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[balance5050]

BleedingUranium wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Guys, which comic mentioned Arrival as being canon. I'm arguing with a literalist who refused to admit it's canon.

Oh god, don't bother with those people, if Bioware made it then it's canon period. 

Lol, it's for entertainment. Also, I do want to know, because I never learned which one it was

Home Worlds #1?

Edit:
Mass Effect Conviction?

Modifié par balance5050, 08 juin 2012 - 01:20 .

[BleedingUranium]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Mass Effect Conviction. Happens days after the events of Arrival. James Vega is tasked with guarding Shepard who is held prisoner.

HellishFiend wrote...

Not sure on the name, but its the one with Vega.

Thanks guys

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Something to help ME stomach your idea a bit more, if you think this is the case and that London was basically a sonnambulist battle, what do you think happened in it's place? How did Shepard get where he did? What happened in place of the Cain hitting the Hades Cannon? Was Shepard just running around, claiming he heard orders, his squaddies beliving it and firing heavy weapons pointlessly at a Destroyer when the Fleet was really preparing to fire?

Questions we cannot answer, hence why I am reticent with any conclusions I might otherwise be inclined to discuss. It would require too much random guesswork.

The evidence points towards something, but we have no way of knowing what it's pointing to. At least not yet. We may find something. Two months ago we would have thought it preposterous to question the reality of anything prior to harby's beam. 

Well then theorize with me here! Lots of speculation! C'mon throw me a bone, give me your best guesstimate.

Alright, give me a few minutes to gather my thoughts and I'll try and come up with something. 

Ok, so near as I can figure, there are a few very general, broad, loosely defined directions that I theorize this could be headed. Keep in mind I use the word theorize quite loosely, because I would never suggest these things if you hadnt insisted. And hopefully I put enough qualifiers beforehand (can it get any more vague than general, broad, and loosely defined?). 

1) Shepard never truly woke up from the third dream, and the entirety of the events post-third dream are entirely in Shepard's head.
Key support item: Surreal oddities and inconsistencies starting at Cronos station
Key weakness: Would result in, essentially, a retcon of everything after the 3rd dream

2) Shepard is experiencing and engaging in the events after the third dream in somnambulate (waking dream/sleepwalking) fashion. The events are heavily influenced by the indoctrination hallucinations, but the events are otherwise taking place in some form or fashion. 
Key support item: Would sufficiently explain many oddities and inconsistencies starting at and following Cronos station
Key weakness: Would call into question a virtually unlimited amount of items

3) Shepard is knocked unconscious in London far earlier than Harby's beam, and everything following that point is a hallucination
Key support item: Would sufficiently explain lore failures and otherwise difficult to swallow similarities between events in London and past events Shepard has experienced. 
Key weakness: Even less has been done to make progress towards actually "retaking Earth" than we have been led to believe

Please dont crucify me for these, because like I said, I'm only doing it because Arian insisted...

Saved me the work. Maybe I'll put in my sig that I figure Shep went down in the Shuttle with Cortez and Squadies before getting to the LZ or stopping the Hades. This does not mean they are too close to it, but close enough.

I know the flashing white in the beam run is to well timed, like a heart beat, but it's still white and flashing; like the Hades, when it fires.

It's too easy to apply symbolism in some situations to almost anything we can't make sense of. Bottom line is, I think Shep is in rubble pre London LZ. I also don't let fear change who I am. I am totally will to be wrong and will actually continue to try to prove MYSELF wrong. That is what testing theories is all about.

[Andromidius]

Turbo_J wrote...
It's too easy to apply symbolism in some situations to almost anything we can't make sense of. Bottom line is, I think Shep is in rubble pre London LZ. I also don't let fear change who I am. I am totally will to be wrong and will actually continue to try to prove MYSELF wrong. That is what testing theories is all about.

Where is the rubble then?

[Jamie9]

Yeah, I hope you don't mind that I grabbed that for my wallpaper. It's just beautiful.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

It's too easy to apply symbolism in some situations to almost anything we can't make sense of. Bottom line is, I think Shep is in rubble pre London LZ. I also don't let fear change who I am. I am totally will to be wrong and will actually continue to try to prove MYSELF wrong. That is what testing theories is all about.

Couldnt have said it better myself. I'm biased because I absolutely love symbolism, but one cannot deny that the connections are plausible without being equally biased in the opposite direction. 

[Turbo_J]

Andromidius wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...
It's too easy to apply symbolism in some situations to almost anything we can't make sense of. Bottom line is, I think Shep is in rubble pre London LZ. I also don't let fear change who I am. I am totally will to be wrong and will actually continue to try to prove MYSELF wrong. That is what testing theories is all about.

Where is the rubble then?

There is quite a bit of rubble in the Hades cannon area... bubble with rebar, tiles, gurders... but where Shep 'is' is likely not where Shep in the rubble is, if you understand. I just think they are close to where the Hades cannon is - which happens to be by the clock, which I have seen in the breath scene... not once, but twiced... as in it comes into view twice. The first time is not more than two frames and if you are not looking in the right spot, you'll never see it.

I've played 7 times. I'm on my 8th but the fan went out on my video card, so I'm dry docked until they send out a replacement fan assembly.

[Unschuld]

HellishFiend wrote...
1) Shepard never truly woke up from the third dream, and the entirety of the events post-third dream are entirely in Shepard's head.
Key support item: Surreal oddities and inconsistencies starting at Cronos station explained
Key weakness: Would result in, essentially, a retcon of everything after the 3rd dream

Don't worry, I haven't exactly started gathering the nails and planks of wood yet, but I can't get behind this idea at all. As you said, it invalidates everything post-Dream #3 which I feel would severely weaken the story and cause a multitude of problems. If all of this were a dream, every single conversation with, every single encouraging word given by, every action by the people surrounding Shepard is a fabrication of his own mind. This would mean that everything his squad/Anderson etc. is a projection of what Shepard thinks  people view him as, and how Shepard thinks  they'll act. How much of a downer would that be if you found out that all of that was just your subconscious patting you on the back? Terrible. Not only that, but it also won't work because that's not what Shepard's subconscious has been telling him the entire game. If anything, it's been his major source of doubts about his ability.

I can get behind or at least consider that reality takes a sharp turn towards hallucination/dreams after the London FOB, starting from the ride in the APC (crash) or starting at Harby's beam fade-to-white. Not before though.

Slightly altered perception of reality? Yes.

Everything starting at Cronus is a dream? Hell no. 

[Andromidius]

Turbo_J wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...
It's too easy to apply symbolism in some situations to almost anything we can't make sense of. Bottom line is, I think Shep is in rubble pre London LZ. I also don't let fear change who I am. I am totally will to be wrong and will actually continue to try to prove MYSELF wrong. That is what testing theories is all about.

Where is the rubble then?

There is quite a bit of rubble in the Hades cannon area... bubble with rebar, tiles, gurders... but where Shep 'is' is likely not where Shep in the rubble is, if you understand. I just think they are close to where the Hades cannon is - which happens to be by the clock, which I have seen in the breath scene... not once, but twiced... as in it comes into view twice. The first time is not more than two frames and if you are not looking in the right spot, you'll never see it.

I've played 7 times. I'm on my 8th but the fan went out on my video card, so I'm dry docked until they send out a replacement fan assembly.

Hmm.  Location of Big Ben is pretty important.  Just unsure how Shepard gets there.

Unless we're going by where the Shuttle crashes.  Though what evidence is there to go by that Shepard was on board?

Unless we're being dicked with, and its not Shepard.  But I don't think Bioware would troll that hard.

...really?

[BleedingUranium]

Here's something cool: Not only did Bioware state Conviction as canon, it has to be canon anyway.

Days after the events of Arrival, the galaxy is in turmoil over Commander Shepard's actions. While the Citadel Council denounces the Commander and Councilor Udina deflects blame from the Systems Alliance, the Batarian Hegemony calls for retribution for the apparent terrorist acts.
On Omega, Alliance soldier James Vega plays cards in a bar as he watches a newscast about the uproar. Without warning, he rips the screen from the wall, offering to pay the krogan bartender for the damages. The batarians Vega was playing cards with become confrontational and accuse him of being a "Shepard Lover". Vega tries to calm them down, but they charge him. He bashes one batarian over the head with the screen, then rushes the leader of another group, both of them crashing through a window. The rest of the batarians surround Vega and attack.
The fight is interrupted by the arrival of Admiral Anderson and a contingent of soldiers. Anderson informs Vega that he is being brought in for more training. As they board an aircar, Anderson tells Vega that he must get past "the incident on Fehl" and "be the soldier we expect of you". Vega argues, demanding that Anderson throw him in the brig as they approach the Normandy SR-2. Anderson then explains that Vega will actually be guarding the brig, and one special prisoner: Commander Shepard.

So, it has to be canon because, if Shepard hadn't done it, Vega wouldn't have gotten into a fight with the Batarians, and he mentions fighting them when he's trading stories with Garrus in ME3. Fact. I win.

[HellishFiend]

Unschuld wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
1) Shepard never truly woke up from the third dream, and the entirety of the events post-third dream are entirely in Shepard's head.
Key support item: Surreal oddities and inconsistencies starting at Cronos station explained
Key weakness: Would result in, essentially, a retcon of everything after the 3rd dream

Don't worry, I haven't exactly started gathering the nails and planks of wood yet, but I can't get behind this idea at all. As you said, it invalidates everything post-Dream #3 which I feel would severely weaken the story and cause a multitude of problems. If all of this were a dream, every single conversation with, every single encouraging word given by, every action by the people surrounding Shepard is a fabrication of his own mind. This would mean that everything his squad/Anderson etc. is a projection of what Shepard thinks  people view him as, and how Shepard thinks  they'll act. How much of a downer would that be if you found out that all of that was just your subconscious patting you on the back? Terrible. Not only that, but it also won't work because that's not what Shepard's subconscious has been telling him the entire game. If anything, it's been his major source of doubts about his ability.

I can get behind or at least consider that reality takes a sharp turn towards hallucination/dreams after the London FOB, starting from the ride in the APC (crash) or starting at Harby's beam fade-to-white. Not before though.

Slightly altered perception of reality? Yes.

Everything starting at Cronus is a dream? Hell no. 

Fair enough. I am simply throwing all the wild possibilities out there, in order of "chronological severity". Not in the order of plausibility. 

[HellishFiend]

Andromidius wrote...

Hmm.  Location of Big Ben is pretty important.  Just unsure how Shepard gets there.

Unless we're going by where the Shuttle crashes.  Though what evidence is there to go by that Shepard was on board?

Unless we're being dicked with, and its not Shepard.  But I don't think Bioware would troll that hard.

...really?

Not plausible. The model is male or female based on your Shepard, and the video files and ending qualifiers are titled "ShepAlive"

[Andromidius]

Good. There's a limit to the trolling I can take.

*cries uncontrollably*

[Turbo_J]

Ok, someone with eyes, please... Ignore the red lines. I did not add them. Someone else took this screenshot and it is an absolute fluke because it is the first time you can see the clock face and it's near impossible to catch because it is one or two frames and is obscured by moving fog...

Remember, the clock is on an angle in the pic... the building (not really viewable) is leaning to the left and the face is on a 35-40 5-10 degree angle, also facing towards the left. The time reads 1:30 based on the hand position and building angle.



Please - look for the face... the dials, the dots that mark there numbers would be if it were not Big Ben...

Modifié par Turbo_J, 08 juin 2012 - 01:38 .

[Unschuld]

Andromidius wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...
It's too easy to apply symbolism in some situations to almost anything we can't make sense of. Bottom line is, I think Shep is in rubble pre London LZ. I also don't let fear change who I am. I am totally will to be wrong and will actually continue to try to prove MYSELF wrong. That is what testing theories is all about.

Where is the rubble then?

There is quite a bit of rubble in the Hades cannon area... bubble with rebar, tiles, gurders... but where Shep 'is' is likely not where Shep in the rubble is, if you understand. I just think they are close to where the Hades cannon is - which happens to be by the clock, which I have seen in the breath scene... not once, but twiced... as in it comes into view twice. The first time is not more than two frames and if you are not looking in the right spot, you'll never see it.

I've played 7 times. I'm on my 8th but the fan went out on my video card, so I'm dry docked until they send out a replacement fan assembly.

Hmm.  Location of Big Ben is pretty important.  Just unsure how Shepard gets there.

Unless we're going by where the Shuttle crashes.  Though what evidence is there to go by that Shepard was on board?

Unless we're being dicked with, and its not Shepard.  But I don't think Bioware would troll that hard.

...really?

I think people should stop trying to spot blurry images of Big Ben in the smoke and start trying harder to identify the objects we can actually SEE clearly in the breath scene.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

 

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

Ok, someone with eyes, please... Ignore the red lines. I did not add them. Someone else took this screenshot and it is an absolute fluke because it is the first time you can see the clock face and it's near impossible to catch because it is one or two frames and is obscured by moving fog...

Remember, the clock is on an angle in the pic... the building (not really viewable) is leaning to the left and the face is on a 35-45 degree angle, also facing towards the left. The time reads 1:30 based on the hand position and building angle.



Please - look for the face... the dials, the dots that mark there numbers would be if it were not Big Ben...

I still see that circle and the lines that look like 1:30, but I've been unable to see it in the video footage I have available. Since the time frame is so small, perhaps you could crop your raw footage down to just the fraction of a second it takes to see it, so the size of the file will be managable?

[dmay7]

Turbo_J wrote...

Ok, someone with eyes, please... Ignore the red lines. I did not add them. Someone else took this screenshot and it is an absolute fluke because it is the first time you can see the clock face and it's near impossible to catch because it is one or two frames and is obscured by moving fog...

Remember, the clock is on an angle in the pic... the building (not really viewable) is leaning to the left and the face is on a 35-45 degree angle, also facing towards the left. The time reads 1:30 based on the hand position and building angle.



Please - look for the face... the dials, the dots that mark there numbers would be if it were not Big Ben...

Jesus Christ, I see it! It looks like it's 6:05

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!

[HellishFiend]

Unschuld wrote...


I think people should stop trying to spot blurry images of Big Ben in the smoke and start trying harder to identify the objects we can actually SEE clearly in the breath scene.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
 

I entertain all possibilities and avenues of speculation.  But then again, I do have an exorbitant amount of free time that I've chosen to dedicate towards this. 

[Unschuld]

HellishFiend wrote...

Fair enough. I am simply throwing all the wild possibilities out there, in order of "chronological severity". Not in the order of plausibility. 

I know, I was just offering my opinion on it. There's a point I think where the speculation on when the supposed dreams/hallucinations just goes a bit too far.

[BleedingUranium]

Turbo_J wrote...

Ok, someone with eyes, please... Ignore the red lines. I did not add them. Someone else took this screenshot and it is an absolute fluke because it is the first time you can see the clock face and it's near impossible to catch because it is one or two frames and is obscured by moving fog...

Remember, the clock is on an angle in the pic... the building (not really viewable) is leaning to the left and the face is on a 35-40 5-10 degree angle, also facing towards the left. The time reads 1:30 based on the hand position and building angle.



Please - look for the face... the dials, the dots that mark there numbers would be if it were not Big Ben...

That's the same object that has also been said to be an M-080 wheel, which I find it's closer to. Not that it matters, since Shep is lying in concrete

[Andromidius]

I can see it now too, barely.

Where is this shot taken from, and when?

[Turbo_J]

dmay7 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Ok, someone with eyes, please... Ignore the red lines. I did not add them. Someone else took this screenshot and it is an absolute fluke because it is the first time you can see the clock face and it's near impossible to catch because it is one or two frames and is obscured by moving fog...

Remember, the clock is on an angle in the pic... the building (not really viewable) is leaning to the left and the face is on a 35-45 degree angle, also facing towards the left. The time reads 1:30 based on the hand position and building angle.



Please - look for the face... the dials, the dots that mark there numbers would be if it were not Big Ben...

Jesus Christ, I see it! It looks like it's 6:05

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!

6:05 or 1:30, but it depends on what you think is the big hand/little hand. I based my guess on the time it is at the Hades, which is 10... damn can't remember... need to see if I can boot the gamer pc long enough to look at the capture. 10:05 or something I think... so 1:30AM makes more sense.

[Unschuld]

HellishFiend wrote...

Unschuld wrote...


I think people should stop trying to spot blurry images of Big Ben in the smoke and start trying harder to identify the objects we can actually SEE clearly in the breath scene.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
 

I entertain all possibilities and avenues of speculation.  But then again, I do have an exorbitant amount of free time that I've chosen to dedicate towards this. 

I'm not saying it's impossible  for something to exist there, but it's much less likely that people will actually  find something and much more likely that anything they find is just an example of pareidolia.

[Turbo_J]

Andromidius wrote...

I can see it now too, barely.

Where is this shot taken from, and when?

Right at the very beginning of the scene just above where some people think the Mako wheel is. It comes into view again at about the half way mark.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 08 juin 2012 - 01:47 .

[Turbo_J]

I wish I could get pics of the Hades area up... The cement/rubble there; and the clock not a 1/4 mile in the distance. It just sells me on this.