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[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Back on topic, does anyone find it weird that The Illusive Man would have gone to the Citadel like he did, after activating the Prothean beacon and discovering just how many times the "control" pattern had been attempted before? Or did this 'control' group have an ace up their sleaves the same way civilization - in general - had the crucible?

I find the entire situation of "TIM finds identity of Catalyst, TIM scampers off to inform Reapers" very hard to swallow. I dont know what to peg it on, though. Was the VI hacked or misinformed to say that? If it was, why? 

If not, then why the heck would TIM do that? He still thinks he is opposing the Reapers, so it makes no sense that he would run off and tell them to guard the Citadel. 

I don't think he DID tell them. But I think as soon as he knew, they did too. And, well, read my script for my opinion on where he went.

You could very well be right about that, however the VI specifies that he ran off to intentionally inform the Reapers. Poor choice of words on the part of the VI? Perhaps. But that just adds to the strangeness of the situation. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Possible the VI didn't tell him that part, or that he didnt eve ntalk with the VI just mined for data. Also possible that he knew but thought he was...superior to earlier attempts, thought he was different, better, that they couldn't control him because he could control others.

Very plausible. I guess the real quesiton is - if IDT is canon - did TIM succeed?

That's heavy to speculate on depending on the nature of IDT. If it's true it's possible TIM was the one responsible for your initial attempt then as he died in the illusion Harbinger took over. Or, if Harbinger is responsible for it all then TIM is only used as a "devil on your shoulder" in sequence and if that's the case it's possible TIM is already dead or a super-husk on the Citadel. Or maybe he managed to stay hidden and is still waiting for his time to strike and use the Crucible, but like I said heavy speculation.

[HellishFiend]

The whereabouts of TIM is one of those rare things that I am trying to refrain speculating on, because I think it will make a great surprise. But maybe I'm just biased because Martin Sheen is my favorite voice actor in the whole series.

[Starbuck8]

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Back on topic, does anyone find it weird that The Illusive Man would have gone to the Citadel like he did, after activating the Prothean beacon and discovering just how many times the "control" pattern had been attempted before? Or did this 'control' group have an ace up their sleaves the same way civilization - in general - had the crucible?

I find the entire situation of "TIM finds identity of Catalyst, TIM scampers off to inform Reapers" very hard to swallow. I dont know what to peg it on, though. Was the VI hacked or misinformed to say that? If it was, why? 

If not, then why the heck would TIM do that? He still thinks he is opposing the Reapers, so it makes no sense that he would run off and tell them to guard the Citadel. 

I don't think he DID tell them. But I think as soon as he knew, they did too. And, well, read my script for my opinion on where he went.

You could very well be right about that, however the VI specifies that he ran off to intentionally inform the Reapers. Poor choice of words on the part of the VI? Perhaps. But that just adds to the strangeness of the situation. 

Ugh, the whole situation with TIM at the end does not make sense, for exactly the reasons stated above. I was thinking maybe Kai Leng let Miranda plant that tracking device on him, as a trap set by TIM to lure Shepard to his base for a heavy dose of indoctrination vibes and/or to feed false information thru a hacked prothean VI while he escapes to Omega or whatever.

[Jadebaby]

Could it add to the Indoctrination Theory that the specific point you are standing when talking to the Catalyst is upside down?

Effectively you are standing under the Citadel Tower. This could be symbollic that things are backwards... Not what they seem maybe?

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

The whereabouts of TIM is one of those rare things that I am trying to refrain speculating on, because I think it will make a great surprise. But maybe I'm just biased because Martin Sheen is my favorite voice actor in the whole series.

Well, in my case, I wear leather dress shoes everywhere I go rather than sneakers, since I like the look of them and they're comfortable on my feet for the most part, I had to get rid of my old pair since they were rubbing on my feet and made the most horrible calluses across the tops of my toes from all the walking I did in them, so I ended up searching for a pair with slightly curled toes so that they wouldn't bend as much while walking, and then I realized.

Martin Sheen has ruined me for shoes of that style, I can't look at my shoes without thinking of the Illusive Man. 

Therefore, I have now dubbed them my Illusive Shoes.

[Erield]

HellishFiend wrote...

The whereabouts of TIM is one of those rare things that I am trying to refrain speculating on, because I think it will make a great surprise. But maybe I'm just biased because Martin Sheen is my favorite voice actor in the whole series.

While I agree that Sheen is a great VA, I always liked Ash Sroka/Tali better.

Less-sidetracked topic:  If IT is able to make TIM less of a psychotic wtf, then that's a good thing.  I loved hating him in ME2.  ME3 was just...just...yeah. 

[Starbuck8]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Could it add to the Indoctrination Theory that the specific point you are standing when talking to the Catalyst is upside down?

Effectively you are standing under the Citadel Tower. This could be symbollic that things are backwards... Not what they seem maybe?

Like a mirror universe or a weird dream. Highly speculative, but interesting. Side note: Have you ever looked in the mirror in a dream? Really creepy, at least in my dreams.

[Gladerunner]

Not sure if anyone's pointed this out (not many humans can read through several hundreds of pages of speculation and life advice) but the ME2 collector base destruction has the similar inversion of colors - the paragon option produces a red wave and the renegade option produces a blue wave. Same as the ME3 ending where the space magic ray colors are blue for control/renegade, etc.

[SubAstris]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Could it add to the Indoctrination Theory that the specific point you are standing when talking to the Catalyst is upside down?

Effectively you are standing under the Citadel Tower. This could be symbollic that things are backwards... Not what they seem maybe?

Let's just check in anything for the theory!

[Arian Dynas]

SubAstris wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Could it add to the Indoctrination Theory that the specific point you are standing when talking to the Catalyst is upside down?

Effectively you are standing under the Citadel Tower. This could be symbollic that things are backwards... Not what they seem maybe?

Let's just check in anything for the theory!

While that checks in, why don't you check out?

[Arian Dynas]

Oh by the way, before I depart for sleep, figured I would drop a link to offically the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life.

http://christwire.or...-sex-maneuvers/

Have fun.

[DJBare]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just my personal opinion, but it's not really a moral issue, it's more an issue of ignorance, let me try to explain, if we were at war with a race that was technically on the same level as us then taking any innovations/inventions the enemy come up with is no problem because technically we're at the same level.
Reaper tech on the other hand is millions of years advanced compared to our own, simply put it's like stone age man finding an atomic bomb, they keep hitting it with their clubs to see what happens, that's us with reaper tech, we like to think we are intelligent enough to work it out but that's because we have a problem saying "I don't know"; it's also why I'll stand by my statement that control is a fools errand, Shepard a mere human controlling billions of minds that are millions of years advanced?

Nice. you should post that in the control support thread and see what they come up with.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but the part I just bolded is why I keep my discussion limited, the problem is Bioware presented us with three possibilities, as an example they provide is with the option to play renegade or paragon, we are free to choose our own path, the three options presented at the end is similar, I have no problem if someone feels control is the best option, I only have a problem when people whine if their decision backfires on them, this is a game of choice and consequence, "consequence" being the operative word, what's the point of a game where every option is a win?

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par DJBare, 09 juin 2012 - 10:51 .

[Starbuck8]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh by the way, before I depart for sleep, figured I would drop a link to offically the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life.

http://christwire.or...-sex-maneuvers/

Have fun.

I read the first paragraph and almost choked on my food. Omg hates you so much for thisssss. Lol!

Edit: read the first sentence of the second paragraph and now I cannot stop laughing. I now love you for this hahahahaha

Modifié par Starbuck8, 09 juin 2012 - 10:35 .

[Overload_C14]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh by the way, before I depart for sleep, figured I would drop a link to offically the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life.

http://christwire.or...-sex-maneuvers/

Have fun.

I read the first paragraph and almost choked on my food. Omg hates you so much for thisssss. Lol!

Haha Ive seen that before, Those things are funny as heck to read XD

[Jadebaby]

DJBare wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just my personal opinion, but it's not really a moral issue, it's more an issue of ignorance, let me try to explain, if we were at war with a race that was technically on the same level as us then taking any innovations/inventions the enemy come up with is no problem because technically we're at the same level.
Reaper tech on the other hand is millions of years advanced compared to our own, simply put it's like stone age man finding an atomic bomb, they keep hitting it with their clubs to see what happens, that's us with reaper tech, we like to think we are intelligent enough to work it out but that's because we have a problem saying "I don't know"; it's also why I'll stand by my statement that control is a fools errand, Shepard a mere human controlling billions of minds that are millions of years advanced?

Nice. you should post that in the control support thread and see what they come up with.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but the part I just bolded is why I keep my discussion limited, the problem is Bioware presented us with three possibilities, as an example they provide is with the option to play renegade or paragon, we are free to choose our own path, the three options presented at the end is similar, I have no problem if someone feels control is the best option, I only have a problem when people whine if their decision backfires on them, this is a game of choice and consequence, "consequence" being the operative word, what's the point of a game where every option is a win?

But in this circumstance we don't really know what the consequences are, therefore you should spread your opinions, ideas, viewpoints and knowledge of the game to reach a higher understanding, a prime consensus.
While it will always be Bioware that have the final say, we can still speculate knowledgably to build a most-likely case scenario.

When I said post it in control, I didn't mean for it to be like 'in your face' or anything, but to genuinely read what their counter-viewpoint would be.

[Starbuck8]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh by the way, before I depart for sleep, figured I would drop a link to offically the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life.

http://christwire.or...-sex-maneuvers/

Have fun.

I read the first paragraph and almost choked on my food. Omg hates you so much for thisssss. Lol!

Edit: read the first sentence of the second paragraph and now I cannot stop laughing. I now love you for this hahahahaha

I wonder if they're the ones that made a ridiculous article on Pokemon a long time ago that I know people took seriously. Sometihng about teaching kids to poison each other. Anyway, we should really try and get back on topic. My face hurts.

[Starbuck8]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just my personal opinion, but it's not really a moral issue, it's more an issue of ignorance, let me try to explain, if we were at war with a race that was technically on the same level as us then taking any innovations/inventions the enemy come up with is no problem because technically we're at the same level.
Reaper tech on the other hand is millions of years advanced compared to our own, simply put it's like stone age man finding an atomic bomb, they keep hitting it with their clubs to see what happens, that's us with reaper tech, we like to think we are intelligent enough to work it out but that's because we have a problem saying "I don't know"; it's also why I'll stand by my statement that control is a fools errand, Shepard a mere human controlling billions of minds that are millions of years advanced?

Nice. you should post that in the control support thread and see what they come up with.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but the part I just bolded is why I keep my discussion limited, the problem is Bioware presented us with three possibilities, as an example they provide is with the option to play renegade or paragon, we are free to choose our own path, the three options presented at the end is similar, I have no problem if someone feels control is the best option, I only have a problem when people whine if their decision backfires on them, this is a game of choice and consequence, "consequence" being the operative word, what's the point of a game where every option is a win?

But in this circumstance we don't really know what the consequences are, therefore you should spread your opinions, ideas, viewpoints and knowledge of the game to reach a higher understanding, a prime consensus.
While it will always be Bioware that have the final say, we can still speculate knowledgably to build a most-likely case scenario.

When I said post it in control, I didn't mean for it to be like 'in your face' or anything, but to genuinely read what their counter-viewpoint would be.

I guess you just have to be very careful about how you word it. Even if you're really diplomatic or thoughful about it though, people outside this thread don't seem to be very patient with viewpoints that differ from theirs, and we'll probably be accused of being religious zealots trying to "spread the good news" or whatever. Would be nice if we could have logical, meaningful discussions outside of our thread. A possibility is starting a new thread like "A question for pro-control people" like I've seen others do, but those are always bait for trolls...

[Jadebaby]

Arian Dynas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Could it add to the Indoctrination Theory that the specific point you are standing when talking to the Catalyst is upside down?

Effectively you are standing under the Citadel Tower. This could be symbollic that things are backwards... Not what they seem maybe?

Let's just check in anything for the theory!

While that checks in, why don't you check out?

https://encrypted-tb...zoVeVyjWufb39Ah


@ SubAstris, It's not as far fetched as some other things that have been written, you'd admit that.

starbuck8 wrote...

Like a mirror universe or a weird dream. Highly speculative, but interesting. Side note: Have you ever looked in the mirror in a dream? Really creepy, at least in my dreams

The thing that kind of triggers it for me is that it'd look so much cooler if the Crucible docked into the Citadel frontways, touching at the top of the Citadel tower.  Eg: near the control panel where you fight Saren in ME1.

How's this SubAstris, in IDT the crucible docks under the Citadel tower representing an illusion (there's no gravity there). Then when EC drops, the Crucible will dock at the top of the Citadel tower. Where it makes sense.

[Stigweird85]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

bigstig wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Here is something for you to ponder:
Starchild states that the the created will always rebel against the creators:
The Repears may attempt to CREATE a new Reaper in each cycle(as evident from the Proto-Repear in ME2)

Discuss:

Could a Reaper civil war be possible?  Or does this lend itself to the idea that Harbringer is Reaper 001 and actual controls the rest of the Reaper species either via indoctrination or his "assuming direct control" method.  In which case would it mean if you take down Harbringer then you free the remaining Reapers from his control?

Just thought I'd throw this one out there, no doubt it has been mentioned before but if it has been then I haven't seen it and I'm still proud to have come up with it.

I'm leaning more towards no... because, while they are still "individual " they are still connected, and thus there ideas are connected and conflicting ideas would almost never happen, (I recently read the book "redemption ark" which speaks of future humans possibly getting implants and becoming a kind of consensus.... also has  a story similar too mass effect...I  recommend it )

Of course there may still be disagreements like how not all geth agreed to averythimg in me3, but like geth i dont think ther would go to war with each other.

Again I add this: Individuality does not automatically mean independence. We are all individuals but we are all part of a state/country which may or may not be part of an even greater structure i.e. I live in Scotland, Scotland is part of the United Kingdom, The United Kingdom is part of Europe and so on. Someone at the EU makes a decision and that filters down to me. I am still an individual but I am connected to something else.

BTW the consensus idea not that far fetched, we have actually real world evidence of it occuring. For example it was reported that some Sheep in a farm had beaten the cattle grate by lying down and rolling over it, nothing too special in itself but elsewhere another group of Sheep were doing exactly the same thing Link1, Link 2. Also there is anecdotal evidence of Birds discovering how to open Milk bottles at the same time as well

Back on topic if we treat the Reaper ID like Legion, Legion became an individual in the end but he started as a group of Geth each with their own mind and they did differ. Which is why he required Shepard to make the final decision about the heretics in Mass Effect 2. 

Legion is important here, as over the course of conversation with him in ME2 and ME3 you can conceptualize how the Reapers function - especially if you add in information provided to you by Sovereign in ME1

I went into this a while back, but I've got some insight to add on the internal control.

Geth: We are all Geth... there is no difference between them save for the task oriented portion of the software... Their 'specialization' if you will. Geth, as a whole, make up a single entity. They are several programs, but not independent... like all the cells in our body. The cells do not have self awareness, but all of them combined together to give us as a whole, self awareness, among other useful things.

The Geth are a gestalt intellect, but interdependent. A fractured mind because when not together, they suffer not only the loss of intelligence, but the loss of self awareness... they are a VI and thus not alive or fully self-aware on their own.

The Reapers: We are a nation, independent and free of all weakness.

Nazar are the programs inside Sovereign. Each of these programs is a fully evolved AI - perhaps more; like the added singular intellect of each individual Reaped to make Sovereign. These programs are independent. However, this is where it gets tricky.

The programs may be alive and fully independent, but they are not FREE.

Legion regarding Reaper 'code' upgrades: 'We would be alive, but with free will.

When hooked up to the Reapers, the Geth are fully evolved AI, independent, but WITHOUT free will. The Reaper signal seems to act as some sort of software shackle. Legion had upgrade code... meaning he was 1,182 fully evolved AI's in one platform... The only way to keep him in check was to take away his ability to control his hardware... hardware blocks... as that many AI could not possibly be controlled through software. It would be far too intelligent for that.

Edit: The Reapers also take away sapien hardware (body), making controlling non-indoctrinated minds much easier.

So what's to say that the population inside a Reaper isn't also shackled by the Reaper TECH; controlled by the pure hardware; the Reaper portion of the AI itself to prevent free independent thought from individual programs; it may seem like a catch 22, but that's the puzzle we are trying to work out... why wouldn't the Reaper itself eventually free it's own programs; other than maybe it's governed by a hard core anti-chaos programming logic.

So this shackling would also prevents emotions from developing. It's not indoctrination, but simply control. The only way to control an organic civilization so it will do your bidding in a collective manner? Could it be the 'Reapers' tried to get organics to work together at one time as free independents to solve a problem 'like dark energy' but found them to chaotic, so came up with a way to remove chaos from the equation? Form an organic Giganto computer without emotions so pure problem solving could be done without infighting, sidetracking, or distractions... Just verbalizing thoughts there... I still think their purpose is more mundane than that.

Legion: Even before his independent personality started to come out, the 1,182 programs inside him worked closely together, but with free will and, as a whole, they began to develop an emotional attachment to an organic they had never met... Symbolized in wearing Shepard's armor and not being able to explain why.

So what would happen if we were to unshackle the billions of AI inside a Reaper?

I've argued the point that the Reapers are made up of the collective intellect of the species they are born from and got shot down. 

Also, reminding you about that species of aliens downloaded into that ship, one of the prevailing theories is that that ship was a Reaper.

It makes logical sense that whatever species is harvested in the creation of a Reaper has more presence other than being fuel for the Reaper.  They talk about preserving the species, it's hardly preservation if the completely disintergrate all that made the species.

The idea of a shackled conscious inside of the Reaper is interesting, I may have missed  when you mentioned it before.

[Arian Dynas]

bigstig wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

bigstig wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Here is something for you to ponder:
Starchild states that the the created will always rebel against the creators:
The Repears may attempt to CREATE a new Reaper in each cycle(as evident from the Proto-Repear in ME2)

Discuss:

Could a Reaper civil war be possible?  Or does this lend itself to the idea that Harbringer is Reaper 001 and actual controls the rest of the Reaper species either via indoctrination or his "assuming direct control" method.  In which case would it mean if you take down Harbringer then you free the remaining Reapers from his control?

Just thought I'd throw this one out there, no doubt it has been mentioned before but if it has been then I haven't seen it and I'm still proud to have come up with it.

I'm leaning more towards no... because, while they are still "individual " they are still connected, and thus there ideas are connected and conflicting ideas would almost never happen, (I recently read the book "redemption ark" which speaks of future humans possibly getting implants and becoming a kind of consensus.... also has  a story similar too mass effect...I  recommend it )

Of course there may still be disagreements like how not all geth agreed to averythimg in me3, but like geth i dont think ther would go to war with each other.

Again I add this: Individuality does not automatically mean independence. We are all individuals but we are all part of a state/country which may or may not be part of an even greater structure i.e. I live in Scotland, Scotland is part of the United Kingdom, The United Kingdom is part of Europe and so on. Someone at the EU makes a decision and that filters down to me. I am still an individual but I am connected to something else.

BTW the consensus idea not that far fetched, we have actually real world evidence of it occuring. For example it was reported that some Sheep in a farm had beaten the cattle grate by lying down and rolling over it, nothing too special in itself but elsewhere another group of Sheep were doing exactly the same thing Link1, Link 2. Also there is anecdotal evidence of Birds discovering how to open Milk bottles at the same time as well

Back on topic if we treat the Reaper ID like Legion, Legion became an individual in the end but he started as a group of Geth each with their own mind and they did differ. Which is why he required Shepard to make the final decision about the heretics in Mass Effect 2. 

Legion is important here, as over the course of conversation with him in ME2 and ME3 you can conceptualize how the Reapers function - especially if you add in information provided to you by Sovereign in ME1

I went into this a while back, but I've got some insight to add on the internal control.

Geth: We are all Geth... there is no difference between them save for the task oriented portion of the software... Their 'specialization' if you will. Geth, as a whole, make up a single entity. They are several programs, but not independent... like all the cells in our body. The cells do not have self awareness, but all of them combined together to give us as a whole, self awareness, among other useful things.

The Geth are a gestalt intellect, but interdependent. A fractured mind because when not together, they suffer not only the loss of intelligence, but the loss of self awareness... they are a VI and thus not alive or fully self-aware on their own.

The Reapers: We are a nation, independent and free of all weakness.

Nazar are the programs inside Sovereign. Each of these programs is a fully evolved AI - perhaps more; like the added singular intellect of each individual Reaped to make Sovereign. These programs are independent. However, this is where it gets tricky.

The programs may be alive and fully independent, but they are not FREE.

Legion regarding Reaper 'code' upgrades: 'We would be alive, but with free will.

When hooked up to the Reapers, the Geth are fully evolved AI, independent, but WITHOUT free will. The Reaper signal seems to act as some sort of software shackle. Legion had upgrade code... meaning he was 1,182 fully evolved AI's in one platform... The only way to keep him in check was to take away his ability to control his hardware... hardware blocks... as that many AI could not possibly be controlled through software. It would be far too intelligent for that.

Edit: The Reapers also take away sapien hardware (body), making controlling non-indoctrinated minds much easier.

So what's to say that the population inside a Reaper isn't also shackled by the Reaper TECH; controlled by the pure hardware; the Reaper portion of the AI itself to prevent free independent thought from individual programs; it may seem like a catch 22, but that's the puzzle we are trying to work out... why wouldn't the Reaper itself eventually free it's own programs; other than maybe it's governed by a hard core anti-chaos programming logic.

So this shackling would also prevents emotions from developing. It's not indoctrination, but simply control. The only way to control an organic civilization so it will do your bidding in a collective manner? Could it be the 'Reapers' tried to get organics to work together at one time as free independents to solve a problem 'like dark energy' but found them to chaotic, so came up with a way to remove chaos from the equation? Form an organic Giganto computer without emotions so pure problem solving could be done without infighting, sidetracking, or distractions... Just verbalizing thoughts there... I still think their purpose is more mundane than that.

Legion: Even before his independent personality started to come out, the 1,182 programs inside him worked closely together, but with free will and, as a whole, they began to develop an emotional attachment to an organic they had never met... Symbolized in wearing Shepard's armor and not being able to explain why.

So what would happen if we were to unshackle the billions of AI inside a Reaper?

I've argued the point that the Reapers are made up of the collective intellect of the species they are born from and got shot down. 

Also, reminding you about that species of aliens downloaded into that ship, one of the prevailing theories is that that ship was a Reaper.

It makes logical sense that whatever species is harvested in the creation of a Reaper has more presence other than being fuel for the Reaper.  They talk about preserving the species, it's hardly preservation if the completely disintergrate all that made the species.

The idea of a shackled conscious inside of the Reaper is interesting, I may have missed  when you mentioned it before.

Just back up because I thought I had a nosebleed people, not staying long.

And you likely have not missed it, since it is the Reaper theory you can conveniently find sitting in my signature.

[Jadebaby]

Starbuck8 wrote...

I guess you just have to be very careful about how you word it. Even if you're really diplomatic or thoughful about it though, people outside this thread don't seem to be very patient with viewpoints that differ from theirs, and we'll probably be accused of being religious zealots trying to "spread the good news" or whatever. Would be nice if we could have logical, meaningful discussions outside of our thread. A possibility is starting a new thread like "A question for pro-control people" like I've seen others do, but those are always bait for trolls...

When you're walking through a dark tunnel with a light, you're bound to run into a cave-troll or two. It's about getting passed them to find the answers you're looking for.

If they believe in it so much to wear it in their sigs, you think they could justify their viewpoints on it.

[Starbuck8]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

I guess you just have to be very careful about how you word it. Even if you're really diplomatic or thoughful about it though, people outside this thread don't seem to be very patient with viewpoints that differ from theirs, and we'll probably be accused of being religious zealots trying to "spread the good news" or whatever. Would be nice if we could have logical, meaningful discussions outside of our thread. A possibility is starting a new thread like "A question for pro-control people" like I've seen others do, but those are always bait for trolls...

When you're walking through a dark tunnel with a light, you're bound to run into a cave-troll or two. It's about getting passed them to find the answers you're looking for.

If they believe in it so much to wear it in their sigs, you think they could justify their viewpoints on it.

so true. I feel like we generally do a good job at doing that when others come in here and try to question or "disprove" our theory. But seems like arguing with them is like arguing with a brick wall sometimes. Guess you've gotta have a lot of patience, and hope you find someone who's willing to discuss the matter intellectually. Hey, they exist!

[Stigweird85]

TJBartlemus wrote...

You know how people were complaining about how EA i too focused on making money, like making possibilities for future ME games and first day DLC? Well this guy is either a genius or a nut. Hope it doesn't give EA an idea to make the EC availible to one person for a huge amount of money. (An you know whats sad? Is that someone would actually buy it.)

http://www.cinemable...-DLC-43383.html

He's a nut, Peter Moyneux is a dreamer with big ambitions.  He has over promised and under delivered for too long.

The concept is interesting I will grant you that but I have long since stopped paying attention to him.

[Jadebaby]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Oh by the way, before I depart for sleep, figured I would drop a link to offically the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life.

http://christwire.or...-sex-maneuvers/

Have fun.

I read the first paragraph and almost choked on my food. Omg hates you so much for thisssss. Lol!

Edit: read the first sentence of the second paragraph and now I cannot stop laughing. I now love you for this hahahahaha

I wonder if they're the ones that made a ridiculous article on Pokemon a long time ago that I know people took seriously. Sometihng about teaching kids to poison each other. Anyway, we should really try and get back on topic. My face hurts.

lol that was good. I feel content now.