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[HellishFiend]

magnetite wrote...

Went through the Thessia mission, and I found some stuff that pertains to indoctrination.

So when you're talking to the Illusive Man he states "They just want to control us". By that, he means indoctrination. And of course, in the end the Catalyst says "He (Illusive Man) could never have taken control, because we already controlled him".

Yes, but if you take TIM's line in context, he's actually suggesting that he believes the Reapers just want to control organics as a whole, rather than any specific individual or species.

The Catalyst's line is just him trying to convince us that "Oh, its cool, you can totally control the Reapers. TIM couldnt do it, but you can control us." 

And he expects/hopes that we'll just be like:

"SEEMS LEGIT!" https://encrypted-tb...bfyJfnLaD-DRksd

But instead we should be like:

"Ah yes,  "Control the Reapers", I have dismissed that claim."

Modifié par HellishFiend, 07 juin 2012 - 05:49 .

[CanadianGunshy]

Starbuck8 wrote...

CanadianGunshy wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

CanadianGunshy wrote...

A quick point: If he is being indoctrinated - how come the crucible can be destroyed before he makes his choice?

My first playthrough I couldn't make up my mind and eventually got a message "The crucible has been destroyed by the reapers." It was a critical mission failure and had to start again.

If he is being indoctrinated = by the reasoning so far he only becomes indoctrinated when he chooses Control or Synthesis. By not making a choice at all, technically he shouldn't end up indoctrinated or 'dead' and having to start the entire mission over. (Which sucked by the way).

It's a common misconception that taking too long to choose causes "the Crucible is destroyed" game over. It only happens if you pass a certain point on each path and then try to double back. I think the reason is that passing a certain point on each path triggers an irreversible asset loading process, and if you try to double back, the game has no choice but to force you to restart the scene, and they needed to come up with a game over message for you.

The only thing I find interesting about it is that they chose "The Crucible has been destroyed" instead of just having Shepard fall over dead the way he does outside the beam if you walk the wrong way. 

Had not actually gone down a path yet. Was standing there with the kid behind me going: 

All of these choices are unspeakable horrors. Was a little relieved when the crucible was destroyed and Shepard didn't end up choosing to commit an atrocity.

Apparently I took too long.

Was a little disappointed there was no cinematic to let me go: 

"Well, its the next cycle's problem now." 

Anyway - I see your point. Captive audience and all that.

I've heard it postulated that, since our assumption in IT is that you're passed out somewhere on earth, likely near the beam, that if you are indecisive and lay passed out there too long, reaper forces will eventually find you and put you out of your misery. Or that harbinger/starbinger gives up on you and lets you die, since you've become so indecisive, that's not the Commander Shepard he wants/needs as an indoctrinated agent.

Also, hey, it's possible that as you lay there, passed out and indecisive, the crucible does get blown up, since it's still near earth and hasn't docked yet (since being on the citadel is a hallucination according to IT).

Could work. I personally hope the IT holds true. But hey, question everything right?

On a side note - was just informed my a little bird reading over my shoulder that someone may have played on my account while I was out having lunch. "But I didn't do anything but walk around and shoot the gun."

Sorry - the standing still triggering the crucible explosion is still unconfirmed. :/

[HellishFiend]

CanadianGunshy wrote...


On a side note - was just informed my a little bird reading over my shoulder that someone may have played on my account while I was out having lunch. "But I didn't do anything but walk around and shoot the gun."

Sorry - the standing still triggering the crucible explosion is still unconfirmed. :/

Gotcha. Dont worry about trying to confirm it, it's really not that big a deal. 

[CanadianGunshy]

Still - is a sneaky trap:

I find the idea of killing allies an anathema to being a paragon shepard.
If the reapers needed someone to be indoctrinated all they need to do is have a few AIs that have sympathetic to them and suddenly control starts looking like a good option. Well - presuming that the guy that is being indoctrinated actually gives a care about what happens top AIs.

[Turbo_J]

Someone else with better capture software is going to have to do this or back it up with a real time sighting or bindicam capture. As soon as I try to process the video, the fog bleeds into and muddies the image. I can't even get as good a still as the one in the pic a few pages back... below for ref... the image is taken from where you can first spot the clock.

Ignore the red line. Look for the hands... It's 1:30 AM

Modifié par Turbo_J, 07 juin 2012 - 05:57 .

[Starbuck8]

CanadianGunshy wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

CanadianGunshy wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

CanadianGunshy wrote...

A quick point: If he is being indoctrinated - how come the crucible can be destroyed before he makes his choice?

My first playthrough I couldn't make up my mind and eventually got a message "The crucible has been destroyed by the reapers." It was a critical mission failure and had to start again.

If he is being indoctrinated = by the reasoning so far he only becomes indoctrinated when he chooses Control or Synthesis. By not making a choice at all, technically he shouldn't end up indoctrinated or 'dead' and having to start the entire mission over. (Which sucked by the way).

It's a common misconception that taking too long to choose causes "the Crucible is destroyed" game over. It only happens if you pass a certain point on each path and then try to double back. I think the reason is that passing a certain point on each path triggers an irreversible asset loading process, and if you try to double back, the game has no choice but to force you to restart the scene, and they needed to come up with a game over message for you.

The only thing I find interesting about it is that they chose "The Crucible has been destroyed" instead of just having Shepard fall over dead the way he does outside the beam if you walk the wrong way. 

Had not actually gone down a path yet. Was standing there with the kid behind me going: 

All of these choices are unspeakable horrors. Was a little relieved when the crucible was destroyed and Shepard didn't end up choosing to commit an atrocity.

Apparently I took too long.

Was a little disappointed there was no cinematic to let me go: 

"Well, its the next cycle's problem now." 

Anyway - I see your point. Captive audience and all that.

I've heard it postulated that, since our assumption in IT is that you're passed out somewhere on earth, likely near the beam, that if you are indecisive and lay passed out there too long, reaper forces will eventually find you and put you out of your misery. Or that harbinger/starbinger gives up on you and lets you die, since you've become so indecisive, that's not the Commander Shepard he wants/needs as an indoctrinated agent.

Also, hey, it's possible that as you lay there, passed out and indecisive, the crucible does get blown up, since it's still near earth and hasn't docked yet (since being on the citadel is a hallucination according to IT).

Could work. I personally hope the IT holds true. But hey, question everything right?

On a side note - was just informed my a little bird reading over my shoulder that someone may have played on my account while I was out having lunch. "But I didn't do anything but walk around and shoot the gun."

Sorry - the standing still triggering the crucible explosion is still unconfirmed. :/

Lol! Well if you try again let us know.

And about the not being able to walk back from your choice, they should have just put starbinger in your way so they wouldn't have to Crit Mission Fail you. haha that would have been creepy.

[HellishFiend]

CanadianGunshy wrote...

Still - is a sneaky trap:

I find the idea of killing allies an anathema to being a paragon shepard.
If the reapers needed someone to be indoctrinated all they need to do is have a few AIs that have sympathetic to them and suddenly control starts looking like a good option. Well - presuming that the guy that is being indoctrinated actually gives a care about what happens top AIs.

The problem is that Starbinger in all likelihood is using out-of-context truths to imply things that are blatant lies. 

"You can destroy all synthetic life, if you want" - True, but he's referring to organics being able to destroy all their synthetic creations, if they want. It's being taken out of context as a suggestion that picking destroy = destroying all synthetic life. 

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...


And about the not being able to walk back from your choice, they should have just put starbinger in your way so they wouldn't have to Crit Mission Fail you. haha that would have been creepy.

Oh God. Now I'm going to have nightmares about turning around and Starbinger being right there, standing a few feet away from me and blocking my path.

Thanks for that. 

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

Someone else with better capture software is going to have to do this or back it up with a real time sighting or bindicam capture. As soon as I try to process the video, the fog bleeds into and muddies the image. I can't even get as good a still as the one in the pic a few pages back... below for ref... the image is taken from where you can first spot the clock.

I see something that looks like a circle tucked inside the red line, near the bottom V part of the red line. Are you suggesting that is the clock from Big Ben? Or am I not seeing it?

[balance5050]

Finally got my Cerberus Vangurd, sorry, off-topic.

[Starbuck8]

CanadianGunshy wrote...

Still - is a sneaky trap:

I find the idea of killing allies an anathema to being a paragon shepard.
If the reapers needed someone to be indoctrinated all they need to do is have a few AIs that have sympathetic to them and suddenly control starts looking like a good option. Well - presuming that the guy that is being indoctrinated actually gives a care about what happens top AIs.

Yeah, it still give me pause as well, but if you've gotten to know the geth and EDI as friends, then you know they would tell you to do it if it means wiping out the reapers once and for all. They even drop some dialogue hints near the end of the game saying as much.

Edit: ah yes and what HellishFiend said above, starbinger never outright says they will be destroyed, he is implying it in a very suspicious way.

Modifié par Starbuck8, 07 juin 2012 - 06:02 .

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Someone else with better capture software is going to have to do this or back it up with a real time sighting or bindicam capture. As soon as I try to process the video, the fog bleeds into and muddies the image. I can't even get as good a still as the one in the pic a few pages back... below for ref... the image is taken from where you can first spot the clock.

I see something that looks like a circle tucked inside the red line, near the bottom V part of the red line. Are you suggesting that is the clock from Big Ben? Or am I not seeing it?

Yeah, ignore the red lines. I did not put them there.

The clock is on an angle. Leaning to the left. I think it's reading 1:30 AM in this pic.

For Ref... it's 5 minutes after 10 at the Hades Cannon

Modifié par Turbo_J, 07 juin 2012 - 06:03 .

[HellishFiend]

balance5050 wrote...

Finally got my Cerberus Vangurd, sorry, off-topic.

For shame! For that, I predict that in your first silver or gold game as the Ex-Cerberus Vanguard, you will die no less than 3 times per wave, get instakilled by a phantom on waves 7, 9, and 10, and a banshee on wave 8 as well as the extraction. 

Yes, the banshees will come back just for you....

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...


Yeah, ignore the red lines. I did not put them there.

The clock is on an angle. Leaning to the left. I think it's reading 1:30 AM in this pic.

Hrm. I just played back gunslinger's high brightness version of the breath scene several times, and I cant see it. 

[RebelReya]

So what do you guys think of the "Shepard is a legend' message? All three endings get it. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense according to IT unless it's just BW messing with our heads and trying to sell DLC?

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...


Yeah, ignore the red lines. I did not put them there.

The clock is on an angle. Leaning to the left. I think it's reading 1:30 AM in this pic.

Hrm. I just played back gunslinger's high brightness version of the breath scene several times, and I cant see it. 

That fog gets in the way... any recording is going to have reduced quality... that's the problem I'm facing now. I can see it kind of ok in my bindicam footage, but it's a 1 gig file for the 30 or so seconds I recorded.

[HellishFiend]

RebelReya wrote...

So what do you guys think of the "Shepard is a legend' message? All three endings get it. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense according to IT unless it's just BW messing with our heads and trying to sell DLC?

Considering it is just a message/ad to the player, rather than a part of the story, I'm inclined not to give it any weight in either direction, honestly. 

It could make sense for either context, if you think about it. For IT, it could just be part of Shepard's hallucination, that he thinks he has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat, except he hasnt. You must build (or finish/complete) the legend by getting the DLC....

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...


That fog gets in the way... any recording is going to have reduced quality... that's the problem I'm facing now. I can see it kind of ok in my bindicam footage, but it's a 1 gig file for the 30 or so seconds I recorded.

I see your point. This video is in 1080p, but its only about 40 megs, and its likely that whatever encoder was used for it is allowing the fog to consume a good deal of the detail behind it. 

[Starbuck8]

HellishFiend wrote...

RebelReya wrote...

So what do you guys think of the "Shepard is a legend' message? All three endings get it. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense according to IT unless it's just BW messing with our heads and trying to sell DLC?

Considering it is just a message/ad to the player, rather than a part of the story, I'm inclined not to give it any weight in either direction, honestly. 

It could make sense for either context, if you think about it. For IT, it could just be part of Shepard's hallucination, that he thinks he has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat, except he hasnt. You must build (or finish/complete) the legend by getting the DLC....

I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

[Starbuck8]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...


That fog gets in the way... any recording is going to have reduced quality... that's the problem I'm facing now. I can see it kind of ok in my bindicam footage, but it's a 1 gig file for the 30 or so seconds I recorded.

I see your point. This video is in 1080p, but its only about 40 megs, and its likely that whatever encoder was used for it is allowing the fog to consume a good deal of the detail behind it. 

They have foiled our collaborative investigation with fog! Very clever BioWare...

[Starbuck8]

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

Hmm, good point!
Well maybe "reapers win" is when you try to walk backwards from your decision and the crucible is "destroyed". Yes, I'm kidding

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...

They have foiled our collaborative investigation with fog! Very clever BioWare...

Wouldnt put it past them, to be honest!  They know the effects of encoding and decoding full motion video from it's raw form just as well as anybody. 

[dreamgazer]

RebelReya wrote...

So what do you guys think of the "Shepard is a legend' message? All three endings get it. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense according to IT unless it's just BW messing with our heads and trying to sell DLC?

Considering the message never states when and how Shepard has become a legend, it's far from finite.

Semantics, but it's true.