55528 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Then notice that Shepard's left side above the waist is damaged much more than his right side, even though he was shot my Shields, there's no wound there either.

Again, you're making a point that favors IT in my book. Shepard cannot be wounded by something like Marauder Shields in his own mind. He can only be harmed by attacks on his mental and emotional faculties, like in the Anderson/TIM scene. 

The reason i don't see anything special with this is because this happens all the time in the game. When you're shields are down and you get shot, you'll see similar graphics of blood coming from where Shepard is shot. And yet Shepard recovers if you duck behind something and can continue with the mission even with the one red bar of health.

So not seeing blood and wounds after Shields shoots Shepard doesn't surprise me.

Ok, so to summarize, what element exactly are you suggesting favors face-value instead of IT? Because in my opinion, just about everything we've discussed on this subject today favors IT instead of face-value. 

Epyon usually ends up convincing me of IT further, instead of... whatever his original point was. 

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LOL. There's plenty of blood flying towards the camera when Shepard is shot by Marauder Shields.

Yes, but the point is that there is no persisting would. It is conceivable that the sequence of the right shoulder being the target of MS's initial attack, followed by Shepard using his right shoulder to aim his gun and take him down is actually a clue in and of itself. 

If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Though after having arrived on the Ciradel he grabs his shoulder.

Do you think that is enough to categorically reject my entire post, though? I dont, personally. 

[Rosewind]

Can we stick to one name for that star child we should make a poll OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we should make a poll!!!

[paxxton]

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Corik wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Then notice that Shepard's left side above the waist is damaged much more than his right side, even though he was shot my Shields, there's no wound there either.

Again, you're making a point that favors IT in my book. Shepard cannot be wounded by something like Marauder Shields in his own mind. He can only be harmed by attacks on his mental and emotional faculties, like in the Anderson/TIM scene. 

The reason i don't see anything special with this is because this happens all the time in the game. When you're shields are down and you get shot, you'll see similar graphics of blood coming from where Shepard is shot. And yet Shepard recovers if you duck behind something and can continue with the mission even with the one red bar of health.

So not seeing blood and wounds after Shields shoots Shepard doesn't surprise me.

Obviously you can't tell the difference between gameplay and symbolism. I'm sad for you.

LOL. There's plenty of blood flying towards the camera when Shepard is shot by Marauder Shields.

Precisely. I'm almost sure that Marauder Shields was designed to shoot you in the shoulder that way so anybody could say "Hey, I was shot in the shoulder but I'm bleeding and the camera focus on my abdomen... what's going on here?"

That is symbolism.

I think it's more of a contradiction than symbolism.

The contradiction is made so you can clearly see the symbolism.

Uhm, what symbolism?

[Arian Dynas]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I'm still a firm believer that Anderson is still a part of Shepard's mind.

When Anderson says "God, it feels like years since I just sat down" and Shepard replies with "I think you've earned a rest".. it doesn't really make sense for Anderson because Anderson HAS had a chance to sit down.. he was retired in ME1 and spent most of his time on the Citadel and in ME2, again, same thing. So, Anderson has had a rest. Shepard on the other hand, has never had a rest.

Plus the "stay with me" line is telling. When "Anderson" finally parts, that's when the next sequence starts and what do we see? The wound.

It's all very telling to me.

Agreed.

[HellishFiend]

balance5050 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ok, so to summarize, what element exactly are you suggesting favors face-value instead of IT? Because in my opinion, just about everything we've discussed on this subject today favors IT instead of face-value. 

Epyon usually ends up convincing me of IT further, instead of... whatever his original point was. 

That tends to happen with most face-value arguments, in my opinion. It just reinforces the idea that it makes so little sense, that the lack of sense itself must be a clue. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 06 juin 2012 - 06:40 .

[DJBare]

HellishFiend wrote...
If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup, somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the bullet....oh wait.

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I'm still a firm believer that Anderson is still a part of Shepard's mind.

When Anderson says "God, it feels like years since I just sat down" and Shepard replies with "I think you've earned a rest".. it doesn't really make sense for Anderson because Anderson HAS had a chance to sit down.. he was retired in ME1 and spent most of his time on the Citadel and in ME2, again, same thing. So, Anderson has had a rest. Shepard on the other hand, has never had a rest.

Plus the "stay with me" line is telling. When "Anderson" finally parts, that's when the next sequence starts and what do we see? The wound.

It's all very telling to me.

Agreed. The symbolism seems quite clear to me once you know what to look for. 

Watched Fight Club yesterday for the second time, and it's really one of those movies that is to be watched at least two times, or you miss stuff. Nevermind genitals popping up for microseconds, but it would've been awesome, if the kid kept popping up during random scenes, but hidden such that you wouldn't notice it.

Oh wait, we do...when he runs into the closed door on the balcony. Surely, one only notices this on a secondary playthrough.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 06 juin 2012 - 06:43 .

[DJBare]

Rosewind wrote...

Can we stick to one name for that star child we should make a poll OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we should make a poll!!!

I vote "Starbinger"; it's still the best I've seen in my opinion.

[Riot86]

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup, somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the bullet....oh wait.

He still has his Plot Armor...

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 06:43 .

[Arian Dynas]

DJBare wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Can we stick to one name for that star child we should make a poll OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we should make a poll!!!

I vote "Starbinger"; it's still the best I've seen in my opinion.

I still like Task Manager.

[Riot86]

Arian Dynas wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Can we stick to one name for that star child we should make a poll OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we should make a poll!!!

I vote "Starbinger"; it's still the best I've seen in my opinion.

I still like Task Manager.

I prefer sticking to the original "Starchild"...plain and simple

But since I'm kinda new to this thread, I think others should decide

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 06:46 .

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup, somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the bullet....oh wait.

He still has his Plot Armor...

I know youre being sarcastic, but it makes me want to once again reference "choreographed down to the second". If Bioware wasnt trying to demonstrate the "unbelievability" of the situation, why did they choose his right shoulder as the target? Why did they make an animation that shows an injury being suffered that would be so grievous that his arm would be all but useless afterwards? 

They could have just as easily had Shepard be shot in the abdomen, and suddenly the entire "bleeding out" scene becomes realistic and face-value plausible instead of improbable and symbolic.

[DJBare]

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup, somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the bullet....oh wait.

Here ya go, also note the blood from the rear of the shoulder indicating the bullet passed through.

[balance5050]

HellishFiend wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ok, so to summarize, what element exactly are you suggesting favors face-value instead of IT? Because in my opinion, just about everything we've discussed on this subject today favors IT instead of face-value. 

Epyon usually ends up convincing me of IT further, instead of... whatever his original point was. 

That tends to happen with most face-value arguments, in my opinion. It just reinforces the idea that it makes so little sense, that the lack of sense itself must be a clue. 

Yep, pretty much everytime one would ask themselves "why?" concerning anything about the end, if you follow in game lore, you'll end up with indoctrination as the only explanation that makes sense.

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup, somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the bullet....oh wait.

Here ya go, also note the blood from the rear of the shoulder indicating the bullet passed through.

Even has cartoon-style impact emphasis lines. Cant think of another time that ever happens in an ME game. 

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LOL. There's plenty of blood flying towards the camera when Shepard is shot by Marauder Shields.

Yes, but the point is that there is no persisting would. It is conceivable that the sequence of the right shoulder being the target of MS's initial attack, followed by Shepard using his right shoulder to aim his gun and take him down is actually a clue in and of itself. 

If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Though after having arrived on the Ciradel he grabs his shoulder.

Do you think that is enough to categorically reject my entire post, though? I dont, personally. 

Dunno, it seems strange that he doesn't press his shoulder other than the onetime after arriving on the Citadel but maybe if he did he couldn't hold a gun. It's that theme of sacrifice. He sacrifices his shoulder to finish the fight. 

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 06:53 .

[Riot86]

HellishFiend wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup, somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the bullet....oh wait.

He still has his Plot Armor...

I know youre being sarcastic, but it makes me want to once again reference "choreographed down to the second". If Bioware wasnt trying to demonstrate the "unbelievability" of the situation, why did they choose his right shoulder as the target? Why did they make an animation that shows an injury being suffered that would be so grievous that his arm would be all but useless afterwards? 

They could have just as easily had Shepard be shot in the abdomen, and suddenly the entire "bleeding out" scene becomes realistic and face-value plausible instead of improbable and symbolic.

Agreed.

It would have been the exact same amount of work for Bioware to have Marauder shields just hit Shepard's left shoulder or his stomach. So I guess, we can assume they actually decided to make it that way.

Same with the changing gun in the DESTROY ending or Starchild's "tranformation" in the CONTROL ending....they had to put work into these things to make them this way. Why wouldn't they choose somethink more logical than a morphing gun? Maybe something which makes actually sense when looking at the the ending at face value, if face value is what they went for?

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 06:56 .

[Turbo_J]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Yep, not bad. And your english is near perfect so no worries there.

The only thing I'll comment on is that there is tons more that happens between 1 and 2 in your list; including but not limited to.

Radio transmissions: First, short wave is not jammed? ok.
Radio transmissions are familar - first one is similar to Garrus talking about casualty percentages on the Citadel
-Second one about a soldier who 'lost his leg below the knee' like the one in Huerta Memorial

Conversations messed up
Repeat of 'I was born in London'.
Wrex's 'baby girl named Mordin' brain fade.

Datapad in the hospital screaming 'indoctrination is here!'

QEC party line

Weapons bench

Thanix 'missiles' - face palm

Water running up hill

Let's look at a few alternative explanations before turning to hallucination

Could maybe chalk that up to narrative convineience, maybe.

Could be deja vu

We've heard nothing to contradict it, and just because he was born in London, doesn't mean he was raised there.

Not sure what you mean about this one. Seemed perfectly "Wrex" to me.

Could just be forshadowing for later.

That I'll agree with.

Gameplay and story segregation, that and who's to say it wasn't just left abandoned by someone?

I've given the explanation before that these could potentially be missles designed to hit extremely hard and fast, simaltaneously liquidizing and superheating a metallic subtstance designed to splatter all over the target at extreme speeds.

Wait what? Where did THAT happen? 

Sorry, alot of what I wrote was only half of what happened... I short formed it becuase I wrote out the entire context earlier.

First, water runs up hill during the charge to the beam.

On Tuchanka, wrex says they'll name a baby after Mordin... a girl. In London, Wrex says Bakara wants to name a baby after Mornin - and then says "I have no idea why, but whatever..."

Anderson: Tells Shep on the Normandy that he was born in London. Then on the shuttle, tells Shep again as if they never spoke of it.

Thanix 'missiles' - face palm - They do not exist... New tech like that produces a real time codex entry without fail - save for the original botched Cain in ME2.

The datapad is foreshadowing, for Shep about a minute into the future and maybe a few hours into the past... some may have even had a lightbulb moment after reading it.

As for the radio trasmissions, just creepy then... we'll go with deja vu, but I'll add a side of tingling spidy senses.

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


I know youre being sarcastic, but it makes me want to once again reference "choreographed down to the second". If Bioware wasnt trying to demonstrate the "unbelievability" of the situation, why did they choose his right shoulder as the target? Why did they make an animation that shows an injury being suffered that would be so grievous that his arm would be all but useless afterwards? 

They could have just as easily had Shepard be shot in the abdomen, and suddenly the entire "bleeding out" scene becomes realistic and face-value plausible instead of improbable and symbolic.

Agreed.

It would have been the exact same amount of work for Bioware to have Marauder shields just hit Shepard's left shoulder or his stomach. So I guess, we can assume they actually decided to make it that way.

Same with the changing gun in the DESTROY ending or Starchild's "tranformation" in the CONTROL ending....they had to put work into these things to make them this way. Why wouldn't they choose somethink more logical than a morphing gun? Maybe something which makes actually sense when looking at the the ending at face value, if face value is what they went for?

Bolded is the very thought process from which IT was born.  It's been a very interesting 3 months since then. 

[balance5050]

HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
If his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the "blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup, somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the bullet....oh wait.

Here ya go, also note the blood from the rear of the shoulder indicating the bullet passed through.

Even has cartoon-style impact emphasis lines. Cant think of another time that ever happens in an ME game. 

He's getting shot in the same arm that he uses to hold his gun, yet he's still able to lift it and aim properly. To me this could be symbolism that his mental image of himself is weakening because later TIM uses indoc powers to lift this arm and shoot Anderson.

Shields wounds Shep's arm, TIM manipulates this arm to shoot Anderson (part of Shepard), Shep has Anderson's wound.

Modifié par balance5050, 06 juin 2012 - 06:59 .

[Rosewind]

DJBare wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Can we stick to one name for that star child we should make a poll OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we should make a poll!!!

I vote "Starbinger"; it's still the best I've seen in my opinion.

Yeah I love that one to lol

[Riot86]

DJBare wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
If
his shoulder is so violently savaged the way that the animation and the
"blood flying towards the camera" suggests, how does he then instantly
cowboy a bullet straight into MS's face? And no persistent wound
afterwards? Doesnt bode well for face-value. 

Yup,
somewhere in this thread I posted an image of the impact, no way Shepard
should still be using that arm, perhaps the armor stopped the
bullet....oh wait.

Here ya go, also note the blood from the rear of the shoulder indicating the bullet passed through.

Just looking at the size of the chunks flying away, I assume there would not have been much left of Shepard's right shoulder

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 06:59 .

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Can we stick to one name for that star child we should make a poll OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we should make a poll!!!

I vote "Starbinger"; it's still the best I've seen in my opinion.

Yeah I love that one to lol

Starchild is the best.

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...

Just looking at the size of the chunks flying away, I assume there would not have been much left of Shepard's right shoulder

Yes, not to mention in all 3 of the canon novels by Drew, every time a character is hit with any weapon that breaches their shields or barriers, the affected area is always described as being rendered into a "useless hamburger pulp".