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[dreamgazer]

DJBare wrote...

We're all crazy here, there is a real world outside these forum's and we spend our time discussing the theory of indoctrination upon Shepard in a fictional universe.

Hey, I do both! Thanks to the glory of mobile devices and computer multitasking.

[HellishFiend]

Makrys wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
As I said in an earlier post, that scenario is not possible. If you see your squadmates dead by the beam, you get the Normandy Crash where noone steps out of the Normandy. The door just opens and it cuts to black. 

People have stated that it is possible to see dead crewmates and still get a full Normandy Crash scene, but I dont believe it since there is no proof. 

Well, I have seen it happen. And people have been talking about it recently. So I fully believe it is possible. And somewhat likely why the scene was cut.

Nice! It would be spectacular, and I would be personally grateful, if you could post some footage of that. Would it be possible for you to do so? 

[balance5050]

DJBare wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I feel like the crazy old man in the corner shouting out random stuff that people can't stand. And every once in a while I say something that people like or find funny.

That's how I view you as well.

We're all crazy here, there is a real world outside these forum's and we spend our time discussing the theory of indoctrination upon Shepard in a fictional universe.

That real world out there is just another work of fiction... things are only real because we believe they are real. Sure, when we focus to much on fictional universes our own reality dims for a moment but make no mistake, we live in tiny little boxes, we put on a costume everyday and commute to a slightly bigger box where we do a mundane task that has little to no effect on the well being of our planet. The "real world" is full of liars and shock value advertisements, most people get their world news from a corporate owned television station that has their own agenda. The only thing that can be considered real is our connection to Earth and eachother, and even that connection is wearing thin....

Now I sound like the crazy old man..... You were right DJBare....

Modifié par balance5050, 07 juin 2012 - 05:30 .

[paxxton]

Makrys wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Also, I was trawling YT and found this. Not saying it proves anything, not even sure if it's real, fake or has been posted already, but what the hell is this meant to be?

It's real, the deleted scene is in the Final hours app.

Edit, good grief this thread has a full head of steam!, did I miss something?

Am I the only one that thinks this was possibly deleted because it would have made the ending TOO obvious as a dream? I mean, if you clearly see your teammates killed by Harby, and then later see them step out of the beam, sirens would be going off everywhere. I wonder if they originally intended this as a clue, and then deemed it too obvious, so removed it. Curious.

They aren't torn into pieces, they just jump away. Maybe they escaped.

It specifically says they die. And if you don't have a high enough ems, your sqaudmates will die. This could have simply been a scene they were going to use to show that, then cut it for some reason.

Maybe, but the other 2 deleted scenes are from a very early stages of development and that's why they were cut. Maybe the 3rd scene also was cut because they changed the story.

[SS2Dante]

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Also, I was trawling YT and found this. Not saying it proves anything, not even sure if it's real, fake or has been posted already, but what the hell is this meant to be?

It's real, the deleted scene is in the Final hours app.

Edit, good grief this thread has a full head of steam!, did I miss something?

Am I the only one that thinks this was possibly deleted because it would have made the ending TOO obvious as a dream? I mean, if you clearly see your teammates killed by Harby, and then later see them step out of the beam, sirens would be going off everywhere. I wonder if they originally intended this as a clue, and then deemed it too obvious, so removed it. Curious.

If this scene was created with IT in mind, I doubt whoever was killed would appear at the end. However, it would be a great way to represent Shepards demoralisation. Friends all die, Shepard hopeless. Forced into the final choice, without anyone to help.

Course, if you did that it simply wouldn't work, cos the tone would be too depressing. Jars with the happy delerium of the end.

[HellishFiend]

dreamgazer wrote...
No, you're not alone in that at all.  

Seeing all your loved ones dying around you---no matter which ones you took with you on the storm to the conduit---would have been a pretty jarring, hyper-surreal element that has been indicative of dreams sequences in storytelling for a long time.  Remember, it wouldn't just be Garrus and Liara, more than likely; it'd be the two whom you took with you.  

Effectively, you'd be choosing who would die with every subsequent play-through.  But even as a cutscene, it's effectively killing off arguably the two heaviest hitters in the Mass Effect universe.  Uh ...

Keep in mind this is only in low-EMS situations, so you would not be "choosing who would die with every subsequent play-through".

I do agree though that the scene could potentially be intepreted as too heavy of a pointer towards surreality. 

[Makrys]

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

We've uncovered two very interesting topics over the last few days.

Symbolic evidence regarding Starbinger in the control ending (he becomes corporeal for a moment)

And more evidence that all or most London is affected by indoctrination, or is a full-on hallucination. 

That second one is huge since it offers so much wiggle room for interpretation. Hence all the discussion. 

I never heard about either of these two things. Could you summarize them? Sounds interesting.

I thought you were around for both? Maybe mistaken. Here is the find regarding corporeal starbinger:



To summarize, he becomes corporeal for a moment when the Control shockwave hits him. Considering we have a gun that, when shockwaved, switches to another gun that symbolizes breaking indoctrination (Saren, TIM), I think we can safely conclude that this is symbolic as well.

For London, we began discussing a pattern in the inconsistency of the weapons you use to take down the 2 Reapers. For the Hades Cannon, we use a Cain that is not a Cain, sitting next to another Cain that is a Cain. Make sense?  For the Beam Reaper, we use "Thanix Missiles", which is a contradiction in terms. The codex support both things as inconsistencies, since the codex entry for the Cain blatantly reveals the Hades Cannon Reaper situation as impossible anti-lore, and "Thanix Missiles" has no entry at all. It has also been pointed out that many of the combat situations in London are rehashes of prior engagements in ME1 and 2. 

What do you think its symbolic of? I mean, what exactly is that saying?

And that's very interesting about London. I'd be interested in learning what combat areas are rehashes from the previous games, and what they are rehashing.

I'm not going to lie. I would be very pleased if we got a new final mission and a new ending. But they already said no to the new ending, so I'm not sure how we can have a new mission leading up to it.

[HellishFiend]

Unschuld wrote...

DUDE!!!

No, I thought of something. Maybe someone already brought it up while I was asleep/away. Those scientists start sharing memories inside the derelict reaper and get confused. What if Anderson's "I was born in London" line is a result of him sharing memories with Coates or any of the other millions of people living there?

Quite possible! Great speculation. 

[DJBare]

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

Also, I was trawling YT and found this. Not saying it proves anything, not even sure if it's real, fake or has been posted already, but what the hell is this meant to be?

It's real, the deleted scene is in the Final hours app.

Edit, good grief this thread has a full head of steam!, did I miss something?

Am I the only one that thinks this was possibly deleted because it would have made the ending TOO obvious as a dream? I mean, if you clearly see your teammates killed by Harby, and then later see them step out of the beam, sirens would be going off everywhere. I wonder if they originally intended this as a clue, and then deemed it too obvious, so removed it. Curious.

Nope, you are not the only one, I stated it in the first thread when I found it in the Final Hours app, on the other hand they may have thought twice about kicking the fans while they were down, imagine the scenario, many were already upset at the endings, imagine adding the deaths of their favorite squad mates to the mix, the results do not bare thinking about.

Modifié par DJBare, 07 juin 2012 - 05:33 .

[HellishFiend]

SS2Dante wrote...

If this scene was created with IT in mind, I doubt whoever was killed would appear at the end. However, it would be a great way to represent Shepards demoralisation. Friends all die, Shepard hopeless. Forced into the final choice, without anyone to help.

Course, if you did that it simply wouldn't work, cos the tone would be too depressing. Jars with the happy delerium of the end.

That is a great way of putting it. Perhaps that really is why they cut it. 

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

snip...

Also...there is a similar instance in the synthesis ending...but its not as easy to see (either in vid or still)...I believe we have been waiting for someone to flycam the scene...I would, but alas I am on 360.   Not sure exactly what page it is...but there is a vid of it somewhere, and I believe the shift is around the 6:18 mark of that vid.  I'll see if I can find the link and post it in an edit...

Edit:  Back on page 546, Brought to us by Bleeding Uranium...

"AHA! I found something in the Synthesis ending! At the moment the scene starts Shepard drops the Carnifex. At the same time, in the background you can see Starbinger, and he turns real for a second (like in Control), and then disappears! "

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 07 juin 2012 - 05:45 .

[HellishFiend]

Makrys wrote...

What do you think its symbolic of? I mean, what exactly is that saying?

And that's very interesting about London. I'd be interested in learning what combat areas are rehashes from the previous games, and what they are rehashing.

I'm not going to lie. I would be very pleased if we got a new final mission and a new ending. But they already said no to the new ending, so I'm not sure how we can have a new mission leading up to it.

It's symbolic of the metaphoric "tool" used by Shepard when picking that particular choice. 

In Destroy, the gun is your tool, so it changes to "Good guy Predator'

In Control, Starbinger's persuasions are your tool, so he briefly changes to vent boy, since that is who Starbinger uses to manipulate your motivations. 

[Unschuld]

Turbo_J wrote...

Could you imagine a standoff like ME1 in the Citadel tower where Shep takes on the role of Saren and goes up against either:

The LI and most used quadie
or
LI and closest friend squadie
or
LI and Javik... etc.

or - Wild imagination and impossible as it would be a divergent story arc...

They incapacitate Shep, cryo freeze them and look for a 'cure' after winning the war.

200 years later... ME4

Liara haters would be appalled at that one though, as she's the only one that would be there to revive Shep... again.

Interesting, since there is an ice texture cubemap in the ending files. And yes, I would hate that.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

DUDE!!!

No, I thought of something. Maybe someone already brought it up while I was asleep/away. Those scientists start sharing memories inside the derelict reaper and get confused. What if Anderson's "I was born in London" line is a result of him sharing memories with Coates or any of the other millions of people living there?

Quite possible! Great speculation. 

But wasn't he in London with Sanders a while back? Could be that he was born there. But it is an interesting thought.

[dreamgazer]

HellishFiend wrote...

Keep in mind this is only in low-EMS situations, so you would not be "choosing who would die with every subsequent play-through".

Ahh.

Hmm. I dunno, in that case. If players are going to rush through the game, then they deserve a little knife-twisting in the vein of the Suicide Mission.  I was under the impression that the cutscene was a universal truth excised from the material.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...


But wasn't he in London with Sanders a while back? Could be that he was born there. But it is an interesting thought.

Oh, he was definitely born there. My excitement is regarding the possibility that we may, in some way, be seeing the effects of the memory sharing brought up in the derelict Reaper. 

[Makrys]

 I also find it quite weird that Shepard is the only one to survive the beam. Does anyone else find that odd? Also, how come when you get up from the beam, you see NO ONE? Where are your squadmates? Where is Anderson? Did your squadmates not follow you down? Why the hell wouldn't they, and if they did, where are they?

When you pick it apart, the scene where he wakes up after the beam makes NO sense. He was surrounded by many people and he just happened to be only survivor? Come on. This is almost direct proof that its a hallucination. Harby wanted Shepard. In his own mind. Alone. 

I just thought of this, and it really makes no sense why Shepard is the only survivor. And you turn around and see no sign of Anderson or your squadmates. Also, you can't see but maybe 50 feet in front of you. The far distance is clouded, blurry. Definitely seems 'dreamy' to me.

[paxxton]

OK, so who liked the Mass Effect 3 ending the first time you saw it? I did.

[Makrys]

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

What do you think its symbolic of? I mean, what exactly is that saying?

And that's very interesting about London. I'd be interested in learning what combat areas are rehashes from the previous games, and what they are rehashing.

I'm not going to lie. I would be very pleased if we got a new final mission and a new ending. But they already said no to the new ending, so I'm not sure how we can have a new mission leading up to it.

It's symbolic of the metaphoric "tool" used by Shepard when picking that particular choice. 

In Destroy, the gun is your tool, so it changes to "Good guy Predator'

In Control, Starbinger's persuasions are your tool, so he briefly changes to vent boy, since that is who Starbinger uses to manipulate your motivations. 

Gotcha. And these split second changes have got to be intentional. I mean, it seems way too coincidental otherwise. And they would be a bug? Eh.

[Rifneno]

Hey guys. Been preoccupied with MP lately. Anything major found in the past week(ish)?

Also, I had a thought. This is kind of reaching but if it is correct... epic symbolism/subtle reference. Remember how some of us were theorizing that perhaps Shepard never woke up from the third dream and is still on the Normandy before Cronos Station?

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

[HellishFiend]

Makrys wrote...

 I also find it quite weird that Shepard is the only one to survive the beam. Does anyone else find that odd? Also, how come when you get up from the beam, you see NO ONE? Where are your squadmates? Where is Anderson? Did your squadmates not follow you down? Why the hell wouldn't they, and if they did, where are they?

When you pick it apart, the scene where he wakes up after the beam makes NO sense. He was surrounded by many people and he just happened to be only survivor? Come on. This is almost direct proof that its a hallucination. Harby wanted Shepard. In his own mind. Alone. 

I just thought of this, and it really makes no sense why Shepard is the only survivor. And you turn around and see no sign of Anderson or your squadmates. Also, you can't see but maybe 50 feet in front of you. The far distance is clouded, blurry. Definitely seems 'dreamy' to me.

There are three major categories of evidence for IT: Symbolic evidence, Contextual inconsistency evidence, and Contradictory precedent evidence. 

The point you raise falls into both of the latter categories, making it one of the stronger pieces of evidence pointing towards the theory that Harbinger wants Shepard alive. 

[llbountyhunter]

paxxton wrote...

OK, so who liked the Mass Effect 3 ending the first time you saw it? I did.

I dont think you were supposed to like it....

[Sajuro]

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

We've uncovered two very interesting topics over the last few days.

Symbolic evidence regarding Starbinger in the control ending (he becomes corporeal for a moment)

And more evidence that all or most London is affected by indoctrination, or is a full-on hallucination. 

That second one is huge since it offers so much wiggle room for interpretation. Hence all the discussion. 

I never heard about either of these two things. Could you summarize them? Sounds interesting.

I thought you were around for both? Maybe mistaken. Here is the find regarding corporeal starbinger:



To summarize, he becomes corporeal for a moment when the Control shockwave hits him. Considering we have a gun that, when shockwaved, switches to another gun that symbolizes breaking indoctrination (Saren, TIM), I think we can safely conclude that this is symbolic as well.

For London, we began discussing a pattern in the inconsistency of the weapons you use to take down the 2 Reapers. For the Hades Cannon, we use a Cain that is not a Cain, sitting next to another Cain that is a Cain. Make sense?  For the Beam Reaper, we use "Thanix Missiles", which is a contradiction in terms. The codex support both things as inconsistencies, since the codex entry for the Cain blatantly reveals the Hades Cannon Reaper situation as impossible anti-lore, and "Thanix Missiles" has no entry at all. It has also been pointed out that many of the combat situations in London are rehashes of prior engagements in ME1 and 2. 

Also Makos being called Hammerheads, I heard "Most of the Hammerheads were destroyed" and I was like: No ****, Hammerheads are paper mache over an engine and some missiles.

[HellishFiend]

Rifneno wrote...

Hey guys. Been preoccupied with MP lately. Anything major found in the past week(ish)?

Also, I had a thought. This is kind of reaching but if it is correct... epic symbolism/subtle reference. Remember how some of us were theorizing that perhaps Shepard never woke up from the third dream and is still on the Normandy before Cronos Station?

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

motherofgod.jpg

[balance5050]

 GUYZ! I FOUND FOOTAGE FROM THE UPCOMING EC!!!!





"I'm a biotic god." 

Modifié par balance5050, 07 juin 2012 - 05:42 .