55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Big G13]

Dwailing wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Really, Big? THAT'S what you took from that?

You know I always read all your stuff. I'm just too to tired to respond to your thoughts with the energy they deserve. I agree with MaximizedAction and would only add that imo IDT is the only thing that makes sense of the endings and Indoctrinating the player is the only thing that makes sense of this PR fiasco we've seen in RL.
p.s.  CANIPREDIFEXATOR ........... still funny.

Wow, you are tired, you forgot the Carni part of Carnipredifexator. On the topic of my idea, I understand completely.

CRAP!! I fixed it. Yeah,wierd night at work. Found out that I got the transfer I wanted but the down side is I only have 10 days to move 1700 miles. So my body is exhausted and my brain won't stop, or focus.:sick:

[MaximizedAction]

And another 4th wall fell:



www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 09 juin 2012 - 02:45 .

[Salient Archer]

bigstig wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Man, I can't seem to get a game of MP tonight without someone asking me about my thoughts on the end of the game. Has something stirred up the hornets nest that I'm unaware of?

Also seems a fair few plays quite strongly disagree with ITD (for no apparent reason) and suddenly act like I'm wearing a tight-fitting tinfoil hat when I inform them I'm pro-ITD. Nonetheless I assert my authority by taking top position by about 80,000+ points. *gloat-gloat-gloat*

Speaking as someone on the lower end of the leaderboard.

If you doing that on Gold then good job, on Bronze and to a lesser extent silver is a different story. Personally I loathe it when I see someone on Bronze/silver who has enough equipment and stat skills to beat an entire round themselves. 

I know exactly the people you're talking about, they either John Rambo the whole round or feel a need to talk at the other players opposed to actual communicating with them That's why I mostly stick with gold, most seem to play it for the teamwork (at least I do) but tonight I just seem to be stuck with guys who want to rip on IT.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 09 juin 2012 - 02:47 .

[Turbo_J]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

snip

Edit: Wow, I think I actually made a wall of text.  Wasn't sure I'd ever make one of those.  Glad I was wrong.

An interesting idea, if the citadel in an illusion  and everything represents something what does Shepard represent...I've never really thought of it. I've always assumed Shepard is Shepard but your explaination is possible

Also, the dreams give credence to this. In the last dream, Shepard sees Shepard. So, in the hallucination are we seeing Shepard or are we seeing ourselves?

Yeah, that part I can't recall reading an interpretation about. I don't think it's us the players, because we are never really that convinced about the sadness of this loss and as some users wrote, BioWare probably knows that that kid's death isn't really THAT tragic to us.
Besides, this is the third dream. Either we felt for the boy only for the first hours or we moved on. That's getting over loss works.

So I don't think the oddly smiling Shepard is the player.

EDIT: Maybe it's the foreshadowing of Synthesis?

I found it foreshadowing not to trust the boy... and if you did, you burn.

I never trusted the emotion Shep showed regarding him, or specifically a single life. (S)he (or at least my Shep) would not dishonor the dead by reducing them down to a single representative... and if that were to happen even on a subconscious level, it would be the Virmire loss and possibly anyone who died in ME2.

From a players perspective and my experience with ME I found it out of character and knew bad things were going to happen very quickly. That scene put me on edge for the rest of the game and I think that wariness saved the galaxy.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

And another 4th wall fell:



www.youtube.com/watch

What do you mean?

EDIT: This. http://dictionary.re...wse/fourth wall

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 02:52 .

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

And another 4th wall fell:



www.youtube.com/watch

What do you mean?

Check the link. This shot of fakeShep looking into the cam happens for a split second, then he closes his eyes. Then, when they open their eyes again, both of them are looking at realShep standing to the cam's right hand side.
FakeShep's eyes DO move to the right after he opens his eyes again. I don't think the eye movement engine can cause an accidental look at the camera, also, the eye movement randomizer makes the eyes move way faster.
So for that short moment fakeShep's eyes seem to target the cam.

Or maybe I'm wrong and that is a 'bug'.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 09 juin 2012 - 02:56 .

[Overload_C14]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

And another 4th wall fell:



www.youtube.com/watch

What do you mean?

EDIT: This. http://dictionary.re...wse/fourth wall

the kid is looking at the player, not at Shep, Its creeping me out a little o.0

[Stigweird85]

Turbo_J wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I always found that last dream odd...the boy represents those who cannot be saved(or something like that) and in the final dream a Shepard embrases the emobodiment of those who can't be saved before burning up?

Yup that means nothing no symbology there at all.

Not sure if you being sarcastic, but if you are, yeah it's hard to fathom that people can't decipher the warning in that dream.

Yeah it was sarcasm. I keep forgetting that it's hard to convey when written down, perhaps I should use sarcasm tags or something

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

And another 4th wall fell:



www.youtube.com/watch

What do you mean?

Check the link. This shot of fakeShep looking into the cam happens for a split second, then he closes his eyes. Then, when they open their eyes again, both of them are looking at realShep standing to the cam's right hand side.
FakeShep's eyes DO move to the right after he opens his eyes again. I don't think the eye movement engine can cause an accidental look at the camera, also, the eye movement randomizer makes the eyes move way faster.
So for that short moment fakeShep's eyes seem to target the cam.

Or maybe I'm wrong and that is a 'bug'.

Dunno, for me they are just looking at the real Shepard on the video.

EDIT: Or maybe not... Shepard seems to look directly into the camera from time to time.

EDIT2: And the boy too!

EDIT3: LOL, this is freakin' creepy!

EDIT4: I'm not sure about Shepard but the child looks squarely into the camera.

EDIT5: Sorry for the multiple edits to anyone who read my post.

EDIT6: Another final edit in case the last 5 were not enough.

EDIT7: OK, this really might have been just a trick on the player's eyes. The angle formed by Shepard, the boy's eyes and the camera is small enough so that the player's eyes can perceive the scene ambigously.

EDIT8: There won't be any more edits for this post.  You can move on now. 

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 03:34 .

[Stigweird85]

D.Sharrah wrote...

OK crazy theory incoming...don't say that you weren't warned.
I have been reading through some of the post over the alst couple of days and something slowly has been formulating in my head.  This theory ties the events of ME 2, TIM, the Collector's, Harbinger and of course Shepard into one tight, convulted knot.  Also, this theory makes some assumptions based on the lore - so let's start with those.
Assumptions

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

At this point, let's go ahead and get into the theory.  At the start of ME 2 we see the Collector's destroy the Normandy and "kill" Shepard.  This was their first act of defieance against their creator, Harbinger.  Because he did not want Shepard "killed" but he wanted Sheaprd captured.  Harbinger knew that the day when the Collector's would rebel and try to destroy him was coming - but he had planned for this.  He was going to use these current tools to subtely put the machinations into work to bring him his next tools, the humans.  He would do this on two fronts, the creation of a human Reaper (which he needed the Collector's to collect the resources) and a singular consciousness that would "become" this Reaper.  That consciousness would be Shepard - the symbol of everything that humanity strived to be.  But the definace that the Collector's showed in "killing" Shepard rather than capturing Shepard - forced Harbinger to turn to plan B.

Knowing that the Collector's could no longer be trusted.  Harbinger started to influence TIM, started to influence him to save Shepard and bring him back.  It was only if he was brought back that he could become an ultimate Reaper agent.  The events of ME 2, starting with the Lazarus Project, was a Reaper design to create their next tool.  Harbinger would deftly move these two seperate forces slowly on his galactic chess board towards a confrontation.  A confrontation that regardless of its winner would lead his next greatest tool right into his tentacles.  Harbinger would "grant" TIM just enough insight to see the "patterns" of the Collector's plans slowly drawing him (and therefore Shepard) to the Collector base.  If Shepard failed to destroy the Collectors, he would be captured and prepared for upload to the human Reaper.  If he succeeded, then he would gain the clout to gather all of the opposition to a later trap.

It was a perfect plan.  A plan that would end with the Indoctrination of what the galaxy had come to know as its saviour.  How could he fail?


That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

I never though about it that way, but you are right if you follow the  logic through:

Collectors were created
Husks were created
Marauders were created
Brutes were created
Cannibals were created
Banshees were created.

That is going to be one hell of a rebellion that Harbinger is going to have to deal with

[Stigweird85]

MaximizedAction wrote...

And another 4th wall fell:



www.youtube.com/watch

WTF F?

Something like that deserves two profanities  Must be a glitch

Modifié par bigstig, 09 juin 2012 - 03:17 .

[Big G13]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

And another 4th wall fell:



www.youtube.com/watch

What do you mean?

EDIT: This. http://dictionary.re...wse/fourth wall

Thanks for linking that. For some reason I have never heard of that before. I understand the idea (Ferris Bueller) but never gave it any thought outside of comedy. I think it gives more weight to Dwailing's idea. I made the comment 3 months ago that Bioware is playing their own version of eXistenZ. ME3 is the gooie intestine that connects to the brain and we are all characters in an alternate reality game. Not a great analogy but it's all I got right now.

[D.Sharrah]

Creepy eyes be damned!  I don't want this to get lost in the thread...please let me know if I am completely off my rocker...or only slightly off my rocker! 

D.Sharrah wrote...

OK crazy theory incoming...don't say that you weren't warned.
I have been reading through some of the posts over the last couple of days and something slowly has been formulating in my head.  This theory ties the events of ME 2, TIM, the Collector's, Harbinger and of course Shepard into one tight, convulted knot.  Also, this theory makes some assumptions based on the lore - so let's start with those.
Assumptions

1.  TIM having been hit by a wave from a Reaper device, has been slowly succumbing to the affects of Indoctrination.  And while his mind is still his own, it is not w/o Reaper influence (even in ME 2).

2.  Harbinger is very likely to be ReaperBieber the Starbinger.  And therefore is aware of the circular logic that is "The created will always rebel against their creators".

3.  Harbinger being the leader of the Reapers, "created" the Collector's.  Following the previously mentioned circular logic, Harbinger knew it was only a matter of time before the Collector's rebelled.  Harbinger knowing that he would lose these "tools" turned his focus to the next set...

At this point, let's go ahead and get into the theory.  At the start of ME 2 we see the Collector's destroy the Normandy and "kill" Shepard.  This was their first act of defieance against their creator, Harbinger.  Because he did not want Shepard "killed" but he wanted Sheaprd captured.  Harbinger knew that the day when the Collector's would rebel and try to destroy him was coming - but he had planned for this.  He was going to use these current tools to subtely put the machinations into work to bring him his next tools, the humans.  He would do this on two fronts, the creation of a human Reaper (which he needed the Collector's to collect the resources) and a singular consciousness that would "become" this Reaper.  That consciousness would be Shepard - the symbol of everything that humanity strived to be.  But the definace that the Collector's showed in "killing" Shepard rather than capturing Shepard - forced Harbinger to turn to plan B.

Knowing that the Collector's could no longer be trusted.  Harbinger started to influence TIM, started to influence him to save Shepard and bring him back.  It was only if he was brought back that he could become an ultimate Reaper agent.  The events of ME 2, starting with the Lazarus Project, was a Reaper design to create their next tool.  Harbinger would deftly move these two seperate forces slowly on his galactic chess board towards a confrontation.  A confrontation that regardless of its winner would lead his next greatest tool right into his tentacles.  Harbinger would "grant" TIM just enough insight to see the "patterns" of the Collector's plans slowly drawing him (and therefore Shepard) to the Collector base.  If Shepard failed to destroy the Collectors, he would be captured and prepared for upload to the human Reaper.  If he succeeded, then he would gain the clout to gather all of the opposition to a later trap.

It was a perfect plan.  A plan that would end with the Indoctrination of what the galaxy had come to know as its saviour.  How could he fail?


That's the general outline...there are more ideas rumbling around in my head...but what do you guys/gals think? 

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 09 juin 2012 - 03:25 .

[D.Sharrah]

bigstig wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

snip...

 

I never though about it that way, but you are right if you follow the  logic through:

Collectors were created
Husks were created
Marauders were created
Brutes were created
Cannibals were created
Banshees were created.

That is going to be one hell of a rebellion that Harbinger is going to have to deal with

The difference being that Harbinger had to leave some resemblance of sentience in the Collector's or otherwise he wouldn't be able to "Assume Direct Control"...otherwise what is stopping him (or other Reapers for that matter) from doing so at any point in the trilogy with these other "creations".  Also...it gives another reason for the cycle - the "new blood" in the galaxy is used to put down the "previous" cycle's potential rebellion.

[MaximizedAction]

Big G13 wrote...

paxxton wrote...
snip

EDIT: This. http://dictionary.re...wse/fourth wall

Thanks for linking that. For some reason I have never heard of that before. I understand the idea (Ferris Bueller) but never gave it any thought outside of comedy. I think it gives more weight to Dwailing's idea. I made the comment 3 months ago that Bioware is playing their own version of eXistenZ. ME3 is the gooie intestine that connects to the brain and we are all characters in an alternate reality game. Not a great analogy but it's all I got right now.

Some sitcoms use that now and then.
Recent example is Two and a half men: Jon Cryer does a dramatic chipmunk into the camera.
classic example is Fresh Prince: Will does that multiple times.
More on topic example: Fight Club has Brad Pitt and Edward Norton doing that. Edward Norton's character even explains the principle of cutting film rolls together to the audience.
In ME3: we assume that Admiral Anderson looks into the cam (aka the player) when he says "No, they're controlling you!".

So in cinema and tv it's a common tool, since it originated theater. In video games...not so common. Hence, though being a very powerful technique, in video games the audience doesn't know what to do with it, yet.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 09 juin 2012 - 03:56 .

[DJBare]

Dwailing wrote...

 So now, I'm going to share the REALLY crazy idea.  What if, Casey Hudson was being quite literal about the player being Shep?  Meaning, what if the Shepard that we control in the end sequence is LITERALLY a representation of the player.  We have Shepard's willpower litterally in our hands, and it's up to us what we do with it.

I don't think it's a crazy idea in the least, one of the goals stated by Bioware was to get the player feeling the things Shepard feels, you can only do this if you focus on the player rather  than the character, and it appears to me that's exactly what they have done, just take a look at the feedback, it's all very personal for the most part.

[Stigweird85]

Salient Archer wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Man, I can't seem to get a game of MP tonight without someone asking me about my thoughts on the end of the game. Has something stirred up the hornets nest that I'm unaware of?

Also seems a fair few plays quite strongly disagree with ITD (for no apparent reason) and suddenly act like I'm wearing a tight-fitting tinfoil hat when I inform them I'm pro-ITD. Nonetheless I assert my authority by taking top position by about 80,000+ points. *gloat-gloat-gloat*

Speaking as someone on the lower end of the leaderboard.

If you doing that on Gold then good job, on Bronze and to a lesser extent silver is a different story. Personally I loathe it when I see someone on Bronze/silver who has enough equipment and stat skills to beat an entire round themselves. 

I know exactly the people you're talking about, they either John Rambo the whole round or feel a need to talk at the other players opposed to actual communicating with them That's why I mostly stick with gold, most seem to play it for the teamwork (at least I do) but tonight I just seem to be stuck with guys who want to rip on IT.

I have tried Gold a few times(failed everytime) I just don't have the skills to be of any use and don't want to bring the team down myself. I have Rambo'd both Silver and Bronze but it usally only lasts a wave or two before the rest of the team catch up. I always want to slap the players who are like 4-5times ahead of the rest of the team(unless the rest of the team are really useless of course)

[MaximizedAction]

bigstig wrote...

I have tried Gold a few times(failed everytime) I just don't have the skills to be of any use and don't want to bring the team down myself. I have Rambo'd both Silver and Bronze but it usally only lasts a wave or two before the rest of the team catch up. I always want to slap the players who are like 4-5times ahead of the rest of the team(unless the rest of the team are really useless of course)

I felt like that about teammates with Reegars.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 09 juin 2012 - 03:48 .

[Big G13]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

paxxton wrote...
snip

EDIT: This. http://dictionary.re...wse/fourth wall

Thanks for linking that. For some reason I have never heard of that before. I understand the idea (Ferris Bueller) but never gave it any thought outside of comedy. I think it gives more weight to Dwailing's idea. I made the comment 3 months ago that Bioware is playing their own version of eXistenZ. ME3 is the gooie intestine that connects to the brain and we are all characters in an alternate reality game. Not a great analogy but it's all I got right now.

Some sitcoms use that now and then.
Recent example is Two and a half men: Jon Cryer does a dramatic chipmunk into the camera.
classic example is Fresh Prince: Will does that multiple times.
More on topic example: Fight Club has Brad Pitt and Edward Norton doing that. Edward Norton's character even explains the principle of cutting film rolls together to the audience.
In ME3: we assume that Admiral Anderson looks into the cam (aka the player) when he says "No, they're controlling you!".

So in cinema and tv it's a common tool, since it originated theater. In video games...not so common. Hence, though a very powerful technique but in video games the audience doesn't know what to do with it, yet.

YET. Dun dun duuuuuunnn. Seriously though, if Hudson and Co. are breaking down that fourth wall then the future of gaming may get interesting.

[Stigweird85]

D.Sharrah wrote...

bigstig wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

snip...

 

I never though about it that way, but you are right if you follow the  logic through:

Collectors were created
Husks were created
Marauders were created
Brutes were created
Cannibals were created
Banshees were created.

That is going to be one hell of a rebellion that Harbinger is going to have to deal with

The difference being that Harbinger had to leave some resemblance of sentience in the Collector's or otherwise he wouldn't be able to "Assume Direct Control"...otherwise what is stopping him (or other Reapers for that matter) from doing so at any point in the trilogy with these other "creations".  Also...it gives another reason for the cycle - the "new blood" in the galaxy is used to put down the "previous" cycle's potential rebellion.

It makes sense, if you view all non Reaper species as a tool to be used and then disposed off when they are no longer useful.

--Edit for grammer. Usefullnesss is used, what was I thinking

Modifié par bigstig, 09 juin 2012 - 04:31 .

[ivenoidea]

Big G13 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

paxxton wrote...
snip

EDIT: This. http://dictionary.re...wse/fourth wall

Thanks for linking that. For some reason I have never heard of that before. I understand the idea (Ferris Bueller) but never gave it any thought outside of comedy. I think it gives more weight to Dwailing's idea. I made the comment 3 months ago that Bioware is playing their own version of eXistenZ. ME3 is the gooie intestine that connects to the brain and we are all characters in an alternate reality game. Not a great analogy but it's all I got right now.

Some sitcoms use that now and then.
Recent example is Two and a half men: Jon Cryer does a dramatic chipmunk into the camera.
classic example is Fresh Prince: Will does that multiple times.
More on topic example: Fight Club has Brad Pitt and Edward Norton doing that. Edward Norton's character even explains the principle of cutting film rolls together to the audience.
In ME3: we assume that Admiral Anderson looks into the cam (aka the player) when he says "No, they're controlling you!".

So in cinema and tv it's a common tool, since it originated theater. In video games...not so common. Hence, though a very powerful technique but in video games the audience doesn't know what to do with it, yet.

YET. Dun dun duuuuuunnn. Seriously though, if Hudson and Co. are breaking down that fourth wall then the future of gaming may get interesting.

VERY interesting indeed. I actually only know one other game that does this. Secret Files, a point-and-click adventure. The female lead has several remarks that break the fourth wall, such as "The lead designer did not allow us to put in timed puzzles." And stuff like that. At one point she speaks about being in a game too

Edit: And of course Monkey Island. I'm a ****ing retard.

Modifié par ivenoidea, 09 juin 2012 - 04:12 .

[paxxton]

Big G13 wrote...

Dun dun duuuuuunnn. Seriously though, if Hudson and Co. are breaking down that fourth wall then the future of gaming may get interesting.

Desmond Miles seeing ghosts, anyone?

Modifié par paxxton, 09 juin 2012 - 04:06 .

[Dwailing]

Big G13 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

paxxton wrote...
snip

EDIT: This. http://dictionary.re...wse/fourth wall

Thanks for linking that. For some reason I have never heard of that before. I understand the idea (Ferris Bueller) but never gave it any thought outside of comedy. I think it gives more weight to Dwailing's idea. I made the comment 3 months ago that Bioware is playing their own version of eXistenZ. ME3 is the gooie intestine that connects to the brain and we are all characters in an alternate reality game. Not a great analogy but it's all I got right now.

Some sitcoms use that now and then.
Recent example is Two and a half men: Jon Cryer does a dramatic chipmunk into the camera.
classic example is Fresh Prince: Will does that multiple times.
More on topic example: Fight Club has Brad Pitt and Edward Norton doing that. Edward Norton's character even explains the principle of cutting film rolls together to the audience.
In ME3: we assume that Admiral Anderson looks into the cam (aka the player) when he says "No, they're controlling you!".

So in cinema and tv it's a common tool, since it originated theater. In video games...not so common. Hence, though a very powerful technique but in video games the audience doesn't know what to do with it, yet.

YET. Dun dun duuuuuunnn. Seriously though, if Hudson and Co. are breaking down that fourth wall then the future of gaming may get interesting.

Ah, reminds me of the old Monkey Island games.  Good times, good times. 

Edit: Also, remember the All-Knowing Vortigaunt from Half-Life 2?  He leaned on the fourth wall a few times.  Or so I've heard.  I really need to find him in game.

Modifié par Dwailing, 09 juin 2012 - 04:13 .

[Stigweird85]

MaximizedAction wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I have tried Gold a few times(failed everytime) I just don't have the skills to be of any use and don't want to bring the team down myself. I have Rambo'd both Silver and Bronze but it usally only lasts a wave or two before the rest of the team catch up. I always want to slap the players who are like 4-5times ahead of the rest of the team(unless the rest of the team are really useless of course)

I felt like that about teammates with Reegars.

I have seen that gun a lot, can't say I have it yet though. There is another sniper rifle(geth I think) that basically acts as a cannon simply shoot near the target and it does damage(it's my favourite sniper rifle mainly because I suck)

[Dwailing]

bigstig wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I have tried Gold a few times(failed everytime) I just don't have the skills to be of any use and don't want to bring the team down myself. I have Rambo'd both Silver and Bronze but it usally only lasts a wave or two before the rest of the team catch up. I always want to slap the players who are like 4-5times ahead of the rest of the team(unless the rest of the team are really useless of course)

I felt like that about teammates with Reegars.

I have seen that gun a lot, can't say I have it yet though. There is another sniper rifle(geth I think) that basically acts as a cannon simply shoot near the target and it does damage(it's my favourite sniper rifle mainly because I suck)

Are you thinking about the Turian Krysae sniper rifle?  I really want that.