had to say would matter either.

#12621
Starbuck8

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Corik wrote...

The QEC thing could give some back up to a more literal explanation of the ending. However, I think it's a veeeeery bad way to do it. I can't believe the hallucination started before Harby's beam. That would be too much time for a hallucination.

I know they may be things a little weird during London. For example, the shoot from the Cain against Hades Cannon. I think that was like it was because of gameplay mechanics. You only have one shot with the cain and you have to shot down the Hades Cannon. I think the cannon is more an Easter Egg than other thing (Who didn't asked about why they can't use the Cain as a weapon like in ME2? I did)


Yeah, I think the "bad writing" argument is a little more plausible for some of the London stuff since it's not as egregious, or significant, as the game's ending. Maybe we are finding more clues in London because we're getting close to the end, and they're trying to clue us into the indoctrination. Or maybe it is a hallucination. The speculation and investigation sure is fun ^_^

#12622
Starbuck8

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Turbo_J wrote...

It's nice to finally share and have it taken seriously. I've been hanging on to all this info for months - just mentally tired of trying to explain it, I figured why bother.

I could add 20 pages worth of this crap in support of indoctrination. I guess when I found and announced that the park at the beginning didn't even exist and nobody seemed to care, I figured nothing else I had to say would matter either.


Lol was it you that recently posted the pics of the park not being there/burnt? (saw that when catching up with this thread before joining in) I thought that was pretty significant.

#12623
MaximizedAction

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Turbo_J wrote...

It's nice to finally share and have it taken seriously. I've been hanging on to all this info for months - just mentally tired of trying to explain it, I figured why bother.

I could add 20 pages worth of this crap in support of indoctrination. I guess when I found and announced that the park at the beginning didn't even exist and nobody seemed to care, I figured nothing else I had to say would matter either.


Sorry, if it seems that way, but I think that everybody's post will be uncommented from time to time. But that doesn't mean we don't acknowledge them. I can say that I read most posts but don't comment on all, no matter what content.

EDIT: prettz posted it first.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 06 juin 2012 - 11:47 .


#12624
Arian Dynas

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Turbo_J wrote...

The Real TIM

*snip*

Anybody who thinks that is TIM on the Citadel was not paying attention on Mars.

Look at

Hair - more gray - and poofy
Eyes - different blue when not behind a QEC
Face - Old, haggard. Age not hidden by the QEC

Shep sees Tim on the Citadel the same way TIM appears over a QEC

Legion: 'You form images of our memories by using your own.'


Hokay, congratulations, you've blown my mind. Even if I don't agree with the assesment about the London mission (I've already offered a few explanations of the Thanix missles for instance.) THIS is a really good find.

#12625
paxxton

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Turbo_J wrote...

The Real TIM

Posted Image

*snip*

LOL. He looks like a drunken junkie on that screenshot. Explains his remark "Like all the relics in this place..."

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 11:40 .