55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Both of his arms are a bloody mess. The reason it's seen better in that scene is because Bioware raised the level of detail. It gets raised slowly as the scene progresses. I posted pictures before. Let me know if you'd like to see them.

Blood starts spilling from the wound. The camera focuses very clearly on it for emphasis once Shepard slumps onto the circular thing at the center, and you see it coat Shepard's arm afterwards once s/he starts stumbling towards the console. Whether it's for emotional impact or surreal suggestion is another argument altogether, but there'a s significant shift in the integrity of the wound after the gunfire sequence.

The arm-holding shouldn't be given too much credence, as it's a stock "I'm hurt" motion across all three games. The pronounced increase in trauma of the wound after the Anderson shot, however, is very noticeable ... to a point where it's pretty obvious that it's intended.

There's no wound there that we can see. there isn't even a hole in his armor for blood to be spilling out.




His arms are covered in blood before he holds his wound for the last time.



There isn't a clear wound here either and his armor isn't shining with blood like his arms are. The blood is coming from his arms.

This is a perfect example for why flycams are unrealiable for proving anything. This isn't a motion picture. All the details have to be artificially created and though of beforehand. The developers are mostly concerned with what is shown during the normal course of the game. If they were to design every detail - even what is not visible - the cost and feasibility of producing a game would be unbearable. The game soesn't process the wound data structures until they are needed to save resources (CPU, memory).

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 06:08 .

[HellishFiend]

saintstc wrote...

Hey guys,

I'm a supporter of the IT theory, but I don't really understand how the the Normandy crashing into the jungle planet at the end fits in. Is this part of the hallucination? If so what do you think it means?

Thanks

The common belief is that it is part of Shepard's optimisic vision for a happy ending for his crewmates. He believes that regardless of his choice, he is going to die, and he wants to picture a scenario where his crewmembers wind up safe and sound. 

As ACAVYOS's video says, they are "images of hope for peace, unity, survival". 

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

Yes, you can quite clearly see the bullet hole in that shot. I thought that was common knowledge?

Still, Shep looks at the hand (blood on the hand - as if showing it to the camera -, not the wound.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

Anyone wonder why people don't remember this line?

"You stole the Normandy, got blown up by the collectors AND sent us to a suicide mission to the galactic core and I haven't mutinied once. Not once!"

Why would Joker 180 at the end. ME2 FemShep voice: "It Doesn't Make Sense!"

He wouldnt. We all know that.  Not even pro-enders have a solid postulation for it; they are just counting on a good face-value EC explanation for why he does it. 

[dreamgazer]

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

(shrug)

I see a person holding a wound with their hand, looking down at the impact point, seeing a significant increase in blood for emphasis, covering it back up with said hand, and looking back at the chaos over Earth---and it's emphasis that the game has not directly placed on the wound beforehand.  Don't know what else to tell you.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


There's no wound there that we can see. there isn't even a hole in his armor for blood to be spilling out.



His arms are covered in blood before he holds his wound for the last time.


There isn't a clear wound here either and his armor isn't shining with blood like his arms are. The blood is coming from his arms.

To be clear, what point are you trying to make, exactly? Because you seem to be pointing out oddities that in my eyes, just contribute to the concept that the scene is not real. Could you address the fact that Anderson has no wound or blood whatsoever? Why does he die and Shepard doesnt? Why isnt there any blood from TIM's suicide? 

To my knowledge, this is the first time we see anyone bleeding out in Mass Effect. There are no blood pools and the closest we've seen blood on a character was jacob. So the player normally wouldn't pick up on it since they don't expect it to be there.

But to portrey Shepard's condition, his model needed to show the blood as much as possible.

And my point is that if bioware staged everything down to the second for IT, then they contradict themselves if part of IT is that Shepard's "wound" comes after shooting anderson.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

Not...? Shepards eyes have been forward since he got up or looking at TIM/Anderson.

We get a specific shot of Shepard clucthing his side, looking down and seeing gushing blood with a close up of his blood covered hand, fresh blood might I add. If He/she was bleeding like that the entire time since getting hit i doubt Shepard would have gotten anywhere near the controls before passing out from blood loss.

Also how should Shepard ahve gotten the wound? Harbinger hits near him with a beam fo fiery death, not a gun shot like the wound seems to be and Marauder Shields hits Shepards shoulder, not stomach.

Where does that wound come from and why does it not bleed until the moment Anderson dies, asnwer me that Epyon.

[Turbo_J]

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

(shrug)

I see a person holding a wound with their hand, looking down at the impact point, seeing a significant increase in blood for emphasis, covering it back up with said hand, and looking back at the chaos over Earth---and it's emphasis that the game has not directly placed on the wound beforehand.  Don't know what else to tell you.

What we know

It was not there - no blood

it was there - blood - specific attention drawn to it by the closeup

it was not there - no blood

Shep is to sexy to bleed out before finding a shady spot.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


There's no wound there that we can see. there isn't even a hole in his armor for blood to be spilling out.



His arms are covered in blood before he holds his wound for the last time.


There isn't a clear wound here either and his armor isn't shining with blood like his arms are. The blood is coming from his arms.

To be clear, what point are you trying to make, exactly? Because you seem to be pointing out oddities that in my eyes, just contribute to the concept that the scene is not real. Could you address the fact that Anderson has no wound or blood whatsoever? Why does he die and Shepard doesnt? Why isnt there any blood from TIM's suicide? 

To my knowledge, this is the first time we see anyone bleeding out in Mass Effect. There are no blood pools and the closest we've seen blood on a character was jacob. So the player normally wouldn't pick up on it since they don't expect it to be there.

But to portrey Shepard's condition, his model needed to show the blood as much as possible.

And my point is that if bioware staged everything down to the second for IT, then they contradict themselves if part of IT is that Shepard's "wound" comes after shooting anderson.

How is that a contradiction? Shepard shots Anderson who in IT is a representation of Sheaprd willpower so by wounding Anderson, Shepard is wounding him/herself and as Anderson passes away that wound is shown on Sheaprd instead, a representation of his damaged willpower...

Where is the contradiction?

[EpyonX3]

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

(shrug)

I see a person holding a wound with their hand, looking down at the impact point, seeing a significant increase in blood for emphasis, covering it back up with said hand, and looking back at the chaos over Earth---and it's emphasis that the game has not directly placed on the wound beforehand.  Don't know what else to tell you.

Play the end again and before you take the ride up to the citadel stand in one place. You'll see the unique animation of shepard coughing and holding his gut with his left hand.

Then, notice that when Tim walks in, Shepard holds his gut with his left hand.

Then notice that Shepard's left side above the waist is damaged much more than his right side, even though he was shot my Shields, there's no wound there either.

[Rosewind]

saintstc wrote...

Hey guys,

I'm a supporter of the IT theory, but I don't really understand how the the Normandy crashing into the jungle planet at the end fits in. Is this part of the hallucination? If so what do you think it means?

Thanks

We think it means that Shepard is imaging a happy ending for his friends....

[IronSabbath88]

*sigh*

I can't believe people are still arguing this..

The fact that the camera is used as a indication of POINTING directly to Shepard's side should be a sign enough that something is off with that scene. The IT documentary pointed out that BioWare even had a thing about how they use the camera.

It's a subtle thing that was meant as a subtle clue, like everything else IT related. BioWare did this in the sneakiest way possible but leaving just enough meat on the bone for people to be able to possibly figure out what was coming.

I don't see how that's hard to comprehend.

[Riot86]

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

After being blasted away by Harbinger, he is holding his stomach right below the belly button. Which is, as stated by dreamgazer, the stock "I'm hurt "-animation.




When Anderson dies, Shepard is clearly holding a different spot on his belly. It is more to the left side of his body and definately higher - exactly the spot where he shot Anderson a few moment earlier.

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 06:12 .

[HellishFiend]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Ok, i know i said i was done, but let me take one last stab at it.

Is it possible that you are confusing "speculation' with "creation"?

Because when your writing or making something, by all means, go as far and wide as you want. Its your creation after all.

BUT when your speculating, your connecting the dots on something that someone else made. Your supposed to figure out what everything is hinting at.... not make ramdon conclusions with no basis whatsoever. Here moderation is key.

Yes, even in liturature.

I guess it depends on what exactly the purpose of your activity is. If you are truly trying to speculate as to the author's intent, one could argue that a foundation of logic is required. 

However, since the author has not yet revealed the truth, there are no rules or boundaries. This is a work of fiction. Thus there is no possibility for moderation, let alone a place for it. Until the truth is set in black and white somewhere, the only true moderator is your own perception and interpretation. If you dont agree with someones idea or concept, your own personal moderator rejects it. That doesnt reach into the other person's mind and invalidate their opinion in their own mind, though. 

Remember, while we are engaging in a social activity here, literary analysis at its core is an internal, personal thing. Even if you're trying to "connect the dots" on an author's intent, the validity of an interpretation is entirely subjective. 

[EpyonX3]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


There's no wound there that we can see. there isn't even a hole in his armor for blood to be spilling out.



His arms are covered in blood before he holds his wound for the last time.


There isn't a clear wound here either and his armor isn't shining with blood like his arms are. The blood is coming from his arms.

To be clear, what point are you trying to make, exactly? Because you seem to be pointing out oddities that in my eyes, just contribute to the concept that the scene is not real. Could you address the fact that Anderson has no wound or blood whatsoever? Why does he die and Shepard doesnt? Why isnt there any blood from TIM's suicide? 

To my knowledge, this is the first time we see anyone bleeding out in Mass Effect. There are no blood pools and the closest we've seen blood on a character was jacob. So the player normally wouldn't pick up on it since they don't expect it to be there.

But to portrey Shepard's condition, his model needed to show the blood as much as possible.

And my point is that if bioware staged everything down to the second for IT, then they contradict themselves if part of IT is that Shepard's "wound" comes after shooting anderson.

How is that a contradiction? Shepard shots Anderson who in IT is a representation of Sheaprd willpower so by wounding Anderson, Shepard is wounding him/herself and as Anderson passes away that wound is shown on Sheaprd instead, a representation of his damaged willpower...

Where is the contradiction?

Because the "wound" was there before Shepard even got to the Citadel. And before he even shot Anderson.

[Corik]

Oh ffs. That's symbolic. I can't think of anything more symbolic than Shepard being forced to shoot Anderson and few seconds after that the camera focusing on a weird wound on Shepard in the exact spot where Anderson was shooted... and ****ing bleeding out. There's no way he could be bleeding from his arms. Harby's attack is impossible to provoke such bleeding anywhere.

[EpyonX3]

Riot86 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

After being blasted away by Harbinger, he is holding his stomach right below the belly button. Which is, as stated by dreamgazer, the stock "I'm hurt "-animation.




When Anderson dies, Shepard is clearly holding a different spot on his belly. It is more the the left side and definately higher - exactly the spot where he shot Anderson a few moment earlier.

So he's holding his stomach slightly higher than when he was standing up. How does this make the previous injury go away and the new one appear?

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Anyone wonder why people don't remember this line?

"You stole the Normandy, got blown up by the collectors AND sent us to a suicide mission to the galactic core and I haven't mutinied once. Not once!"

Why would Joker 180 at the end. ME2 FemShep voice: "It Doesn't Make Sense!"

He wouldnt. We all know that.  Not even pro-enders have a solid postulation for it; they are just counting on a good face-value EC explanation for why he does it. 

You know I know this I hope...

I could give them a bone and say Shep is already on the ship, but nobody wants to hear that either... and the breath scene kind of tosses it out in the Destroy ending...

Dream happen out of order though right.

Point is, Joker would never in a million abandon Shepard... Death would take him before that would ever happen.

[DJBare]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So nobody thinks priority earth is weird because shepards will is starting to falter?
That anderson looked suspiciously at shepard because shepard was looking indocrinated and not he other way around?

Hmm, never thought of it that way, I've always been of the opinion that Anderson is the indoctrinated one and his remark about being born in london was just to reinforce Shepard's belief that he was still the same old Anderson, but I like your view, perhaps he was suspicious of Shepard given the circumstances.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


There's no wound there that we can see. there isn't even a hole in his armor for blood to be spilling out.



His arms are covered in blood before he holds his wound for the last time.


There isn't a clear wound here either and his armor isn't shining with blood like his arms are. The blood is coming from his arms.

To be clear, what point are you trying to make, exactly? Because you seem to be pointing out oddities that in my eyes, just contribute to the concept that the scene is not real. Could you address the fact that Anderson has no wound or blood whatsoever? Why does he die and Shepard doesnt? Why isnt there any blood from TIM's suicide? 

To my knowledge, this is the first time we see anyone bleeding out in Mass Effect. There are no blood pools and the closest we've seen blood on a character was jacob. So the player normally wouldn't pick up on it since they don't expect it to be there.

But to portrey Shepard's condition, his model needed to show the blood as much as possible.

And my point is that if bioware staged everything down to the second for IT, then they contradict themselves if part of IT is that Shepard's "wound" comes after shooting anderson.

Hmm, I am going to have to disagree with you again (are you still keeping track? ). I dont think that qualifies as a contradiction. 

And back to the suicide thing, TIM's optional suicide bears a lot of similarities to Saren's optional sucide. The key difference being that there is no blood spatter whatsoever for TIM. The only blood we ever see during the Citadel sequence is Shepard's, and I am convinced that means something. 

[dreamgazer]

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

(shrug)

I see a person holding a wound with their hand, looking down at the impact point, seeing a significant increase in blood for emphasis, covering it back up with said hand, and looking back at the chaos over Earth---and it's emphasis that the game has not directly placed on the wound beforehand.  Don't know what else to tell you.

Play the end again and before you take the ride up to the citadel stand in one place. You'll see the unique animation of shepard coughing and holding his gut with his left hand.

Then, notice that when Tim walks in, Shepard holds his gut with his left hand.

Then notice that Shepard's left side above the waist is damaged much more than his right side, even though he was shot my Shields, there's no wound there either.

Oh, I don't doubt that they place emphasis on the fact that Shepard's been knocked around on Earth, and it's damaged overall health.  Hence, the hunched-over animation, and the similar animation to that when Shepard wakes up in ME2. 

There isn't, however, a clear establishing shot of that particular wound and how it happened beforehand, whatsoever.  And then, after the gunshot, it's emphasized pretty clearly.

[Turbo_J]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip for size*

Dude, s/he looks down at the wound.

http://youtu.be/x_rLN5z8q38?t=1m30s

He looks down at his gut yes, he's been doing that since you got up from the beam.

After being blasted away by Harbinger, he is holding his stomach right below the belly button. Which is, as stated by dreamgazer, the stock "I'm hurt "-animation.




When Anderson dies, Shepard is clearly holding a different spot on his belly. It is more the the left side and definately higher - exactly the spot where he shot Anderson a few moment earlier.

So he's holding his stomach slightly higher than when he was standing up. How does this make the previous injury go away and the new one appear?

'23' spiral of doom guys... symantics.

Focus on the blood, not the wound. It's not there. It's there!!! It's not there... ?

That's all you need.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...


Then notice that Shepard's left side above the waist is damaged much more than his right side, even though he was shot my Shields, there's no wound there either.

Again, you're making a point that favors IT in my book. Shepard cannot be wounded by something like Marauder Shields in his own mind. He can only be harmed by attacks on his mental and emotional faculties, like in the Anderson/TIM scene. 

[Rosewind]

Corik wrote...

Oh ffs. That's symbolic. I can't think of anything more symbolic than Shepard being forced to shoot Anderson and few seconds after that the camera focusing on a weird wound on Shepard in the exact spot where Anderson was shooted... and ****ing bleeding out. There's no way he could be bleeding from his arms. Harby's attack is impossible to provoke such bleeding anywhere.

Burns bleed sometimes hun if they burn enough off.....

[dreamgazer]

Direct pressure on the wound.