55528 réponses à ce sujet

[llbountyhunter]

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

[D.Sharrah]

Corik wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Well...it only took like 2.5 hours for me to catch up with everything that was discussed last night. Definetly some interesting things that have been discussed...as for the breath scene, I don't doubt that there is something there, but I can't help but to think that there might be a slight case of pareidolia going on...its very easy for our minds to try to make sense of what is there. Here is a perfect example from a study at Cambridge...

"O lny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, t he olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rgh it pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs psas it on !!"

I have to agree. I said previously that I may be biased because of my job. Still I find it quite funny how everybody were talking about a clock or a cathedral in the fog where I couldn't see anything and something I never gave importance like the building I said in my last posts because it was soooo clear to me that I always thought that wasn't important at all, nobody seems to see what I see.

Funny. Unsettling, but funny.

Also remember that Mac has a degree in psychology...so he probably has a good idea how the mind works and is more than likely aware of/familiar with these phenomena...I see it being very likely that he would find ways to mess with our minds in more than one way.

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 07 juin 2012 - 03:22 .

[Lord Luc1fer]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The Mass Effect Universe fansite has published its survey results. The site is mostly in German but the data analysis is also in English.
http://www.masseffec...se.de/feedback/

It's awesome to see how many people like the indoctrination theory!

 That survey showed me just how 'typical' I am.
Choose destroy, kept default broshep face, romanced Liara, used her and Garrus as Squadmates and believe in IT.

Same here, though I romanced Miranda first. Then again, she's by far the most popular ME2 romance, by about the same ratio as Liara > Other ME1 so...

Woah same, romanced miranda as I played me2 for a long time without import.. I guess we're both boring typical players...

[Turbo_J]

Corik wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Well...it only took like 2.5 hours for me to catch up with everything that was discussed last night. Definetly some interesting things that have been discussed...as for the breath scene, I don't doubt that there is something there, but I can't help but to think that there might be a slight case of pareidolia going on...its very easy for our minds to try to make sense of what is there. Here is a perfect example from a study at Cambridge...

"O lny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, t he olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rgh it pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs psas it on !!"

I have to agree. I said previously that I may be biased because of my job. Still I find it quite funny how everybody were talking about a clock or a cathedral in the fog where I couldn't see anything and something I never gave importance like the building I said in my last posts because it was soooo clear to me that I always thought that wasn't important at all, nobody seems to see what I see.

Funny. Unsettling, but funny.

I see it. I've always seen it. If I can see the damn clock, not seeing what looks like a building would be...

[paxxton]

Turbo_J wrote...

Corik wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Well...it only took like 2.5 hours for me to catch up with everything that was discussed last night. Definetly some interesting things that have been discussed...as for the breath scene, I don't doubt that there is something there, but I can't help but to think that there might be a slight case of pareidolia going on...its very easy for our minds to try to make sense of what is there. Here is a perfect example from a study at Cambridge...

"O lny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, t he olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rgh it pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs psas it on !!"

I have to agree. I said previously that I may be biased because of my job. Still I find it quite funny how everybody were talking about a clock or a cathedral in the fog where I couldn't see anything and something I never gave importance like the building I said in my last posts because it was soooo clear to me that I always thought that wasn't important at all, nobody seems to see what I see.

Funny. Unsettling, but funny.

I see it. I've always seen it. If I can see the damn clock, not seeing what looks like a building would be...

What clock?

[EpyonX3]

bigstig wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

When was this promised? Also couldn't the "Reapers Win" ending simply be a game over screen with perhaps a short cut scene showing some Repear devestatation? For example, if you wait for the timer to hit 0 on the arrival DLC then you say a short video10-15seconds of various people being burnt/huskified.

I'd like a link to that too. I remember reading the exact opposite, that we don't have a reaper win ending.

[spotlessvoid]

Hale's voice sounds weird because she is intentionally altering it to sound tougher. It has a fakeness to it. All husky and breathy. Meer sounds essentially identical in real life. It feels more natural because it is.

[D.Sharrah]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

As far as this goes...I do not think that the whole mission can be interperted as 100% hallucination...I ascribe to the "waking nightmare" theory...and what we see in London is a mix of reality and hallucination.  In that sense, what we "see" isn't always accurate, but it may have real world implications nonetheless.

[Turbo_J]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

I see your point, but that argument could send us back to Alliance HQ.

The park - not there. It literally disappears when the Reaper beam blows out the AHQ windows.

The kid traveling 1/2 a mile and up a 6 story building onto a balcony in less than 10 minutes... not possible. Especially given there is no way off the roof the park was on without him likely falling and breaking his neck.

[Turbo_J]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Hale's voice sounds weird because she is intentionally altering it to sound tougher. It has a fakeness to it. All husky and breathy. Meer sounds essentially identical in real life. It feels more natural because it is.

He does not sound like Shep IRL at all. His real voice actually has inflections.

[D.Sharrah]

Turbo_J wrote...

Corik wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Well...it only took like 2.5 hours for me to catch up with everything that was discussed last night. Definetly some interesting things that have been discussed...as for the breath scene, I don't doubt that there is something there, but I can't help but to think that there might be a slight case of pareidolia going on...its very easy for our minds to try to make sense of what is there. Here is a perfect example from a study at Cambridge...

"O lny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, t he olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rgh it pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs psas it on !!"

I have to agree. I said previously that I may be biased because of my job. Still I find it quite funny how everybody were talking about a clock or a cathedral in the fog where I couldn't see anything and something I never gave importance like the building I said in my last posts because it was soooo clear to me that I always thought that wasn't important at all, nobody seems to see what I see.

Funny. Unsettling, but funny.

I see it. I've always seen it. If I can see the damn clock, not seeing what looks like a building would be...

I added an edit...suggesting that even if it is pareidolia, it doesn't mean that its wrong...it just that it is our mind trying to make sense of an incomplete image...the quote from the Cambridge study shows that our mind is quite capable of making sense of something that seems not to make sense at first glance...

[Corik]

Turbo_J wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

I see your point, but that argument could send us back to Alliance HQ.

The park - not there. It literally disappears when the Reaper beam blows out the AHQ windows.

The kid traveling 1/2 a mile and up a 6 story building onto a balcony in less than 10 minutes... not possible. Especially given there is no way off the roof the park was on without him likely falling and breaking his neck.

When I was reading the bolded part I said "I wish!". I hate The Illusive Boy.

[paxxton]

Don't tell me that metal circle in the breath scene is a part of Big Ben.

[dreamgazer]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

Something realistic that I think players might want to think about as well:

Saying all of Priority: Earth was a hallucination would also imply that the goodbyes said right before the last mission were, in fact, all a product of Shepard's mind, and not real.  BioWare are inventive guys and they're willing to take some risks, but that might ruffle a few more feathers than they're willing to ruffle.  The Liara romancers who thought the "gift" was beautiful, those who found poignancy in the conversation with EDI, Garrus' statement about "forgive the subordination" ... all merely figments of indoctrination, and the impressions built over them were fake emotions generated over something that wasn't really there.  That's a level of manipulation I'm not sure they'd execute.

Unless, of course, they have "take two" of the goodbyes hidden under their belt and ready for the EC, stock-piled and ready to sweep in for more base pleasure.  Still, something to think about.  I think they're capable of twisting the ending's pragmatism around, without question, but not the final conversations had with the characters everyone's grown to love. 

I could be wrong, but ... that'd be harsh.

[EpyonX3]

Turbo_J wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

http://www.youtube.c...a878v1ZQM#t=741

Shepard with shinny blood on his right hand and arm.

Yes, all the blood becomes shiny all of a sudden, but that doesn't change the fact that the camera looks down at his left hand and abdomen right before he staggers to the console.

Ok let's agree to disagree.

No... not yet...

Nor does it explain why after the ride to Starbinger the blood on the arm is mostly gone and dried up again and Shep is no longer bleeding out. Where is the medigel chest used to plug that hole?

I'm not sure why this is even up for debate. It's trivial. No blood, blood and camera focus, no blood.... simple. Tells me it happens in Sheps mind and symbolizes damage to his Resolve. Both TIM  and Anderson as reps of Sheps psyche are in Harbingers way. No matter what, both have to be removed before the trip up top. Especially (though I know not always available) if Harbinger hopes to get Shep to pick his perfect 'solution'

It's a visual effect. Nothing more. Just like Anderson's Armor is more defined and detaled than any other part of the game.

[BleedingUranium]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

I don't see this as being part of IT, so much as it's trying to make sure the player understands it's important. I was made clear at least twice in ME2 that Miranda wanted to put in a control chip, and didn't. Then she feels the need to very, very obviously talk about it again in ME3.

Why? So we remember that. Why it important that we remember the Illusive Man can't control us? Right.

So, why is it important that we know Anderson was born in London? Ideas?

Maybe, if Anderson is indoctrinated, and was indoctrinated in London, that "I" means "Indoctrinated Me" was "born" in London. I dunno, that's my only idea so far.

[llbountyhunter]

D.Sharrah wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

As far as this goes...I do not think that the whole mission can be interperted as 100% hallucination...I ascribe to the "waking nightmare" theory...and what we see in London is a mix of reality and hallucination.  In that sense, what we "see" isn't always accurate, but it may have real world implications nonetheless.

Thats what I think might be the case. kinda like in "a beautiful mind"

This is also why i think anderson looks at him weird.

[spotlessvoid]

Turbo_J wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Hale's voice sounds weird because she is intentionally altering it to sound tougher. It has a fakeness to it. All husky and breathy. Meer sounds essentially identical in real life. It feels more natural because it is.

He does not sound like Shep IRL at all. His real voice actually has inflections.

Sure, that's why I said essentially. What I meant was that it's his natural pitch. Hale tries to make her voice deeper and it strikes me as butchers. My opinion. Still love Hale though

[D.Sharrah]

Turbo_J wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

I see your point, but that argument could send us back to Alliance HQ.

The park - not there. It literally disappears when the Reaper beam blows out the AHQ windows.

The kid traveling 1/2 a mile and up a 6 story building onto a balcony in less than 10 minutes... not possible. Especially given there is no way off the roof the park was on without him likely falling and breaking his neck.

Again...waking nightmare.  The best real world example that I can think of is someone suffering a serious acid trip - they clearly see things that are not there, but the actions they take against these "visions" have very real real world implications....just think of Reaper's Indoctrination as very bad acid trip - the more force they exert with the attempt the more severe the hallucination.  And it makes sense that as Shep nears the goal their attempts would become stronger...

[Ravereth]

EpyonX3 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

When was this promised? Also couldn't the "Reapers Win" ending simply be a game over screen with perhaps a short cut scene showing some Repear devestatation? For example, if you wait for the timer to hit 0 on the arrival DLC then you say a short video10-15seconds of various people being burnt/huskified.

I'd like a link to that too. I remember reading the exact opposite, that we don't have a reaper win ending.

CLICK 

[Turbo_J]

paxxton wrote...

Don't tell me that metal circle in the breath scene is a part of Big Ben.

No... The clock survived as far as we see but that can be part of Sheps mind voyage.

The clock is in the background through the fog. It's almost impossible to see on YouTube vids and the like. A  direct max quality recording may give you a slight chance of seeing it, but in game cinematic is your best bet and if you don't know where to look or you blink, you'll miss it.

[Stigweird85]

estebanus wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The Mass Effect Universe fansite has published its survey results. The site is mostly in German but the data analysis is also in English.
http://www.masseffec...se.de/feedback/

It's awesome to see how many people like the indoctrination theory!

Went to have a look at the site, first thing I see is a blonde hair blue eyed Shepard -> A little on the nose don't you think on a German fansite?

----The above comment is made in jest, please do not take it too seriously

[D.Sharrah]

Ravereth wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I kinda like what someone said earlier, that yes, Shepard has become a legend blah blah, but that doesn't mean the last thing we just saw Shep do caused him to defeat the reapers. Couple that with "one more story" and that implies there is more to come (DLC, more to the ending... speculation). Still most people dismiss it as an ad from EA to buy DLC lol.

I disagree with that interpretation. We've been promised a "Reapers win" ending, remember? There will be situations where people who get that message go on to eventually lose to the Reapers rather than defeating them. 

When was this promised? Also couldn't the "Reapers Win" ending simply be a game over screen with perhaps a short cut scene showing some Repear devestatation? For example, if you wait for the timer to hit 0 on the arrival DLC then you say a short video10-15seconds of various people being burnt/huskified.

I'd like a link to that too. I remember reading the exact opposite, that we don't have a reaper win ending.

CLICK 

Don't have the links...but that's not the only time that its said...

[dreamgazer]

EpyonX3 wrote...

It's a visual effect. Nothing more. Just like Anderson's Armor is more defined and detaled than any other part of the game.

I really don't understand how you can look at that moment as nothing but a visual effect. But to each their own, I suppose.

[HellishFiend]

llbountyhunter wrote...

So is that "all of earth was a hallucination" idea still circling around? If so id like to bring some points up.

1. The cain.
So part of the evidence for the theory is that the cain doesn't shoot straight when shooting the hades cannon.

This is incorrect the cain DOES shoot straight. Pick up the second cain and shoot the banshee, straight shot. Obviously the first cain was their for dramatic effect. There's a difference from symbolism and theatrics.


2. Anderson repeating his birthplace.

Well this wouldn't be the first time a character does this. Remember miranda?

She tells about depating putting a control chip in shepard during her visit to the citadel. Then again on sancuary.why would she do that??? Might as well move the hallucination starting point again.

The tone of your first and last sentences suggests to me that youre biased because you dont want all of Earth to be a hallucination.

If you've been reading my posts, it should be quite clear that I am fully objective when analyzing evidence, and I happen to think that the Cain discrepancy is very compelling as a piece of evidence that something is wrong with that scene.

That is far, far too much of a discrepancy to accept as creative license. And I take the fact that there are two Cains there at all as an illustration that the manner in which the Cain takes down the Hades Cannon is off.

Answer me this: If its done incorrectly for dramatic effect, why have two Cains at all? Why have one which defies lore sitting right next to one that operates according to the codex? The "dramatic effect" explanation would be far more plausible if there were only one Cain. In addition, why not scrap the codex entry again like they did with ME2, since it contradicts the "theatric" version that we see? Or, why not alter the Codex entry to wrap the lore around the Cain as the way we see it? Sorry, it just doesnt add up to creative license, in my opinion. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 07 juin 2012 - 04:08 .