55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Rosewind]

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

Exactly can't simply be I Win menu selection......

[Turbo_J]

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

I remember.
I still think that's the biggest hint Bioware has given. In Control/Synthesis you lose IMO.
It would still be kind of cool to have picked either one of those but still be able to break free of Indoc depending on previous choices (Rachni Queen)

I think Control will have an out. Synthesis, not so much.

Control + Collector base + Renegade = a way out.

[HellishFiend]

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

I remember.
I still think that's the biggest hint Bioware has given. In Control/Synthesis you lose IMO.
It would still be kind of cool to have picked either one of those but still be able to break free of Indoc depending on previous choices (Rachni Queen)

Agreed! I not only agree, but I hope so, too, because otherwise my first playthrough ended in failure due to me picking control. 

*hangs head in shame*



Curse my greed!

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

I remember.
I still think that's the biggest hint Bioware has given. In Control/Synthesis you lose IMO.
It would still be kind of cool to have picked either one of those but still be able to break free of Indoc depending on previous choices (Rachni Queen)

Agreed! I not only agree, but I hope so, too, because otherwise my first playthrough ended in failure due to me picking control. 

*hangs head in shame*



Curse my greed!

Mine too but it was an accident. I wanted destroy but had no idea where it was because I was still getting over the Anderson thing. I was taking a closer look and lost control of Shep. I alt F4ed. One thing I wish I had done was walk away from the computer for a bit before going up the majic elevator. I really liked Anderson and I had no idea at the time he was Sheps 'good side'. Though the 'ages since I just sat down...' You! Desk jockey? Get real.

Oh, hindsight.

[Sajuro]

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

I think Shepard was effectively a legend when Liara began dropping off those time capsules all over the galaxy, so even if the Reapers win races like Stargazer's race will find recordings of Shepard.

[Turbo_J]

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

I remember.
I still think that's the biggest hint Bioware has given. In Control/Synthesis you lose IMO.
It would still be kind of cool to have picked either one of those but still be able to break free of Indoc depending on previous choices (Rachni Queen)

Agreed! I not only agree, but I hope so, too, because otherwise my first playthrough ended in failure due to me picking control. 

*hangs head in shame*



Curse my greed!

My first playthrough i picked Destroy, but mainly because of Anderson.
The Rachni Queen managed to stay un-indoctrinated twice. Maybe if you do end up becoming Indoctrinated, the Rachni Queen offers you a way out somehow.

Shiala to the rescue.

[Turbo_J]

Sajuro wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

I think Shepard was effectively a legend when Liara began dropping off those time capsules all over the galaxy, so even if the Reapers win races like Stargazer's race will find recordings of Shepard.

Okay, one of, if not the best point for that scene I've heard.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 07 juin 2012 - 06:37 .

[prettz]

You might just not lose in Control/Synthesis. it could be done it a way where you can keep playing but at the end to save the day you are given a choice to pop yourself in the head like Seran and TIM or not and doom everyone:devil:
and the destroy path you can overcome indoctrination.

[Rosewind]

HellishFiend wrote...

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

I remember.
I still think that's the biggest hint Bioware has given. In Control/Synthesis you lose IMO.
It would still be kind of cool to have picked either one of those but still be able to break free of Indoc depending on previous choices (Rachni Queen)

Agreed! I not only agree, but I hope so, too, because otherwise my first playthrough ended in failure due to me picking control. 

*hangs head in shame*



Curse my greed!

*hug*

It is okay not all of us are as great as me.... lol kidding, but it shows you how diverse people are when playing games that have choices that effect stuff sort of in this game at the end.

[HellishFiend]

Sajuro wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

I think Shepard was effectively a legend when Liara began dropping off those time capsules all over the galaxy, so even if the Reapers win races like Stargazer's race will find recordings of Shepard.

So? The message clearly states that he has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat, not by seeding commemorative trinkets across the galaxy. 

[Starbuck8]

Turbo_J wrote...

Mine too but it was an accident. I wanted destroy but had no idea where it was because I was still getting over the Anderson thing. I was taking a closer look and lost control of Shep. I alt F4ed. One thing I wish I had done was walk away from the computer for a bit before going up the majic elevator. I really liked Anderson and I had no idea at the time he was Sheps 'good side'. Though the 'ages since I just sat down...' You! Desk jockey? Get real.

Oh, hindsight.

Lol! I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was confused and wasn't sure which choice was which. So much emotion from the previous scene with Anderson, and Shep seeing that wound and passing out, I could hardly pay attention to what starbinger was really saying and what the choices were. I actually wanted to do synthesis, and guessed correctly. Indoc success. haha.

[Vox Draco]

I have a question concerning red/blue/green. It is not meant to find an argument against IT or something, I am just curious about the IT-interpretations. If it is too boring or uninteresting to answer by now after three months of dissecting the ending, I don't mind or take offense *laughs*, but I never really wasted much thought about this until recently (must be those damn synthesis-support-threats...threads...)

Destroy: You break free/deny the Reapers, I am fine with that

Control: TIM's approach to the whole situation, try to control what cannot be controlled, a false promise of superiority over an ancient race of beings that invented powerful and very subtle mind-control - you get indoctrinated

Synthesis: Why is it offered in the context of Indoctrination? Why are there two choices that basically lead to the same result, an indoctrinated Shepard?
 
If IT was planned, why bother with building in a third option and not just keep it renegade/paragon aka red/blue, take your favorite? Too easy to figure out for the player? Is green just a "diversion" , to make the last five minutes feel less like "choose between TIM/Anderson?"  And how is it connected to the EMS?

Has "green" a deeper meaning in the indoc-scenario than just "you lose like in control"?

[Sajuro]

I know this was discussed before, but relitigating ftw
When a beam gets relatively close to you on Tuchanka or Rannoch, bam, Game Over
On Earth when the beam gets close, game over
Opening , beams tearing **** up in flames and explosions.
ME1, Sovereign one shotting Turian Cruisers with his beams.
Now charge to conduit, ME3, you see soldiers getting killed and tanks getting blown up by Harbinger's laser beam, but when it comes for Shepard he just gets knocked back and melted armor, and when you get up you could see the bodies of your squad mates and there are soldier bodies on the ground in pools of blood, which wouldn't happen if they were hit by the beam and if Reaper forces had killed them then why didn't a marauder of cannibal just come by and execute Shepard when he was on the ground?

[HellishFiend]

Rosewind wrote...


*hug*

It is okay not all of us are as great as me.... lol kidding, but it shows you how diverse people are when playing games that have choices that effect stuff sort of in this game at the end.

Thanks.  I was actually shocked at how accurately the decision chamber choice reflects one's real life personality.  I've always been one to try and capitalize on every opportunity (read: take advantage of situations), and look for win/win situations whenever possible. Control seemed, at face value, to satisfy both of those aspects of my personality, so I bought into it. 

[Turbo_J]

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

ll PAYASO323 ll wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

I remember.
I still think that's the biggest hint Bioware has given. In Control/Synthesis you lose IMO.
It would still be kind of cool to have picked either one of those but still be able to break free of Indoc depending on previous choices (Rachni Queen)

I think Control will have an out. Synthesis, not so much.

Control + Collector base + Renegade = a way out.

Makes sense, i agree. I was also thinking that maybe in EC you will confront TIM fer reals and convince him to help you out. It would be cool to be working together with TIM

I also thought this would be a good option.

Get up, get better, head to Ilos, take the old mini relay to the Citadel, get Aria, go after Omega, get TIM; I think he's always been on Omega since shortly after ME3 started

Either kill him in a fight, paragon him and take him into custody, or renegade him to work with you. Depends on the Shep. e.g. An 80% + paragon with no collector base could not get him to work with you. etc.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 07 juin 2012 - 06:46 .

[Sajuro]

HellishFiend wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

I think Shepard was effectively a legend when Liara began dropping off those time capsules all over the galaxy, so even if the Reapers win races like Stargazer's race will find recordings of Shepard.

So? The message clearly states that he has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat, not by seeding commemorative trinkets across the galaxy. 

Look at it from an ingame narrative point, if he lost that simply means the primitive organics who found it assume that he ended the Reaper threat because everyone talks about the Reapers wiping out all Organic life, and they're still there, so the Reaper threat must have been ended and we can safely ignore the rest of the information on the device.
From an out of game perspective, saying "Yeah the Reapers won because of you, by DLC!" would have been a giveaway if it popped up after Control or Synthesis.

[HellishFiend]

Vox Draco wrote...

I have a question concerning red/blue/green. It is not meant to find an argument against IT or something, I am just curious about the IT-interpretations. If it is too boring or uninteresting to answer by now after three months of dissecting the ending, I don't mind or take offense *laughs*, but I never really wasted much thought about this until recently (must be those damn synthesis-support-threats...threads...)

Destroy: You break free/deny the Reapers, I am fine with that

Control: TIM's approach to the whole situation, try to control what cannot be controlled, a false promise of superiority over an ancient race of beings that invented powerful and very subtle mind-control - you get indoctrinated

Synthesis: Why is it offered in the context of Indoctrination? Why are there two choices that basically lead to the same result, an indoctrinated Shepard?
 
If IT was planned, why bother with building in a third option and not just keep it renegade/paragon aka red/blue, take your favorite? Too easy to figure out for the player? Is green just a "diversion" , to make the last five minutes feel less like "choose between TIM/Anderson?"  And how is it connected to the EMS?

Has "green" a deeper meaning in the indoc-scenario than just "you lose like in control"?

Synthesis makes sense as a choice in the context of IT because it represents Shepard agreeing to the Reaper philosophy that they are the pinnacle of not just evolution, but existence itself. 

Like I say in my sig, the indoctrination attempt just provides two different ways for you to cave in. One that capitalizes on your desire to have the ultimate win/win scenario (greed, Control), and one that capitalizes on your innocence, hope, and optimism (naivety, Synthesis).

As for what happens after, who knows....

[Turbo_J]

Sajuro wrote...

I know this was discussed before, but relitigating ftw
When a beam gets relatively close to you on Tuchanka or Rannoch, bam, Game Over
On Earth when the beam gets close, game over
Opening , beams tearing **** up in flames and explosions.
ME1, Sovereign one shotting Turian Cruisers with his beams.
Now charge to conduit, ME3, you see soldiers getting killed and tanks getting blown up by Harbinger's laser beam, but when it comes for Shepard he just gets knocked back and melted armor, and when you get up you could see the bodies of your squad mates and there are soldier bodies on the ground in pools of blood, which wouldn't happen if they were hit by the beam and if Reaper forces had killed them then why didn't a marauder of cannibal just come by and execute Shepard when he was on the ground?

Other than the Harbinger hit, I've never been killed or knocked out by a reaper beam on Priority: Earth. I've had the conduit watch dog come close to htting me, killing my squad, but doing almost no damage to Shep... not sure why. This was on insanity - where squadies are made of paper.

As for not being eaten by Husks... plot armor.

[HellishFiend]

Sajuro wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

So? The message clearly states that he has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat, not by seeding commemorative trinkets across the galaxy. 

Look at it from an ingame narrative point, if he lost that simply means the primitive organics who found it assume that he ended the Reaper threat because everyone talks about the Reapers wiping out all Organic life, and they're still there, so the Reaper threat must have been ended and we can safely ignore the rest of the information on the device.
From an out of game perspective, saying "Yeah the Reapers won because of you, by DLC!" would have been a giveaway if it popped up after Control or Synthesis.

I can see how your Stargazer interpretation could fit, though I have my own belief on it's significance.

As for the message to the players/out of game perspective, I stand by my interpretation that the message is just conveying the same thing that the hallucination conveys, that Shepard believes that one way or another he has ended the Reaper threat. No interpretation is conclusively definitive, though. 

[Sajuro]

Turbo_J wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I know this was discussed before, but relitigating ftw
When a beam gets relatively close to you on Tuchanka or Rannoch, bam, Game Over
On Earth when the beam gets close, game over
Opening , beams tearing **** up in flames and explosions.
ME1, Sovereign one shotting Turian Cruisers with his beams.
Now charge to conduit, ME3, you see soldiers getting killed and tanks getting blown up by Harbinger's laser beam, but when it comes for Shepard he just gets knocked back and melted armor, and when you get up you could see the bodies of your squad mates and there are soldier bodies on the ground in pools of blood, which wouldn't happen if they were hit by the beam and if Reaper forces had killed them then why didn't a marauder of cannibal just come by and execute Shepard when he was on the ground?

Other than the Harbinger hit, I've never been killed or knocked out by a reaper beam on Priority: Earth. I've had the conduit watch dog come close to htting me, killing my squad, but doing almost no damage to Shep... not sure why. This was on insanity - where squadies are made of paper.

As for not being eaten by Husks... plot armor.

Maybe it just hurt you a bit, but I remember trying to steer Banshees into that beam or gettting the beam to hit near them for a quick kill

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...


That fog gets in the way... any recording is going to have reduced quality... that's the problem I'm facing now. I can see it kind of ok in my bindicam footage, but it's a 1 gig file for the 30 or so seconds I recorded.

I see your point. This video is in 1080p, but its only about 40 megs, and its likely that whatever encoder was used for it is allowing the fog to consume a good deal of the detail behind it. 

Both of you brace yourselves, Holy **** moment incoming soon as I get a screenshot.

[HellishFiend]

Sajuro wrote...

I know this was discussed before, but relitigating ftw
When a beam gets relatively close to you on Tuchanka or Rannoch, bam, Game Over
On Earth when the beam gets close, game over
Opening , beams tearing **** up in flames and explosions.
ME1, Sovereign one shotting Turian Cruisers with his beams.
Now charge to conduit, ME3, you see soldiers getting killed and tanks getting blown up by Harbinger's laser beam, but when it comes for Shepard he just gets knocked back and melted armor, and when you get up you could see the bodies of your squad mates and there are soldier bodies on the ground in pools of blood, which wouldn't happen if they were hit by the beam and if Reaper forces had killed them then why didn't a marauder of cannibal just come by and execute Shepard when he was on the ground?

All valid points. Those all boil down to one giant contextual inconsistency that many of us believe to be one of the more compelling pieces of evidence in favor of the argument that Harbinger wants Shepard alive.

[Sajuro]

HellishFiend wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

So? The message clearly states that he has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat, not by seeding commemorative trinkets across the galaxy. 

Look at it from an ingame narrative point, if he lost that simply means the primitive organics who found it assume that he ended the Reaper threat because everyone talks about the Reapers wiping out all Organic life, and they're still there, so the Reaper threat must have been ended and we can safely ignore the rest of the information on the device.
From an out of game perspective, saying "Yeah the Reapers won because of you, by DLC!" would have been a giveaway if it popped up after Control or Synthesis.

I can see how your Stargazer interpretation could fit, though I have my own belief on it's significance.

As for the message to the players/out of game perspective, I stand by my interpretation that the message is just conveying the same thing that the hallucination conveys, that Shepard believes that one way or another he has ended the Reaper threat. No interpretation is conclusively definitive, though. 

I'm sorry you had to deal with all of the 'it's cool to be cynical' crowd, but that is a neat and meta theory.