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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#14651
Arian Dynas

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liggy002 wrote...

So, the general consensus in the Mike Gamble tweet thread today is that Bioware is going to cut off the IT people and the anti enders even though we are thE vocal majority according to a number of polls. That makes sense! NOT!!

Apparently, they believe that the SDCC announcement will not contain the IT.


Wait, what? When did this bull**** happen?

#14652
HellishFiend

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Yay for being upset about discussions, but fine with senseless spam while spamming away posts which have at least some thought behind them. So glad we had that discussion a few pages back... not.


I replied to your post.

It was independent from any post I made.

But to answer the question of your post (which I didn't notice because of all the spam btw) you can just overlay the two Javik pictures, it's about the same.
Same for the Collectors as there are 3 other frames with them in the video.


Sorry, I guess I snipped it down to too small a size. 

I'll take a look at it with that perspective and let you know if I see anything. 

#14653
HellishFiend

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Arian Dynas wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

So, the general consensus in the Mike Gamble tweet thread today is that Bioware is going to cut off the IT people and the anti enders even though we are thE vocal majority according to a number of polls. That makes sense! NOT!!

Apparently, they believe that the SDCC announcement will not contain the IT.


Wait, what? When did this bull**** happen?


The tweet was from today, I think. No need to get worked up about it. Its no different than the Q&A on the EC being used to "disprove IT".

#14654
Dwailing

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This probably sounds stupid, but what's the SDCC?

#14655
shteuyn

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I was just in the decision chamber and the most horrible glitch happened: I couldn't fire my gun, which in turned in an even more annoying experience when I accidentally locked myself in the destroy position. Well, a lot of minutes later the catalyst suddenly clipped his way behind me and, I wouldn't say he was fully corporeal but at least the contrast between the white torso and the blue pants was much more defined. As it stands the glitch is devoid of any symbolism, but if it happened in the control side it could be further proof that he does turn corporeal in the control ending and because my game was glitching he was just anticipating my decision. So meaningless glitch...?

#14656
dreamgazer

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Arian Dynas wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

So, the general consensus in the Mike Gamble tweet thread today is that Bioware is going to cut off the IT people and the anti enders even though we are thE vocal majority according to a number of polls. That makes sense! NOT!!

Apparently, they believe that the SDCC announcement will not contain the IT.


Wait, what? When did this bull**** happen?


Over yonder: 
http://social.biowar...ndex/12473601/1 

Mostly rabble-rousing and conclusion-jumping. Nothing really to see.

#14657
balance5050

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HellishFiend wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

If Bioware made it it's canon, ok? There's no such thing as "core" canon, it's a term made up by literalists.


To be fair, "core" canon could be interpreted as canon that is established to occur regardless of player choice, while anything else falls under "player" canon, or something like that. Makes sense to me, anyway. 

Not that I'm saying how that applies to DLC, though. 


Oh you mean boring fail Shep? The one who has the most possible characters die because of his "decisions"? Yeah... I'll stick with the optimal playthrough as the canon playthrough....

#14658
balance5050

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Dwailing wrote...

This probably sounds stupid, but what's the SDCC?


San Diego Comic Con.

#14659
Arian Dynas

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HellishFiend wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

If Bioware made it it's canon, ok? There's no such thing as "core" canon, it's a term made up by literalists.


To be fair, "core" canon could be interpreted as canon that is established to occur regardless of player choice, while anything else falls under "player" canon, or something like that. Makes sense to me, anyway. 

Not that I'm saying how that applies to DLC, though. 


If your Shepard experienced it, it is canon, with the few following exceptions.

Shepard is a human being, 32 years of age at the events of Mass Effect 3. Shepard was killed 2 years ago and was ressurected by Cerberus through project Lazarus, s/he then created a suicide squad to attack the Collector homeworld after investigating Horizon and meeting several prominent movers and shakers in the galaxy. Anderson left some kind of desk job and became an Admiral. Shepard saved the galaxy from Sovereign and the machinations of Saren Arterius. Shepard became a war criminal when s/he destroyed a solar system with the destruction of the Alpha relay (according to Mass Effect Conviction, so QED, if your Shepard did NOT experience that, they are, non canon where applicable.) and spent 6 months under hack in Vancouver.

#14660
HellishFiend

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shteuyn wrote...

I was just in the decision chamber and the most horrible glitch happened: I couldn't fire my gun, which in turned in an even more annoying experience when I accidentally locked myself in the destroy position. Well, a lot of minutes later the catalyst suddenly clipped his way behind me and, I wouldn't say he was fully corporeal but at least the contrast between the white torso and the blue pants was much more defined. As it stands the glitch is devoid of any symbolism, but if it happened in the control side it could be further proof that he does turn corporeal in the control ending and because my game was glitching he was just anticipating my decision. So meaningless glitch...?


A glitch, for sure, but it would still confirm the presence of programming that changes Starbinger's appearance, which is still quite significant! 

Thanks for letting us know. 

#14661
dreamgazer

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HellishFiend wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

... eh?

I didn't "know" about the shift in asari religious beliefs, the presence of indoctrinated agents in Javik's cycle, and Javik's staunch pro-destroy position until my third play-through, when I nabbed a From Ashes DLC code for cheap.

That's why I ask.  It alters perception.


I can definitely understand your desire for clarification, given that you didnt have Javik until your third playthrough. That would indeed alter one's perception. 


Well, I had read about those content points across the forum and such, but it's different when you're playing it in-game and building an overall perception.  I mean, Javik lays the pro-destroy tempo on really, really thick.  And it ain't just blunt-headed thinking, either.

Point being: even if it's optional, like Arrival and Overlord, are details in optional DLC still considered viable examples in an argument when the audience you're arguing with hasn't "seen" said information?

#14662
HellishFiend

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Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

If Bioware made it it's canon, ok? There's no such thing as "core" canon, it's a term made up by literalists.


To be fair, "core" canon could be interpreted as canon that is established to occur regardless of player choice, while anything else falls under "player" canon, or something like that. Makes sense to me, anyway. 

Not that I'm saying how that applies to DLC, though. 


If your Shepard experienced it, it is canon, with the few following exceptions.

Shepard is a human being, 32 years of age at the events of Mass Effect 3. Shepard was killed 2 years ago and was ressurected by Cerberus through project Lazarus, s/he then created a suicide squad to attack the Collector homeworld after investigating Horizon and meeting several prominent movers and shakers in the galaxy. Anderson left some kind of desk job and became an Admiral. Shepard saved the galaxy from Sovereign and the machinations of Saren Arterius. Shepard became a war criminal when s/he destroyed a solar system with the destruction of the Alpha relay (according to Mass Effect Conviction, so QED, if your Shepard did NOT experience that, they are, non canon where applicable.) and spent 6 months under hack in Vancouver.


Sounds like we're just saying the same thing in different words and in different detail, essentially. So I suppose we agree on that. 

#14663
Dwailing

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@Balance Thanks! I actually picked it up when I followed the one link, and now I feel REALLY stupid for having to ask. Well, I'm off for now. See you all tomorrow.

#14664
HellishFiend

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dreamgazer wrote...
Well, I had read about those content points across the forum and such, but it's different when you're playing it in-game and building an overall perception.  I mean, Javik lays the pro-destroy tempo on really, really thick.  And it ain't just blunt-headed thinking, either.

Point being: even if it's optional, like Arrival and Overlord, are details in optional DLC still considered viable examples in an argument when the audience you're arguing with hasn't "seen" said information?


Ugh, that is a tough question. I would have to say yes, though. I'm admittedly biased since the IT symbolism in the Citadel relies heavily on Shepard having memories from the DLC, but I'm going with yes. 

#14665
dreamgazer

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balance5050 wrote...

Oh you mean boring fail Shep? The one who has the most possible characters die because of his "decisions"? Yeah... I'll stick with the optimal playthrough as the canon playthrough....


No, no. If we're talking in ME2 terms, it'd be the Shepard who had everyone survive the Suicide Mission ... yet who had no idea who Kasumi, Zaeed, or David Archer were.

#14666
BleedingUranium

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A note to everyone that doesn't know:

Arrival is canon. If you don't do it, your Shepard is non-canon.

Evidenced by Conviction, and further evidenced by James refencing the events of Conviction in ME3.

#14667
Arian Dynas

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dreamgazer wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

... eh?

I didn't "know" about the shift in asari religious beliefs, the presence of indoctrinated agents in Javik's cycle, and Javik's staunch pro-destroy position until my third play-through, when I nabbed a From Ashes DLC code for cheap.

That's why I ask.  It alters perception.


I can definitely understand your desire for clarification, given that you didnt have Javik until your third playthrough. That would indeed alter one's perception. 


Well, I had read about those content points across the forum and such, but it's different when you're playing it in-game and building an overall perception.  I mean, Javik lays the pro-destroy tempo on really, really thick.  And it ain't just blunt-headed thinking, either.

Point being: even if it's optional, like Arrival and Overlord, are details in optional DLC still considered viable examples in an argument when the audience you're arguing with hasn't "seen" said information?


A creationist won't even look at most of the proof he is provided with, does that make it invalid since he hasn't seen it?

#14668
balance5050

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dreamgazer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Oh you mean boring fail Shep? The one who has the most possible characters die because of his "decisions"? Yeah... I'll stick with the optimal playthrough as the canon playthrough....


No, no. If we're talking in ME2 terms, it'd be the Shepard who had everyone survive the Suicide Mission ... yet who had no idea who Kasumi, Zaeed, or David Archer were.


DLC is canon.... if it's in my game it's canon.... Just like Dawngaurd will be canon for Skyrim and Shivering isles was for Oblivion....

#14669
balance5050

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BleedingUranium wrote...

A note to everyone that doesn't know:

Arrival is canon. If you don't do it, your Shepard is non-canon.

Evidenced by Conviction, and further evidenced by James refencing the events of Conviction in ME3.


This. Canon is all inclusive.

Modifié par balance5050, 08 juin 2012 - 05:17 .


#14670
MegumiAzusa

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HellishFiend wrote...

shteuyn wrote...

I was just in the decision chamber and the most horrible glitch happened: I couldn't fire my gun, which in turned in an even more annoying experience when I accidentally locked myself in the destroy position. Well, a lot of minutes later the catalyst suddenly clipped his way behind me and, I wouldn't say he was fully corporeal but at least the contrast between the white torso and the blue pants was much more defined. As it stands the glitch is devoid of any symbolism, but if it happened in the control side it could be further proof that he does turn corporeal in the control ending and because my game was glitching he was just anticipating my decision. So meaningless glitch...?


A glitch, for sure, but it would still confirm the presence of programming that changes Starbinger's appearance, which is still quite significant! 

Thanks for letting us know.

It's not significant. It uses the base model as used in Vancouver. Then the material is changed to get it its see through look, and another material is applied on that to have it dissolve.

#14671
dreamgazer

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Arrival is canon. If you don't do it, your Shepard is non-canon.


Gotcha (and thanks, folks).

So, if the content's created by BioWare, even if it's optional, it's on the table for dissection and usage of examples and precedents.  

Therefore, if people haven't experienced the atrocities of Project Overlord and what it means thematically in terms of control and synthesis, then tough s-----t.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 08 juin 2012 - 05:27 .


#14672
Arian Dynas

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Pretty much.

#14673
byne

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balance5050 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Oh you mean boring fail Shep? The one who has the most possible characters die because of his "decisions"? Yeah... I'll stick with the optimal playthrough as the canon playthrough....


No, no. If we're talking in ME2 terms, it'd be the Shepard who had everyone survive the Suicide Mission ... yet who had no idea who Kasumi, Zaeed, or David Archer were.


DLC is canon.... if it's in my game it's canon.... Just like Dawngaurd will be canon for Skyrim and Shivering isles was for Oblivion....


Yeah, Skyrim's Sheogorath kinda pissed me off.

I dont know who that guy in the Sheogorath quest in Skyrim is, but it sure as hell isnt my character like it should be.

They should have simply used Haskill in Skyrim, like they did for the Sheogorath shrine quest in Oblivion if you did the main Shivering Isles quest line first.

#14674
HellishFiend

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

It's not significant. It uses the base model as used in Vancouver. Then the material is changed to get it its see through look, and another material is applied on that to have it dissolve.


Even if you're right, which I'd be inclined to think that you are, I wouldnt buy the explanation that his appearance just spazzes out in such a conveniently symbolic fashion during the control ending. During the above mentioned glitch, perhaps, but I think it means something in Control, mainly because it parallels so well with the gun. 

#14675
balance5050

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byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Oh you mean boring fail Shep? The one who has the most possible characters die because of his "decisions"? Yeah... I'll stick with the optimal playthrough as the canon playthrough....


No, no. If we're talking in ME2 terms, it'd be the Shepard who had everyone survive the Suicide Mission ... yet who had no idea who Kasumi, Zaeed, or David Archer were.


DLC is canon.... if it's in my game it's canon.... Just like Dawngaurd will be canon for Skyrim and Shivering isles was for Oblivion....


Yeah, Skyrim's Sheogorath kinda pissed me off.

I dont know who that guy in the Sheogorath quest in Skyrim is, but it sure as hell isnt my character like it should be.

They should have simply used Haskill in Skyrim, like they did for the Sheogorath shrine quest in Oblivion if you did the main Shivering Isles quest line first.


Someone tried to justify it to me that the insanity of the Shivering Isles basically molds you into classic Sheogorath we see.