55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

LaZy i IS wrote...

Such as?

Its been posted a few posts up and on the previous page.

[LilyasAvalon]

I have to seriously admire the dedication of believers of IT. ._.

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

There ARE fairly obvious clues throughout the game. Why do you think people like byne came up with this theory immediately after their first playthrough?

Maybe because they did 30+ playthroughs.

Bolded the important part. The first thread was made only a couple of days after release, not quite enough time to play it 30 times. And I'm pretty sure byne said it was after they finished the first time.

I was referring to byne's post where he wrote that he played the games 30+ times. Honestly, the fact that there was something different/weird about the ending wasn't really hidden so much. Anyway, I give him credit for discovering/publicizing some of the hard evidence supporting IT.

Modifié par paxxton, 16 mai 2012 - 03:50 .

[MegumiAzusa]

Icinix wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Its interesting because its used for cutscenes showing freedom, or events breaking Reaper control.

Freeing the Rachni and TIM shooting himself. In both those scenes Predator is used. Both of those times are someone breaking free of Reaper control.

And the Predator isn't used for almost every pistol cutscene, by default?

No carnifex is used for more....agressive actions in the game.

I think it's better to say the Scumbag Carnifex pops up when stuff can turn pretty bad but still have the option not to shoot when not using the interrupt. Compare that to scenes with the Good Guy Predator. Instead of having a renegade interrupt to fire you get a paragon interrupt not to fire.
Also looking at the scene where Udina opens the door and the Virmire Surviver blocks you.
You have a Good Guy Predator and can interrupt to put it down. The VS has a Scumbag Carnifex and "has a choice" to fire.

[balance5050]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I have to seriously admire the dedication of believers of IT. ._.

It's a curse, we can't rest until Shepard wakes up.

[SS2Dante]

Destructorlio wrote...

Well, it's a **** slap if you take it literally. If you subscribe to IT, it's actually a stroke of genius the likes of which has never been seen in gaming. Not that this will stop the literalists whining and nashing their teeth when it comes.

Must be tough being a literalist:

"Man, Fight Club, what a great movie."

"Yeah it was fun, but David Fincher REALLY screwed up when he had Tyler Durden just disappear after Edward Norton shot himself, I mean, what a continuity error!"

"No, that makes sense, because Tyler was in Norton's mind."

"What? No he wasn't!"

"Of course he was! Tyler says this himself."

"Aw, he was just messing with him. How could he be in his mind- we could see him, on the screen! He was clearly there! Norton talked to him- they even had a fight! Clearly he was real."

"But... even before Tyler reveals himself, what about all those scenes where he's there for a split second?"

"See, more glitches! Fincher is terrible, he must have, like, spilled frames of Brad Pitt onto those frames!"

"What about the scene where Marla CALLS NORTON TYLER DURDEN."

"Bad script! I mean, they REALLY dropped the ball on that script!"

"This is crazy! Tyler was in Norton's mind, this is just a fact."

"No, it's your fancy-pants liberal arts degree interpretation, trying to layer 'meaning' and 'symbolism' onto an otherwise fine movie that they just happened to royally screw up badly and made no sense. But you are screwing it up MORE by pretending that it was deeper than it was."

This, this, a thousand times this.

[DusalisDrake]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Ok, thsi thread is now well off topic and is closed.

You are welcome to reopen it IF you want to sensibly continue this discussion.


LOCKDOWN!

WTF?! I don't keep track of the thread for a few days and this happens?... Curse you trolls! *waves fist in the air*

Chris, I think you forgot something. These lockdown posts should be accompanied with something like these:

Direct intervention is necessary.
ASSUMING CONTROL OF THIS THREAD!
Throw a little Harbinger in there for good measure - would be fitting 

[MegumiAzusa]

Direct intervention is necessary.
ASSUMING CONTROL OF THIS THREAD!

This as lockdown message would be quite hilarious.

[dreamgazer]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I have to seriously admire the dedication of believers of IT. ._.

A key factor boils down to this: it's fun, and it provokes a sense of investigative interpretation that makes returning to the game a positive, engaging experience. Add in the fact that the clues offer more than enough logical ties to the lore and immediate narrative, beyond just that of individually-created plot perception, and you've got what you see now. 

[LaZy i IS]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Its interesting because its used for cutscenes showing freedom, or events breaking Reaper control.

Freeing the Rachni and TIM shooting himself. In both those scenes Predator is used. Both of those times are someone breaking free of Reaper control.

And the Predator isn't used for almost every pistol cutscene, by default?

No carnifex is used for more....agressive actions in the game.

I think it's better to say the Scumbag Carnifex pops up when stuff can turn pretty bad but still have the option not to shoot when not using the interrupt. Compare that to scenes with the Good Guy Predator. Instead of having a renegade interrupt to fire you get a paragon interrupt not to fire.
Also looking at the scene where Udina opens the door and the Virmire Surviver blocks you.
You have a Good Guy Predator and can interrupt to put it down. The VS has a Scumbag Carnifex and "has a choice" to fire.

I s'pose. Although, from the same scene, you get a renegade interrupt to shoot Udina, with the Predator. You
"have a choice" to fire. My point is, I can't recall a single pistol cutscene, apart from the ending, where the Predator is not used by default. Hence, it is possible that the pistols switching at the end is just that the game equips a Predator by default at some points.

[Tirian Thorn]

SS2Dante wrote...

Destructorlio wrote...

Well, it's a **** slap if you take it literally. If you subscribe to IT, it's actually a stroke of genius the likes of which has never been seen in gaming. Not that this will stop the literalists whining and nashing their teeth when it comes.

Must be tough being a literalist:

"Man, Fight Club, what a great movie."

"Yeah it was fun, but David Fincher REALLY screwed up when he had Tyler Durden just disappear after Edward Norton shot himself, I mean, what a continuity error!"

"No, that makes sense, because Tyler was in Norton's mind."

"What? No he wasn't!"

"Of course he was! Tyler says this himself."

"Aw, he was just messing with him. How could he be in his mind- we could see him, on the screen! He was clearly there! Norton talked to him- they even had a fight! Clearly he was real."

"But... even before Tyler reveals himself, what about all those scenes where he's there for a split second?"

"See, more glitches! Fincher is terrible, he must have, like, spilled frames of Brad Pitt onto those frames!"

"What about the scene where Marla CALLS NORTON TYLER DURDEN."

"Bad script! I mean, they REALLY dropped the ball on that script!"

"This is crazy! Tyler was in Norton's mind, this is just a fact."

"No, it's your fancy-pants liberal arts degree interpretation, trying to layer 'meaning' and 'symbolism' onto an otherwise fine movie that they just happened to royally screw up badly and made no sense. But you are screwing it up MORE by pretending that it was deeper than it was."

This, this, a thousand times this.

Yes.  That is really really good. 

[balance5050]

LaZy i IS wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Its interesting because its used for cutscenes showing freedom, or events breaking Reaper control.

Freeing the Rachni and TIM shooting himself. In both those scenes Predator is used. Both of those times are someone breaking free of Reaper control.

And the Predator isn't used for almost every pistol cutscene, by default?

No carnifex is used for more....agressive actions in the game.

I think it's better to say the Scumbag Carnifex pops up when stuff can turn pretty bad but still have the option not to shoot when not using the interrupt. Compare that to scenes with the Good Guy Predator. Instead of having a renegade interrupt to fire you get a paragon interrupt not to fire.
Also looking at the scene where Udina opens the door and the Virmire Surviver blocks you.
You have a Good Guy Predator and can interrupt to put it down. The VS has a Scumbag Carnifex and "has a choice" to fire.

I s'pose. Although, from the same scene, you get a renegade interrupt to shoot Udina, with the Predator. You
"have a choice" to fire. My point is, I can't recall a single pistol cutscene, apart from the ending, where the Predator is not used by default. Hence, it is possible that the pistols switching at the end is just that the game equips a Predator by default at some points.

You use the Carnifex when talking to Mordin for the last time I believe, whether you shoot him or not. If you do shoot him he throws his gun away in disgust.

Modifié par balance5050, 16 mai 2012 - 03:39 .

[MegumiAzusa]

LaZy i IS wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Its interesting because its used for cutscenes showing freedom, or events breaking Reaper control.

Freeing the Rachni and TIM shooting himself. In both those scenes Predator is used. Both of those times are someone breaking free of Reaper control.

And the Predator isn't used for almost every pistol cutscene, by default?

No carnifex is used for more....agressive actions in the game.

I think it's better to say the Scumbag Carnifex pops up when stuff can turn pretty bad but still have the option not to shoot when not using the interrupt. Compare that to scenes with the Good Guy Predator. Instead of having a renegade interrupt to fire you get a paragon interrupt not to fire.
Also looking at the scene where Udina opens the door and the Virmire Surviver blocks you.
You have a Good Guy Predator and can interrupt to put it down. The VS has a Scumbag Carnifex and "has a choice" to fire.

I s'pose. Although, from the same scene, you get a renegade interrupt to shoot Udina, with the Predator. You
"have a choice" to fire. My point is, I can't recall a single pistol cutscene, apart from the ending, where the Predator is not used by default. Hence, it is possible that the pistols switching at the end is just that the game equips a Predator by default at some points.

But your first interrupt is whether or not to shoot the VS.
In the scene with Mordin you can only Renegade interrupt to fire. In the scene with Wrex you can only interrupt to pick it up and fire. Both of them sport the Scumbag Carnifex.

[SS2Dante]

Dwailing wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

I'm actually more interested in the fact that it apparently only occurs specifically in the "breath" destroy ending.  Would love it if somebody could confirm this.

If this is true.  It is pure undeniable PROOF.  Not a glitch, not a bug, not random evidence provided by those in denial, but actual PROOF.  I hope it's true.

Uh, based on what I watched, it looks like it occurs in both the bad and the breath versions of the Destroy ending.  However, the simple fact that it happens is evidence enough, if you ask me.

Just wanted to point out that if the gun DIDN'T change in the low EMS red ending, that would actually be evidence AGAINST IT, not for it.  The gun not changing in low EMS would go against the symbolism. The gun changes cos Shep makes the right choice and breaks the indoctrination. This happens whether or not you wake up, so the gun should stay the same.

Symbolism, people. It's important.

[LaZy i IS]

balance5050 wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Its interesting because its used for cutscenes showing freedom, or events breaking Reaper control.

Freeing the Rachni and TIM shooting himself. In both those scenes Predator is used. Both of those times are someone breaking free of Reaper control.

And the Predator isn't used for almost every pistol cutscene, by default?

No carnifex is used for more....agressive actions in the game.

I think it's better to say the Scumbag Carnifex pops up when stuff can turn pretty bad but still have the option not to shoot when not using the interrupt. Compare that to scenes with the Good Guy Predator. Instead of having a renegade interrupt to fire you get a paragon interrupt not to fire.
Also looking at the scene where Udina opens the door and the Virmire Surviver blocks you.
You have a Good Guy Predator and can interrupt to put it down. The VS has a Scumbag Carnifex and "has a choice" to fire.

I s'pose. Although, from the same scene, you get a renegade interrupt to shoot Udina, with the Predator. You
"have a choice" to fire. My point is, I can't recall a single pistol cutscene, apart from the ending, where the Predator is not used by default. Hence, it is possible that the pistols switching at the end is just that the game equips a Predator by default at some points.

You use the Carnifex when talking to Mordin for the last time I believe, whether you shoot him or not.

I did ask for an example of where the carnifex is used, so, thanks, I guess. But does this warrant the assumption that the switching at the end is to do with IT?

[SS2Dante]

Icinix wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

WinterCrow wrote...

Icinix wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Hey guys, anything new?

When choosing Destroy, carnifex changes mid in game cutscene to Predator....think thats been the big recent development.

I've been following all the screen captures about this and I still can't figure why this happens. It is way too hard to detect and doesn't directly imply anything, so I find hard to believe this was an intended clue. Does it make any sense code wise?

Like, there's a "dreamy" model of Shepard with one pistol, and then the "real life" Shepard with the other, and it changes cause the code says "dream ends here" right at that moment. Am I even making sense? lol

The Predator is a standard-issue pistol that is far more fitting for Shepard to stumble upon than the Carnifex. It may be seen as symbolic of that which is real and true to Shepard's nature, or (if you believe that the end is a true hallucination instead of a dream), a sign that the hallucination is giving way, as Shepard acts.

If you decide to release the Rachni queen Shepard takes a look at his gun (which is at that point a Good Guy Predator) from the sides, inspecting it. You know, like in the movies when someone looks at something that that person finds strange.
He then shoots that generator thingy that releases the queen.

I think its definitely a symbolic thing.

The first gun you get in the game is a Predator.

TIM shoots himself with a Predator.

Freeing the Rachni Queen is done with the Predator.

Scanning youtube for more moments in game where the Predator is used.

To be fair, someone pointed out that you kill Legion with a Predator.

Personally I think it's more that the Carnifex is used for bad things, while the Predator is Sheps "normal" gun.

[Stigweird85]

Can we move off the gun topic now? The evidence on either side is inconclusive.

To me the interesting point isn't when or where a particular gun is used(apart from Mordin that was significant) but that Carnifex apparently executioner whereas in Polish the gun is called Kat which also means executioner.

This suggests planning, as a simple brand would be universal i.e.(as I mentioned before) Coke and Pepsi don't have international varients it is always Coke.

[RavenEyry]

Killing legion isn't really a bad thing because he attacks first. Scumbag carnifex murders Mordin in cold, er, metal.

[UrgedDuke]

SS2Dante wrote...

Icinix wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

WinterCrow wrote...

Icinix wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Hey guys, anything new?

When choosing Destroy, carnifex changes mid in game cutscene to Predator....think thats been the big recent development.

I've been following all the screen captures about this and I still can't figure why this happens. It is way too hard to detect and doesn't directly imply anything, so I find hard to believe this was an intended clue. Does it make any sense code wise?

Like, there's a "dreamy" model of Shepard with one pistol, and then the "real life" Shepard with the other, and it changes cause the code says "dream ends here" right at that moment. Am I even making sense? lol

The Predator is a standard-issue pistol that is far more fitting for Shepard to stumble upon than the Carnifex. It may be seen as symbolic of that which is real and true to Shepard's nature, or (if you believe that the end is a true hallucination instead of a dream), a sign that the hallucination is giving way, as Shepard acts.

If you decide to release the Rachni queen Shepard takes a look at his gun (which is at that point a Good Guy Predator) from the sides, inspecting it. You know, like in the movies when someone looks at something that that person finds strange.
He then shoots that generator thingy that releases the queen.

I think its definitely a symbolic thing.

The first gun you get in the game is a Predator.

TIM shoots himself with a Predator.

Freeing the Rachni Queen is done with the Predator.

Scanning youtube for more moments in game where the Predator is used.

To be fair, someone pointed out that you kill Legion with a Predator.

Personally I think it's more that the Carnifex is used for bad things, while the Predator is Sheps "normal" gun.

skip to 4:13

[LaZy i IS]

bigstig wrote...

Can we move off the gun topic now? The evidence on either side is inconclusive.

This.
Although, same can be said for most of IT.

Modifié par LaZy i IS, 16 mai 2012 - 03:59 .

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

Killing legion isn't really a bad thing because he attacks first.

You definately haven't understood this part of the game. Legion faces the annihilation of his entire species. He doesn't attack first.

Modifié par paxxton, 16 mai 2012 - 04:16 .

[dreamgazer]

I won't lie: I have an issue with the gun as evidence---not the implications behind each gun and whether BioWare would employ the logic in this scenario, but the fact that you have to whip out a magnifying glass and a pause button to tell that it went from Carnifex to Predator. I wish the game would have shown Shepard haphazardly dropping the Predator at the end, after focusing shots so intently on the Carnifex. In this form, if intended, it's like BioWare included a needle-in-a-haystack clue that almost all audiences would never perceive.

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...

FFZero wrote...

FFZero wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

^For the above I have something of possible relevance:

^What it looks like this is for is (pretty much as it says) rapidly changing the in-use weapon model mid-scene.
I don't see anywhere else in the game it's used...

I'm not 100% sure but it doesn't look like it loads a different model, just a different animation for the gun.

TSA_383 wrote...
You sure? It doesn't need to load the model, because it already loads both the predator and the carnifex when you pick destroy.

Like I said I’m not 100% sure, I’m still getting my head around coding. It looks like it's just loading animation sequences but I’ll poke around the ending files a bit and see if I can make some more sense of it.

I just found something totally relevant to this thread.

That file is used by the game to perform an "instant weapon switch" - confirmed by using an unreal engine editor.
So yes, the pistol swap does happen, and it is intentional.

quoting for awesome find!

[RavenEyry]

paxxton wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Killing legion isn't really a bad thing because he attacks first.

You definately haven't understood this part of the game. Legion faces the annihilation of his entire species. He doesn't attack first.

I fully understand WHY he attacked you. I'm just saying killing him in self defense isn't an 'evil' action.

[SS2Dante]

LaZy i IS wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Icinix wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Its interesting because its used for cutscenes showing freedom, or events breaking Reaper control.

Freeing the Rachni and TIM shooting himself. In both those scenes Predator is used. Both of those times are someone breaking free of Reaper control.

And the Predator isn't used for almost every pistol cutscene, by default?

No carnifex is used for more....agressive actions in the game.

I think it's better to say the Scumbag Carnifex pops up when stuff can turn pretty bad but still have the option not to shoot when not using the interrupt. Compare that to scenes with the Good Guy Predator. Instead of having a renegade interrupt to fire you get a paragon interrupt not to fire.
Also looking at the scene where Udina opens the door and the Virmire Surviver blocks you.
You have a Good Guy Predator and can interrupt to put it down. The VS has a Scumbag Carnifex and "has a choice" to fire.

I s'pose. Although, from the same scene, you get a renegade interrupt to shoot Udina, with the Predator. You
"have a choice" to fire. My point is, I can't recall a single pistol cutscene, apart from the ending, where the Predator is not used by default. Hence, it is possible that the pistols switching at the end is just that the game equips a Predator by default at some points.

You use the Carnifex when talking to Mordin for the last time I believe, whether you shoot him or not.

I did ask for an example of where the carnifex is used, so, thanks, I guess. But does this warrant the assumption that the switching at the end is to do with IT?

The Predator gun files are ONLY present in the red ending, not the blue or green ones, so it's extremely unlikely its a glitch of any kind.

It's another situation where the red ending gets special treatment, for no apparent reason....