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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#15401
Dendio1

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I just don't see IT happening. Its great fan theory, but the world does not work that way. Bioware would not plan to release a completely new ending to their game half a year after launch for free. Everything they have said up to this point suggests they are simply adding closure and clarity to the ending. Indoc would have them add an entire mission to wrap things up in addition to a real denouement.

Bioware released a final hours app detailing the devs view of the mass effect series from start to finish. It clearly says they want shepard to show emotion from the war and not being able to save everyone. It clearly talks about the decision to have star kid only tell shepard what he needed to know, rather than explain everything.

The devs have corrected people over the current ending, by saying things like the relays didnt blow up or the fleets wont be stranded. If IT was real, they would'nt have bothered explaining a false ending. Also the reveal would have happened months ago and the dlc would not have been an "unexpected project" as the returning voice actors put it.

I think an indoctrination plot would be a fun piece of dlc to add in the future, and I would like for them to alter the ending to fit one in, but such things are not offered for free, nor are they trivial. I don't think any game has ever altered its ending the way people are hoping for.

Modifié par Dendio1, 09 juin 2012 - 06:57 .


#15402
HellishFiend

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Starbuck8 wrote...


Well since the thread is going at a moderate pace tonight, I'll contribute a small thought to the discussion about using gooified people to create a reaper and, maybe indirectly to the resurrecting Shep discussion. People seem to get hung up on how using DNA/goo from people could translate into creating an intelligence in a reaper. Well, at least in the Mass Effect universe, there seems to be more than just the basic building blocks of life in a person's DNA or residue. Javik makes this clear when he can clearly read aspecs of a person's personality or life story just from being in the same room that they were in months ago. So I suppose there is precedent for transferring feelings, personality, thoughts from a person beyond what exists only within that person's brain. I forget what Javik says specifically about it, but I'm sure you'll remember from first bringing Javik aboard the Normandy.

Edit: Snipped some of the quotes that didn't pertain to my post.


Love this, Starbuck! Never thought about that before. It just raises the question, if that is the case, how are the thoughts/memories/personalities/etc put to "use" by the Reapers? Why do they need it to make a Reaper? How is it controlled and kept in line?

#15403
Starbuck8

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Dendio1 wrote...

I just don't see IT happening. Its great fan theory, but the world does not work that way. Bioware would not plan to release a completely new ending to their game half a year after launch for free. Everything they have said up to this point suggests they are simply adding closure and clarity to the ending. Indoc would have them add an entire mission to wrap things up in addition to a real denouement.

Bioware released a final hours app detailing the devs view of the mass effect series from start to finish. It clearly says they want shepard to show emotion from the war and not being able to save everyone. It clearly talks about the decision to have star kid only tell shepard what he needed to know, rather than explain everything.

The devs have corrected people over the current ending, by saying things like the relays didnt blow up or the fleets wont be stranded. If IT was real, they would'nt have bothered explaining a false ending. Also the reveal would have happened months ago and the dlc would not have been an "unexpected project" as the returning voice actors put it.

I think an indoctrination plot would be a fun piece of dlc to add in the future, and I would like for them to alter the ending to fit one in, but such things are not offered for free, nor are they trivial. I don't think any game has ever altered its ending the way people are hoping for.


Several people have addressed these things that you have just restated from your previous post, so you may want to go back a few pages and read them. Anyway, if that's the way you feel, you're totally entitled to your opinion. We will just have to see in a few months what the EC has in store for us! :)

#15404
HellishFiend

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Dendio1 wrote...

I just don't see IT happening. Its great fan theory, but the world does not work that way. Bioware would not plan to release a completely new ending to their game half a year after launch for free. Everything they have said up to this point suggests they are simply adding closure and clarity to the ending. Indoc would have them add an entire mission to wrap things up in addition to a real denouement.

Bioware released a final hours app detailing the devs view of the mass effect series from start to finish. It clearly says they want shepard to show emotion from the war and not being able to save everyone. It clearly talks about the decision to have star kid only tell shepard what he needed to know, rather than explain everything.

The devs have corrected people over the current ending, by saying things like the relays didnt blow up or the fleets wont be stranded. If IT was real, they would'nt have bothered explaining a false ending. Also the reveal would have happened months ago and the dlc would not have been an "unexpected project" as the returning voice actors put it.

I think an indoctrination plot would be a fun piece of dlc to add in the future, and I would like for them to alter the ending to fit one in, but such things are not offered for free, nor are they trivial. I don't think any game has ever altered its ending the way people are hoping for.



Dendio1, you are back again tonight with these same sentiments, even though I think I spoke for everyone when I iterated our stance on the issue.

If you missed it, here it is:

HellishFiend wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Yea im done. Ive been avoiding taking sides, but I think we have enough counter evidence to abandon the theory


Your choice. I find myself using the word immaterial 2 posts in a row, because that's what your conclusion is. What the EC is - and what the truth is - is already set in stone. What we choose to believe is besides the point. Most of us in this topic are enjoying ourselves. Enjoying the wait between now and the EC by speculating. If you want to abandon the theory and take another course of action (such as brooding or complaining), that is your choice. 

 

So, I have to ask you something.

Why are you back again, reiterating your sentiments? Are you trying to rationalize your own belief to yourself and using us as a sounding board? Are you trying to impress your belief upon us? Or are you trying to discourage us because you, yourself are discouraged?

You're entitled to your opinion and I dont personally think any less of you as a person for having it. It's fine. But I cant respond to you without knowing why you are raising and reiterating your sentiments in this topic to begin with. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 09 juin 2012 - 07:09 .


#15405
balance5050

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This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/

Modifié par balance5050, 09 juin 2012 - 07:06 .


#15406
Starbuck8

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HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


Well since the thread is going at a moderate pace tonight, I'll contribute a small thought to the discussion about using gooified people to create a reaper and, maybe indirectly to the resurrecting Shep discussion. People seem to get hung up on how using DNA/goo from people could translate into creating an intelligence in a reaper. Well, at least in the Mass Effect universe, there seems to be more than just the basic building blocks of life in a person's DNA or residue. Javik makes this clear when he can clearly read aspecs of a person's personality or life story just from being in the same room that they were in months ago. So I suppose there is precedent for transferring feelings, personality, thoughts from a person beyond what exists only within that person's brain. I forget what Javik says specifically about it, but I'm sure you'll remember from first bringing Javik aboard the Normandy.

Edit: Snipped some of the quotes that didn't pertain to my post.


Love this, Starbuck! Never thought about that before. It just raises the question, if that is the case, how are the thoughts/memories/personalities/etc put to "use" by the Reapers? Why do they need it to make a Reaper? How is it controlled and kept in line?


As far as being conrolled/kept in line, perhaps the thoughts/memories/personalities etc are transferred or uploaded, but the soul is lost. The soul is a big theme throughout ME, as we discussed. Perhaps without the soul, the new reaper consciousness willingly agrees with the reaper logic of (to simplify) chaos bad, order good.

Pure speculation :P always fun.

#15407
Starbuck8

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balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:

#15408
balance5050

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Starbuck8 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:


The EC description is what we've already been told 

"An expanded ending for Mass Effect 3. Additional scenes and an extended epilogue reveal the impact of Shepard's choices on the future of the galaxy.

(Nothing that you guys didn't already know about the Extended Cut, but it's at least done.)"

Modifié par balance5050, 09 juin 2012 - 07:10 .


#15409
balance5050

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Mass Effect™ 3: Earth:

The fighting is fiercest when it's your home at stake! Mass Effect 3™: Earth adds mods, gear, and new maps for Rio, Vancouver, and London. It features 3 new weapons: Piranha assault shotgun, Acolyte pistol, and Typhoon light machine gun. Six new human N7 classes are also available: Destroyer, Paladin, Demolisher, Slayer, Shadow, and Fury!

#15410
HellishFiend

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Starbuck8 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:


Essentially, an established "informant" with some measure of actual credibility has informed us that the EC is "done"....

#15411
Arian Dynas

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Dendio1 wrote...

I just don't see IT happening. Its great fan theory, but the world does not work that way. Bioware would not plan to release a completely new ending to their game half a year after launch for free. Everything they have said up to this point suggests they are simply adding closure and clarity to the ending. Indoc would have them add an entire mission to wrap things up in addition to a real denouement.

Bioware released a final hours app detailing the devs view of the mass effect series from start to finish. It clearly says they want shepard to show emotion from the war and not being able to save everyone. It clearly talks about the decision to have star kid only tell shepard what he needed to know, rather than explain everything.

The devs have corrected people over the current ending, by saying things like the relays didnt blow up or the fleets wont be stranded. If IT was real, they would'nt have bothered explaining a false ending. Also the reveal would have happened months ago and the dlc would not have been an "unexpected project" as the returning voice actors put it.

I think an indoctrination plot would be a fun piece of dlc to add in the future, and I would like for them to alter the ending to fit one in, but such things are not offered for free, nor are they trivial. I don't think any game has ever altered its ending the way people are hoping for.


One, if you're going to reuse a post, at least be subtle about it.

Two; Yes they would, I would explain to you a myriad of buisness reasons why, but I highly doubt you care to listen. If you do, ask me again later.

Three. Casey Hudson EXPLICITLY STATED in an interveiw that he wants the player to feel what Shepard feels, not to showcase Shepard's emotions, which he never even mentioned. Who are you going to belive? The second hand source of the Final Hours app, which by the way does not preclude what Casey said, or the words straight from the horse's mouth to you?

Four. Yes the would have to keep people calm, and if you look at that interveiw which was one joe blow having a chitchat with Weekes, not even bothering to record it or write it down and thus paraphrasing throughout the whole thing, you would notice the parts where he COULD quote Weekes, he was speaking in the speculative, "if the Citadel DID blow up." "If this DID happen." As for why it is unexpected, well that goes back to the buisness reasons I could explain for your benefit, but won't bother since I am certain you aren't interested in listening.

Five.They are not trivial, but they are offered for free, which is basically what your argument hinges on. Firewalker and Zaeed were free, does that mean they never happened too? Oh and Broken Steel. Look it up. Your argument is invalid.

#15412
Starbuck8

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balance5050 wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:


The EC description is what we've already been told 

"An expanded ending for Mass Effect 3. Additional scenes and an extended epilogue reveal the impact of Shepard's choices on the future of the galaxy.

(Nothing that you guys didn't already know about the Extended Cut, but it's at least done.)"


Done? Then why isn't it on my xbox right nao. :?

#15413
Dendio1

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HellishFiend wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

I just don't see IT happening. Its great fan theory, but the world does not work that way. Bioware would not plan to release a completely new ending to their game half a year after launch for free. Everything they have said up to this point suggests they are simply adding closure and clarity to the ending. Indoc would have them add an entire mission to wrap things up in addition to a real denouement.

Bioware released a final hours app detailing the devs view of the mass effect series from start to finish. It clearly says they want shepard to show emotion from the war and not being able to save everyone. It clearly talks about the decision to have star kid only tell shepard what he needed to know, rather than explain everything.

The devs have corrected people over the current ending, by saying things like the relays didnt blow up or the fleets wont be stranded. If IT was real, they would'nt have bothered explaining a false ending. Also the reveal would have happened months ago and the dlc would not have been an "unexpected project" as the returning voice actors put it.

I think an indoctrination plot would be a fun piece of dlc to add in the future, and I would like for them to alter the ending to fit one in, but such things are not offered for free, nor are they trivial. I don't think any game has ever altered its ending the way people are hoping for.



Dendio1, you are back again tonight with these same sentiments, even though I think I spoke for everyone when I iterated our stance on the issue.

If you missed it, here it is:

HellishFiend wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Yea im done. Ive been avoiding taking sides, but I think we have enough counter evidence to abandon the theory


Your choice. I find myself using the word immaterial 2 posts in a row, because that's what your conclusion is. What the EC is - and what the truth is - is already set in stone. What we choose to believe is besides the point. Most of us in this topic are enjoying ourselves. Enjoying the wait between now and the EC by speculating. If you want to abandon the theory and take another course of action (such as brooding or complaining), that is your choice. 

 

So, I have to ask you something.

Why are you back again, reiterating your sentiments? Are you trying to rationalize your own belief to yourself and using us as a sounding board? Are you trying to impress your belief upon us? Or are you trying to discourage us because you, yourself are discouraged?

You're entitled to your opinion and I dont personally think any less of you as a person for having it. It's fine. But I cant respond to you without knowing why you are raising and reiterating your sentiments in this topic to begin with. 


Essentially i'm reading, I refuse to acknowledge what you wrote and you are entitled to you opinion.

#15414
Arian Dynas

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HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


Well since the thread is going at a moderate pace tonight, I'll contribute a small thought to the discussion about using gooified people to create a reaper and, maybe indirectly to the resurrecting Shep discussion. People seem to get hung up on how using DNA/goo from people could translate into creating an intelligence in a reaper. Well, at least in the Mass Effect universe, there seems to be more than just the basic building blocks of life in a person's DNA or residue. Javik makes this clear when he can clearly read aspecs of a person's personality or life story just from being in the same room that they were in months ago. So I suppose there is precedent for transferring feelings, personality, thoughts from a person beyond what exists only within that person's brain. I forget what Javik says specifically about it, but I'm sure you'll remember from first bringing Javik aboard the Normandy.

Edit: Snipped some of the quotes that didn't pertain to my post.


Love this, Starbuck! Never thought about that before. It just raises the question, if that is the case, how are the thoughts/memories/personalities/etc put to "use" by the Reapers? Why do they need it to make a Reaper? How is it controlled and kept in line?


Genetic memory. Hmm, seems kinda... Dune, but well, as we saw with Tchanka, someone at Bioware is a huge Dune fan, so why not?

#15415
gunslinger_ruiz

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balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


I really don't like these leaks, I mean for one the spoilers (didn't read past the first line), and what if Bioware decides to go in a different direction and pushes teh DLC dates back even further because of them. Can't be that hard to leave it all to surprise o_o. Also, skimming your next posts, please try not to spoil too much for those of us who don't want spoilers...


@HellishFiend
I get the feeling he's either trying to poke/prod us for the sake of messing with people, or he's hoping someone will refute what he's saying so he can believe in a better EC.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 09 juin 2012 - 07:18 .


#15416
Arian Dynas

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HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:


Essentially, an established "informant" with some measure of actual credibility has informed us that the EC is "done"....


The Reddit despair circlejerk there disgusts me.

#15417
HellishFiend

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Dendio1 wrote...

Essentially i'm reading, I refuse to acknowledge what you wrote and you are entitled to you opinion.


Thanks, you just confirmed what I already suspected: that conversing with you is not worth my time. 

#15418
Starbuck8

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HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:


Essentially, an established "informant" with some measure of actual credibility has informed us that the EC is "done"....


Hey there's always the possibility they were fed false/misleading information, I mean it is just a restatement of what's already been said. Okay I don't know what he leaked previously, but maybe this person was used only for MP beta testing and the MP testers were all given this statement about the EC. And if it is done, why haven't they at least announced a realse date, they must like torturing us :D

#15419
balance5050

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Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:


Essentially, an established "informant" with some measure of actual credibility has informed us that the EC is "done"....


The Reddit despair circlejerk there disgusts me.


Me too, I used to like reddit more or less but now i'm aware of the dark side....

About the leak, the poster says that the EC is done, so I won't get anyone's hopes up but I think it may announce at comicon that they're releasing it that same day or something.

Modifié par balance5050, 09 juin 2012 - 07:22 .


#15420
Arian Dynas

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Starbuck8 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


Afraid to look. Dont like spoilers... :pinched:


Essentially, an established "informant" with some measure of actual credibility has informed us that the EC is "done"....


Hey there's always the possibility they were fed false/misleading information, I mean it is just a restatement of what's already been said. Okay I don't know what he leaked previously, but maybe this person was used only for MP beta testing and the MP testers were all given this statement about the EC. And if it is done, why haven't they at least announced a realse date, they must like torturing us :D


Maps for Rio, Vancouver and London hmm? Additional scenes and an extended epilogue. We might be lucky and they've decided to give us an additional 3 missions, or the game will end with us having a chance, but we're still fighting the Reapers on Earth.

#15421
HellishFiend

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Genetic memory. Hmm, seems kinda... Dune, but well, as we saw with Tchanka, someone at Bioware is a huge Dune fan, so why not?


To be fair, Mass Effect as a whole seems kind of Star Control 3, but I dont view that as a detractor at all, because while I greatly enjoyed Star Control 3, I happen to like the way Bioware handled this type of plot better. 

Nothing wrong with taking an existing concept, mixing it with new concepts, and making it into something better. 

#15422
Arian Dynas

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HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Genetic memory. Hmm, seems kinda... Dune, but well, as we saw with Tchanka, someone at Bioware is a huge Dune fan, so why not?


To be fair, Mass Effect as a whole seems kind of Star Control 3, but I dont view that as a detractor at all, because while I greatly enjoyed Star Control 3, I happen to like the way Bioware handled this type of plot better. 

Nothing wrong with taking an existing concept, mixing it with new concepts, and making it into something better. 


The only problem I have with it is well, Dune doesn't seem to FIT Mass Effect paticuarly well, but eh, I could be wrong.

#15423
Starbuck8

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

This guy's first leak was spot on, and now he just leaked more information on MP-DLC as well as the extended cut.

http://www.reddit.co..._to_believe_me/


I really don't like these leaks, I mean for one the spoilers (didn't read past the first line), and what if Bioware decides to go in a different direction and pushes teh DLC dates back even further because of them. Can't be that hard to leave it all to surprise o_o. Also, skimming your next posts, please try not to spoil too much for those of us who don't want spoilers...


@HellishFiend
I get the feeling he's either trying to poke/prod us for the sake of messing with people, or he's hoping someone will refute what he's saying so he can believe in a better EC.


Yeah from what I've heard about what went down before ME3 was realeased, they cut/changed a lot of things because of these leaks. And it kinda feels like we got a slightly rushed, less quality product because of it. (Am I right/wrong?) So i don't like it. And gunslinger apparently he just restated almost exactly what BW has already said about EC on their FAQ page... so yeah.

#15424
HellishFiend

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@HellishFiend
I get the feeling he's either trying to poke/prod us for the sake of messing with people, or he's hoping someone will refute what he's saying so he can believe in a better EC.


In any case, people should be up front about their purpose in any given topic. A post in a topic should contribute to that topic's discussion. I did not understand what kind of discussion he was expecting from us, so I asked for clarification. I received none. Therefore no discussion will be forthcoming on my part.

#15425
HellishFiend

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Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Genetic memory. Hmm, seems kinda... Dune, but well, as we saw with Tchanka, someone at Bioware is a huge Dune fan, so why not?


To be fair, Mass Effect as a whole seems kind of Star Control 3, but I dont view that as a detractor at all, because while I greatly enjoyed Star Control 3, I happen to like the way Bioware handled this type of plot better. 

Nothing wrong with taking an existing concept, mixing it with new concepts, and making it into something better. 


The only problem I have with it is well, Dune doesn't seem to FIT Mass Effect paticuarly well, but eh, I could be wrong.


I dont know much about Dune, so I cant comment on that. I was just trying to reassure you that using plot arcs that have been done before is not a bad thing. :happy: