55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Makrys]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

An interesting thought, but that's probably reaching a bit too far.

For Bioware? Hell no, that is not reaching too far. Could it be a coincidence? Sure. But if true? It's just about conclusive proof that ME3's "Player Indoctrination ending" was planned from the very start. 

But it wasn't planned from the very start. The ME3 script went through numerous rewrites that had nothing to do with indoctrination.

Incorrect, indoctrination gameplay was on the verge of being in the final product.

That was the final script my friend, so of course it included indoctrination. The previous ones did not.

[Rifneno]

Makrys wrote...

But it wasn't planned from the very start. The ME3 script went through numerous rewrites that had nothing to do with indoctrination.

There's no way there's any credible evidence of that.  Of course they're not going to tell us if they planned it from the start since they haven't even told us it's true.  So any "developer/writer/whatever" says is out.
The fact that starbinger bears a creepy similarity to the Klencory thing shows either they DID plan it from the start or they want us to think they did by modeling it around an ME1 red herring.

[HellishFiend]

Makrys wrote...

Well, if you believe all the leaked scripts were fake... then sure. But I do not. Especially considering the current in game plot follows much of the plot found in at least one of the scripts. So I do not think they released them intentionally. The script leaks is why they rewrote parts of the game, IMO. Maybe they kept in some of the key themes, battles, conversations and such, but when back in and added in the indoc clues and whatever else they wanted to. 

Either way, I highly doubt the IT was the plan from the get go 5 yrs ago. It was no where to be seen in Karpyshyn's script as far as I know.

Ah, but the best lies are buried in truths, Makrys. Remember, we're dealing with the possibility of "Player Indoctrination" here. It stands to reason that we could expect Bioware to take deceptive real-world actions to enhance the experience and preserve the secret as much as possible. 

Remember, a hallmark of indoctrination is that you dont realize you're being indoctrinated, and you resent the possibility that you may have been. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 07 juin 2012 - 05:57 .

[Rosewind]

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Wanted to repost it...since it looked like it got missed...and this time you won't have to come back for the edit.

For what its worth, I did chime in and say I cant conclusively say that he corporealizes right there unless we get a close-up flycam view. 

He looks like it in control but in synthesis kinda looks like a trick of the light

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

But it wasn't planned from the very start. The ME3 script went through numerous rewrites that had nothing to do with indoctrination.

So we've been told. Would be far from the first time an author has spread misinformation about their work in order to preserve a secret. The actors and entire film crew for Star Wars were lied to and given fake scripts to preserve the secret that Vader was Luke's father until the last possible moment. 

Yeah Lucas was the only one who knew it up to the scene itself, Mark Hamill I beleive was told just before a first, fake scene with Obi-Wan beeing the one who killed Luke´s father and then after taht fake scene Lucas revealed it to the rest of the cast.

And to be quite honest. If IT is true then this twist will be as iconic and remembered as the father twist and most certainly will be the greatest twist ever in a videogame. Quite a feat when you remember that this same company did the Revan twist, essentially the "I am your father" twist of videogames.

Which is exactly a reason i believe they can pull this of.

[Makrys]

Rifneno wrote...

Makrys wrote...

But it wasn't planned from the very start. The ME3 script went through numerous rewrites that had nothing to do with indoctrination.

There's no way there's any credible evidence of that.  Of course they're not going to tell us if they planned it from the start since they haven't even told us it's true.  So any "developer/writer/whatever" says is out.
The fact that starbinger bears a creepy similarity to the Klencory thing shows either they DID plan it from the start or they want us to think they did by modeling it around an ME1 red herring.

Starbinger smiling has NOTHING to do with it being planned since ME1. Seriously. Especially since he wasn't introduced until the third game. All that is proof of is that his intentions are evil/Harbinger's. Which ties into the IT for the ending of ME3.

[ivenoidea]

Unschuld wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Could you imagine a standoff like ME1 in the Citadel tower where Shep takes on the role of Saren and goes up against either:

The LI and most used quadie
or
LI and closest friend squadie
or
LI and Javik... etc.

or - Wild imagination and impossible as it would be a divergent story arc...

They incapacitate Shep, cryo freeze them and look for a 'cure' after winning the war.

200 years later... ME4

Liara haters would be appalled at that one though, as she's the only one that would be there to revive Shep... again.

Interesting, since there is an ice texture cubemap in the ending files. And yes, I would hate that.

I haven't heard of that yet, could anyone show me a pic / tell me the file name? (Also, what's the tool used to access ME files called again? Something with "u" at the beginning i think.)

Edit: while we're at it: how do you activate flycam? I'd be willing to go check the synthesis ending with it.

Modifié par ivenoidea, 07 juin 2012 - 05:59 .

[llbountyhunter]

Makrys wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

An interesting thought, but that's probably reaching a bit too far.

For Bioware? Hell no, that is not reaching too far. Could it be a coincidence? Sure. But if true? It's just about conclusive proof that ME3's "Player Indoctrination ending" was planned from the very start. 

But it wasn't planned from the very start. The ME3 script went through numerous rewrites that had nothing to do with indoctrination.

Incorrect, indoctrination gameplay was on the verge of being in the final product.

That was the final script my friend, so of course it included indoctrination. The previous ones did not.

? Wasnt a script... it was  gameplay element. I personally think hey were thinking something along tje lines of IT since arrival, while still leaving their options open.

[Rifneno]

Makrys wrote...

Starbinger smiling has NOTHING to do with it being planned since ME1. Seriously. Especially since he wasn't introduced until the third game. All that is proof of is that his intentions are evil/Harbinger's. Which ties into the IT for the ending of ME3.

...  Yeah.  And starbinger smiling has nothing to do with Klencory. 

[DJBare]

Sajuro wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hey guys. Been preoccupied with MP lately. Anything major found in the past week(ish)?

Also, I had a thought. This is kind of reaching but if it is correct... epic symbolism/subtle reference. Remember how some of us were theorizing that perhaps Shepard never woke up from the third dream and is still on the Normandy before Cronos Station?

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

If that was true, then that would be why you are kicked back to the assault on Cronos Station and could explain all of the inconsistencies. But then why would there be a breathe scene? Wouldn't it be in Shep's cabin or the med bay?
Also a discussion for the clocktower, if the indoctrination dream is like Inception, then wouldn't time pass faster for Shepard while he is hallucinating/indocrtinated?

I'd said this myself back sometime in the distant past of this subject, but no one even wanted to consider it, they said that would mean everything from the beginning of cronos to the end was a dream, but let's consider it a waking dream, essentially Shepard does wake up on the Nornandy but the dream is still happening, for the most part things are real but with a dash of halucination that steadily get's worse as you continue on through to London and the beam.

Modifié par DJBare, 07 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[Makrys]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

But it wasn't planned from the very start. The ME3 script went through numerous rewrites that had nothing to do with indoctrination.

So we've been told. Would be far from the first time an author has spread misinformation about their work in order to preserve a secret. The actors and entire film crew for Star Wars were lied to and given fake scripts to preserve the secret that Vader was Luke's father until the last possible moment. 

Yeah Lucas was the only one who knew it up to the scene itself, Mark Hamill I beleive was told just before a first, fake scene with Obi-Wan beeing the one who killed Luke´s father and then after taht fake scene Lucas revealed it to the rest of the cast.

And to be quite honest. If IT is true then this twist will be as iconic and remembered as the father twist and most certainly will be the greatest twist ever in a videogame. Quite a feat when you remember that this same company did the Revan twist, essentially the "I am your father" twist of videogames.

Which is exactly a reason i believe they can pull this of.

Of course they can pull it off. And it would definitely be brilliant. But I highly doubt it was planned since ME1. There is no evidence in the previous games. The only evidence of Shepard undering indoctrination attempts is in the third game, because that is when they decided that this is how they would end the story. Shepard would fight off the Reaper's trying to take control of his mind. 

Maybe it was planned and I just don't see it. Tbh, I don't really care. It changes nothing because we still don't know anything. All I care about is the ending making some gorram sense and I get some closure for the series so I can play it again. The IT would be the best way to do that, while also providing an amazing twist. I don't really care if it was planned from the start, because it really only affects the third game anyway.

Modifié par Makrys, 07 juin 2012 - 06:02 .

[Makrys]

Rifneno wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Starbinger smiling has NOTHING to do with it being planned since ME1. Seriously. Especially since he wasn't introduced until the third game. All that is proof of is that his intentions are evil/Harbinger's. Which ties into the IT for the ending of ME3.

...  Yeah.  And starbinger smiling has nothing to do with Klencory. 

Klencory?

[TSA_383]

Sup guys, what've I missed in a hundred pages?

Been out of action due to getting my (N7 themed? It's black and red...) new gaming PC on the go:

It's going to be awesome...

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

I'd said this myself back sometime in the distant past of this subject, but no one even wanted to consider it, they said that would mean everything from the beginning of cronos to the end was a dream, but let's consider it a waking dream, essentially Shepard does wake up on the Nornandy but the dream is still happening, for the most part things are real but with a dash of halucination that steadily get's worse as you continue on through to London and the beam.

I must not have been around for that, because I would definitely give that idea some consideration. It fits thematically into the lore quite nicely. Just needs some strong evidence to support it. 

[estebanus]

Rifneno wrote...

Hey guys. Been preoccupied with MP lately. Anything major found in the past week(ish)?

Also, I had a thought. This is kind of reaching but if it is correct... epic symbolism/subtle reference. Remember how some of us were theorizing that perhaps Shepard never woke up from the third dream and is still on the Normandy before Cronos Station?

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

Oh my god...

My mind... it's been blown away!

[SS2Dante]

Can whoever made the youtube vid of the gun do the same for the child in control ending? The idea that he becomes visible for a second is interesting, but without a good analysis video is too vague to comment on.

[HellishFiend]

TSA_383 wrote...

Sup guys, what've I missed in a hundred pages?

Been out of action due to getting my (N7 themed? It's black and red...) new gaming PC on the go:

It's going to be awesome...

Quite a bit, actually. Luckily for you we've been recapping and rehashing over the last 5 or so pages, so I would suggest going back for a read.  It's good stuff!

[Makrys]

TSA_383 wrote...

Sup guys, what've I missed in a hundred pages?

Been out of action due to getting my (N7 themed? It's black and red...) new gaming PC on the go:

It's going to be awesome...

Nice! I'm currently running on my custom built as well. What processor and gfx card you going with?

[HellishFiend]

SS2Dante wrote...

Can whoever made the youtube vid of the gun do the same for the child in control ending? The idea that he becomes visible for a second is interesting, but without a good analysis video is too vague to comment on.

Prettz is working on a final cut of the gun video, and I believe after that, he is going to do a video for the child in the control ending. 

[Sajuro]

DJBare wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hey guys. Been preoccupied with MP lately. Anything major found in the past week(ish)?

Also, I had a thought. This is kind of reaching but if it is correct... epic symbolism/subtle reference. Remember how some of us were theorizing that perhaps Shepard never woke up from the third dream and is still on the Normandy before Cronos Station?

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

If that was true, then that would be why you are kicked back to the assault on Cronos Station and could explain all of the inconsistencies. But then why would there be a breathe scene? Wouldn't it be in Shep's cabin or the med bay?
Also a discussion for the clocktower, if the indoctrination dream is like Inception, then wouldn't time pass faster for Shepard while he is hallucinating/indocrtinated?

I'd said this myself back sometime in the distant past of this subject, but no one even wanted to consider it, they said that would mean everything from the beginning of cronos to the end was a dream, but let's consider it a waking dream, essentially Shepard does wake up on the Nornandy but the dream is still happening, for the most part things are real but with a dash of halucination that steadily get's worse as you continue on through to London and the beam.

So you do fight Kai Leng? Could that be the reason for the named enemies like Jack Phantom and Morinth Banshee being the same as the other phantoms/banshees? It was Shepard's guilt that he didn't get to Grissom in time or that knowing what was happening on Earth and that Morinth was there?

[Rifneno]

Makrys wrote...

Klencory?

Planet in ME1.

"Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic life from synthetic "machine devils.""

Being of light.  That's a pretty fair description of starbinger.  Rants about protecting organic life from synthetics.  Again, starbinger 110%.  And he claims he saw it in a vision, i.e. a hallucination.  Sounds like our chubby billionaire may have been indoctrinated.

[HellishFiend]

Rifneno wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Klencory?

Planet in ME1.

"Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic life from synthetic "machine devils.""

Being of light.  That's a pretty fair description of starbinger.  Rants about protecting organic life from synthetics.  Again, starbinger 110%.  And he claims he saw it in a vision, i.e. a hallucination.  Sounds like our chubby billionaire may have been indoctrinated.

I agree. I facepalm when I see people interpret that as foreshadowing that the starchild's story is legit. 

It's not Starchild, people. It's Starbinger!

[GethPrimeMKII]

Sajuro wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hey guys. Been preoccupied with MP lately. Anything major found in the past week(ish)?

Also, I had a thought. This is kind of reaching but if it is correct... epic symbolism/subtle reference. Remember how some of us were theorizing that perhaps Shepard never woke up from the third dream and is still on the Normandy before Cronos Station?

It would be safe to say that if Shepard defeats indoctrination, it would be the turning point in the most important war of all time. In real life, where was the battle that is generally called the turning point of the most important war of real history? ... Normandy.

If that was true, then that would be why you are kicked back to the assault on Cronos Station and could explain all of the inconsistencies. But then why would there be a breathe scene? Wouldn't it be in Shep's cabin or the med bay?
Also a discussion for the clocktower, if the indoctrination dream is like Inception, then wouldn't time pass faster for Shepard while he is hallucinating/indocrtinated?

If you're right, whose to say the dreaming ends with the breath scene in London? Shepard chooses destroy and sees through the ruse, but its been said that once indoctrinated, one is always susceptible to indoctrination.

[HellishFiend]

Sajuro wrote...

So you do fight Kai Leng? Could that be the reason for the named enemies like Jack Phantom and Morinth Banshee being the same as the other phantoms/banshees? It was Shepard's guilt that he didn't get to Grissom in time or that knowing what was happening on Earth and that Morinth was there?

Hard to say. The problem with the "waking Indoctrination" theory is that it is nearly impossible to provide solid evidence for, and it causes everything to be fair game as a possible hallucination. 

[Rosewind]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Makrys wrote...

But it wasn't planned from the very start. The ME3 script went through numerous rewrites that had nothing to do with indoctrination.

So we've been told. Would be far from the first time an author has spread misinformation about their work in order to preserve a secret. The actors and entire film crew for Star Wars were lied to and given fake scripts to preserve the secret that Vader was Luke's father until the last possible moment. 

Yeah Lucas was the only one who knew it up to the scene itself, Mark Hamill I beleive was told just before a first, fake scene with Obi-Wan beeing the one who killed Luke´s father and then after taht fake scene Lucas revealed it to the rest of the cast.

And to be quite honest. If IT is true then this twist will be as iconic and remembered as the father twist and most certainly will be the greatest twist ever in a videogame. Quite a feat when you remember that this same company did the Revan twist, essentially the "I am your father" twist of videogames.

Which is exactly a reason i believe they can pull this of.

But technically Obi-wan did kill lukes father well he thought he did for a time anyway.