55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?
That anderson looked suspiciously at shepard because shepard was looking indocrinated and not he other way around?
Wrex was being sarcastic as usual?


Of course maybe im worng. But thats just how i see thigs. I just dont was to go to far into the rabbit hole. Pretty soon people will start saying all of me3 was  a halluciniation.

We got a good and clear IT starting point already.

On the first bit, that is what I have thought, without contention, up until this point. But there are many strong points that suggest it might be a full-on hallucination. I dont think we have enough to draw a complete conclusion the way we do with traditional IT, but it is a possibility that is certainly on the table. 

On the second bit, closing off your mind to further possibilities is just deciding to shut off the part of your mind that allowed you to accept IT in the first place.

Besides, I said way back in the first topic somewhere, that there should be no limits or bounds on our speculations. I, for one, believe that no matter what, Bioware is going to hit us with things that we wont see coming. The more speculations and predictions we come up with, the bigger the chance that we get some of them right. They dont all have to be right. 

[Turbo_J]

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?
That anderson looked suspiciously at shepard because shepard was looking indocrinated and not he other way around?
Wrex was being sarcastic as usual?

I don't think indoctrinated is visible.

Not for the person whose indoctrination, but for observers (anderson) it sometimes is. 

Freaky... I got the feeling that both Anderson and Hackett may have been doing that to Shep on the Normandy just before Priority Earth... like they were trolling her... actually smart enough to use her as a diversion. It's just the way Hackett talks in that scene that rubs me the wrong way.

However, on the Shuttle, it looked like Shep was giving Anderson the doubt Pout; suspicious eye.

[paxxton]

Anyway, Anderson rolling his eyes in London looked as if he didn't want anyone to see that he was worried or he was checking on Shepard to see if he didn't figure out that something wasn't right.

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 04:57 .

[paxxton]

Turbo_J wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?
That anderson looked suspiciously at shepard because shepard was looking indocrinated and not he other way around?
Wrex was being sarcastic as usual?

I don't think indoctrinated is visible.

Not for the person whose indoctrination, but for observers (anderson) it sometimes is. 

Freaky... I got the feeling that both Anderson and Hackett may have been doing that to Shep on the Normandy just before Priority Earth... like they were trolling her... actually smart enough to use her as a diversion. It's just the way Hackett talks in that scene that rubs me the wrong way.

However, on the Shuttle, it looked like Shep was giving Anderson the doubt Pout; suspicious eye.

Shepard could have been possessed. Did you notice how his head twisted more than 90 degrees when he shaked hands with Hackett on the Normandy?

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 05:01 .

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

Shepard could indeed have been possessed. Did you notice how his head almost twist more than 90 degrees when he shaked hands with Hackett on the Normandy?

Head twisting is a glitch in the "auto head movement engine" that me3 uses....  Cant use that as evidence for anything...

[Riot86]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?

That is of course a possibility. And to be honest, I actually still think the final Indoctrination attempt starts right after Harbinger's beam as stated in ACAVYOS "classic" vid on IT for example 

But since I actually haven't finished the game yet (I'm right before Chronos Station) and just used the info about the IT I gathered on Parabolee's blog, YT, BSN, etc. to develop my theory on the possibility of Priority: Earth taking place completly in Shepards head...well, I'm in no way able to form a final conclussion here - it is just an quick idea, nothing more at this point.

(And just in case you are curious - the controvery concerning the ending and especially the IT itself were the sole reason I bought the whole ME Series in the first place a few month ago )

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 05:05 .

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

Anyway, Anderson rolling his eyes in London looked as if he didn't want anyone to see that he was worried or he was checking on Shepard to see if he didn't figure out that something wasn't right.

If it's not a hallucination, then Anderson and Coats might be Reaper double agents. Hence, this cinematically common eye roll.

If it's all a hallucination, then this Anderson might be Shepard's mind still fighting and represents the resisting side we later see on the Citadel dialog.
OR, if it's hallucination, how about something like Futurama's episode where Fry/Leela gets stung by a space bee?

[llbountyhunter]

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?
That anderson looked suspiciously at shepard because shepard was looking indocrinated and not he other way around?
Wrex was being sarcastic as usual?


Of course maybe im worng. But thats just how i see thigs. I just dont was to go to far into the rabbit hole. Pretty soon people will start saying all of me3 was  a halluciniation.

We got a good and clear IT starting point already.

On the first bit, that is what I have thought, without contention, up until this point. But there are many strong points that suggest it might be a full-on hallucination. I dont think we have enough to draw a complete conclusion the way we do with traditional IT, but it is a possibility that is certainly on the table. 

On the second bit, closing off your mind to further possibilities is just deciding to shut off the part of your mind that allowed you to accept IT in the first place.

Besides, I said way back in the first topic somewhere, that there should be no limits or bounds on our speculations. I, for one, believe that no matter what, Bioware is going to hit us with things that we wont see coming. The more speculations and predictions we come up with, the bigger the chance that we get some of them right. They dont all have to be right. 

There should the speculation, but there should also bounds on speculation. Need a middle ground. IT is that middle point. IMO.

I will consider the new idea if it gets the same compelling evidence as IT. 

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Shepard could indeed have been possessed. Did you notice how his head almost twist more than 90 degrees when he shaked hands with Hackett on the Normandy?

Head twisting is a glitch in the "auto head movement engine" that me3 uses....  Cant use that as evidence for anything...

I suspected so.  But what if...

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 05:02 .

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?
That anderson looked suspiciously at shepard because shepard was looking indocrinated and not he other way around?
Wrex was being sarcastic as usual?


Of course maybe im worng. But thats just how i see thigs. I just dont was to go to far into the rabbit hole. Pretty soon people will start saying all of me3 was  a halluciniation.

We got a good and clear IT starting point already.

On the first bit, that is what I have thought, without contention, up until this point. But there are many strong points that suggest it might be a full-on hallucination. I dont think we have enough to draw a complete conclusion the way we do with traditional IT, but it is a possibility that is certainly on the table. 

On the second bit, closing off your mind to further possibilities is just deciding to shut off the part of your mind that allowed you to accept IT in the first place.

Besides, I said way back in the first topic somewhere, that there should be no limits or bounds on our speculations. I, for one, believe that no matter what, Bioware is going to hit us with things that we wont see coming. The more speculations and predictions we come up with, the bigger the chance that we get some of them right. They dont all have to be right. 

Perfect logic right there.

No boundries, no limits to the imagination. The first thing you do when engaging in scientific discovery is throw away the 'guidlines' or 'laws' that preexpose discovery to the limits such things impose.

[HellishFiend]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Shepard could indeed have been possessed. Did you notice how his head almost twist more than 90 degrees when he shaked hands with Hackett on the Normandy?

Head twisting is a glitch in the "auto head movement engine" that me3 uses....  Cant use that as evidence for anything...

I should add that the "Citadel: The Return" ending sequence is one of the few times where the auto head movement engine is not used. All movement is choreographed in those scenes. That's why we can use things like Anderson looking at the camera when saying "They're controlling YOU!" as evidence.

Anytime something is not being actively choreographed, we really cant cite it one way or the other for or against IT.

[Rosewind]

Turbo_J wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Think it is also odd that Shepard is more nervous and unsettled about Cronos Station then earth

There are places/missions where Shepards breathing gets heavy even when at rest/standing still. (not running). I noticed it at Cronos first on my second playthrough. It's not random, but it is based on dialog choices and actions just before missions I think. I've played Cronos a number of times and it does not happen in all cases. (different Shepards.)

I think I'm up to 5 occurences, all different missions and Shepards.

Most recently, it happend on Tuchanka. Wrex was alive and Bakara was fine, but I still withheld the sabatague until confessing to Mordin. It freaks me out when my sheps do that because in some cases I don't know what actions in conversation caused it.

Thats not what I meant, I meant about the romance cut scene or lack of in some cases. Shepard just seems worried but why for Chronos but not Earth? And why do they have the romance scene here and not after story wise it seems more fitting to have it before earth  ala we all going to die soon style.

Edit: Also thats when the last dream happens.....

Modifié par Rosewind, 06 juin 2012 - 05:04 .

[EpyonX3]

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 - I'm not sure if you're still around at the moment or not, but I had a question from a discussion earlier in the day that I was hoping to ask you (I was at work at the time and could only lurk).

Earlier you said that you think the EC will mostly just be adding scenes that were cut either after they were "filmed" or before. I'm curious what you think about Casey Hudson's tweet about how if the fans only knew what BW had planned, their reaction to the end would be different. Obviously that says nothing specific about IT, but to me it sure seems to be implying that BW has had something up their sleeve since day one. What's your interpretation?

I saw your replies to lex0r regarding who actually said that. To me this further implies that they have additional content that explains some of the missing events in the ending like why joker was running away, the crew got on the normandy, what happened to the rest of the galaxy and how will people get home.

That quote is more Gamble admitting that there's additional content that makes the ending better. This could be IT or it could be what I'm thinking of. I always leave a possibility for me to be wrong. I just think it's more likely that they cut things out for whatever, maybe certain elements could be completed in time, and now they have to go ahead from EA to continue what they wanted to finish.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Shepard could indeed have been possessed. Did you notice how his head almost twist more than 90 degrees when he shaked hands with Hackett on the Normandy?

Head twisting is a glitch in the "auto head movement engine" that me3 uses....  Cant use that as evidence for anything...

I should add that the "Citadel: The Return" ending sequence is one of the few times where the auto head movement engine is not used. All movement is choreographed in those scenes. That's why we can use things like Anderson looking at the camera when saying "They're controlling YOU!" as evidence.

Anytime something is not being actively choreographed, we really cant cite it one way or the other for or against IT.

I'm still not convinced by that "Anderson looking in the camera" thing. It might be just a coincidence when he was moving his eyes and their line of sight crossed the camera.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


On the first bit, that is what I have thought, without contention, up until this point. But there are many strong points that suggest it might be a full-on hallucination. I dont think we have enough to draw a complete conclusion the way we do with traditional IT, but it is a possibility that is certainly on the table. 

On the second bit, closing off your mind to further possibilities is just deciding to shut off the part of your mind that allowed you to accept IT in the first place.

Besides, I said way back in the first topic somewhere, that there should be no limits or bounds on our speculations. I, for one, believe that no matter what, Bioware is going to hit us with things that we wont see coming. The more speculations and predictions we come up with, the bigger the chance that we get some of them right. They dont all have to be right. 

Perfect logic right there.

No boundries, no limits to the imagination. The first thing you do when engaging in scientific discovery is throw away the 'guidlines' or 'laws' that preexpose discovery to the limits such things impose.

My thoughts exactly. The same concept applies to literary discovery. Historic literary works of art are still being speculated on hundreds of years after their creation. ME3 just might very well be a groundbreaking title that goes down in history as the first great "work of art" within the videogaming medium. Especially if IT runs as deep as we think it might. 

[llbountyhunter]

Turbo_J wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?
That anderson looked suspiciously at shepard because shepard was looking indocrinated and not he other way around?
Wrex was being sarcastic as usual?


Of course maybe im worng. But thats just how i see thigs. I just dont was to go to far into the rabbit hole. Pretty soon people will start saying all of me3 was  a halluciniation.

We got a good and clear IT starting point already.

On the first bit, that is what I have thought, without contention, up until this point. But there are many strong points that suggest it might be a full-on hallucination. I dont think we have enough to draw a complete conclusion the way we do with traditional IT, but it is a possibility that is certainly on the table. 

On the second bit, closing off your mind to further possibilities is just deciding to shut off the part of your mind that allowed you to accept IT in the first place.

Besides, I said way back in the first topic somewhere, that there should be no limits or bounds on our speculations. I, for one, believe that no matter what, Bioware is going to hit us with things that we wont see coming. The more speculations and predictions we come up with, the bigger the chance that we get some of them right. They dont all have to be right. 

Perfect logic right there.

No boundries, no limits to the imagination. The first thing you do when engaging in scientific discovery is throw away the 'guidlines' or 'laws' that preexpose discovery to the limits such things impose.

No limits on imagination is good. But having no limits on what you seriously think is real is  insanity.

Speculation needs a solid foundation.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

I'm still not convinced by that "Anderson looking in the camera" thing. It might be just a coincidence when he was moving his eyes and their line of sight crossed the camera.

Nothing is a coincidence in Citadel: The Return. Bioware explicitly stated that it is "choreographed down to the second". Theyve also specifically mentioned eye movement and camera perspective as things they use as storytelling devices. 

[HellishFiend]

llbountyhunter wrote...

No limits on imagination is good. But having no limits on what you seriously think is real is  insanity.

Speculation needs a solid foundation.

You're confusing speculation on reality with literary analysis. You can be as ridiculous as you want with literary analysis and it will never be considered insanity. 

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Anyway, Anderson rolling his eyes in London looked as if he didn't want anyone to see that he was worried or he was checking on Shepard to see if he didn't figure out that something wasn't right.

If it's not a hallucination, then Anderson and Coats might be Reaper double agents. Hence, this cinematically common eye roll.

If it's all a hallucination, then this Anderson might be Shepard's mind still fighting and represents the resisting side we later see on the Citadel dialog.
OR, if it's hallucination, how about something like Futurama's episode where Fry/Leela gets stung by a space bee?

What do you mean a common cinematic eye roll?
In a hallucination what purpose would Coats serve?

[Rosewind]

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

No limits on imagination is good. But having no limits on what you seriously think is real is  insanity.

Speculation needs a solid foundation.

You're confusing speculation on reality with literary analysis. You can be as ridiculous as you want with literary analysis and it will never be considered insanity. 

Lol you sure about that?

[Rosewind]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Anyway, Anderson rolling his eyes in London looked as if he didn't want anyone to see that he was worried or he was checking on Shepard to see if he didn't figure out that something wasn't right.

If it's not a hallucination, then Anderson and Coats might be Reaper double agents. Hence, this cinematically common eye roll.

If it's all a hallucination, then this Anderson might be Shepard's mind still fighting and represents the resisting side we later see on the Citadel dialog.
OR, if it's hallucination, how about something like Futurama's episode where Fry/Leela gets stung by a space bee?

What do you mean a common cinematic eye roll?
In a hallucination what purpose would Coats serve?

A tether for Harby to influence directly like the child?

[HellishFiend]

Rosewind wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You're confusing speculation on reality with literary analysis. You can be as ridiculous as you want with literary analysis and it will never be considered insanity. 

Lol you sure about that?

Yes, I'm quite sure. 

[llbountyhunter]

HellishFiend wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

No limits on imagination is good. But having no limits on what you seriously think is real is  insanity.

Speculation needs a solid foundation.

You're confusing speculation on reality with literary analysis. You can be as ridiculous as you want with literary analysis and it will never be considered insanity. 

Same concept applies in order to be take seriously. 

[Turbo_J]

Rosewind wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Think it is also odd that Shepard is more nervous and unsettled about Cronos Station then earth

There are places/missions where Shepards breathing gets heavy even when at rest/standing still. (not running). I noticed it at Cronos first on my second playthrough. It's not random, but it is based on dialog choices and actions just before missions I think. I've played Cronos a number of times and it does not happen in all cases. (different Shepards.)

I think I'm up to 5 occurences, all different missions and Shepards.

Most recently, it happend on Tuchanka. Wrex was alive and Bakara was fine, but I still withheld the sabatague until confessing to Mordin. It freaks me out when my sheps do that because in some cases I don't know what actions in conversation caused it.

Thats not what I meant, I meant about the romance cut scene or lack of in some cases. Shepard just seems worried but why for Chronos but not Earth? And why do they have the romance scene here and not after story wise it seems more fitting to have it before earth  ala we all going to die soon style.

Edit: Also thats when the last dream happens.....

Very early on I thought it all started at Cronos, but it doesn't work; even though the creaking... damn is it similar to the breath scene. Still, it does no work. No concrete, no clock tower; unless you find a pic of one in there somewhere.

The Reaper baby corpse could be a definite catalyst (like what I did there) but, almost like; Harbi's special marinade cycle before the main indoctrination grilling.

Now I'm hungry... 'and a little thirsty.'

[Riot86]

llbountyhunter wrote...

No limits on imagination is good. But having no limits on what you seriously think is real is  insanity.

Speculation needs a solid foundation.

That's true.

Otherwise we might not even be able to tell, if Shep ever woke up after getting hit by the table in the opening sequence. But since there are no clues that indicate that he is dreaming afterwards, we come to the logical conclussion, that he MUST be awake.

But for the Priority: Earth part on the other hand, there might actually be such clues (the Cain, the shaking Crosshair, the copy of the Conduit run from ME 1) which could indicate, that these scenes aren't real, even before getting hit by Harbinger. So here we have a foundation for specaluation.

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 05:15 .