55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...
If anyone wants to be, umm, entertained, check this out

http://masseffect.wi...rybody_Shut_Up.

The Milkman wrote...
Seriously, stop saying this is true beyond any shadow of a doubt.ALL of the evidence in favour of the IT is circumstantial.

Lol really? I don't think I've ever seen an ITer say that IT is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. We generally are careful to qualify our statements as speculation, our "proof" as possibilities or clues.

That and he says there's a lot of counter evidence, but I have yet to see something other than "Bioware is lazy/sucks at writing". I mean, I kind of  want to see something, just for the novelty of it

Ugh, I know, sorry if I refuse to believe that BioWare is that bad, and choose to give them the benefit of the doubt until EC is released.

Honestly the only counter-IT I've been able to think of myself would be a few times in the game it felt to me like it was ever-so-slightly foreshadowing the 3-choice ending in a literalist way. Even if it was, still doesn't preclude IT imo.

Well, Vendetta kind of foreshadowed Starbinger, but I don't believe anything Vendetta says, other than Kai Leng is indoctrinated

Mostly because they found a Prothean Beacon which is completely unrelated to a Prothean VI. It was made very clear in ME1 what both of those were and how they worked. They have nothing in common.

Shepard never actually used the Beacon!

Also how did the Protheans reach the conclusion that the Reapers were a part fo the cycle, but not the creators fo it? Liara in ME1 specifically adresses how hard it is to find anything on prevuis cycles, saying we know little of the Protheand and practically nothing of those before.

How did the Protheans, if vendetta speaks the truth, reach this conclusion?

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...
Honestly the only counter-IT I've been able to think of myself would be a few times in the game it felt to me like it was ever-so-slightly foreshadowing the 3-choice ending in a literalist way. Even if it was, still doesn't preclude IT imo.

I dont see how any potential "3-choice foreshadowing" is evidence towards a face value interpretation any more than it could support the IT interpretation. 

That form of foreshadowing is not literal; it's symbolic. And if you cite something symbolic as a piece of evidence, then fairness requires that you open yourself up to a ton of symbolic evidence that supports IT. 

[Starbuck8]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...
If anyone wants to be, umm, entertained, check this out

http://masseffect.wi...rybody_Shut_Up.

The Milkman wrote...
Seriously, stop saying this is true beyond any shadow of a doubt.ALL of the evidence in favour of the IT is circumstantial.

Lol really? I don't think I've ever seen an ITer say that IT is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. We generally are careful to qualify our statements as speculation, our "proof" as possibilities or clues.

That and he says there's a lot of counter evidence, but I have yet to see something other than "Bioware is lazy/sucks at writing". I mean, I kind of  want to see something, just for the novelty of it

Ugh, I know, sorry if I refuse to believe that BioWare is that bad, and choose to give them the benefit of the doubt until EC is released.

Honestly the only counter-IT I've been able to think of myself would be a few times in the game it felt to me like it was ever-so-slightly foreshadowing the 3-choice ending in a literalist way. Even if it was, still doesn't preclude IT imo.

Well, Vendetta kind of foreshadowed Starbinger, but I don't believe anything Vendetta says, other than Kai Leng is indoctrinated

Mostly because they found a Prothean Beacon which is completely unrelated to a Prothean VI. It was made very clear in ME1 what both of those were and how they worked. They have nothing in common.

Shepard never actually used the Beacon!

Yeah I was wondering recently if the VI was a plant... clearly Kai Leng/Cerberus had already been there since the scientists throats were cut...

Also the other one was in a convo with Hacket, he implies something about the catalyst focusing the crucible's energy in a certain way. Having played once already, hearing that convo game me a feeling of forshadowing the literal ending, in a way.

[Starbuck8]

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...
Honestly the only counter-IT I've been able to think of myself would be a few times in the game it felt to me like it was ever-so-slightly foreshadowing the 3-choice ending in a literalist way. Even if it was, still doesn't preclude IT imo.

I dont see how any potential "3-choice foreshadowing" is evidence towards a face value interpretation any more than it could support the IT interpretation. 

That form of foreshadowing is not literal; it's symbolic. And if you cite something symbolic as a piece of evidence, then fairness requires that you open yourself up to a ton of symbolic evidence that supports IT. 

Yeah I agree. There's way more symbolism stretching back to ME1 to indicate Shep's indoctrination within ME3.

[Vox Draco]

[quote]Starbuck8 wrote...
http://masseffect.wi...rybody_Shut_Up.[/quote]

[quote]The Milkman wrote...
Seriously, stop saying this is true beyond any shadow of a doubt.ALL of the evidence in favour of the IT is circumstantial.[/quote]

Lol really? I don't think I've ever seen an ITer say that IT is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. We generally are careful to qualify our statements as speculation, our "proof" as possibilities or clues.
[/quote]

Now I read a little about that Milkman-Blog...and stumbled about this pro-IT blog in the comments..
http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck

I am not an expert on IT but always thought I heard and read most of the evidence, but not this until now:


And, I beg of you, go back and replay that final scene we all hate. With the choice we must make. Walk right to the middle of the walkway between the three choices and, several times, begin to walk in each direction.
Listen to the music change.
The ‘control’ option is sinister, with a quiet humming dissidence. So is the synthesis. And the ‘destroy’ option rings brightly, a pleasant sound of uplifting hope and then fades away. It’s barely noticeable, broken by the jarring drumming sound, and it is only right at the start. But it’s there.

Just "wishful hearing" or also noticeable for the "hard of hearing" like me? Audio is always hardly a really good evidence, and sinister to one is "so what?" to the other but ... the use of music in movies and games is never coincidental and wants to create a certain mood after all...hmm...

I am close to play the game again just to take a look at all the stuff you guys and girls came up with, though I doubt I would ever see the little things without help...*sigh* If IT is true I guess I have to makea "Sixth Sense Run" through the series...

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...


Yeah I agree. There's way more symbolism stretching back to ME1 to indicate Shep's indoctrination within ME3.

Not only that, but there is a big piece of literal evidence that stretches that far back as well. Consider that everyone that has ever been indoctrinated (save for the Zhu's Hope colonists) has been unaware that they've been indoctrinated. In fact, in many cases, strongly opposed to the idea that they are.

And the one time someone is able to come forward and admit that they're indoctrinated? What does she say?

"It is subtle at first. I thought I was strong enough to resist. Instead, I became a willing tool, eager to serve."

[HellishFiend]

Vox Draco wrote...


I am not an expert on IT but always thought I heard and read most of the evidence, but not this until now:


And, I beg of you, go back and replay that final scene we all hate. With the choice we must make. Walk right to the middle of the walkway between the three choices and, several times, begin to walk in each direction.
Listen to the music change.

The reason you havent heard of that is because it was debunked a while back. The music is on a static loop, and doesnt change based on your position. The author of that blog just got excited over a coincidence and cited it as evidence without properly testing it. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Vox Draco wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...
http://masseffect.wi...rybody_Shut_Up.

The Milkman wrote...
Seriously, stop saying this is true beyond any shadow of a doubt.ALL of the evidence in favour of the IT is circumstantial.

Lol really? I don't think I've ever seen an ITer say that IT is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. We generally are careful to qualify our statements as speculation, our "proof" as possibilities or clues.

Now I read a little about that Milkman-Blog...and stumbled about this pro-IT blog in the comments..
http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck

I am not an expert on IT but always thought I heard and read most of the evidence, but not this until now:


And, I beg of you, go back and replay that final scene we all hate. With the choice we must make. Walk right to the middle of the walkway between the three choices and, several times, begin to walk in each direction.
Listen to the music change.
The ‘control’ option is sinister, with a quiet humming dissidence. So is the synthesis. And the ‘destroy’ option rings brightly, a pleasant sound of uplifting hope and then fades away. It’s barely noticeable, broken by the jarring drumming sound, and it is only right at the start. But it’s there.

Just "wishful hearing" or also noticeable for the "hard of hearing" like me? Audio is always hardly a really good evidence, and sinister to one is "so what?" to the other but ... the use of music in movies and games is never coincidental and wants to create a certain mood after all...hmm...

I am close to play the game again just to take a look at all the stuff you guys and girls came up with, though I doubt I would ever see the little things without help...*sigh* If IT is true I guess I have to makea "Sixth Sense Run" through the series...

We've proven the "quiet humming" plays on a loop, regardless of where you move. Once it starts you can hit pause or esc and listen to it run through the loop in the background. Still sets a certain mood though, and seems to go through three main phases of "humming"

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 07 juin 2012 - 09:43 .

[Vox Draco]

HellishFiend wrote...
The reason you havent heard of that is because it was debunked a while back. The music is on a static loop, and doesnt change based on your position. The author of that blog just got excited over a coincidence and cited it as evidence without properly testing it. 

Ah okay *laughs* that spares me a lot of time putting my ears to the speakers! I am still trying to hear the two Shepards in Starbingers voice...I need better equipment to fight Indoctrination, I guess  

[BleedingUranium]

HellishFiend wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...


I am not an expert on IT but always thought I heard and read most of the evidence, but not this until now:


And, I beg of you, go back and replay that final scene we all hate. With the choice we must make. Walk right to the middle of the walkway between the three choices and, several times, begin to walk in each direction.
Listen to the music change.

The reason you havent heard of that is because it was debunked a while back. The music is on a static loop, and doesnt change based on your position. The author of that blog just got excited over a coincidence and cited it as evidence without properly testing it. 

Yep, if you listen to the track there are parts that sound like what's being described, and they just happened to play like that for the person that thought they found something. Thanks for bringing it up though, simply because I'd hope everyone who thinks they've found something new brings whatever it is up, it may be nothing, it may be huge


Blah 'd

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 07 juin 2012 - 09:48 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
The reason you havent heard of that is because it was debunked a while back. The music is on a static loop, and doesnt change based on your position. The author of that blog just got excited over a coincidence and cited it as evidence without properly testing it. 

Ah okay *laughs* that spares me a lot of time putting my ears to the speakers! I am still trying to hear the two Shepards in Starbingers voice...I need better equipment to fight Indoctrination, I guess  

It's definitely there, female shepard + male shepard + the childs voice all together. Sometimes you just hear one voice over the other. Odd thing for Bioware to do, because Male shepard would know his own voice and the Child's but not femshep's voice. Same thing for Femshep hearing Broshep's voice.

[HellishFiend]

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
The reason you havent heard of that is because it was debunked a while back. The music is on a static loop, and doesnt change based on your position. The author of that blog just got excited over a coincidence and cited it as evidence without properly testing it. 

Ah okay *laughs* that spares me a lot of time putting my ears to the speakers! I am still trying to hear the two Shepards in Starbingers voice...I need better equipment to fight Indoctrination, I guess  

Yeah, hate to break it to you, but there are still a lot of reasons to put your ears to the speakers when investigating the ending. 

It's been put forward that the sparking/electric sounds on the approach to the TIM/anderson convo are actually distorted battle sounds.

It's also been put forward that the "echo" you hear from firing your gun in the decision chamber is not actually an echo at all; it's a whisper. 

In addition, you can hear several different sounds that a train makes as the cinematic for the control ending starts and Shepard goes to grab the handles of the console. 

There are more, I think, but those are the big ones I can think of off the top of my head. 

[BleedingUranium]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
The reason you havent heard of that is because it was debunked a while back. The music is on a static loop, and doesnt change based on your position. The author of that blog just got excited over a coincidence and cited it as evidence without properly testing it. 

Ah okay *laughs* that spares me a lot of time putting my ears to the speakers! I am still trying to hear the two Shepards in Starbingers voice...I need better equipment to fight Indoctrination, I guess  

It's definitely there, female shepard + male shepard + the childs voice all together. Sometimes you just hear one voice over the other. Odd thing for Bioware to do, because Male shepard would know his own voice and the Child's but not femshep's voice. Same thing for Femshep hearing Broshep's voice.

That just lead my mind to think "What if MaleShep romanced FemShep?"

[HellishFiend]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

It's definitely there, female shepard + male shepard + the childs voice all together. Sometimes you just hear one voice over the other. Odd thing for Bioware to do, because Male shepard would know his own voice and the Child's but not femshep's voice. Same thing for Femshep hearing Broshep's voice.

Also, you hear a very sinister sounding echo of Starbingers final, ultimate word: "choose". 

[HellishFiend]

BleedingUranium wrote...
That just lead my mind to think "What if MaleShep romanced FemShep?"

Probably the Mass Effect equivalent of this:

[Vox Draco]

HellishFiend wrote...
Yeah, hate to break it to you, but there are still a lot of reasons to put your ears to the speakers when investigating the ending. 

It's been put forward that the sparking/electric sounds on the approach to the TIM/anderson convo are actually distorted battle sounds.

It's also been put forward that the "echo" you hear from firing your gun in the decision chamber is not actually an echo at all; it's a whisper. 

In addition, you can hear several different sounds that a train makes as the cinematic for the control ending starts and Shepard goes to grab the handles of the console. 

There are more, I think, but those are the big ones I can think of off the top of my head. 

*sigh* I better wait for the EC, and if IT is confirmed I demand an official Bioware List with all clues put into the game on purpose, so I can go through it in one playthrough...

Too much symbolism is killing me already...the last five minutes...the EC should be shipped with a bottle of the strongest Canadian booze if it only wants to "clarify" the endings has to be taken literally...

[BleedingUranium]

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
Yeah, hate to break it to you, but there are still a lot of reasons to put your ears to the speakers when investigating the ending. 

It's been put forward that the sparking/electric sounds on the approach to the TIM/anderson convo are actually distorted battle sounds.

It's also been put forward that the "echo" you hear from firing your gun in the decision chamber is not actually an echo at all; it's a whisper. 

In addition, you can hear several different sounds that a train makes as the cinematic for the control ending starts and Shepard goes to grab the handles of the console. 

There are more, I think, but those are the big ones I can think of off the top of my head. 

*sigh* I better wait for the EC, and if IT is confirmed I demand an official Bioware List with all clues put into the game on purpose, so I can go through it in one playthrough...

Too much symbolism is killing me already...the last five minutes...the EC should be shipped with a bottle of the strongest Canadian booze if it only wants to "clarify" the endings has to be taken literally...

Well if you havn't seen it yet, here's Parabolee's collection of all the evidence ever. I'm pretty sure nothing we know of is missing.

I too would like Bioware to make an official list of clues and such, if only for all the annoying people who insist that one of the problems with IT is that we could never have seen it coming.Which, ironically, is only true of the literal ending.

[senshi420]

hey has anyone managed to post a low EMS control only ending video that's not filmed on a potato? I am asking because I'm still seeing IT cant be true because on low ems games they only give you destroy. and i know that's not true. I'm pretty sure its based on the choice made at the end of ME2 with the collector base. is that accurate?

[BleedingUranium]

senshi420 wrote...

hey has anyone managed to post a low EMS control only ending video that's not filmed on a potato? I am asking because I'm still seeing IT cant be true because on low ems games they only give you destroy. and i know that's not true. I'm pretty sure its based on the choice made at the end of ME2 with the collector base. is that accurate?

It is. Low EMS + saved base = control

[BleedingUranium]

Goodnight everyone, I hope I don't miss too much.

[HellishFiend]

senshi420 wrote...

hey has anyone managed to post a low EMS control only ending video that's not filmed on a potato? I am asking because I'm still seeing IT cant be true because on low ems games they only give you destroy. and i know that's not true. I'm pretty sure its based on the choice made at the end of ME2 with the collector base. is that accurate?

So what youre saying is, IT can not be true because of your interpretation of what it would mean if Destroy was the only option with low EMS, despite the fact that there is potato-filmed proof to the contrary? Interesting.

And yes, it is only possible to get Control with low EMS if you saved the collector base. That is why it is such an edge case. Most people who imported will also have more than enough EMS to have more than just one choice in the decision chamber. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

BleedingUranium wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
The reason you havent heard of that is because it was debunked a while back. The music is on a static loop, and doesnt change based on your position. The author of that blog just got excited over a coincidence and cited it as evidence without properly testing it. 

Ah okay *laughs* that spares me a lot of time putting my ears to the speakers! I am still trying to hear the two Shepards in Starbingers voice...I need better equipment to fight Indoctrination, I guess  

It's definitely there, female shepard + male shepard + the childs voice all together. Sometimes you just hear one voice over the other. Odd thing for Bioware to do, because Male shepard would know his own voice and the Child's but not femshep's voice. Same thing for Femshep hearing Broshep's voice.

That just lead my mind to think "What if MaleShep romanced FemShep?"

That'd be odd, if anything they'd be twins if they were in the same universe.

[senshi420]

HellishFiend wrote...

senshi420 wrote...

hey has anyone managed to post a low EMS control only ending video that's not filmed on a potato? I am asking because I'm still seeing IT cant be true because on low ems games they only give you destroy. and i know that's not true. I'm pretty sure its based on the choice made at the end of ME2 with the collector base. is that accurate?

So what youre saying is, IT can not be true because of your interpretation of what it would mean if Destroy was the only option with low EMS, despite the fact that there is potato-filmed proof to the contrary? Interesting.

And yes, it is only possible to get Control with low EMS if you saved the collector base. That is why it is such an edge case. Most people who imported will also have more than enough EMS to have more than just one choice in the decision chamber. 

not what i meant at all Hellish, im very pro IT, im just hoping to find better filmed proof of low ems control. so that when someone hits me with that arguement i can show them something better then the potato phone vid.

[Vox Draco]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...
That just lead my mind to think "What if MaleShep romanced FemShep?"

That'd be odd, if anything they'd be twins if they were in the same universe.

If Femshep and maleshep would ever end up in the same universe and make out...uh...I see the universe ready to collapse...or it could lead to the "Philip J. Fry" Paradoxon and create a Mega-Shepard with special brainwaves able to withstand any indoctrination-attempt!

Phew...and brought my comment right back on topic! Though the image of a Fem-Male-Mega-Shep is disturbing

[senshi420]

Vox Draco wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...
That just lead my mind to think "What if MaleShep romanced FemShep?"

That'd be odd, if anything they'd be twins if they were in the same universe.

If Femshep and maleshep would ever end up in the same universe and make out...uh...I see the universe ready to collapse...or it could lead to the "Philip J. Fry" Paradoxon and create a Mega-Shepard with special brainwaves able to withstand any indoctrination-attempt!

Phew...and brought my comment right back on topic! Though the image of a Fem-Male-Mega-Shep is disturbing

Commander shepard alliance drag queen?