55528 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The only indoctrination going on is with me indoctrinating the Reapers.

Control ftw.

Boy, are you in for a shock. 

Actually we might all be in for a shock, I remember posting something like this a while back, if we accept all after the beam to be an illusion then it will not matter which option you chose, all will wake up to discover the entire thing was a deception, no one gets control, no one gets utopia and no one destroys the reapers, I don't think anyone dies, not even those with low EMS, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, high EMS just gives extra clues, though I'll admit I'm struggling to find where synthesis and control might transfer from illusion to the real world.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

paxxton wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

dmay7 wrote...
I am now convinced that Commander Shepard is in fact at the location of Admiral Andersons birthplace. 
 

How did you come to that conclusion?

I'm pretty sure he meant "London" if that's what confused you, where Anderson was born.

I think the problem is that that doesn't need any convincing because Anderson tells you that.

I think he was just trying to play with his words a bit, keeps people interested. But anyway, the "Torpedo" objects in the Breath scene, I also think they're part of the Beam structure if not the base of the beam itself. If that's the case, with the addition of so many Reaper cables that weren't on the Beamrun before, it's as if the Beam exploded (partially) and threw Shepard into a pile of London/Beam rubble.

[Big Bad]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 - I'm not sure if you're still around at the moment or not, but I had a question from a discussion earlier in the day that I was hoping to ask you (I was at work at the time and could only lurk).

Earlier you said that you think the EC will mostly just be adding scenes that were cut either after they were "filmed" or before. I'm curious what you think about Casey Hudson's tweet about how if the fans only knew what BW had planned, their reaction to the end would be different. Obviously that says nothing specific about IT, but to me it sure seems to be implying that BW has had something up their sleeve since day one. What's your interpretation?

I saw your replies to lex0r regarding who actually said that. To me this further implies that they have additional content that explains some of the missing events in the ending like why joker was running away, the crew got on the normandy, what happened to the rest of the galaxy and how willpeople get home.

That quote is more Gamble admitting that there's additional content that makes the ending better. This could be IT or it could be what I'm thinking of. I always leave a possibility for me to be wrong. I just think it's more likely that they cut things out for whatever, maybe certainelements could be completed in time, and now they have to go ahead from EA to continue what they wanted to finish.

I don't mean to be rude (especially since I asked for your opinion), but I really don't think your take on that tweet makes much sense. If the EC is just a few explanatory scenes, why did they already have this planned, and why would a few more scenes make us want to keep our copy of ME3 forever. Given the context of his statement, I think it is clear that Gamble is excited about something are working on and he really wishes he could share, but he can't. Remember, he said this only two days after the game launched, well before they announced anything about the EC. Whatever they are up to was planned well in advance of the EC announcement, and to me at least, that implies something much bigger than a few scenes to help us understand the ending.

But as you said, I am leaving open the possibility that my interpretation is wrong. I could be wrong, I just don't think I am.

edit: sorry about the typos. I am posting from my phone which the BSN makes surprisingly difficult!

Modifié par Big Bad, 06 juin 2012 - 07:46 .

[paxxton]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

dmay7 wrote...
I am now convinced that Commander Shepard is in fact at the location of Admiral Andersons birthplace. 
 

How did you come to that conclusion?

I'm pretty sure he meant "London" if that's what confused you, where Anderson was born.

I think the problem is that that doesn't need any convincing because Anderson tells you that.

I think he was just trying to play with his words a bit, keeps people interested. But anyway, the "Torpedo" objects in the Breath scene, I also think they're part of the Beam structure if not the base of the beam itself. If that's the case, with the addition of so many Reaper cables that weren't on the Beamrun before, it's as if the Beam exploded (partially) and threw Shepard into a pile of London/Beam rubble.

I believe the beam was deactivated by the Reapers hence no blue light in the breath scene.

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The only indoctrination going on is with me indoctrinating the Reapers.

Control ftw.

Boy, are you in for a shock. 

Actually we might all be in for a shock, I remember posting something like this a while back, if we accept all after the beam to be an illusion then it will not matter which option you chose, all will wake up to discover the entire thing was a deception, no one gets control, no one gets utopia and no one destroys the reapers, I don't think anyone dies, not even those with low EMS, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, high EMS just gives extra clues, though I'll admit I'm struggling to find where synthesis and control might transfer from illusion to the real world.

Perhaps, but no one is in for more of a shock than the pro-control and pro-synthesis camp. Many of them not only genuinely believe them to be true, but they want them to be true. Thats why I came up with the sig I did. Indoctrination takes advantage of your desires. Those who want Control or Synthesis badly enough will blind themselves to the possibility that they are being deceived, and will then be blindsided by the revelation and consequences. 

[Turbo_J]

dmay7 wrote...

Ok guys, I think I've finally figured it out. I finished another playthrough today, and I think I got a good grip.

While fighting Kai Leng, he mentions something along the lines of "Evolve, or die". And what does synthesis do...evolve all species. Kai Leng supports synthesis.

Saren's exact words in ME1

Also, when I got hit by Harbingers beam. I took a moment to examine the surroundings. About 25 pages ago, me and someone else posted some pics of the breathe scene. Among the pics are images of a torpedo shaped device, some Reaper chords, and an outline of what looks like an overturned Mako.

There is another posibility. The Big Ben clock can be seen in the background of the breath scene. He may actually be by the Hades cannon - where the clock actually is. The legs of the cannon look similar to the spires of the conduit. Both theories are valid.

After examining the site where Shepard enters the conduit, I came to the conclusion that the torpedo is actually the base of the conduit, and surprise surprise, I happened to find an overturned Mako. I am now convinced that Commander Shepard is in fact at the location of Admiral Andersons birthplace.

Oh and I found some dream trees at the site as well. The trees and bushes in Shepards dreams are there.

If someone can help provide some pics for analysis, because my capture software comprises of screen caping youtube vids haha.

Lots of info and pics about 30 pages back if you don't mind doing a little hunting... including pics of the clock, what looks like a mako, and an apartment building - which is also right by the Hades cannon.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 06 juin 2012 - 07:49 .

[BlackswordSteve]

Hmm....so why is that the reaper's dialogue on Rannoch seems to foreshadow the whole 3 color choice ending?

I can't remember exactly what he says, but its something along the lines of "we represent order, and you represent chaos" which is pretty much what Starchild describes in the ending. I mean, it just seems strange to foreshadow the ending like that if it wasn't meant to be real.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

paxxton wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

dmay7 wrote...
I am now convinced that Commander Shepard is in fact at the location of Admiral Andersons birthplace. 
 

How did you come to that conclusion?

I'm pretty sure he meant "London" if that's what confused you, where Anderson was born.

I think the problem is that that doesn't need any convincing because Anderson tells you that.

I think he was just trying to play with his words a bit, keeps people interested. But anyway, the "Torpedo" objects in the Breath scene, I also think they're part of the Beam structure if not the base of the beam itself. If that's the case, with the addition of so many Reaper cables that weren't on the Beamrun before, it's as if the Beam exploded (partially) and threw Shepard into a pile of London/Beam rubble.

I believe the beam was deactivated by the Reapers hence no blue light in the breath scene.

There is a very faint blue light, much more apparent in a recording with max brightness added, but true not enough to show the beam as active.

[HellishFiend]

BlackswordSteve wrote...

Hmm....so why is that the reaper's dialogue on Rannoch seems to foreshadow the whole 3 color choice ending?

I can't remember exactly what he says, but its something along the lines of "we represent order, and you represent chaos" which is pretty much what Starchild describes in the ending. I mean, it just seems strange to foreshadow the ending like that if it wasn't meant to be real.

On the contrary, it makes perfect sense. IT generally states that Harbinger is responsible for the final indoctrination attempt. The Rannoch Reaper admits that Harbinger "speaks of Shepard". Thus whatever plot Harbinger is scheming, if any, is likely common knowledge among the Reapers. Thus it would make sense that they try to help set Shepard up for the indoc attempt by planting the seeds. 

[Riot86]

DJBare wrote...

Actually we might all be in for a shock, I remember posting something like this a while back, if we accept all after the beam to be an illusion then it will not matter which option you chose, all will wake up to discover the entire thing was a deception, no one gets control, no one gets utopia and no one destroys the reapers, I don't think anyone dies, not even those with low EMS, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, high EMS just gives extra clues, though I'll admit I'm struggling to find where synthesis and control might transfer from illusion to the real world.

Maybe SYNTHESIS and CONTROL would really mean "Game Over" for Shepard as he actually becomes a Reaper agent as the result of his decision.

The player then just takes control of another (though "unofficial") N7 Operative to save the day - James Vega 

Modifié par Riot86, 06 juin 2012 - 07:51 .

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The only indoctrination going on is with me indoctrinating the Reapers.

Control ftw.

Boy, are you in for a shock. 

Actually we might all be in for a shock, I remember posting something like this a while back, if we accept all after the beam to be an illusion then it will not matter which option you chose, all will wake up to discover the entire thing was a deception, no one gets control, no one gets utopia and no one destroys the reapers, I don't think anyone dies, not even those with low EMS, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, high EMS just gives extra clues, though I'll admit I'm struggling to find where synthesis and control might transfer from illusion to the real world.

Perhaps, but no one is in for more of a shock than the pro-control and pro-synthesis camp. Many of them not only genuinely believe them to be true, but they want them to be true. Thats why I came up with the sig I did. Indoctrination takes advantage of your desires. Those who want Control or Synthesis badly enough will blind themselves to the possibility that they are being deceived, and will then be blindsided by the revelation and consequences. 

And those who choose Destroy desperately want to destroy the Reapers. The only reason that might be better in EC than the other choices is that the game's overarching theme was to destroy the Reapers. Mass Effect indoctrinates the players to think it's the best option to destroy everything that opposes them.

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 07:51 .

[balance5050]

BlackswordSteve wrote...

Hmm....so why is that the reaper's dialogue on Rannoch seems to foreshadow the whole 3 color choice ending?

I can't remember exactly what he says, but its something along the lines of "we represent order, and you represent chaos" which is pretty much what Starchild describes in the ending. I mean, it just seems strange to foreshadow the ending like that if it wasn't meant to be real.

He also say "Harbinger speaks of you", order and chaos are so vague that you can literally spin it to mean anything, we basically represent chaos becasue we threaten their cycle.

Modifié par balance5050, 06 juin 2012 - 07:52 .

[balance5050]

 


This is why I hope the E.C. has gameplay......

[Turbo_J]

BlackswordSteve wrote...

Hmm....so why is that the reaper's dialogue on Rannoch seems to foreshadow the whole 3 color choice ending?

I can't remember exactly what he says, but its something along the lines of "we represent order, and you represent chaos" which is pretty much what Starchild describes in the ending. I mean, it just seems strange to foreshadow the ending like that if it wasn't meant to be real.

Reapers gonna reap.

Why would it tell you the truth. You want the truth... or at least a little more of the truth, go back in time and talk to Sovereign.

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The only indoctrination going on is with me indoctrinating the Reapers.

Control ftw.

Boy, are you in for a shock. 

Actually we might all be in for a shock, I remember posting something like this a while back, if we accept all after the beam to be an illusion then it will not matter which option you chose, all will wake up to discover the entire thing was a deception, no one gets control, no one gets utopia and no one destroys the reapers, I don't think anyone dies, not even those with low EMS, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, high EMS just gives extra clues, though I'll admit I'm struggling to find where synthesis and control might transfer from illusion to the real world.

Perhaps, but no one is in for more of a shock than the pro-control and pro-synthesis camp. Many of them not only genuinely believe them to be true, but they want them to be true. Thats why I came up with the sig I did. Indoctrination takes advantage of your desires. Those who want Control or Synthesis badly enough will blind themselves to the possibility that they are being deceived, and will then be blindsided by the revelation and consequences. 

Is it possible to come up with a story continuation that lets the player continue in his/her 'indoctrinated' point of view, aka a Reaper win scenario not seem as bad as to those (most of us here) who are sure that Destroy is the 'right' choice? Or, do Controllers or Synthesizers (that's right, I wrote it) have to feel blindsided?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 06 juin 2012 - 07:54 .

[balance5050]

Turbo_J wrote...

BlackswordSteve wrote...

Hmm....so why is that the reaper's dialogue on Rannoch seems to foreshadow the whole 3 color choice ending?

I can't remember exactly what he says, but its something along the lines of "we represent order, and you represent chaos" which is pretty much what Starchild describes in the ending. I mean, it just seems strange to foreshadow the ending like that if it wasn't meant to be real.

Reapers gonna reap.

Why would it tell you the truth. You want the truth... or at least a little more of the truth, go back in time and talk to Sovereign.

"Harbinger speaks of you", the reapers share thoughts... so I think they would all be privvy to the plan of indoctrinating Shepard.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Perhaps, but no one is in for more of a shock than the pro-control and pro-synthesis camp. Many of them not only genuinely believe them to be true, but they want them to be true. Thats why I came up with the sig I did. Indoctrination takes advantage of your desires. Those who want Control or Synthesis badly enough will blind themselves to the possibility that they are being deceived, and will then be blindsided by the revelation and consequences. 

And those who choose Destroy desperately want to destroy the Reapers. The only reason that might be better in EC than the other choices is that the game's overarching theme was to destroy the Reapers. Mass Effect indoctrinates the players to think it's the best option to destroy everythink that opposes them.

Yes, but you may be confusing "indoctrination" with "Indoctrination". One is a proper noun that stands for the Reapers' "Insidious method of corrupting organic minds", the other simply stands for a process of swaying someone towards a specific belief or beliefs. DJBare tried to exemplify that distinction a while back, but it was largely lost on people. 

You are correct, ME "indoctrinates" players into believing the Reapers must be destroyed, but I believe that "indoctrination" is correct and legitimate. The bait and switch at the very end to try and sway you towards believing in Control or Synthesis is the insidious "Indoctrination" with a capital I. 

[HellishFiend]

MaximizedAction wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Perhaps, but no one is in for more of a shock than the pro-control and pro-synthesis camp. Many of them not only genuinely believe them to be true, but they want them to be true. Thats why I came up with the sig I did. Indoctrination takes advantage of your desires. Those who want Control or Synthesis badly enough will blind themselves to the possibility that they are being deceived, and will then be blindsided by the revelation and consequences. 

Is it possible to come up with a story continuation that lets the player continue in his/her 'indoctrinated' point of view, aka a Reaper win scenario not seem as bad as to those (most of us here) who are sure that Destroy is the 'right' choice? Or, do Controllers or Synthesizers (that's right, I wrote it) have to feel blindsided?

I certainly do hope there is a good amount of content for choosers of Control or Synthesis, and there are certainly ways they could pull it off. The problem is, if Shepard becomes indoctrinated, that suggests the player has lost control of him. Therefore it is unlikely that there could be any gameplay, unless it branches off into a Darkspawn Chronicles style affair, where you openly accept the idea that you are now helping the bad guys win. While I personally think it would be cool, I dont think that sort of thing would fly well with people who wanted the blue and green options to be real...

Modifié par HellishFiend, 06 juin 2012 - 07:58 .

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Perhaps, but no one is in for more of a shock than the pro-control and pro-synthesis camp. Many of them not only genuinely believe them to be true, but they want them to be true. Thats why I came up with the sig I did. Indoctrination takes advantage of your desires. Those who want Control or Synthesis badly enough will blind themselves to the possibility that they are being deceived, and will then be blindsided by the revelation and consequences. 

And those who choose Destroy desperately want to destroy the Reapers. The only reason that might be better in EC than the other choices is that the game's overarching theme was to destroy the Reapers. Mass Effect indoctrinates the players to think it's the best option to destroy everythink that opposes them.

Yes, but you may be confusing "indoctrination" with "Indoctrination". One is a proper noun that stands for the Reapers' "Insidious method of corrupting organic minds", the other simply stands for a process of swaying someone towards a specific belief or beliefs. DJBare tried to exemplify that distinction a while back, but it was largely lost on people. 

You are correct, ME "indoctrinates" players into believing the Reapers must be destroyed, but I believe that "indoctrination" is correct and legitimate. The bait and switch at the very end to try and sway you towards believing in Control or Synthesis is the insidious "Indoctrination" with a capital I. 

As far as I remember I debunked DJBare's theory that Shepard was indoctrinating other characters by talking with them and merely asking for information or a favor.

Modifié par paxxton, 06 juin 2012 - 07:58 .

[Turbo_J]

paxxton wrote...

Mass Effect indoctrinates the players to think it's the best option to destroy everythink that opposes them.

Maybe for renegades, to a degree, but even they can be peace makers depending on their moral choices. I have a Renegade that didn't kill a single unarmed free willed organic or synthetic that didn't threaten them.

'Ruthless' is a choice, not a requirement.

[Rosewind]

BlackswordSteve wrote...

Hmm....so why is that the reaper's dialogue on Rannoch seems to foreshadow the whole 3 color choice ending?

I can't remember exactly what he says, but its something along the lines of "we represent order, and you represent chaos" which is pretty much what Starchild describes in the ending. I mean, it just seems strange to foreshadow the ending like that if it wasn't meant to be real.

WE are Order and you are Chaos

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Perhaps, but no one is in for more of a shock than the pro-control and pro-synthesis camp. Many of them not only genuinely believe them to be true, but they want them to be true. Thats why I came up with the sig I did. Indoctrination takes advantage of your desires. Those who want Control or Synthesis badly enough will blind themselves to the possibility that they are being deceived, and will then be blindsided by the revelation and consequences. 

And those who choose Destroy desperately want to destroy the Reapers. The only reason that might be better in EC than the other choices is that the game's overarching theme was to destroy the Reapers. Mass Effect indoctrinates the players to think it's the best option to destroy everythink that opposes them.

Yes, but you may be confusing "indoctrination" with "Indoctrination". One is a proper noun that stands for the Reapers' "Insidious method of corrupting organic minds", the other simply stands for a process of swaying someone towards a specific belief or beliefs. DJBare tried to exemplify that distinction a while back, but it was largely lost on people. 

You are correct, ME "indoctrinates" players into believing the Reapers must be destroyed, but I believe that "indoctrination" is correct and legitimate. The bait and switch at the very end to try and sway you towards believing in Control or Synthesis is the insidious "Indoctrination" with a capital I. 

If I remember I debunked DJBare's theory that Shepard was indoctrinating other characters by talking with them and merely asking for information or a favor.

What does that have to do at all with what I just said? You are merely proving my statement that DJBare's attempt at explaining the distinction between the two was lost on people. 

Seriously, go look up the literal definition of the word indoctrination, setting aside the proper noun lore definition of "Indoctrination" in the mass effect universe. After reading it, then think about what DJBare was saying. Hopefully it will make sense. 

The point is, anytime you are trying to convince someone of something they do not currently believe, you are attempting to indoctrinate them in a literal sense. 

[balance5050]

What other art books show things that AREN'T in the game? Concept art is one thing but it's usually art that depicts things that are actually in the game. The ME3 art book shows A LOT of things that never happen in the game....

[DJBare]

Riot86 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Actually we might all be in for a shock, I remember posting something like this a while back, if we accept all after the beam to be an illusion then it will not matter which option you chose, all will wake up to discover the entire thing was a deception, no one gets control, no one gets utopia and no one destroys the reapers, I don't think anyone dies, not even those with low EMS, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, high EMS just gives extra clues, though I'll admit I'm struggling to find where synthesis and control might transfer from illusion to the real world.

Maybe SYNTHESIS and CONTROL would really mean "Game Over" for Shepard as he actually becomes a Reaper agent as the result of his decision.

The player then just takes control of another (though "unofficial") N7 Operative to save the day - James Vega 

Are you really trying to give me nightmares?, I can imagine a lot of players would be disgusted by such an outcome, don't get me wrong, I'm actually one of the few who likes Vega, but he is not Shepard.

[balance5050]

DJBare wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Actually we might all be in for a shock, I remember posting something like this a while back, if we accept all after the beam to be an illusion then it will not matter which option you chose, all will wake up to discover the entire thing was a deception, no one gets control, no one gets utopia and no one destroys the reapers, I don't think anyone dies, not even those with low EMS, as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, high EMS just gives extra clues, though I'll admit I'm struggling to find where synthesis and control might transfer from illusion to the real world.

Maybe SYNTHESIS and CONTROL would really mean "Game Over" for Shepard as he actually becomes a Reaper agent as the result of his decision.

The player then just takes control of another (though "unofficial") N7 Operative to save the day - James Vega 

Are you really trying to give me nightmares?, I can imagine a lot of players would be disgusted by such an outcome, don't get me wrong, I'm actually one of the few who likes Vega, but he is not Shepard.

I think it should be your best friend or LI, so for me it would either be Garrus or Liara (whoever would show up on the jungle planet).... I could live with that (although, I'm not ruling out Liara's possible indoctrination.)

Modifié par balance5050, 06 juin 2012 - 08:06 .