55528 réponses à ce sujet

[ShepnTali]

If I may make a humble suggestion...


Perhaps changing the thread title to something like 'pro IT theory discussion only' would be a good idea. There's no reason for haters to even bother in here. Just like a pro ending thread shouldn't be harrased either.

[DirtyPhoenix]

balance5050 wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 BYNE BYNE!!

This has some significance IMHO:


 

Using this as proof of opposition now. Does not mention it being a dream. They want specualtion on how you think Shepard died. HE/SHE IS  DEAD!

Says Shepard Alive right at the top of the page, and he was alive at the end of my game.

Also the breath cutscene is labelled shepard_alive.. that pretty much seals it.

[M Hedonist]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

HE/SHE IS  DEAD!

Yeah you really seem uninformed about this whole discussion.

[paxxton]

paxxton wrote...

Everybody who wants to cheer up after the closure of the original thread - check out my awesome signature.

I know, I know. Shameless repost.

[Rosewind]

byne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Byne I have an Idea why don't we make our own group?

There, I made a group. I dont actually understand how groups work, so someone should probly explain it to me, but I made one.

I think it acts like a mini forum and you can make settings to it where it can be private or public that kind of thing.

[DJBare]

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

I'll just leave these here.
When Anderson says "They're controlling you", he looks directly at the camera (which is currently Shepard's POV) upon saying the word "You".
You can see this in video form here.

snip
snip
snip

Hey, you're right, he look right at the camera.

In the vid it could be just as well Shepard, he's looking at. But in either case, he isn't looking at TIM.

He is definitely looking at the camera(the player), I'm convinced Bioware was going after the player for full effect.

[Arcadian Legend]

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

I... I don't understand... Why was it locked down?

Because of your chit-chat with Mr. IT.

But off the record, was it not legendary? I mean, there was a hilarious side conversation between him and HK, while nothing was lost due to you guys being allowed to make another thread about IT. 

[byne]

ShepnTali wrote...

If I may make a humble suggestion...


Perhaps changing the thread title to something like 'pro IT theory discussion only' would be a good idea. There's no reason for haters to even bother in here. Just like a pro ending thread shouldn't be harrased either.

That wouldnt stop the haters though.

Plus pro-IT only would keep out Epyon, unless he's changed his mind about IT recently.

And I like Epyon!

[Ownaholic]

byne wrote...

I always knew Anderson was Sergeant Johnson!

Anyhow, I tend to not put much weight behind where the characters seem to be looking. I've noticed in a couple of conversations with Liara, her eyeline seems to be off, like she isnt actually looking at Shep.

In my documentary, I make a note about how there is an article in the Collector's Edition guidebook that talks about how the developers deliberately pay key attention to eye points in cinematics like this. In regular gameplay, it's easy to get glitched (like when Shepard is taling to Liara and they are both looking at Glyph).
But in cutscenes, they pay specific attention to the eyes.

You can see that snippet in the video here. 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 55 seconds in.

[Nauks]

byne wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...
-image snip-

Anyhow, I tend to not put much weight behind where the characters seem to be looking. I've noticed in a couple of conversations with Liara, her eyeline seems to be off, like she isnt actually looking at Shep.

That's a good point.
We could assume though that since it's such an important part of the story (they even bothered to use a specific weapon for the cutscenes after all, that's as rare a it comes) that they were actually paying attention this time to get it right. =)

Modifié par Nauks, 14 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[Ownaholic]

Nauks wrote...

byne wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...
-image snip-

Anyhow, I tend to not put much weight behind where the characters seem to be looking. I've noticed in a couple of conversations with Liara, her eyeline seems to be off, like she isnt actually looking at Shep.

That's a good point.
We could assume that since it's such an important part of the story (they even bothered to use a speciffic weapon for the cutscenes after all, that's as rare a it comes) that they were actually paying attention this time to get it right. =)

Not to utterly re-post. But it's easy for things to get lost in this topic.

In my documentary, I make a note about how there is an article in the Collector's Edition guidebook that talks about how the developers deliberately pay key attention to eye points in cinematics like this. In regular gameplay, it's easy to get glitched (like when Shepard is taling to Liara and they are both looking at Glyph).
But in cutscenes, they pay specific attention to the eyes.

You can see that snippet in the video here. 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 55 seconds in.

[ExtendedCut]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

I was going to suggest that maybe those opposing shadows could suggest the opposite facets of personality, but that's probably been mentioned before. I'm still not completely convinced that it wasn't just a lighting issue.

Fair point. But the shadows seem to magically work again after TIM is shot...

Here another great pic made by

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Shadows move quite a bit.

Yes, part of my point... and what might that suggest? 

Either the shadows resolved themselves because the lighting was right or...

Notice in the above graphic how no shadow really stays constant, for example, Shepard's Shadow almost looks like (math term) a vector superposition from TIM's and Anderson's shadows. In the end TIM's is almost gone, TIM's shadow is almost gone and Anderson's and Shep's are now pointing in the same direction as the console.

Could be interpreted in various ways, like Shep and his paragon side are now both in accord to the 'real' world, more balanced. status quo, etc.

I have always taken the shadow discrepancy and the screenshots of that scene to be a sort-of metaphor for TIM and Anderson acting as Shepard's subconsciousness. 

As in, these "images/metaphors" of TIM and Anderson are acting as the little Angel and the little Devil on Shepard's shoulders.   In some of these screenshots - TIM and Anderson appear to almost be positioned in an equilateral triangle around Shepard's head - as if "whispering in his ear".  That being the case, the opposing shadows may have more to do with Shepard's subconscious projections of TIM and Anderson (maybe from opposing moral ideals), rather than actual physical shadows.

But, as you say, this can be interpreted in many, many ways.

[SS2Dante]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dante, I saw some of those assets. There is one to your right as you start walking to the choices. These items are hard to spot since they are also shown very quickly throughout the game and while under fire from Geth Primes lol.

You're telling me! glad I destroyed the Geth heretics, otherwise apparently there are a lot more of em to fight

[Ravereth]

Ownaholic wrote...

Right...Well. I'm going to go ahead and re-post what I just wrote five seconds ago. You guys are focusing on the last topic instead of evidence. xD

I just realized something very small, but interesting.
This one really does fit the bill of "grasping at straws", but it's interesting nonetheless.

When Anderson says "He's controlling you!", he actually looks at Shepard. Shepard is not shown on-screen, but he is standing behind TIM during this scene, at a closer-to-the-camera angle, which is where Anderson is looking.
37:10
Watch Anderson's eyes. He doesn't look at TIM. He looks at Shepard.If he was looking at TIM, his eyes would be slightly off to the right. But he's looking right over TIM's left shoulder.
His eyes connect DIRECTLY with where Shepard is standing.

First time I played the ending I didn't know what's going on and for me it was really hard to understand anything, and while Anderson said: "Listen to yourself you're indoctrinated!" I was like: Hey wait a second are you talking to me?!

And during  this whole conversation with TIM, I knew only one thing, that I HAVE to DESTROY the reapers, but few minutes later when my Shep was talking with this starchild  I forgot about this and my reaction to this conversation was: awwww this starchild is right I don't need to destroy the reapers we can be friends and live int he world full of love, peace, friendship and spacemagic <3... 

Seriously... it's just like this situation when someone tells you to:

S: Spell "hop."
You: H-O-P
S: Spell "cop."
You: C-O-P
S: Spell "top."
You: T-O-P
S: What do you do at a green light? 
You: Stop. 
You: wait a second! what did i just say?!


PS. I just realized that if you choose destroy or control ending you can change your decision in any moment because the game needs you to "do" something (shoot the tube(destroy) or press spacebar(control)) before the cutscene starts, but if you are to far on this path to synthesis you just can't go back and change your decision... Is it just me or this is weird?... 
BTW I want our thread back 

[nightcobra]

 also, interesting thing to note that TIM walks away from the central command panel if he wins, you'd think it would be his first priority to go and activate the crucible.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 14 mai 2012 - 06:06 .

[dreamgazer]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
 BYNE BYNE!!
This has some significance IMHO:

 

Using this as proof of opposition now. Does not mention it being a dream. They want specualtion on how you think Shepard died. HE/SHE IS  DEAD!

You do realize this isn't a law-binding contract that proves or disproves the theory, but an early-in-development artifact that shows that they were wanting to generate speculation over whether Shepard dies or not, right?  Core evidence that we're not to take what's going on at face-value.

If you want a more concrete example of BioWare's motivation towards incorporating elements of Shepard's indoctrination, the excerpt from the Final Hours app showcases that (though it's against forum rules to post that screen capture, I believe). 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 14 mai 2012 - 06:06 .

[DJBare]

Here is my short headcanon for Shepard waking up.

Shepard learn the crucible is yet another reaper trap like the relays and the citadel, the reaper heart that was added to the crucible is an indoctrination device and the crucible amplifies it's effects, Shepard will have to fight his way to the reaper heart and destroy it.

[estebanus]

ShepnTali wrote...

If I may make a humble suggestion...


Perhaps changing the thread title to something like 'pro IT theory discussion only' would be a good idea. There's no reason for haters to even bother in here. Just like a pro ending thread shouldn't be harrased either.

Makes sense, I guess.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Nauks wrote...

byne wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...
-image snip-

Anyhow, I tend to not put much weight behind where the characters seem to be looking. I've noticed in a couple of conversations with Liara, her eyeline seems to be off, like she isnt actually looking at Shep.

That's a good point.
We could assume that since it's such an important part of the story (they even bothered to use a speciffic weapon for the cutscenes after all, that's as rare a it comes) that they were actually paying attention this time to get it right. =)

Actually that is very good point.

Think about this. Throughout the game when talking to the crew minor glitches with the eyes are not uncommon, but I cannot remember a single instance of the eyes beeing of during important cinematics, especially the end where we are multiple people here who are seeing the "Anderson looks right at the camera."

It is pretty clear it was deliberate placement, even more so if you consier that Bioware specifically said nothing was coincedental when it came to the important scenes, not the line of the eyes or the camera placement,

[estebanus]

DJBare wrote...

Here is my short headcanon for Shepard waking up.

Shepard learn the crucible is yet another reaper trap like the relays and the citadel, the reaper heart that was added to the crucible is an indoctrination device and the crucible amplifies it's effects, Shepard will have to fight his way to the reaper heart and destroy it.

But what happens after the reaper heart/brain is destroyed? I mean, the fleets are still battling the reapers, aren't they?

[The Invisible Commando]

Sauruz wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

HE/SHE IS  DEAD!

Yeah you really seem uninformed about this whole discussion.

Real the paper detailing the ending. The 'breathe' scene at the end that caused this whole IT mess is only in one ending and if your lucky to see it. I have seen simular scenes at the end of movies. Example: X-Men series.

So if i pick Control or Synthesis Shepard stays dead? Long way to go for killing Shepard when another Harby beam could do the trick.

[Stigweird85]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Wait so to get the real ending I need to fire the Crucible so it can Destroy the Reapers the same way it did in the 'dream world'. Is that not just getting the same ending twice? Seriously.

Leave it up to Bioware to make a real ending? Why make a fake in the first place? If you believe in IT then you tell me what the real ending is or it all falls apart.

Real ending is whatever you want it to be(at least until EC comes out)

You are/were Shepard, what ever you though was the right choice was the right choice fore you, with IT we believe that there is more to it than what it seems and that as both Control and Synthesis was encouraged by(Saren and TIM who are both known to be indoctrinated)  then destroy is the good option and therefore the only one that offers the chance that Shepard lives to fight another day.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Ravereth wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

Right...Well. I'm going to go ahead and re-post what I just wrote five seconds ago. You guys are focusing on the last topic instead of evidence. xD

I just realized something very small, but interesting.
This one really does fit the bill of "grasping at straws", but it's interesting nonetheless.

When Anderson says "He's controlling you!", he actually looks at Shepard. Shepard is not shown on-screen, but he is standing behind TIM during this scene, at a closer-to-the-camera angle, which is where Anderson is looking.
37:10
Watch Anderson's eyes. He doesn't look at TIM. He looks at Shepard.If he was looking at TIM, his eyes would be slightly off to the right. But he's looking right over TIM's left shoulder.
His eyes connect DIRECTLY with where Shepard is standing.

First time I played the ending I didn't know what's going on and for me it was really hard to understand anything, and while Anderson said: "Listen to yourself you're indoctrinated!" I was like: Hey wait a second are you talking to me?!

And during  this whole conversation with TIM, I knew only one thing, that I HAVE to DESTROY the reapers, but few minutes later when my Shep was talking with this starchild  I forgot about this and my reaction to this conversation was: awwww this starchild is right I don't need to destroy the reapers we can be friends and live int he world full of love, peace, friendship and spacemagic <3... 

Seriously... it's just like this situation when someone tells you to:

S: Spell "hop."
You: H-O-P
S: Spell "cop."
You: C-O-P
S: Spell "top."
You: T-O-P
S: What do you do at a green light? 
You: Stop. 
You: wait a second! what did i just say?!


PS. I just realized that if you choose destroy or control ending you can change your decision in any moment because the game needs you to "do" something (shoot the tube(destroy) or press spacebar(control)) before the cutscene starts, but if you are to far on this path to synthesis you just can't go back and change your decision... Is it just me or this is weird?... 
BTW I want our thread back 

In the destroy ending when you get close enough to the tube you are glued to the floor and can't move

[estebanus]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

estebanus wrote...

I... I don't understand... Why was it locked down?

Because of your chit-chat with Mr. IT.

But off the record, was it not legendary? I mean, there was a hilarious side conversation between him and HK, while nothing was lost due to you guys being allowed to make another thread about IT. 

If you say so...

[Ownaholic]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Nauks wrote...

byne wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...
-image snip-

Anyhow, I tend to not put much weight behind where the characters seem to be looking. I've noticed in a couple of conversations with Liara, her eyeline seems to be off, like she isnt actually looking at Shep.

That's a good point.
We could assume that since it's such an important part of the story (they even bothered to use a speciffic weapon for the cutscenes after all, that's as rare a it comes) that they were actually paying attention this time to get it right. =)

Actually that is very good point.

Think about this. Throughout the game when talking to the crew minor glitches with the eyes are not uncommon, but I cannot remember a single instance of the eyes beeing of during important cinematics, especially the end where we are multiple people here who are seeing the "Anderson looks right at the camera."

It is pretty clear it was deliberate placement, even more so if you consier that Bioware specifically said nothing was coincedental when it came to the important scenes, not the line of the eyes or the camera placement,

Haha this thread is ridiculous. Third time posting this: xD

In my documentary, I make a note about how there is an article in the Collector's Edition guidebook that talks about how the developers deliberately pay key attention to eye points in cinematics like this. In regular gameplay, it's easy to get glitched (like when Shepard is taling to Liara and they are both looking at Glyph).
But in cutscenes, they pay specific attention to the eyes.

You can see that snippet in the video here. 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 55 seconds in.