55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Turbo_J]

NOTE: The red markings are not from me... I did not take that pic or highlight it. It was used to show a 'mako' wheel... which I don't think exists. I think the Reaper looking stuff may be Reaper looking stuff... like someone else took out the Hades while Shep was taking that rubble nap in Indoctrination land.

[Andromidius]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

We're certain it's concrete. But this Big Ben in the fog buisness is very "Jesus' face on toast" and really starts to make us look just like what the Literalists call us, conspiracy nuts.

I consider the infrasonic noise to be very compelling evidence, but I wont even take that outside of this topic until we have video evidence, much less the Big Ben thing. 

I really couldnt care less what the literalists come in here and think of us. 

^ This ^

Would never use it as 'proof'.  Just an interesting tidbit that needs more investigation.

[LazyTechGuy]

Thanks for those pics, Turbo.

You know that two shelf "bookshelf" we were talking about a few hours ago that's in the background when Shepard takes his breath? That building in your first pic (next to the Reaper leg) almost looks like that "bookshelf" building.

[HellishFiend]

Unschuld wrote...

That's because of pareidolia. You're seeing things because your mind is trying to match up lines. Yes, I specifically resized both images to match up the lines that were there in order to be as objective as possible, but there are still some inconsistencies with them. I also viewed the video several times with the contrast as high as possible to see if I could reproduce the image. It's not there.

You must not have read my post on video encoding and decoding like I asked you to. Turbo confirmed that she can not use any other lower quality video to see the same thing she does in her video because of fidelity loss. 

And you're really going to annoy me if you keep throwing that word "pareidolia" around. Just because you've find a nice big word with a definition that fits what you think is going on here doesnt make you right. 

[dreamgazer]

HellishFiend wrote...

And you're really going to annoy me if you keep throwing that word "pareidolia" around. Just because you've find a nice big word with a definition that fits what you think is going on here doesnt make you right. 

(laughs)

I think most people who have engaged indoctrination symptom interpretation over the past few months have become "immune" to that word. I have, though I understand and appreciate its meaning and how it grounds speculations to reality.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 08 juin 2012 - 02:28 .

[Andromidius]

Unschuld wrote...

That's because of pareidolia.

Still not going with that myself.  While I can see vague faces in some things, I can see what it really is quite quickly (the fact I can see the wheel and skull as well, but only if I stretch my imagination a little - and even then its pretty vague).  That clock face isn't going away.  Not to mention pareidolia usually involves faces or animal shapes, mostly due to circles and straight lines being very uncommon in nature.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'm not convinced I'm wrong either.

Modifié par Andromidius, 08 juin 2012 - 02:30 .

[Turbo_J]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Thanks for those pics, Turbo.

You know that two shelf "bookshelf" we were talking about a few hours ago that's in the background when Shepard takes his breath? That building in your first pic (next to the Reaper leg) almost looks like that "bookshelf" building.

I know, but I looked and looked for a more accurate matches to what is in the breath scene and could not find it so left out the 'discovery'... it was my first thought when taking the pics.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 08 juin 2012 - 02:29 .

[Big Bad]

Does anybody remember that fan-made comic that re-wrote the ending to E3 so that all of Shep's friends were with her, helping her in the decision chamber? I nearly cried when I read that the first time, but I never saved the link. Anybody have the link or remember the name?

[Electra77]

Having seen the short and long version of he theory, I have many questions. Granted these may have been answered elsewhere in this long thread, so forgive me if I am rehashing old territory. First, if you are hallucinating at some point on Earth, does that not open a larger question about what is real and hallucination in the rest of the game?

Are you hallucinating or dead, and this is some odd afterlife? I'm not clear on when a reaper weapon has not killed or destroyed something. A single hit from a reaper beam blows a ship apart. On Rannoch, a destroyer beam will definitely kill you. And are their beams light based (lasers), I thought the codex said they were some super heated metal and even if you could withstand the blast you would be buried in some molten element.

If you do a real lousy job of collecting war assets, you only have one option and that could be just destroying the reapers (or so I have read anyway). How does that fit with the reapers trying to control you and influence you not wipe them out? We went through all this effort to control you, and now we are only giving you the choice to destroy us (aka escape indoctrination). That seems odd to me.

How fast or slow does indoctrination work? I'll have to go back, but I thought the Illusive Man's eyes were always that way. If they were that way in ME2, was he indoctrinated then? On the eye theory, were Matriarch Benezia's eye's cybernetic blue? I can't recall.

[dreamgazer]

Okay, this may have already been covered, but I'm not hovering over the thread (or the computer) while I'm working at home.

At what angle are you folks seeing Big Ben at, and how does it make sense in regards to the position Shepard's laying? Because going by what I think I've read, you're suggesting that Shepard's dangling or that Big Ben's toppled ... which it hasn't in the high-EMS ending.

?

Modifié par dreamgazer, 08 juin 2012 - 02:36 .

[HellishFiend]

dreamgazer wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

And you're really going to annoy me if you keep throwing that word "pareidolia" around. Just because you've find a nice big word with a definition that fits what you think is going on here doesnt make you right. 

(laughs)

I think most people who have engaged indoctrination symptom interpretation over the past few months have become "immune" to that word. I have, though I understand and appreciate its meaning and how it grounds speculations to reality.

Yes, its a word. It has a definition. Its a nice big word that makes people feel smart when they use it. Thats why it annoys me when people throw it around thinking the fact that they feel smart when saying it, combined with it's definition matching what they think is happening, makes them right. 

[dreamgazer]

HellishFiend wrote...

Yes, its a word. It has a definition. Its a nice big word that makes people feel smart when they use it. Thats why it annoys me when people throw it around thinking the fact that they feel smart when saying it, combined with it's definition matching what they think is happening, makes them right. 

I dunno, I'd rather read "Pareidolia" than "Hurr durr you're seeing things that aren't there, you crazy ******". 

[Ctoagu]

HellishFiend wrote...

Yes, its a word. It has a definition. Its a nice big word that makes people feel smart when they use it. Thats why it annoys me when people throw it around thinking the fact that they feel smart when saying it, combined with it's definition matching what they think is happening, makes them right. 

I think Mark Twain said something on the subject. "No need to call it a metropolis when you can just call it a city." or something like that.

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

And you're really going to annoy me if you keep throwing that word "pareidolia" around. Just because you've find a nice big word with a definition that fits what you think is going on here doesnt make you right. 

(laughs)

I think most people who have engaged indoctrination symptom interpretation over the past few months have become "immune" to that word. I have, though I understand and appreciate its meaning and how it grounds speculations to reality.

Yes, its a word. It has a definition. Its a nice big word that makes people feel smart when they use it. Thats why it annoys me when people throw it around thinking the fact that they feel smart when saying it, combined with it's definition matching what they think is happening, makes them right. 

It's a legitimate word for a legitimate mental phenomenon. Don't get too uptight about him being a skeptic.

[Andromidius]

Electra77 wrote...

First, if you are hallucinating at some point on Earth, does that not open a larger question about what is real and hallucination in the rest of the game?

Yes it does.  Its why we're struggling to define when exactly Indoctrination Theory steps into the story, and whether or not Shepard is hallucinating or dreaming.  We've got a very wide varience here, ranging from 'dreams ever since Eden Prime' to 'hallucinating after Anderson dies'. 

Most of us fall somewhere in between, myself either at Harbinger's beam or the Mako crash just beforehand, along with a degree of mild to major hallucinations mixed in with reality all throughout the game post Arrival.

[BleedingUranium]

Electra77 wrote...

Having seen the short and long version of he theory, I have many questions. Granted these may have been answered elsewhere in this long thread, so forgive me if I am rehashing old territory. First, if you are hallucinating at some point on Earth, does that not open a larger question about what is real and hallucination in the rest of the game?

Are you hallucinating or dead, and this is some odd afterlife? I'm not clear on when a reaper weapon has not killed or destroyed something. A single hit from a reaper beam blows a ship apart. On Rannoch, a destroyer beam will definitely kill you. And are their beams light based (lasers), I thought the codex said they were some super heated metal and even if you could withstand the blast you would be buried in some molten element.

If you do a real lousy job of collecting war assets, you only have one option and that could be just destroying the reapers (or so I have read anyway). How does that fit with the reapers trying to control you and influence you not wipe them out? We went through all this effort to control you, and now we are only giving you the choice to destroy us (aka escape indoctrination). That seems odd to me.

How fast or slow does indoctrination work? I'll have to go back, but I thought the Illusive Man's eyes were always that way. If they were that way in ME2, was he indoctrinated then? On the eye theory, were Matriarch Benezia's eye's cybernetic blue? I can't recall.

Destroy-only is a common question, and basically it's that the Reapers don't bother trying to indoctrinate you because they don't think you're worth it. If you don't get the breath scene you're either indoctrinated or dead. Because only a Shep who rallies everyone with a lot of willpower (high EMS) is able to resist the indoctrination attempt and wake up.

The Illusiv Man got his eyes from a Reaper Object some 20 years ago. Having the eyes means you're indoctrinated, but being indoctrinated doesn't mean you have the eyes

[Turbo_J]

Pareidolia - a puurrdy word - and one of many elements used by the Reapers in the process of Indoctrination.

[Ctoagu]

Andromidius wrote...

Electra77 wrote...

First, if you are hallucinating at some point on Earth, does that not open a larger question about what is real and hallucination in the rest of the game?

Yes it does.  Its why we're struggling to define when exactly Indoctrination Theory steps into the story, and whether or not Shepard is hallucinating or dreaming.  We've got a very wide varience here, ranging from 'dreams ever since Eden Prime' to 'hallucinating after Anderson dies'. 

Most of us fall somewhere in between, myself either at Harbinger's beam or the Mako crash just beforehand, along with a degree of mild to major hallucinations mixed in with reality all throughout the game post Arrival.

If this is true for the EC, I'll be the first to put it up on Youtube with Weird Al's 'Everything You Know Is Wrong' playing in the background. Cue 100K+ views.

Modifié par Ctoagu, 08 juin 2012 - 02:37 .

[TJBartlemus]

Turbo_J wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

I can see it now too, barely.

Where is this shot taken from, and when?

Right at the very beginning of the scene just above where some people think the Mako wheel is. It comes into view again at about the half way mark.

Yeah that certainly looks like a Mako wheel, but it could also be other things as well. Most of the breath scene speculation still has yet to get any solid evidence other than shepard breathes. What I felt that was quite weird that BioWare did was have the gun change after the shock wave in the destruction choice. They have had errors in the past in ME3 such as the Executor Pallin error. http://masseffect.wi...Executor_Pallin They have had plenty of time to work on the scene to not mess up that detail. Also the fact that the carnifex reloads like a predator is strange too.

There is also another aspect about thi I feel everyone has missed and not yet explained. The Beings of Light Theory. (For evidence here is the video and codex)

video

codex http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Klencory

To me it seems to have a lot of weak points but it also has some pretty interesting ones too. It would also provide EA and BioWare a way to make a ME4 and explain what motive the Reapers have. To make an army to combat a greater enemy could be plausible except for the fact that no other evidence has been shown to prove this. My opinion is that the beings of light could be a creation by an ancient race in previous cycles to combat the Reapers.

Just putting it out for discussion here guys. Also even if you don't believe in the BOL theory listen to the video on the audio quotes from Haringer about the races. Found it quite interesting.

[Turbo_J]

Andromidius wrote...

Electra77 wrote...

First, if you are hallucinating at some point on Earth, does that not open a larger question about what is real and hallucination in the rest of the game?

Yes it does.  Its why we're struggling to define when exactly Indoctrination Theory steps into the story, and whether or not Shepard is hallucinating or dreaming.  We've got a very wide varience here, ranging from 'dreams ever since Eden Prime' to 'hallucinating after Anderson dies'. 

Most of us fall somewhere in between, myself either at Harbinger's beam or the Mako crash just beforehand, along with a degree of mild to major hallucinations mixed in with reality all throughout the game post Arrival.

One thing is clear (for me); the hallucinations seem to start right at Earth with the park and vent boy. The fish floating around in my cabin may be a bug, but I kind of like it better thinking they are part of the trolling. Don't think I've seen that happen since the patch though, but I also avoid feeding them.

As for full on in the head/Reaper consensus - that is still up for debate.

[HellishFiend]

Electra77 wrote...

Having seen the short and long version of he theory, I have many questions. Granted these may have been answered elsewhere in this long thread, so forgive me if I am rehashing old territory. First, if you are hallucinating at some point on Earth, does that not open a larger question about what is real and hallucination in the rest of the game?

Are you hallucinating or dead, and this is some odd afterlife? I'm not clear on when a reaper weapon has not killed or destroyed something. A single hit from a reaper beam blows a ship apart. On Rannoch, a destroyer beam will definitely kill you. And are their beams light based (lasers), I thought the codex said they were some super heated metal and even if you could withstand the blast you would be buried in some molten element.

If you do a real lousy job of collecting war assets, you only have one option and that could be just destroying the reapers (or so I have read anyway). How does that fit with the reapers trying to control you and influence you not wipe them out? We went through all this effort to control you, and now we are only giving you the choice to destroy us (aka escape indoctrination). That seems odd to me.

How fast or slow does indoctrination work? I'll have to go back, but I thought the Illusive Man's eyes were always that way. If they were that way in ME2, was he indoctrinated then? On the eye theory, were Matriarch Benezia's eye's cybernetic blue? I can't recall.

No problem. Happy to help where I can, though I will only be giving the short answers to most of the questions.

does that not open a larger question about what is real and hallucination in the rest of the game? 

Yes, but most of those questions have fairly good answers, and some of the questions are unwarranted.

Are you hallucinating or dead, and this is some odd afterlife? 

No, definitely not dead. There is contention on when the hallucinating begins, and whether it is a full-on or waking dream type of hallucination, but Shepard is definitely alive, according to IT.

I thought the codex said they were some super heated metal and even if you could withstand the blast you would be buried in some molten element. 

Yes, that is correct. The fact that Shepard survives Harbinger's beam at all is a contextual inconsistency, and has several well-established contradictory precedents. That boils down to, in plain English, that could not have happened in reality unless Harbinger specifically wants Shepard alive. 

We went through all this effort to control you, and now we are only giving you the choice to destroy us (aka escape indoctrination). That seems odd to me. 

That is only partially true. If you imported an ME2 save where you kept the collector base, and then proceed to have a low EMS outcome, you will be offered only the Control ending. That fact bears many implications, which are also a point of contention. I'll let you think about it, and let me know if you have any further questions on the subject. 

How fast or slow does indoctrination work? I'll have to go back, but I thought the Illusive Man's eyes were always that way. If they were that way in ME2, was he indoctrinated then? On the eye theory, were Matriarch Benezia's eye's cybernetic blue? I can't recall. 

TIM got his "indoctrinated eyes" from indirect contact with a powerful Reaper indoctrination device in the very first Mass Effect comic.  

According to the codex, "Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes mental decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination enables the thrall to last for months or years". There are numerous points of contention regarding the indoctrination of both TIM and Shepard, with regard to the progression of their indoctrination.

[Unschuld]

HellishFiend wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

That's because of pareidolia. You're seeing things because your mind is trying to match up lines. Yes, I specifically resized both images to match up the lines that were there in order to be as objective as possible, but there are still some inconsistencies with them. I also viewed the video several times with the contrast as high as possible to see if I could reproduce the image. It's not there.

You must not have read my post on video encoding and decoding like I asked you to. Turbo confirmed that she can not use any other lower quality video to see the same thing she does in her video because of fidelity loss. 

And you're really going to annoy me if you keep throwing that word "pareidolia" around. Just because you've find a nice big word with a definition that fits what you think is going on here doesnt make you right. 

Why not? It's the proper word to describe the phenomena and takes up much less space than seeing-objects-in-places-where-they-do-not-exist-because-of-the-way-the-mind-works. It's not just a term I plucked from the internet, either, but something I've studied about in psychology courses. It fits, and I'll use it.

I did read your post, but the image being supplied as evidence is at a much lower quality than the video I'm currently viewing (on my hard drive, not youtube), so I really don't see this holding much ground. It's not even the image from the video that's supposedly being viewed, so I'm even less inclined. The image I see in my video is smoke. If it were a solid object, like a large building in the distance, the lines of the image would not distort and shift as the camera pans. It would stay solid enough that you could see the lines through the smoke obscuring it. This image does not.


Believe me, I'd like to be proven wrong, but so far I'm not convinced.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

It's a legitimate word for a legitimate mental phenomenon. Don't get too uptight about him being a skeptic.

I politely asked him to stop haranguing us (see, I can use big boy words too) after explaining my position one last time and making it clear that I already fully understood his position. He continued to press the issue for multiple posts afterwards, accomplishing nothing. Hence my minor aggravation. 

[HellishFiend]

Unschuld wrote...


Believe me, I'd like to be proven wrong, but so far I'm not convinced.

If someone not being convinced of my beliefs was enough to discourage me from anything, I would not be here.

Can we move on now?

[Andromidius]

Turbo_J wrote...

One thing is clear (for me); the hallucinations seem to start right at Earth with the park and vent boy.

I'm with you on that.  And considering its the first thing Shepard sees in Mass Effect 3...

Who knows what he/she saw during those 6 months?

Heck, a lot of people think Shepard was hearing voices all through ME2 (Harbinger).  I'm not so sure, but...  Who knows.  I sure don't.